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Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

gggmwggg
Enthusiast

I bought an item from a seller in Hong Kong for $6 and $1.50 shipping.  The item was broken so the seller told me to return for refund.


The shipping weight is 5 ounces. To ship from the US to Hong Kong with the cheapest USPS service that has delivery confirmation (priority international) it will cost $34.87.  To ship 1st class without tracking it will cost $11.48.


How in the world did the china seller pay for the product, pay ebay and paypal fees, pay for packing material and ship to me WITH TRACKING for 1/4 of the cost it would cost me just in shipping costs alone to send the item back?

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169 REPLIES

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 1:05:46 AM
brewcity_bob
Trailblazer

The Chinese government foots the bill so that their country can easily export items to other countries.

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Message 2 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 1:16:24 AM
gopetersen
Rockstar

There are three reasons:


 


1. There is a difference in economies. You have to earn five times as much here to get by financially.


2. The Chinese government subsidizes shipping.


3. eBay and USPS brokered a trilateral ePacket agreement with China Post that gives China bulk shipping rates (which apply to individual packages as well) at a rate far below what we have to pay and which INCLUDES tracking to the U.S. destination and which does NOT require China to offer reciprocal tracking.


 


ePacket is quite fast and extremely economical and enables Chinese sellers selling small items to retain their TRS status


 


Domestic shippers sending small items by First Class Letter or Flat do not get similar tracking and thus cannot be TRS without charging USPS shipping rates that are 10 times what Chinese sellers pay. In other words, we can't compete pricewise.

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Message 3 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 1:18:37 AM
gopetersen
Rockstar

eBay's CE0 was quoted in one of the business magazines as saying it was important for the Chinese sellers to have tracking.


 


I can't remember which magazine and don't know how long it would take to hunt up the quote, but I'm pretty sure it was around the time ePacket was established.

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Message 4 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 1:28:27 AM
star-watcher-mlp
Thrill-Seeker


Domestic shippers sending small items by First Class Letter or Flat do not get similar tracking and thus cannot be TRS without charging USPS shipping rates that are 10 times what Chinese sellers pay. In other words, we can't compete pricewise.



 


Doesn't the tracking requirement for TRS only apply to domestic shipments?  Then again, even if it does apply to internationals as well, that Customs number seems to suffice for the tracking requirement.  Even though it rarely ever shows anything once the package leaves the U.S., that number still gets auto uploaded as a tracking number when you print your postage.  So apparently, that is good enough at least for keeping TRS status.

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Message 5 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 2:52:17 AM
gopetersen
Rockstar

Yes, tracking applies to domestic shipments, but they gave China tracking (for international shipments) and we DON'T get tracking for domestic shipments (and there are tens of thousands of us that ship by First Class Letter and First Class Flat).


 


 


If they can track Chinese packets for which they receive a nickel a packet (for small ones, which are the majority) and yet we pay from $.46 to $3.00 for FCL and FCF and don't get tracking what does that say about their priorities?


 


USPS has never said that ePacket is a revenue builder. It was instituted to "stimulate commerce" (American consumption of Chinese products, particularly on eBay, since eBay was a party in the agreement) and it was listed in their brief in the marketing section, not the revenue section.


 


 


They gave Chinese sellers tracking the US but they don't give Americans tracking in the US AND we don't get reciprocal tracking in China either for our small, lightweight shipments.


 


It's all uni-directional.


 

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Message 6 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 4:28:37 AM
briarrose92596
Trailblazer

In short, we pay for it. Period. Our rates increase every single year.


 


When I first started selling on eBay a 1# Priority Mail package was $3.10 shipped anywhere in the United States, that was 2001.


 


It has went up dramatically over the years. We are paying for the cheap junk to come into our country, which has put billions of dollars into the Chinese economy, and wiped out many small businesses in the US, because they just cannot compete.


 


It is sad really. We pay high postage costs so Chinese sellers can ship junk for free and the only way to get a refund when your low cost item arrives broken is by sending it back....but you have to pay the real rates!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 


I must say that it is simply an economic disaster for US Sellers. We don't protect our own...too much greed.


 


Why is the US Postal Service in bad shape financially? How many millions do they lose just because of the Chinese reduced shipping price?????


 


Last time I checked "free shipping" wasn't actually free.

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Message 7 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 4:58:26 AM
cobbie10
Trailblazer

For that amount I would not bother returning it. Negative feedback. Then BUY AMERICAN !! 

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Message 8 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 5:23:15 AM
gggmwggg
Enthusiast


For that amount I would not bother returning it.


