Why is ebay such a bad place to sell with buyers waiting to rip us off
Edit. Sorry guys i had not realised i was on the US site not the UK site .
Its becoming a rip off to try and sell privately on ebay
Ebay just want to encourage buyers to rip us off.
Buyer can basically maliciously damage an item and then claim against the seller.
Took him 6 hours from delivery to his open door to decide to wreck it and file a claim.
Every option on ebay means i accept i sent it damaged. Not acceptable Ebay.
Was pristine when sent. Buyer is a con artist and i cant even name him here!
Happy new year. NOT
33 comments
jerseyboymusic
·1 year ago@adrianmsmith
Curious as to the outcome of this
adrianmsmith
OP1 year agoI had to pay to have the damaged one returned to me and then issue a full refund.
Couldn't work out how to speak to human in eBay uk and the auto system just assumed all sellers are bad . No way to challenge
Very poor situation.
As i had used ebay for shipping im stuck with the situation as it is .
Win win win for ebay .
Not good otherwise!
The end of eBay for me but they dont care, they make their millions without my contribution.
thecharliebzone
·1 year agoI make sure to take very detailed pictures of not only the item, but also how it was packed and the final packaging. Those pictures I keep to myself just in case a buyer tries something funny. Ebay will force me to accept whatever lie the buyer told, but then I pester customer service with my proof. If that doesn’t work, I file an insurance claim with whichever postal courier I chose.
dm772012
·1 year agoyes! I totally agree with you and your post. I'm dealing with 3 buyers who are scamming my sold items. Ebay flavors with the buyers. I plan on closing down my ebay business after 12 years.
marnotom!
·1 year ago@luckythewinner
Prior to the Money Back Guarantee, buyers could avail themselves—legitimately or fraudulently—of PayPal’s buyer protection schemes as well as those from their credit card issuers if they made direct credit card payments with sellers or paid through Billpoint, eBay’s credit card facilitator in the site’s early years.
Your point is a good one, though. Risk can’t be completely eliminated in an online sale. Risk can only be shifted from one party to the other, and eBay’s near-elimination of non-electronic payments has shifted the risk almost completely onto sellers.
The thing to keep in mind with the MBG, PayPal buyer protection, and similar processes, is that they’re in place to circumvent credit card disputes or chargebacks, which are costly and time/resource-consuming to deal with. In fact, credit card issuers are starting to give up on doing much investigation of their own into INAD disputes for online purchases which has likely influenced how eBay handles MBG claims and credit card chargebacks of this nature.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoDepending on what you sell and who is likely to buy it, the problem is great or minor.
The US and the states have consumer protection laws which were written in a time of abusive mail order sales, and the buyer's rights are greater than the seller rights.
Ebay and the rest of the internet marketplaces, and all payment processors follow the laws as written, and when they do not take on some of the risks.
As other sellers have made clear, you need to plan for some number of bad sales, and have sufficient profits to absorb the cost of bad sales.
Unfortunately, many items sold on Ebay are sold with inadequate profit margins and a bad sale wipes out the profit from many sales. To compound matters, many of these short margin items are extremely attractive to scammers because they can be fenced easily.
The rational advice is not to count on such products and their sales to make your business successful. Some sellers resent being told not to sell anything, some sellers have no choices because they have no skills in acquiring products from established channels. Some sellers are selling targets of opportunity, items they know little or nothing about, and every item is of unknown risk and often acquired without any knowledge of what it can be sold for.
jerseyboymusic
·1 year agoA box can show no damage, but if the item inside isn't packed well (double box, padding, etc) breakage can occur.
Again, as mentioned earlier, I would NEVER ship an oil filled heater through the mail. Best go to WalMart, Home Depot, etc and get a brand new one IN PERSON
Hopefully OP can get the item back and issue a refund to the buyer. Unfortunately, USPS damage refunds don't exist any longer
village-peddler
·1 year agoCookie Jar/Insurance idea mentioned was not a bad one. It stinks to have to use that method, But it helps with the smaller losses. A big item loss will take a long time to pay for depending on your sales. Maybe in the future we can pay extra for a drone to watch the item being opened as part of the sale. Most of the time we have no idea of what happened on the buyers end, but i still get ticked off and want to try to contact ebay, Paypal, a stupid bot or whoever and tell them the buyer was lying. Often to no avail. Nowadays it seems they won't do as much as they used to. All i can do is list more stuff to make more sales. Sorry about the loss.
funfactorychannel
·1 year agoDid they sent a picture of damage item that you can post here?
