What I was afraid of with jewelry.
Buyer bought both of my pieces under different accounts and now wants to return them because he says the pendants were real but the chains aren't real. I told him to return the items at full value and I will find out about the chain vendor which was separate.
112 comments
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoUpdate: Both buyers returned my pieces and received their refunds. I still think it strange they were separate transactions but everything was in sync with each other. Oh well I hope it is over and my family members will get some nice jewelry gold pieces.
gurlcat
·1 year agoSo they both returned the pendant and the chain - WHEW, I don't know if you realize how lucky you got, because it could have been a real heartbreak with either or both of them.
I get why you find the whole melt price thing distasteful, although I am 99.9% sure that neither of these guys would have actually melted these beautiful necklaces even if they were solid gold chains. -They would have simply resold them, because remember the melt value is only the MINIMUM value, and typically only badly broken jewelry gets melted.
But even if you still feel gold buyers/resellers are sort of shady characters just because their opportunism, I gotta say from all my experiences with them here, they are VERY GOOD AND HONEST EBAY'ERS. All the times I was nervous about how badly they could rip me off ... they didn't. And these 2 are prime examples of that, so I'm glad to have witnessed this story.
Good luck to you, and I hope your favorite girls love the necklaces!! 💗
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoUpdate: Tracking shows both buyers shipped my items and waiting for delivery. Disappointed as these are nice quality items. I promised these items to family members as gifts. I have bought some new pieces but hesitate to sell jewelry again.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoThis is for sure a learning experience in my selling journey!
jdbelt1960
OP1 year ago"We had a chance to review the buyer’s return request and decided to ask them to return the item. There’s nothing you need to do at this time. This case will not affect your seller performance."
This is a portion of the latest I received from EBAY. I will make no further attempts to rectify with this buyer. My concern is now the second buyer. I have a great seller reputation and would like to maintain it.
gurlcat
·1 year agoWhat date did you receive this eBay message?
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoI received it today. I also got the same for both buyers to return my items by Aug12. I just feel it strange for two different buyers to buy my items and put in the same complaint word for word at the same time.
gurlcat
·1 year agoWhat??? You said FIVE DAYS AGO that the buyers already started returns back then, July 24th!
There would be no reason for eBay to "review" the return requests unless you failed to approve them so the buyers could have the return shipping labels, like you were supposed to. No wonder they haven't shipped yet! 🤣
@a_c_green @ittybitnot Can you make any sense of this? Like why it mentions a "case" for instance? Do you think this buyer had to escalate since the OP didn't respond to the return request? Or was it actually a chargeback? Or what?
a_c_green
·1 year agoReading between the lines of that cryptic message from eBay, I'm thinking that the buyer decided to ask eBay to "step in" to the return case that had already been opened, but mirabile dictu, eBay actually told them to return the necklace, per the terms of the claim that they had already opened (most notably that the seller had responded by asking for the item to be returned).
I think what we're seeing here is eBay supporting the seller's right to have the item returned first, before a refund will be issued.
gurlcat
·1 year agoYou mean it' actually possible for the buyer to ask eBay to step in when the ball is already in their court? Like if they requested a return and the seller approved it, what is there for eBay to review? What "request" or "intervention" is there to ask for, at that point?
a_c_green
·1 year agoMmm, yeah, I can't say for sure here, as I've never had to get that far into a dispute (as either seller or buyer). Nevertheless, the OP is quoting a message from eBay indicating that they did indeed tell the buyer (Problem Buyer #1 as I understand it) to get off his butt and ship the item back if he wants to get refunded for it.
Thus it sounds like the buyer tried to instigate something further and eBay told him No. The only thing I can think of in that scenario is the dreaded "step in" request (perhaps made via a phone call with Customer Support, not necessarily by finding a Step In button to click), though in this case it seems to have backfired on the buyer.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoMaybe that is why it was an easy call on both buyers. I never refused the return of my items upon full refund.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year ago"We appreciate you trying to work things out with the buyer. They've asked us to step in and help resolve their return request, so we're going to take a look at the details of their case and decide what the next steps should be."
