When does a signature reduce the value of a book?

[bestpaperboy]

I sold a book a couple of weeks ago. It was a hard cover copy with dust jacket of Oceans of Wisdom: Guidelines for Living by the Dali Lama. 

http://ebay.to/2nzBN7E

The book had a forward by Richard Gere and was signed by the photographer who did photos for the book. The signature was on the front free end paper and was part of an inscription or dedication: "To Barbara may his Holiness' words inspire you Marcia Keegan July 08"

I said the book was signed by the photographer and included a picture of the autograph but gave no further detail in the description concerning this characteristic. I described the book as "Like New" as it was literally in brand new condition.

The buyer after a couple of weeks expressed his dismay because he said there was writing in the book and therefore it could not be like new (I was just reading another post about Ex Lib books and could they be like new).

The buyer and I have agreed to disagree and he claims it was his mistake as he just saw the "like new" description and didn't really look at the picture (duh) until I pointed it out to him after the fact. 

Can this book justificably be graded "like new" or does the dedication make that impossible? Where I am now I can see both sides and can't be sure who is more right.

Michael 

[taylor_memorial]

In similar situations, I have offered to accept a customer paid return with a restocking fee and shipping the customer paid retained by me.

The question you are asking is really not germaine to the issue of customer service--his opinion on the value of the book is as valid as yours. But he accepted your opinion, your description and pictures.

His remorse (or having read the book, simple greed) is moot.
eBay may decide to reimburse his entire payment or may not, but they will stand behind your service decisions if you go the route described above. They have done it for me. with a $$$ book in honestly poor condition that was both rare and desirable. So has Amazon.

As to your question--it is not a previous owner's signature. It probably does not add a great deal of value to the book unless the photographer has a fan club and is sought after--but it certainly does not devalue the book and it is not "writing".

[melda58]

Since the photographer inscribed the book rather fully to a presumably non-famous person, I would not have described it as "like new."  Buyers don't really like books dedicated to unknown regular folks, unless the inscriber is particularly well-known.  However, just a plain signature by an author or illustrator,  with no personal dedication,would not stop me  from using "like new." 

[lludwig]

Your buyer should have been delighted to have a book signed by Marcia Keegan. Did you research who she was and inform him? Many people do collect works by photographers and having a signed copy would add value in this case imo.

Renowned Santa Fe photographer Keegan dies at 78

Obit from Santa Fe New Mexican, September 23, 2016

Marcia Keegan, a Santa Fe writer and photographer who was recognized nationally for her photos of Native American communities and Tibetan culture, died Thursday of cancer, her husband said. She was 78.

She published more than 20 books, including a collection of poetry, cookbooks and children’s books. Her most recent book is a photography collection titled From the Roof of the World to the Land of Enchantment: Tibetans and Native Americans, which will be published in November by Clear Light Publishers, a company she and her husband founded in 1988.

Source and rest of obit: https://tinyurl.com/kruys8t

MARCIA KEEGAN, 78, of Santa Fe passed away September 22nd, 2016. She is survived by her husband Harmon Houghton. Marcia Keegan's legacy is best chronicled in her photography, books and lifetime of dedication to chronicling the beauty of the world that surrounds us and the wisdom of the elders of the Tibetan and Native American way of life. Compassion was her religion. Respect for all beings, animals, plants, minerals, and spirits was her canvas and photography was her paintbrush. You can view some her work at www.marciakeegan.com. Marcia has started a foundation to grant young and emerging authors, artists, photographers and media creators financial support in expressing their creativity of indigenous ways of life www.knowingfoundation.org -

Source: https://tinyurl.com/kqpfpt3

[lludwig]

Also, when the book has more than a signature of the author, photographer, illustrator, it is called an inscription. "Inscribed and signed by the author" is the way I usually word it. There are some collectors who prefer a book that has an inscription in addition to the author even when the person to whom it is inscribed is not well known or only has the first name of the person. The reason is that it has  more handwriting of the author/photographer.

[eleeper-half]

I think the whole question of no signature vs. signature vs. inscription to unknown person is very hard to generalize.  Not very helpful, I know, but as long as you have full disclosure in your description (e.g., my listing on half.com for 0441808395), the buyer won't get any surprises.

[bestpaperboy]

lludwig - Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. No it did not occur to me to learn about the photographer. I will use this information when I re-list the book - I had already decided to change my description and state that the book was signed and inscribed by. Don't know that I will ever run into this circumstance again, or anything like it, but if I do I will be better prepared
Thanks again, Michael

[jeanpaulbooks]

I would be concerned about the photo appearing to show shelf wear on each corner.   Is it just the photo or is there actually shelf wear?  If it's the former, I would take a new photo; if it's the later, I wouldn't use "like new."