Doesnt need the box to be damaged to have item damage.
I didnt know there is a time limit on opening packages, sometimes i take 1 to 2 weeks to open a box.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoIts becoming a rip off to try and sell privately on ebay
Fraud by buyers has been possible on eBay since 2008, when eBay implemented the Money Back Guarantee for buyers. Before 2008, I found the at seller fraud was just as rampant as buyer fraud is now. A seller would accept cash, check or money order and simply not ship the item - and there was nothing eBay or a buyer could do about it except leave a negative - and the seller could retaliate with a neg of his own!
Ebay just want to encourage buyers to rip us off.
I see no evidence of that.
Buyer can basically maliciously damage an item and then claim against the seller.
They can do that without maliciously damaging the item, too.
Every option on ebay means i accept i sent it damaged.
Every option on ebay means that eBay has no way of knowing who is telling the truth, so they do what is in the best interest of eBay.
Was pristine when sent. Buyer is a con artist and i cant even name him here!
Fraud has been possible on eBay since 2008, when eBay implemented the Money Back Guarantee for buyers. The sellers who accept that reality continue to sell here, the ones who do not leave.
carlmarxx
·1 year agoThe FBI 2008 reported Buyer online Fraud was higher then Seller fraud . Since then FBI has reported over all online seller fraud dropped in small numbers . And that Buyer fraud has increased to very high numbers . I recommended you check out lost/prevention .com which has over all major retailer report loss's of million's of dollars lost to return buyer abuse and Fraud .
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoSelling on eBay should be for small and light-weight items.
Not something like TV's, car parts, mattresses, etc. etc.
There are now women who are delivering items and they do not work in pairs.
Have you ever seen two people from the mail service or Amazon working together?
And then where the items are being delivered.
Does the delivery person have to climb stairs, open doors, etc. etc. while carrying the item...
Is the weather perfect or is there a storm during delivering the item.
Too many people think they can sell anything on this platform and too many buyers think they can have anything sent to them in a flash.
When a buyer makes a purchase in a 'real store' online there are usually 2 people delivering the product.
Some people are not equipped to carry heavy items.
Something can be dropped over and over and show no damage on the box on the outside..
As an example: like a glass vase broken on the inside of a box but outside of box not damaged.
roccotacodad54
·1 year agoI agree about small and lightweight items but the reality is people ship heavy and hard to handle items. As far as two people delivering go, I think USPS and others need to adapt to this which they haven't. Maybe separate deliveries once a week or so for such objects?
I ordered something heavy once (I could only find it online, nowhere else) and they just shoved it off the truck out by the highway. They didn't even drive down my driveway and shove it off closer to the house. This wasn't USPS but a different carrier. Now I won't buy from sellers that use that carrier or that don't specify which carrier they will use. In my case I had no other recourse but to have a heavy/bulky item delivered if I was to have it. The guy didn't even appear to have a handtruck to deliver the item.
People not equipped to carry heavy items are in the wrong jobs if they are to deliver such items. I've had plenty of jobs that required strength and those not strong enough simply weren't hired. It had nothing to do with gender or any other reason, just the strength required to perform the job. Custom masonry wasn't for the weak. I've also had jobs that required a certain height and reach. Same scenario, those not tall enough weren't hired in the first place because they simply couldn't do the job.
marnotom!
·1 year agoJust butting in to note that the OP is registered in the UK, not the US, and there’s a distinction between “private sellers†and “business sellers†on eBay UK that is not made on the North American eBay sites.
@adrianmsmith, while your problem is universal, you might get more relevant responses on the eBay UK discussion boards.
https://community.eBay.co.uk
adrianmsmith
OP1 year agoThanks @marnotom! I had missed that slight detail and had not realised this was a US site 🫣.
Sorry for the inconvenience and lost in translation confusion .
carlmarxx
·1 year agoBefore John Donahue took over in 2008 Ebay.com U.S had two types of Sellers Private and business like Ebay UK . Ebay second market and Private sellers still out number the B/M seller's . Sites business model is still member to member second market site . The UA still has both California and Utah Contract law statues. .
bonanza125
·1 year agoSorry to hear about your bad experience with Ebay. I don't share the same experience selling on Ebay. I look at it as part of the business. If I have a problem buyer I accept the return and block them. To address some of your claims.