This is the other part of EBAY message to me.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoI checked a box and approved them to return the items when this first started. I received a noticed days ago that the buyers had Aug12 to return my items. I received separate official emails today from EBAY on behalf of both buyers giving status. I have also communicated with each buyer attempting to resolve. If there was something I failed to do to facilitate this return I should have been told. My instructions were nothing further required on your part.
gurlcat
·1 year agoDid either of them ever try to make excuses like "I don't have a printer" or "I don't know how to do this" or anything?
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoAs I said I will no longer include jewelry in my lineup I have thought long and hard. Those pieces in question are nice and are at a good price but fell in the wrong hands. I will not let them dictate my business direction as I feel most people are nicer. I will try to advertise differently. These pieces in question were not priced as something they were not.
ittybitnot
·1 year ago@jdbelt1960
To what city/state did you originally ship these items? I don't have time to read this entire thread again, but did anyone suggest you check to see on Google if the address was that of a freight forwarder/business. Buyers that use f. Forwarders are not allowed to benefit from claims other than Item not Received (INR), but since they both arrived that will not be your problem. You can have cases dismissed for other sorts of claims, buy using the eBay social media portals to contact US based CS reps.
The problem is that eBay will not tell you a forwarder was used, and just process it like any other domestic sale. You can go to their feedback page and see in what country the buyers are registered. If you don't know how to click through the new pages eBay has thrown up to deter your arrival on the correct page, use the following link and insert their username:
https://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/feedback-login.html
You will also have been charged an additional "international fee". Typically, but not always the forwarder addresses are located in Delaware, Oregon, Florida, NY, etc. The "haggling" as @a_c_green called it is not typical behavior of this type of client, but you never know.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoStatus: As of 7/25 the items have not been shipped. EBAY sent me a message saying they have until Aug12 and my funds will be released.
gurlcat
·1 year agoSo, here is where I think you have good reason to be hopeful. - I think there is a very good chance that neither buyer will actually ship their returns, and they only filed them as a last-ditch effort to see if you would refund them voluntarily, to avoid being charged for the return shipping label (in case you didn't know, you will NOT be charged unless the USPS scans them).
I AM PRETTY SURE BOTH BUYERS STILL GOT A GOOD DEAL, EVEN WITH THE CHAINS BEING GF. -The only question is whether they know that or not.
When I look at again at the two necklaces, even though you didn't weigh the pendants, state their measurements or even show them next to a coin or whatever, their size relative to the clasps gives some indication, like the Nefertiti one appears to be about 1.5 inches tall, or one full inch at the very least.
So, here is a roughly same-size pendant, and it weighs 4.34 grams.
At today's gold price, it would be worth $272.89. And when I play around with the calculator, I see that your Nefertiti pendant would have to weigh less than 3 grams to be worth less than the $150 price your buyer paid! And I don't think she was that light-weight.
Even if she was ....... she is not the only valuable piece. -A 24-inch, 14K GF chain (which yours looks fairly thick) -that has a CONSIDERABLE amount of gold in it. And there is an online calculator for that too! Like if the chain weighs 15 grams, it is worth $48 in gold.
So, I think each of your necklaces are really worth a minimum of $200, just at "scrap" value, but they're not scrap junk -they are beautiful WEARABLE pieces that these guys could easily sell for profit ...... IF they know what they're doing, and aren't just knee-jerking about the chains not being solid gold.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoI sort of believe the same thing and they are trying to play me. I will see if they return them or not. At 150 those are nice necklaces and could have been more.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoI would really rather for them to return them though. I will gift them to my favorite girls, wife, stepdaughter and I pulled a listing I will give to my granddaughter. I will not try to sell jewelry anymore.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoEBAY status is still awaiting both buyers to ship items. They have until Aug 12. The EBAY message says if not shipped they will close the case. So either they don't know how to return ship or realize the necklaces have value more than they paid. One buyer did offer if I refund $75 he would drop it. That would be giving one of the items free so I refused. I did not overprice a solid gold pendant and gold filled 24" necklace at $150. If the chain was solid gold it would have added another $200 to it easily. This was not intentional but trying to make a nice affordable quality necklace.