Yeah, I figured that out my own.


This topic was intended to be more about the huge advantage China has over the US. China can ship items to the US for --in a lot of cases-- less than US sellers can ship the same items domestically,  and it cost us tons to ship to China or anywhere internationally.


It's huge money going into China, and little to nothing coming back.


It just doesn't seem right, and there doesn't seem to be anything being done about it.


 

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Message 9 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 8:38:28 PM
gggmwggg
Enthusiast


USPS has never said that ePacket is a revenue builder. It was instituted to "stimulate commerce" (American consumption of Chinese products, particularly on eBay, since eBay was a party in the agreement) and it was listed in their brief in the marketing section, not the revenue section.

It seems like it would be more of a transfer of revenue, from the US to China, than it would be a revenue builder for ebay or USPS?


If the demand for the product isn't changing, and the US sellers can no longer compete with China sellers, because China sellers can ship to the US with tracking, for less than the US sellers can ship to their own country (not to mention the lower upfront cost for the same product nod going to China too), then I can't see how it would benefit anyone, other the Chinese sellers and the China economy.


 

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Message 10 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 5, 2013 10:12:56 PM
ted_200
Rockstar


It seems like it would be more of a transfer of revenue, from the US to China, than it would be a revenue builder for ebay or USPS?


If the demand for the product isn't changing, and the US sellers can no longer compete with China sellers, because China sellers can ship to the US with tracking, for less than the US sellers can ship to their own country (not to mention the lower upfront cost for the same product nod going to China too), then I can't see how it would benefit anyone, other the Chinese sellers and the China economy.


 



 


It doesn't benefit anyone but the Chinese.


 


The ePacket deal (which was a 3-way deal involving USPS, eBay, and ChinaPost) allows Chinese to ship here, WITH TRACKING, for less than we can ship the same thing from Phoenix to Los Angeles.  I've posted on it extensively, you can use a search engine to find out more if you're interested.


 


On the rates we pay, that's part USPS stupidity, and part Congress (who despite claims USPS isn't government, still is telling USPS what they can do).  Congress is limiting how much USPS can raise domestic rates.  Thanks to a lot of bad business decisions by USPS (including delivering bulk rate ads at a loss for next to nothing, which allows them to maintain volume and NOT lay off excess employees or close excess facilities), and the union labor deals USPS has, USPS is WAY in debt.  They needed a massive rate hike to make ends meet.  With limits on domestic rate hikes, they put a lot of the hike on international shipping, making the international trade problem for U.S. sellers even worse. 

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Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 6, 2013 4:29:39 AM
gopetersen
Rockstar

"then I can't see how it would benefit anyone, other the Chinese sellers and the China economy."


 


On the surface, it doesn't make any sense to do something that undermines US sellers and seems to only benefit China. You need a few more pieces of information to understand it.


 



  1. Most of the time, these agreements are bilateral, between country and country. But this is trilateral, eBay had a hand in it.

  2. Before the agreement, Donoho- was making a lot of speeches about capturing the Chinese market. I can't remember the exact words, but I think he said something like whoever wins China wins the world. He started forging alliances with companies, opening up PayPal opportunities, and doing keynote speeches (in China). At least one business magazine said something about him trying to capture the Chinese domestic market. The problem with this is that China doesn't need America to handle its domestic market. They already have Taobao and AliExpress and are prefectly capable of running businesses for themselves. Somewhere in this general timeline, ePacket was signed. I don't think he gained as much as he hoped because after that, he turned his efforts to Europe and since has purchased Turkey's auction mart and one of Germany's payment systems.


 


 


There's more backstory to ePacket (e.g., other countries), but that's probably enough for one post.


 


You can look up archived articles regarding Donaho- and China (and also the original announcement for ePacket) from the 2010s and 2011s and get a better feel for the timeline than I can express in a forum post. When you write for brevity, you always lose some precision.


 


 


 

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Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 6, 2013 5:23:55 AM
gopetersen
Rockstar

"Whoever wins China will win the world." may actually have been a pre-Donaho- eBay statement. I can't find the exact origin of it.


 


 


More backstory.


 


Under Whitman, eBay garnered about half the domestic market in China...


 


...but China has very capable entrepreneurs, Alibaba (and TaoBao) were on the rise, and a third-party case study says that eBay didn't fully understand China's business model (I think the fact that most Chinese people would probably be more comfortable with a home-grown marketplace is probably at least as important—Chinese entrepreneurs can adapt to local events and tastes much faster than any American business).



To keep their presence in China despite rising domestic firms, in 2006, eBay partnered with Tom Online.