"Its becoming a rip off to try and sell privately on ebay"
Ebay has a 30 day return policy. They must ship the item back to get a refund. If you the seller fight it then Ebay will rule in the sellers favor. You can't sell privately on Ebay. That is considered selling outside of Ebay. If you want to sell privately without Ebay then find another website which allows it.
"Buyer can basically maliciously damage an item and then claim against the seller."
This rarely happens and there is no evidence which would support a claim which a buyer maliciously damages an item to get a claim. The buyer has rights as mentioned 30 day return.
"Every option on ebay means i accept i sent it damaged. Not acceptable Ebay."
You agreed to Ebay policy where you will accept a return if damaged. Don't like it sell elsewhere.
"Buyer is a con artist and i cant even name him here!"
Posting personal information is prohibited and this is well stated prior to posting. The transaction is between you and the buyer not with us as in the public and the buyer.
adrianmsmith
OP1 year agoI think you are missing some points!
By selling privately i mean i am not a business. This does not mean i am trying to circumnavigate any rules. im the one being conned here! Get off your high horse. As to your suggestion, theres little choice of alternative placed to sell . Selling privately is perfectly legal but im sorry if its the wrong terminology . Selling through ebay as a private seller may be more correct.
This seller has definately damaged it.
I know it was pristine. I packed it.
The pictures this guy sent show rhe box still perfect and the radiator smashed like its been dropped heavily on to a step or something . Definately not whilst in the box.
It was a good quality oil filled radiator, delonghi , not a cheap b and q special.
jerseyboymusic
·1 year ago@adrianmsmith
Sorry this happened to you. I guess this is a posting account you are posting with, since I cannot see any active or sold listings.
There are lots of choices where to sell, and Ebay isn't really the "on-line flea market" it used to be. Whether a business or a "private seller", unfortunately the rules posted on the Ebay site apply to everyone.
Personally, I would not have shipped an oil filled heater through USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc. But that's me.
You COULD instruct the buyer to return the item back for a refund. Not sure if they would want to ship it back.
bonanza125
·1 year agoHave you ever thought that maybe it was damaged during shipment? You did state just now that it looked like it was dropped heavily on to a step. Did the buyer state anything about being upset and you stated you wouldn't accept a return? It's part of the risk of selling on Ebay. Yes stuff like this happens.
Ok you are a private person and not a business. Selling on Ebay you are considered a business so as a business there is a return policy which Ebay has in place. My recommendation would be is if you want to sell privately then sell local where someone can meet you in person for pick up.
adrianmsmith
OP1 year ago‎01-01-2025 08:23 AM
Have you ever thought that maybe it was damaged during shipment.....
Yes but the box was undamaged.
ittybitnot
·1 year agoOk you are a private person and not a business. Selling on Ebay you are considered a business so.....
@bonanza125
The OP is from the UK. The designation of private seller or business seller is a distinction that has additional meaning and protocols in that country. One being, private sellers do not pay selling fees.
johnrj1226
·1 year ago“Thou shalt not steal†is the eighth commandment of the Ten Commandments.
Laws are soft on theft - a the thieves no it well.
But someone stole the apple from the the apple tree way back then in that famous Garden and only 2 people were hanging around.
Today's situation is some people just love to get "free stuff" - eBay and other venues are no exception.
Check this out about Walmart https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=walmart+theft+losses+2023
PS: On a Superbowl Sunday in 1986 while living in a gated town home community. we were robbed while at a SB party - gone for about 2 hours. Had a new (Christmas gift) a bike stolen from our garage during the day I was 12.
Had 2 eBay buyer try to run a game on me - was able to beat them at there own game - see I grew up on the south side of Detroit and was a bit streetwise and understood the eBay rules.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@adrianmsmith
I've not had the experience you have but I know that one day I will because homo sapiens, unlike earthworms and single celled amoeba, have the capacity for great malevolence.
Meantime, I usually add a dollar to every listing as a means of creating an insurance fund of sorts for this sort of scenario.
I also offer 60 day paid returns, which allows me to charge a "restocking fee" of sorts should something be returned to me in unusable / un-sellable condition.
If you do not offer returns, you run the risk of a buyer gratuitously damaging an item in order the file an INAD and to avoid having to pay for a remorse return.
My understanding is that for its part, eBay simply lacks the resources to arbitrate individual buyer-seller disputes and relies on computers and AI. (You DO have the ability to report and to block the buyer, although I know that probably feels like minor consolation.)
Additionally, I suspect that eBay tacitly expects all sellers to make sufficient profit to absorb these sorts of periodic losses.