gurlcat
·1 year agoSo neither of them show a single line in tracking status, like they haven't even printed the labels? If so, yeah that's a good sign! There's still a chance they're just waiting for tomorrow, as lots of people pile all "to-do" stuff on Mondays.
And then ..... either of them could be the procrastinate-until-last-minute type, and finally ship on Aug. 11th.
I had a fair amount of those when I was mainly a clothing seller, not so much with jewelry. And that kind of makes sense because a garment is a larger item and mildly irritating to pack. Then even if the person knows how to schedule a USPS pickup, a garment bag might not fit in their mailbox, so it would mean a drive to the post office. Honestly I think it's ridiculous how many days eBay gives buyers to ship returns. There's no reason they would ever need so much time. And the reason I know that is because they ALWAYS ship in either of those two timeframes: within the first few days, or on the last day, NEVER in the middle. So it's really just about what kind of habits they have, not what their schedules dictate.
I'm curious about what you see in those buyers' feedback. Do they have feedbacks as sellers, or just buyers? And what does their "feedback left for others" look like? Do either show a history of giving sellers nasty or an excessive number of negatives?
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoSo I tried to settle for a $25 rebate but he want $50. I pretty much told him to just send my stuff back (In a nice way).
gurlcat
·1 year agoWas this supposed to be part of a longer reply? It starts with "So" ... with nothing before it.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoI think it was out of exasperation in trying to resolve this issue with the buyer. One asks for $77 and this one asks for $50 rebate. This is from a $150 purchase. I believe those necklaces are worth every bit or more than the price they paid. I will just welcome the return.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoThe Buyer takes responsibility for one item and sent me a picture of what he would be sending back. I sent an email to the buyer of the second item apologizing for the situation (because I never heard from them). It just seems strange that their buys and subsequent complaints came at the same time using the same language.
gurlcat
·1 year agoWHY did you apologize to the second buyer if you never heard from them??
Can you just answer the simple question of how many return requests do you have? One or two?
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoTwo. The second person had a return request but I have not heard any complaint from him.
zienty
·1 year agoIf you sell gold you should buy a scale and take pictures of the item on the scale to give buyers a gold weight. Once you know the weight go to one of the gold conversion sites on the internet to give you an idea of melt/scrap value. Just trying to share our experience and save you from some of the mistakes we've made. Good luck.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoYes I have decided against selling jewelry because I had no idea how many people look at scrap melt value rather than artistry. When my pieces are returned I will gift them to family members who loved them.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoMy latest from EBAY says buyer has until Aug12 to ship my items back since my acceptance of return. After that it is a done deal. It is not up to me to send them a return postage label as EBAY does that from my account.
44012
·1 year agoAre you sure it is not up to you to send them a return postage label?
I noticed you have a no returns policy so I am not sure that return label auto generates.
In the past I have always had to send the buyer a return label on a not as described issue.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoIf that is the case I offered the buyer to close the matter and handle it offline. He simply ship my items and I will send him a certified check for his costs upon receipt.
44012
·1 year agoI do not believe that you can handle this offline at all. To do so risks issues to your account, your item(s) and the funds ebay is most likely holding for you.
The buyers need to file actual return requests on ebay if this hasn't been done.
nyr134
·1 year agoI'll defer to those with more expertise in returns - but you will lose out on recouping the selling fees you have paid if don't process the return within the eBay system. (probably talking $40 or so on $300 in sales)
gurlcat
·1 year agoIf eBay indicated a deadline that means the buyer has their return label, or at least has access to it, so the OP must have chosen the correct response to issue the return label from her own seller account, and it auto-generated.
