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Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)
I know this topic has been discussed by various Categories and Forums over the years, but I think it belongs here on the Stamp Board. For the past couple of months I've noticed an increasing number of listings for US Forever Stamps that appear to be Counterfeits. It's not only occurring on eBay, but also on Amazon, Walmart, Etsy, and other sites devoted to discounts on stamps. Most of the suspicious sales have been sourced out of China but sales also are showing up from US sources.
Some Users, mainly from China and some from the US, show blatant disregard to the eBay Selling Policy and eBay certainly doesn't have Stamp Experts determining what is real or fake. Because no one at eBay appears to be monitoring suspect sales, I believe it is up to the Stamp Community to let them know what listings fall into the 'To Good to be True' category.
I've had conversations with eBay regarding suspect Counterfeit Sales to determine the best method to deal with suspicious listings. They told me that using the "Report Item" button on a listing will inform them that the item being sold should be investigated.
To Report an Item.
Press the 'Report Item' button above 'Item Specifics' on the listing in question.
File a Report Page Appears.
Report Category
I select 'Prohibited and restricted items'
Reason for Report
I select 'Stamps, currency, and coins'
Detailed Reason
I select 'Other currency and stamp concerns'
Brief Description
You can enter your suspicions here.
Submit
With that bit of knowledge I have been reviewing listings in the US Postage Category. It isn't hard to determine items that are suspected of being Counterfeit. I concentrated on US Forever Stamps Sales looking at the listing price or sales price versus face value. All the Flag stamps from primarily 2017 thru 2022, most of the Booklets from 2019 thru 2022, and a lot of Sheets from 2020-2022 are suspected of being Counterfeited . The old adage 'You'll Know it when you see it" applies. At first Buy it Now items selling at approximately half face value were no brainers. Then I had to decide how to determine if sellers using the Auction format got around the obvious hall price sale. That took a little more investigation. It helped to look at the seller's 'Sold Listings". If the amounts received from Auction sales still had huge discount repeatedly, then its suspicious. One-offs do occur where a seller just wants to dump stamps for whatever reason. That's why looking at not only the current listing but See Other Items listed for sale and Sold Listings are important to review
The Stamp Community has to step up and make an effort to stop Counterfeit Listings. If eBay receives multiple Report Item complaints they may actually act. You should be concerned if you are a Seller because your prices are being undermined. If you are a Buyer, your concern would be not knowing if what you bought was real.
In additional posts, I will let the Board know what I've discovered fighting this problem and hopefully persuade the Community to act.
kh-cathy
·2 years agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
bobdenneu
OP2 years agoEbay is now Using A.I. to Determine what Violates their Stamp Policy.
Recently eBay started providing acknowledgment to reports of suspicious listings and sales by sending messages saying.
"Thanks for reporting the content you found to be problematic on our site. We’re looking into it now. We’ll let you know once we’ve reviewed it and provide you with details of any decision that we make."
After a period of time, they would or would not inform via message if the item reported violated eBay Policy. At first their reviews said "We looked into the matter and decided ". Their decisions were basically yes or no with little explanation.
Then a subtle difference in their response
"We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy. This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence."
All the items in question were US Forever Stamps in Rolls and Booklets listed in Collectables & Art> Art> Other Art Category and mostly sold by China and Hong Kong. Coil Rolls of 100 Forever Stamps for the years 2017-2023 were selling for as little as $14. The majority of the Booklets were selling at an average price of $15 for 5 Booklets of 20 stamps each. Some Booklet names included Rudolph Reindeer, Gingerbread Houses, Winter Scenes, Jack o Lanterns, Frozen Treats, Snowy Beauty, Garden Flowers, and all Booklets from 2021-2023.
By using Non-Stamp Categories, Seller' s appear to be greenlighted and allowed to sell Suspected Counterfeit Forever Stamps with impunity. It shows that the fight against selling Counterfeit Stamps is ongoing, and eBay is not up to the task of curtailing it.
Any Comment?
malolo
·2 years agoThanks for your efforts and your latest report. Amazing how one sees the "garbage in garbage out" syndrome appear so quickly in AI used by a huge online corporation. Trust eBay to lead the way for stamp counterfeiters to sell their products , as you say, with impunity. The almighty dollar trumps reason and evidence. It could have been simpler for eBay to create a subcategory within the Stamps Categories for " art stamps".
Great work by you.
msgtdavid
·2 years agoInteresting subject!
bobdenneu
OP2 years agoIf eBay created "Art Stamps" within the Stamp Category the counterfeiters would Just use a different Category. The point of my post was that A.I. is only as good as the human programming it. Ebay has no one with even a modest understanding of Stamp Collecting.
bobdenneu
OP3 years agoExcerpt from Linn's Stamp News.