 


March 2008, Donaho- became CE0 and was concerned about losing market share to the growing Chinese marketplaces (in fact eBay recently announced they want closer relations with the other BRIC countries as well).


 


Donaho- changed the focus from winning the Chinese market to cooperating with the Chinese market.


 


During talks with Alibaba, he is reported to have said this:


 


"Today our focus in China is not to compete in the domestic market," said eBay's CEO John Donahoe, during a speech at the event in the Chinese city of Hangzhou. "What we're trying to do is connect you, the Chinese sellers, with consumers around the world."


 


So once, again, he is encouraging the Chinese export business. Events around this time include:



  • May 2010, eBay announced an agreement to link PayPal and China UnionPay

  • eBay and Alibaba signed a cooperative agreement.

  • Donaho- was invited to keynote in China (Hangzhou), September 2010.


 


And then we get the ePacket agreement:



  • April 20, 2011 USPS announced the ePacket trilateral agreement.


In their Hong Kong press release, USPS announced this to China (underscores mine):


 


"The U.S. Postal Service has initiated a new service with Hongkong Post that is structured to foster growth in e-commerce."


 


So, the announcement was clearly aimed at facilitating Hong Kong to U.S. shipments. This is confirmed by the following statement (underscores are mine):


 


“This agreement offers visibility previously unavailable in the small packet segment between Hongkong Post and the Postal Service,” said Paul Vogel, president and chief marketing/sales officer. “It shows the Postal Service has the flexibility to develop service options to meet market demand from businesses around the world. Further, it solidifies our role as a key supplier in global commerce.”


 


 

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Message 13 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 6, 2013 11:37:55 PM
gggmwggg
Enthusiast


"then I can't see how it would benefit anyone, other the Chinese sellers and the China economy."


 


On the surface, it doesn't make any sense to do something that undermines US sellers and seems to only benefit China. You need a few more pieces of information to understand it.


 



  1. Most of the time, these agreements are bilateral, between country and country. But this is trilateral, eBay had a hand in it.

  2. Before the agreement, Donoho- was making a lot of speeches about capturing the Chinese market. I can't remember the exact words, but I think he said something like whoever wins China wins the world. He started forging alliances with companies, opening up PayPal opportunities, and doing keynote speeches (in China). At least one business magazine said something about him trying to capture the Chinese domestic market. The problem with this is that China doesn't need America to handle its domestic market. They already have Taobao and AliExpress and are prefectly capable of running businesses for themselves. Somewhere in this general timeline, ePacket was signed. I don't think he gained as much as he hoped because after that, he turned his efforts to Europe and since has purchased Turkey's auction mart and one of Germany's payment systems.


 


 


There's more backstory to ePacket (e.g., other countries), but that's probably enough for one post.


 


You can look up archived articles regarding Donaho- and China (and also the original announcement for ePacket) from the 2010s and 2011s and get a better feel for the timeline than I can express in a forum post. When you write for brevity, you always lose some precision.


 


 


 


Did that answer my question?


 


Think of it this way...


2010 = the demand for carburetor jets sold online is 500,000 units per year, and the US online sellers got the bulk of those sells to the US, because of lower shipping cost.


Fast-forward to 2013 and the epackets...


The demand is still the same (approx 500k units per year), but now with China gets 90% of those sells, with them having the lower price, because of the subsidized shipping and currency advantages, how did ebay or USPS make more money?


They gained some China seller revenue on Carb jets, but lost the same amount from US sellers..... Not to mention the higher cost for USPS to ship for the epackets (surely shipping from SC to MI cost more to USPS than shipping from China to the US)... but they're charging less for the China to US.


And the lower fees received from ebay, because of the lower total costs that see fees.


It's a sellout regardless, but I just don't see how it's one with benefit to anyone, except China.

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Message 14 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 6, 2013 11:41:19 PM
gggmwggg
Enthusiast


(surely shipping from SC to MI cost more to USPS than shipping from China to the US)...


*Cost LESS

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Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 7, 2013 12:01:33 AM
gopetersen
Rockstar

ePacket brought a flood of Chinese sellers to eBay. eBay gets FVFs.


 


Whether it benefited eBay overall can definitely be questioned (and probably should be).


 


eBay likes to lure people by giving things away.


 


The eBay Now courier delivery services is basically giving it away since what they are charging doesn't even remotely cover costs. It doesn't even cover a third of employee expenses.


 


Free listings.


 


And that big push to give percs for joining PayPal and Bill Me Later.


 


 


So I sometimes wonder if giving China ePacket was intended as a lure in the same spirit.


