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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer

 
I have recently been victimized by a seller from India who uses various shills on his clothing/wedding handbag auctions. He usually starts them out at .99, hooks a REAL buyer, then in comes the "shill" (always the same one(s) to bid the item UP/PAST the true bid, and just before the auction ENDS, the seller CANCELS the shill bid and invoices the highest bidder. You can see that the shill accounts have 100% bid activity with him when you click on their "hidden" ids/feedback. I reported him, began opening cases on him to get refunded, then he posted a FAKE TRACKING number so I would have to wait until AFTER the FAKE DELIVERY DATE (30 + additional days) to open the rest.

 

It was terrible. When I notified ebay about it, all they did was tell me to wait til after the delivery date, then open a case...duh.. They did shut down some of the auctions I reported, but, guess what? HE IS STILL SELLING. He has a plethora of negatives from other buyers who are all saying the EXACT SAME THING I SAID. Oh, and another thing: Whenever he gets a NEGATIVE from a REAL BUYER, voila, he uses the shill accounts to give himself as many SHILL POSITIVES to help bring his rating right back up. At least I was able to get the account he used against me shut down, but he is still going strong...

 
 
"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@deniece200909 wrote:
 
I have recently been victimized by a seller from India who uses various shills on his clothing/wedding handbag auctions. He usually starts them out at .99, hooks a REAL buyer, then in comes the "shill" (always the same one(s) to bid the item UP/PAST the true bid, and just before the auction ENDS, the seller CANCELS the shill bid and invoices the highest bidder. You can see that the shill accounts have 100% bid activity with him when you click on their "hidden" ids/feedback. I reported him, began opening cases on him to get refunded, then he posted a FAKE TRACKING number so I would have to wait until AFTER the FAKE DELIVERY DATE (30 + additional days) to open the rest.

 

It was terrible. When I notified ebay about it, all they did was tell me to wait til after the delivery date, then open a case...duh.. They did shut down some of the auctions I reported, but, guess what? HE IS STILL SELLING. He has a plethora of negatives from other buyers who are all saying the EXACT SAME THING I SAID. Oh, and another thing: Whenever he gets a NEGATIVE from a REAL BUYER, voila, he uses the shill accounts to give himself as many SHILL POSITIVES to help bring his rating right back up. At least I was able to get the account he used against me shut down, but he is still going strong...

 
 

deniece200909,

 

From what I am able to see off of your screens of the Bid History pages of these two auctions, I have no doubt whatsoever that these are examples of shilled auctions. However, what you have stated in your original post needs clarification. The shilling seller didn’t just cancel the high bidder’s bid, the shilling seller used the same shill bidding ID to place another shill bid just BELOW the legitimate bidder’s high bid, thereby manipulating the legitimate bidder’s bid to its full amount. Compare the time stamps of the LAST bid placed by the shill bidding ID with the time stamp of the bid cancellation by the seller of the earlier “high bid” by the shill bidding ID.

 

I want you to go and look again at the Bid History page to the auction in which you won back on May 5, 2018.

 

If you look down at the Bid retraction and cancellation history, take note of the time that the shill bidder, s***m (10,) placed their first bid of $9.50. From what I am able to see, it appears to be 29 Apr 2018 at 1:15:29 PM PDT.

 

You were the last bidder to enter bids in this auction and you placed a series of bids on May 5 ranging from $4.50 at 8:42:23 AM PDT to $7.00 at 8:42:35 AM PDT on May 5 and at that moment in time, you were NOT the high bidder; the shill bidder s***m (10) was the high bidder with the bid price displayed on the auction page of $7.50 calculated as your $7.00 bid plus one bid increment of 50¢ at that price level. In other words, you were bidding against the shill bidder’s $9.50 shill bid that acted as the seller’s artificial reserve and you were outbid each time you placed a bid against the shill bidder’s $9.50 shill bid.

 

Once the shilling seller cancelled the shill bidder s***m (10)’s $9.50 “high bid”, the bid price FELL DOWN to $4.25 which is one 25¢ bid increment above bidder i***i (350) who bid $4.00 on 28 Apr 2018 at 8:05:56 PM PDT and you, deniece200909, became the high bidder at $4.25 as at May 5, 2018 at 12:13:30 PM PDT.

 

Since the shilling seller knew that you were NOT the high bidder at $7.00, they knew the full amount of your automatic bid being $7.00.

 

So, the shilling seller cancelled the shill bidder’s “high bid” of $9.50, the bid price fell down to $4.25, and THEN the shill bidder placed a shill bid of $6.90 on 5 May 2018 at 12:13:38 PM PDT just below your $7.00 bid thus manipulating your bid to the full amount of $7.00. The shill bidder s***m (10) placed their SECOND shill bid only 8 seconds after their earlier $9.50 shill bid was cancelled by the shilling seller.