Do you mind telling us what the item was? I think that the sort of problem you have encountered are more common to some selling categories than to others. regards
ittybitnot
·1 year agoMeantime, I usually add a dollar to every listing as a means of creating an insurance fund of sorts for this sort of scenario.
@fbusoni
FWIW
Way back when, the recommended amount for a "cookie jar fund" was fifty cents per listing. My first hit as a seller was for $1750, and a month later I got a customs hanger hit me up for $850. So at the going rate of fifty cents, I would have to have 5200 transactions to break even. Even if was bumped to $1, I would need 2600 transactions to recover.
I never put much stock in the "cookie jar" insurance.
dcrtechandelec
·1 year agoAside from the overall negativity in this post, how old is this "cookie jar fund?" I've just never heard it before and have been using the site on and off now since before I was old enough to have a job. Also could you go a bit into the customs mishap and whether or not it's likely in an environment today like an eBay international shipping program? Seems common for the ones who've been here the longest to make alts for the forums. Doesn't seem like it's used for much of anything though.
powell-collectibles
·1 year agoThe idea of a cookie jar fund is fairly common. It is for anything – damage in transit, returns, etc.
It is usually brought up when a seller complains that one bad transaction is going to sink him. Also comes up when folks are asking about buying insurance – that cookie jar fund is cheaper than adding insurance to your shipping expense.
ittybitnot
·1 year agoAlso could you go a bit into the customs mishap and whether or not it's likely in an environment today like an eBay international shipping program?
@dcrtechandelec
The eBay EIS program is a vast improvement, if a seller should elect to use it. Since I do not sell here anymore I don't know what the Managed Payments system does for a buyer who files an INR when tracking says simply "items in customs" and no longer shows movement if EIS was not used. I am pretty certain that if a buyer files INR with PayPal directly, "in customs" is still not considered "delivered" with no EIS. Not all sellers have an EIS program available to them, so it might be worth your while to read on the one of the EU boards to see how it is presently handled.
The problem was that it was a simple matter for a buyer to claim INR, since "in customs" was NOT considered "delivered", get a refund (from the seller's proceeds), and then simply go down to the customs office and pick up the parcel after the fact. eBay's response to a seller who was a victim of this ruse was simply to "ask the buyer to repay" which is still used today in many cases, even with domestic sales. The seller could also make use of their "cookie jar insurance" fund I suppose as well.
Yes, I am an eBay dinosaur...LOL. been here since 1998. The scams come and go, and many of eBay's policies and procedures often appear to make them possible, and enable them go on for years. Whether you agree or not, just about any product can still be had for free (at the seller's expense) with the right kind of phony claim. One should know their risk tolerance and never put up anything for sale here that they are not willing to lose, and pay additional money to just "maybe" get it back.
I would have to agree that the EIS is an improvement to be sure for as long as their protections will last. Too bad they don't let US sellers to NOT ship domestically, or elect to NOT ship to certain states.
Happy New Year!
johnrj1226
·1 year agoCookie jar fund has been around way longer than when Hector was a pup. My grandmother told us about it, she kept one hidden during the Great Depression. PS. My Mom always had one for rainy days until she passed - she never let any one know until just before that day. Not many people trusted the banks during and after the depression.FYI I'm the youngest in or immediate family and have just entered the 8th decade of being on this planet.
buyselljack2016
·1 year agoI look at cookie jar insurance as just a virtual fantasy.
The reality is the (+) money goes in one column on the ledger.
The (-) money goes in another column.
slippinjimmy
·1 year agoAt 10 cents per sale my virtual cookie jar has a positive balance of more than $5000.
johnrj1226
·1 year agoSimply put an extra buck or more in the kitty or miscellaneous account as an added cost of good sold as each item was paid for. Then kept a given amount we titled "Hold" in our account (used be the PayPal Debt Card then a checking account for rainy day events or save up a trip to our fav casino.
Different strokes for different folks.
femmefan1946
·1 year agoMeantime, I usually add a dollar to every listing as a means of creating an insurance fund of sorts for this sort of scenario.
This is often called Cookie Jar Insurance on the Boards, because those virtual pennies and dimes go into a virtual Cookie Jar.
If you do not offer returns, you run the risk of a buyer gratuitously damaging an item in order the file an INAD and to avoid having to pay for a remorse return.
This is true.
It seems counter-intuitive, but offering Returns is a good way to reduce Claims. It also increases sales, since not offering returns makes buyers wary.