 


As it is, Donaho- didn't win the Chinese domestic market. They don't need him for that but China is happy to take anything that supports their massive export market and ePacket fits the bill.

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Message 16 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 7, 2013 1:22:27 AM
ted_200
Rockstar

The demand is still the same (approx 500k units per year), but now with China gets 90% of those sells, with them having the lower price, because of the subsidized shipping and currency advantages, how did ebay or USPS make more money?


They gained some China seller revenue on Carb jets, but lost the same amount from US sellers..... Not to mention the higher cost for USPS to ship for the epackets (surely shipping from SC to MI cost more to USPS than shipping from China to the US)... but they're charging less for the China to US.


And the lower fees received from ebay, because of the lower total costs that see fees.


It's a sellout regardless, but I just don't see how it's one with benefit to anyone, except China.


 


Well, here's how the theories work in the heads of the people involved...


 


eBay understands what you just said, but they believe (and are likely correct) that the Chinese are going to end up with 90% of that market anyhow.  If shipping is an issue (and it was, both in terms of cost and tracking which eBay is in love with), the Chinese will ship Carb jets over here on container ships, to large parts sellers who don't sell on eBay.  eBay will maintain a larger slice of that market if they can keep direct sales from the Chinese  competitive.  eBay doesn't care about other American busineses, U.S. based sellers, or any U.S. - China trade imbalance problems, eBay cares about routing the maximum amount of the market through their site. 


 


The USPS has somewhat different motives.  They are seeing mail volume decrease, and are losing market share to the ever expanding package services of FedEx, UPS, and others.  Once the tub of ePacket parcels hits their sort center, they handle, scan, and deliver each parcel as a First Class Domestic package with tracking.  They are not getting paid anywhere near what they get paid by a domestic U.S. seller sending a domestic FC parcel within the U.S.   So relative to a FC parcel I send to Los Angeles from Phoenix, handling this Chinese mail is a big loser.  But they don't care.  They aren't really interested in stuff like "profit margins", their goal is to maintain the size of their empire.  Added volume means they don't have to fire anyone, and can keep facilities they don't otherwise need open.  This is the same reason they agree to deliver junk mail for next to nothing.  This is why they are running huge losses, and the intent is to cover those losses by raising prices for you and me and all other Americans to keep them getting large paychecks and to fund their fat pensions.


 


As for the Chinese government and China Post, this all helps the Chinese economy, and being a bunch of communists, government there operates as a one big unit in conjunction with Chinese businesses, all to benefit China.  There is none of this eBay screws American sellers to benefit eBay, the Post Office screws Americans in general to benefit the Post Office, etc., going on in China - the Chinese certainly are not going to agree to deliver U.S. goods to Chinese addresses with tracking for 75¢!


 


eBay looks out for eBay.  USPS looks out for USPS.  The U.S. government should be looking out for America, but they have screwed the pooch with some really bad trade policy and agreements involving China (who is loaning them large sums of money to fund their excess spending), they have their fingers involved in running the USPS and support the postal workers unions, and they are generally interested in punishing (instead of helping) American businesses these days anyhow.  The Chinese exploit this political/economic dysfunctionality at every turn. 

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Message 17 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 7, 2013 4:37:39 AM
gggmwggg
Enthusiast


the Chinese will ship Carb jets over here on container ships, to large parts sellers who don't sell on eBay.


I never considered the US was manufacturing anything, and if they were the cost would be too high to compete.


In my example, I assumed that the US sellers were getting what they sold on ebay, in large containers from china anyway.


But I guess if the price is lower all together, then ebay will get more sales from other venues and B&M stores... so that's the plus for ebay.


So now, because of the Chinese advantage in currency, cheap labor/manufacturing advantage, and now the retail distribution advantage to the US (via shipping advantage), the US is in a very bad way.


When did e-packets start for China sellers on ebay?

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Message 18 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 7, 2013 12:15:10 PM
gopetersen
Rockstar

"eBay doesn't care about other American busineses, U.S. based sellers, or any U.S. - China trade imbalance problems, eBay cares about routing the maximum amount of the market through their site. "


 


Right.

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Message 19 of 170

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

Re: Why is China to US shipping cost so much cheaper than US to China?

in reply to Jun 7, 2013 12:18:02 PM
gopetersen
Rockstar

The official USPS announcement (their press release in Hong Kong) was April 2011 and it seems to me, from memory, that it was implemented pretty quickly on eBay.


 


I don't know if there's an "official record" (a public one) on which day eBay sellers actually started using it.

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