 

This is an example of what I call blatant shill bidding. It is blatant shill bidding since it is ONLY the seller and eBay, via Administrative Cancellation, that may cancel a bidder’s bid. A reputable eBay seller who cancels a bidder’s bid, normally would also place that bidder’s user ID on the seller’s Blocked Bidder List. A shilling seller, on the other hand, will not place their shill bidding ID(s) on their Blocked Bidder List because they want the shill bidding ID(s) to place future shill bids to manipulate the legitimate bidders’ bids.

 

 

With the second Bid History page, the shill bidding pattern is slightly different. This time, bidder g***b (3243) was the FIRST bidder to this auction with a $2.00 bid placed on 6 Jul at 2:05:06 PM PDT. The shill bidder, b***1 (4), placed a shill bid of $7.90 on 10 Jul 2018 at 1:54:26 PM PDT thereby outbidding g***b (3243)’s #2.00 bid and at the point during the auction, the bid price displayed would have been $2.25 calculated as g***b (3243)’s $2.00 bid plus one 25¢ bid increment at that price level.

 

Bidder g***b (3243) placed three more bids on Jul 11 ranging from $4.00 at 1:23:53 PM PDT to $5.01 at 1:24:07 PM PDT and was outbid by the shill bidder b***1 (4) at this point during the auction and the bid price displayed would have been $5.51.

 

The shilling seller cancelled b***1 (4)’s “high” shill bid of $7.90 that acted as an artificial reserve, and the bid price fell down to 99¢ since immediately after the shilling seller cancelled b***1 (4)’s $7.90 shill bid, there were NO competing bids in effect to challenge g***b (3243)’s bids.

 

Because the shilling seller knew that bidder g***b (3243) was NOT the high bidder when the bid price was $5.51, the shilling seller used the shill bidding ID, b***1 (4), to place a shill bid of $5.00 on 11 Jul at 1:59:56 PM PDT just below g***b (3243)’s $5.01 bid. Again, the shilling seller cancelled the shill bidder’s “high” bid, the bid price fell down, and then moments later, the shill bidder b***1 (4) placed another shill bid just below the legitimate bidder’s bid.

 

Again, this is another example of blatant shill bidding.

 

The best way to avoid being shilled is simply don’t do business with disreputable sellers since sniping can’t prevent your bid from being shilled EVEN if you were to execute a 0-second snipe bid. If your legitimate (snipe or proxy or automatic) bid interacts with a shill bidder’s bid, then your bid will be shilled since timing does NOT matter AT ALL.

Godzilla_Goose

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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer

Dishonest people always seem to find a way to get over on others, and the system. All we can do is check sellers feedbacks before bidding and report those we suspect are bad sellers.

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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer

True, but reporting them does not help because ebay has been madeVERY aware of what is going on, and they are doing absolutely NOTHING,,,
"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@deniece200909 wrote:
True, but reporting them does not help because ebay has been madeVERY aware of what is going on, and they are doing absolutely NOTHING,,,

Well I guess he must have special priviledges/is being protected, because ebay's so-called "rules" certainly are not being applied to him....hmmph...

"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
Message 4 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer

The seller doesn’t invoice the highest bidder. Whoever is the highest bidder automatically wins. The seller can’t just invoice anyone.



One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**
Message 5 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer

The"highest bidder" is a SHILL, and the seller is "cancelling" that shill bid seconds BEFORE the auction ends, so technically he is controlling who gets invoiced. And NOTHING is being done about it, see?
"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@deniece200909 wrote:
The"highest bidder" is a SHILL, and the seller is "cancelling" that shill bid seconds BEFORE the auction ends, so technically he is controlling who gets invoiced. And NOTHING is being done about it, see?
 

 

"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
Message 7 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@deniece200909 wrote:

@deniece200909 wrote:
True, but reporting them does not help because ebay has been madeVERY aware of what is going on, and they are doing absolutely NOTHING,,,

Well I guess he must have special priviledges/is being protected, because ebay's so-called "rules" certainly are not being applied to him....hmmph...


 

Interesting that it's special rules for special folks.

Ask ebay how should one apply to become a member.

Message 8 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@ed8108 wrote:

@deniece200909 wrote:

@deniece200909 wrote:
True, but reporting them does not help because ebay has been madeVERY aware of what is going on, and they are doing absolutely NOTHING,,,

Well I guess he must have special priviledges/is being protected, because ebay's so-called "rules" certainly are not being applied to him....hmmph...


 

Interesting that it's special rules for special folks.

Ask ebay how should one apply to become a member.