[figtree3]

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@bestpaperboy wrote:
lludwig - Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. No it did not occur to me to learn about the photographer. I will use this information when I re-list the book - I had already decided to change my description and state that the book was signed and inscribed by. Don't know that I will ever run into this circumstance again, or anything like it, but if I do I will be better prepared
Thanks again, Michael

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I hope this worked out well for you.

[taylor_memorial]

If you seek books for resale long enough, you will run into this again.

Someone said something like this to me years ago, and I have found it to be true.

[cumos55]

When does a signature reduce the value of a book?

When it is cutaway ...  leaving an empty spot on a page

When it is scribbled-out or blacked out.

When it cannot be authenticated

and then... It looks like a real signature... but is a printed version... the same in all of the books published...

[imagine.ink]

Another dilemma ... when a signature may not even be a real signature, but a ghost-written signature (you can't make this stuff up):

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Booksellers/Inscription-Mystery-Infinity-and-beyond/m-p/25840498#M83885

[cumos55]

A Mechanical signature.

There is now a way for someone to sit in one city... and sign a book in a second city.

The actions of  the person doing the signing are replicated  through a mechanical process in the second city.

When someone signs a signature in person, the signature will vary because the pressure of the pen on the paper will vary....  and  each signature will be unique  in both shape  and intensity of the pen on the paper.. 

The mechanical process will reproduce the "shape"  or appearance of a signature,  but the intensity of the writing on the paper will be uniform throughout the process.

If one wants to see how a signature can vary,  all one has to sign one's own signature... twenty times .... on a sheet of paper... Each signature is unique

[evry1nositswindy]

Go over to half.ebay.com and read their guidelines for grading a book.  Any writing at all, including a signature or inscription, warrants no higher than a very good rating.

[imagine.ink]

Here is an interesting ethical/moral bookselling situation.  Sometimes, I tend to be a little judgmental, so I would like other sellers' opinions on this.   

I came across this listing on eBay:

Here's a good one for you.  A few years ago I acquired this book from a local auction house and as I was going thru it I saw the John Wilkes Booth autograph inside.  I have been asking people and researching it ever since.  The book is an original, and I believe, first edition copy of " Learning to Act " published by Presbyterian Board of Publication in Philadelphia.  193 pages, hard cover, 6" X 4", pages are good and spine is fairly tight.  Inside before the title page is the inscription, " To July Schulyer with deepest affection John Wilkes Booth Dec 25 1861.  WOW was I surprised!!  A Civil War dated J W Booth inscription in period ink ( see photos ).  Inside back cover of book as a pencil ID " July Schuyler - her book 1862 ".  I have sent the book to people to look at, I have compared signatures on line, I have sent photos of the inscription to people, and over the years I have not been able to get a definite yes it is John Wilkes Booth or no its not John Wilkes Booth.  I am selling this book with the inscription as a NO ITS NOT A REAL BOOTH SIGNATURE, if it turns out it is good for you but I think it is just a very old non J W Booth signature.  Thanks for understanding and good luck.

Now, keep in mind that I know who this seller is; he ran an antiques business for 20-30 years.   In my opinion, the way this book is presented is a bit unethical.   In my opinion, when he writes,  "... over the years I have not been able to get a definite yes it is John Wilkes Booth or no its not John Wilkes Booth," he doesn't mention that, due to his line of business, he undoubtedly knew the right people to send it to.   He didn't just show it around to neighbors and friends.  It seems to me that if he didn't get a definite "yes" from anyone, then for all practical purposes it's a "no." 

Also, the book "How To Act" is a Sunday school book, not a treatise on acting, which further evidences that this inscription was a "joke," even in period ink dated 1861. 

So, what do other booksellers think?  Is this presentation ethical or not?   The buyer, who ran neck and neck with another bidder and paid $535 for a speculative dream,  seems rather inexperienced with less than 300 feedbacks.

I don't like seeing people getting hoodwinked, but then again, I tend to be a bit judgmental, so maybe I'm being too harsh in my assessment. 

However, several years ago, I had a similar situation in that I found a 1912 book with a hidden Theodore Roosevelt inscription.  The moment I sent a scan to a reputable auction house and was told it wasn't genuine, I didn't even think of selling it on eBay, but traded it to a used bookstore for pennies on the dollar (as a book only, not for the bogus inscription). 

I'm presenting this situation as a booksellers' learning exercise; what do other booksellers think of  this?    Feel free to disagree with me.