and I didn't even know that there was a brand called steinhart before this wonderful discussion; poor me, I'll have to go and find out if they're sold in supermarkets here, because I've never seen one in a serious watchmaker's shop...
It often amazes me how people like you can be offended by a retort to what essentially is an ignorant response from you. You had no intention to discuss anything from an intelligent POV. Rather your reply was a knee jerk wise crack devoid of any real thought. And now you are offended for getting one back? What did you expect? I'm supposed to slink away? Yours is a bully mentality. I am sure you don't or refuse to understand this so go stand with the rest of the ostriches amigo. And do try to really THINK! You may get a headache at first but its worth the effort.
I normally don't discuss with such cheap people as you are one. and I don't have to apologize for my upbringing with visits since childhood's time in the manufactures of the vallée de joux, neuchatel and la-chaux-de-fond (place of origin of the Corvette brothers, too).
Gregory: opinion noted but as usual we don't see eye to eye. I think you should mind your own business please. This is between myself and the other party. Anyway I don't expect you to see things my way regardless of any content.
Swiss watches...overpriced? To some, yes. To others, no.
Value is relative. True worth or value is determined only by the purchaser. A premium price will ALWAYS' be paid by someone who wants an item for it's worth as a collectible, or for it's exclusiveness. To argue this point, is moot.
High end watches are like pieces of art. They keep no better time than the cheapest Timex.
My wife collects Louis Vuitton. Her $1800.00 Speedy 30 would be highly regarded as NOT being worth this price by most. However, this is the price one pays for an item that is hand made, and exclusive. My wife (and others)are willing to pay over it's relative "Value" for such an item.
Can you imagine paying $100,000 for a collectible stamp? To me, it's just a small square of paper with some "sticky stuff" on it's back. But to others, this may have "Great value".
I guess Webster said it the best: "Value- appreciate the importance of". Not everyone will have the same "appreciation" for an item.
Counterfeit items suck...... almost as much as the people who sell them!
Ah, but it's not just between you two, jacketwatch & fidbald, because you've launched these potshots in a public forum. Like so many others, I come to this Board for information about watches, clocks & timepieces -- which the trading of belittling comments, and insistence on having the "last word" that only you two care about, does nothing to advance. So, I too am hoping that the end of this year marks the end of such hooey.
OK. Lecture heard and understood. The last thing I do in any relationship is to initiate disrespect and I am afraid that when it happens to me I often fire back. I just hate to see someone get away with that. That is me. I hope we can have differences of opinion here w/o being disagreeable, acting superior and respecting the others POV no matter how divergent it is from ones own. As for the rest I defer to the last two posters. When I'm wrong I say so. Please accept my apology.
What make these boards unique, are the diverse opinions that are offered. Both Greg & Jacketwatch offer valid opinions, even though the differ from each other.
I would be difficult to explain to a wine connoisseur, why a $20 port from Napa Valley tastes just as good a very expensive imported one.
I looked at Steinhart web site. They have a real good potential to reach a market that wants a good swiss watch, at a good price. HOWEVER, to do have to agree on what Greg had to say about them copying other better known brands. I like seeing originality. Nothing Steinhart has, are original. In fact (my opinion), they come real close to copy right infringement with other designs. They are to close in copying Rolex, IWC, and Bell & Ross. Look at the examples below. Take notice of the IWC "Triangle" at 12 o'clock with two small dots on either side. Then look at the Steinhart. This alone would keep me from a company that would do this.
Counterfeit items suck...... almost as much as the people who sell them!
Your point is well made. No arguement. I think that for most every product that succeeds there will be sure to be "homages" to follow including watches and there is a market for them. I have the "Pepsi" Steinhart you have shown and what impresses me is the feel, fit, finish, quality of material (316L SS, sapphire crystal, etc.) and its accuracy, well w/i COSC parameters. It was 3 sec. fast for 36 hrs. the last time I checked so its more than just a look alike IMHO. As you can see from the web site they do have a good number of positive reviews. I think it goes back to the definition of appreciation as you provided.
As for replicas I agree with you. I see no point at all.
"Homage" is an incorrect characterization. Wikipedia defines Homage as such:
"Homage is generally used in modern English to mean any public show of respect to someone to whom one feels indebted. In this sense, a reference within a creative work to someone who greatly influenced the artist would be an homage."
Steinhart gives no reference to famous designs that they blatently copy, nor do I think that Rolex, IWC and other manufacturers would find these knockoffs to be a "public show of respect". Shameful, but as it's been made clear in this thread, there are buyers who will support this behavior with their purchasing dollars and it will continue.
It doesn't necessarily have to be an expensive watch, but make mine an original. There are a lot of great watches out there (new and vintage) for under $500 that aren't imitators.
Gregory: In many watch circles, none that you probably aware of this term is used in reference to a copy of a popular design. Other references besides Wikpedia define the term in such a fashion w/o a tie to reciprocal indebtedness including Websters:
2 a : expression of high regard : RESPECT -- often used with pay b : something that shows respect or attests to the worth or influence of another.
As you can see in this reference there is no contingency on indebtedness from the subject so admired or revered. There is more than one view Gregory.
I think the shame here has to do with inflexibilty of ones viewpoint. We all know how you feel Gregory. Its been stated more than once. As for the respect issue imitation is the sincerest form of flattery Gregory and I can't see how you are in any position to say whay Rolex, IWC, etc. feel about this matter. Your doubting it doesn't make it true.
Bravo to GeeBee 711 for trying to understand both POV's.
Gregory no offense intended but I think you have trouble tolerating a POV so different from your own and respond judgemenatally. Just an observation. After all we are talking about taste in watches. Its not life and death.
Best regards. Larry.
2007 marks the dawn of a new era for the Steinhart Watch Company as they unveil their new line of affordable luxury cars. Their first offering, the Steinhart Stingray, has Steinhart watch owners salivating. Built around the inexpensive but reliable chasis and powerplant of the Kia Rio and sold only over the internet, the car will offer buyers a popular and proven design at a very affordable price.
The ultra-discriminating Steinhart collectors who've driven the car say it performs and handles "just like the real thing". One driver was heard to say "why pay thousands more for unnecessary product design and R&D costs when another company has already done all the hard work?".
Chevrolet spokepeople couldn't be reached for comment, but one Steinhart enthusiast speculates that they won't care because the car is a polite "Homage" to their current-production Corvette.
Rumored to be in the works for 2008 - the Steinhart Carerra and the Steinhart Escalade.
Happy New Year!
(P.S. this parody meets the fair use exception of U.S. Copyright law)