.yeah, well .this is even MORE interesting (notice the date?) How 'bout asking ebay about this:

"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
Message 9 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@deniece200909 wrote:
Whenever he gets a NEGATIVE from a REAL BUYER, voila, he uses the shill accounts to give himself as many SHILL POSITIVES to help bring his rating right back up. At least I was able to get the account he used against me shut down, but he is still going strong..

In order to leave feedback for a seller, there has to be a transaction. How are the shill accounts leaving hin shill positives if there haven't been any transactions? It's not like it's a Yelp review, where you can leave a positive review for a restaurant you've never been to.

 

At least his feedback is public. That's one point in his favor. 

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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@pburn wrote:

@deniece200909 wrote:
Whenever he gets a NEGATIVE from a REAL BUYER, voila, he uses the shill accounts to give himself as many SHILL POSITIVES to help bring his rating right back up. At least I was able to get the account he used against me shut down, but he is still going strong..

In order to leave feedback for a seller, there has to be a transaction. How are the shill accounts leaving hin shill positives if there haven't been any transactions? It's not like it's a Yelp review, where you can leave a positive review for a restaurant you've never been to.

 

At least his feedback is public. That's one point in his favor. 


There are some (because the objective of shilling is NOT to win), but they are always the same accounts/have 1 -4 feedback that never changes/have 100% bid activity with ONLY this seller. He needs these for the fake "positives"...

 

FYI, Seller's cannot have private feedback, so that's no point at all, lol...thank you:))

 

 

"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
Message 11 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@deniece200909 wrote:

@pburn wrote:

@deniece200909 wrote:
Whenever he gets a NEGATIVE from a REAL BUYER, voila, he uses the shill accounts to give himself as many SHILL POSITIVES to help bring his rating right back up. At least I was able to get the account he used against me shut down, but he is still going strong..

In order to leave feedback for a seller, there has to be a transaction. How are the shill accounts leaving hin shill positives if there haven't been any transactions? It's not like it's a Yelp review, where you can leave a positive review for a restaurant you've never been to.

 

At least his feedback is public. That's one point in his favor. 


There are some (because the objective of shilling is NOT to win), but they are always the same accounts/have 1 -4 feedback that never changes/have 100% bid activity with ONLY this seller. He needs these for the fake "positives"...

 

FYI, Seller's cannot have private feedback, so that's no point at all, lol...thank you:))

 

 


3***j ( 1 ) and b***1 ( 4 ) are two of his multiple shill accounts that he uses to inflate auctions/give himself fake positives.

The first pic is showing how he is continuing to shill/cancel/invoice using 2 shills against the real buyer. That buyer just left him a negative for doing so. Check it out for yourself, and you will also see all of the fake positives left using the two aforementioned shill accounts. It's so easy to spot, it's laughable, lol.

The second shows the feedback that's been left

 

The second pic shows how

"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer

@deniece200909,

 

It is apparent that you did not check the seller's feedback profile before bidding on the item. Had you done that you might have avoided the issue.   Unfortunately, many of the Asian sellers engage in the same activity and get away it because ebay isn't allowed to track IP addresses in some countries.  

 

Instead of bidding early in auctions, bid at the very end, when the seller/shill will not have time to react, and cancel/retract their bid.  If you cannot be on your device at the end of an auction. Think about using a bidding / sniping service to bid for you in the last seconds.  Better yet avoid bidding on .99cent start price auctions originating in Asia.  Besides running up prices, if you win at a very low price, those sellers will cancel the transaction. 

"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FOOLPROOF, BECAUSE FOOLS ARE SO DARNED INGENIOUS!" (unknown)
Message 13 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer

No, I did not check it first, and that was a lesson well learned. I had never done business with an India Seller before, and did not expect to encounter any problems. I was wrong. I'm a seasoned Buyer, and I generally have a pretty good success rate with the majority of my international sellers, but this guy was/is a "Nope". He shills on ALL of his auctions, ebay is aware, so he needs to be SHUT DOWN.

Thanks for leaving an intelligent/informative comment, have a great day!:)
"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
Message 14 of 73
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Seller Uses Shills to Run Up bids, Cancels before Auction Ends, Invoices Highest Buyer


@deniece200909 wrote:
No, I did not check it first, and that was a lesson well learned. I had never done business with an India Seller before, and did not expect to encounter any problems. I was wrong. I'm a seasoned Buyer, and I generally have a pretty good success rate with the majority of my international sellers, but this guy was/is a "Nope". He shills on ALL of his auctions, ebay is aware, so he needs to be SHUT DOWN.

Thanks for leaving an intelligent/informative comment, have a great day!:)

This Shill Seller's up-to-date shill selling STILL continues unabashed, smh...:

"I mean what I say, and I say what I mean..."
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