Counterfeiting of U.S. forever stamps increased exponentially in 2021 with most new issues being faked. Scott catalog editors have noted within the Postage section of the Scott Specialized Catalogue of United States Stamps and Covers what stamp issues are known to exist as counterfeits and have placed that information in footnotes.
Because of the large number of new counterfeit forever stamps (more than 300 major numbers in the last year), Scott editors have decided to only list denominated and earlier counterfeits in the 2023 Scott U.S. Specialized catalog.
No forever or postcard-rate counterfeits are included in the 2023 Scott U.S. Specialized catalog for the years 2007 to date.
The forever counterfeits are included in this new catalog of counterfeits.
If just denominated counterfeit issues were listed, the new catalog would only be 17 pages long. With the explosion of forever counterfeit issues, it is 97 pages. More counterfeits have already been reported as the catalog was heading to press in January.
I believe the future Stamp Collecting of Forever issues will be questionable due to the explosion of Counterfeits in 2021 and with no end in sight. The Postal Inspection Service appears to be Missing in Action with no visible means of curtailing blatant and obvious sales of Counterfeit Forever Stamps.
bobdenneu
OP3 years agoLinn's Stamp News referenced this from the US Federal Register.
Background
In recent years, the use of counterfeit postage has increased substantially, especially on packages. Use of counterfeit postage is a crime; it reflects an intentional effort to defraud the Postal Service; and it has resulted in a significant loss of revenue to the Postal Service. Typically, such mail does not have an accurate return address. The Postal Service proposes to amend current regulations to distinguish counterfeit postage from mail without any postage affixed and to address the use of counterfeit postage more effectively.
Mail deposited without any postage affixed is endorsed “Returned for Postage†and is returned to the sender without any attempt at delivery (DMM 604.8.2.1). Counterfeit postage differs from the absence of any postage, however, as the former is a criminal attempt to defraud the Postal Service, while the absence of any postage may reflect an inadvertent failure to affix postage. Also, mail with counterfeit postage often does not have an accurate return address, or it has a return address not related to the mailer. To address the problems posed by counterfeit mailings, the Postal Service is amending its regulations to provide public notice that mailings with counterfeit postage will be treated as abandoned; consequently, such mail may be opened and disposed of at the Postal Service's discretion.
Proposal
The Postal Service seeks to distinguish the handling of articles entered without postage under subsection 604.8.2 from those that contain counterfeit postage.
Therefore, the Postal Service is proposing to revise subsection 604.8.4 to provide that when all articles with counterfeit postage are found they will be considered abandoned and disposed of at the discretion of the Postal Service, rather than be returned to the sender as the affixing of counterfeit postage reflects a refusal to pay postage or an intentional effort to avoid paying postage.
The Postal Service is proposing to implement this change effective April 1, 2023.
We believe this proposed revision will provide customers with clarity on the handling of items bearing counterfeit postage.
It seems to me given the scope of US Forever Stamps being Counterfeited, that a lot of mail is going to be tossed in the trash once they figure out how to identify the illegal stamps. Nothing about going after the sources of Counterfeits.
bobdenneu
OP3 years agoFor those interested. The end of the year has brought on a rush of new Sellers and selling of US Forever Stamps. Here are a few stats since Christmas day:
158 Total Suspected Counterfeit Listings
142 Listings were for 2017-2022 Flag Coil Rolls
103 Listings had no Previous Feedback (Most were New Sellers)
20 Listings were from the Philippines
16 Listings were from the UK
3 Listings were from Hong Kong
Almost all of the items in Total Listings were selling/sold for at least 50% off face value. The UK Listings were primarily for 10 Rolls of Flags each time and between 5-10 Sets of 10 Rolls each listing. They totaled approximately 1,000 Rolls. The UK sales were priced at $189-$199 per 10 Rolls. The Philippines Sellers were also actively selling multi-100's of Rolls of stamps. Both the UK and Philippines had Ship From originations in the US which leads to the US being their Drop Point. Another factoid is that aside from major discounting, almost all the Listings provided free shipping. Most of those Sellers with no feedback were one and done. Sellers from the Philippines are an exception since they are allowed repeatedly to sell Rolls of Stamps using the same ID's. Almost all the UK Seller ID's are one and done, but it appears that all are from the same source. China sellers have mostly been absent in December, but they had a flurry of listings in November.
Ebay is catching on to the strategies but because of the steep discounting the Sellers sometimes sell out before eBay can end the listings. When eBay takes action, they sometimes remove a Seller without a trace. Nothing shows up with an advance search. Other times the item in question has a "Cannot be Found" message in Completed Listings, or the Seller's profile shows "No longer a registered user".