What is more concerning is how she talks about "the" return, and "the" buyer and "his" label, even though she said both buyers requested returns. So for all we know, one buyer's return request is sitting there with no response, and will time-out in 24 hours or whatever, and eBay will just snatch that money from the OP to refund the buyer with no necklace returned, plus a defect on the OP's account for making eBay step in.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoI just knew this was a problem because of how fast it happened.
fern*wood
·1 year agoWhen I make a mistake in my listings or state something wrong, it is usually a problem regardless of how fast it sells, but your mistake definitely made a difference with these which made them sell quickly. Gurlcat explained about the price of gold where those large heavy looking chains would be quite valuable if they truly were gold as listed. Most sellers selling jewelry use cameras that take clear close-up photos to help buyers see what they are buying.
gurlcat
·1 year agoOf course any buyer could have written to ask what the marks said on the chains, to clarify that they were solid gold. But what these gold guys do is buy first, check later -because if they wait for a message reply someone else will buy it. -They have no incentive to be certain, because of the money back guarantee. It's a zero risk investment.
I've gotten lots of gold, silver and highly desired designer brands that the sellers didn't even mention because they weren't aware of them but I could see the marks in the photos. No way would I ask questions and draw their attention to it, lol! And if I had seen these necklaces, I would have bought them too, and returned them too, unless the pendants are heavier than I'm guessing.
I just HOPE neither of these buyers does the thing I fear, which has already been mentioned as a possible outcome.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoYes I accepted the fault and accepted his return. His problem is he can't figure out how to return it.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoThis guy said he would settle for a half price off of the $150 cost LoL ! I told him I want the return of both items of which he will deny knowing about the other one.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoWhat I have found is it is 14K gold filled chains from Turkey. Still beautiful chains. I believe he bought my items for meltdown because the price still was not unreasonable. I want him to return my items
gurlcat
·1 year ago@jdbelt1960 Would you humor us and do a quick check of the tracking for both of these orders, just to make absolutely sure they were really delivered today?
And while you are at it, would you mind telling us what city and state they were delivered to? -That may actually be important.
mtgraves7984
·1 year ago@jdbelt1960
Oh, my.
Is it the two listings you spoke of in this thread? >> Solved: Selling collectibles adding jewelry pieces - The eBay Community
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoYes. This guy bought them fast with different accounts and immediately now wants to cancel both with different accounts.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoYour issue seems confusing to me. You state the buyer wants to return the items.
Then you state he wants to cancel.
The deal with cancellations is this (and perhaps you did not know this): The buyer can ask the seller to cancel, but the seller does not have to agree to cancellation. And there is no point in requesting to cancel after the item has been shipped.
If the buyer HAS received an NAD item, he needs to open and item not as described case on both transactions.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoNo he wants to return which is not a cancel. His reasoning is after testing the chain was not as advertised although the pendant is.
mtgraves7984
·1 year ago@jdbelt1960
Keep in mind that the listing(s) included both. The buyer can't keep only the preferred half of the listed items. Dang...
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoThe irony is the pendants are worth probably more than he paid.
mtgraves7984
·1 year ago@jdbelt1960
Well, you make sure and go through the eBay system... don't let them jerk you along through messages. The buyer(s) can't 'cancel', obviously. Each buyer will have to open Return requests. Period. Approve them and do not refund until you have the items back. Good luck and good golly...
gurlcat
·1 year agoSo did the buyer write you a message and basically admit to being both of those "two" buyers who made those purchases? That is very weird but maybe not a red flag.
As for giving him a return label, that is not something you need to fuss with until he FILES official returns on these two items. Right now what he is trying to do is get you to voluntarily issue him partial refunds, without him having to return either necklace/pendant. DON'T DO THAT.
Tell him to file a return on both necklaces, and when he does, you will get a notification that you can 'approve' to accept the returns, and eBay will issue him the labels. I guess it will be 2 separate ones, since he used 2 different accounts.
mtgraves7984
·1 year ago@gurlcat
Glad you're here, and I'm screaming ^^^ what you are. 🙌
What do you think will be coming back to the OP, considering the previous thread (page 1,#11)I mentioned? I'm skeert...
gurlcat
·1 year agoPfff, this is one of the wildest wild cards I've ever seen, and unfortunately we're missing too much information. First there's the question of whether/which pieces really are or aren't solid 14k gold. Then there's how much they weigh. -If the buyer is telling the truth, then he really did overpay because the pendants would be a tiny fraction of the total weight. If he's lying, he'd have to be the greediest MF ever, because he already "stole" highly valuable items for very little money. So I lean toward "truth" in his claim.
That said, will he actually return both necklaces, FULLY (pendant and chain)?
Right now I suuuuuure wish I knew these two account names and could see their details and feedback history (namely "left for others"). I'd love to know his exact wording in his complaint messages too. But I'm afraid of overburdening the OP with too many questions.
nyr134
·1 year ago@gurlcat this is the (originally) blurry photo of one of the chains sold. If I put my Sherlock Holmes hat on and find a pipe, I could believe it’s upside down and says 14K lower left preceded by a fraction. But maybe I’ve been staring at it too long. Any opinion?
gurlcat
·1 year agoI think you're right that it's upside down, but other than that it's too blurry. I think I can actually see 14K at the right end of the top line. If that's right, then it's probably "1/20 14K" (meaning gold filled). The bottom line kind of looks like TURKEY maybe??
One concern is just the fact that the mark is on a separate cartouche that is easily attachable with O-rings. It's a much better sign when it's on a part that is brazed directly to the chain, like this:
That is NOT to say that one is guaranteed fake and the other guaranteed real. Both can be either! But just statistically and based on simple logic, separetely-made cartouche should draw a bit more scrutiny. Really I would do an acid test on any piece of supposedly solid gold weighing more than a gram.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoThe chains turned out to be 14K filled gold. The Pendants are solid gold and not in question. The pendants are really the value (I thought) as one can always buy chains. I want him to return them to me in whole and I will return his money. I should have sold them for more anyway LoL!
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoIt seems difficult to find solid gold chains. Gold is a soft metal and would not be too durable for everyday wear.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoNo but when someone buys two items within 5min and then complains about the same items at the same time I would say it is the same person.
gurlcat
·1 year agoWait, do you mean he wrote you 2 separate messages under the 2 accounts, each with the same complaint? Or did he complain about both necklaces with just 1 account?
And it really would be helpful if you would look at the tracking, if only to see whether they were delievered to the same city (and what city was it?)? -We need to know this in case a freight forwarding service is involved.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoOne account is in California and the other is in North Carolina. But they work together.
gurlcat
·1 year agoWell now it seems unlikely either are foreign buyers using a freight forwarder. There are some in California but the vast majority on the West Coast are in Oregon. And I've never heard of any East Coast ones in North Carolina.
But I assure you they don't know each other at all. There is no practical way (or reason) for 2 buyers on opposite ends of the continent to work together. They're just gold stackers who both have eBay audio notifications set to alert them whenever there is a new listing of pre-owned gold jewelry, hoping to get a great deal like the necklaces you listed. Both of them buying within a few minutes is exactly what I would expect at such low prices. -If one of them COULD have grabbed both fast enough, s/he probably would have. But instead each got a single necklace.
And both got their delivery on the same day, both discovered the chains were not solid gold, so both are hitting you up for partial refunds. Again, don't cave to their pressure, no matter how angry they act, or pretend they don't know how to file a return. They know!
powell-collectibles
·1 year agoIf he used two separate IDs, I would assume that those were guest accounts. Just a guess.
if I were in your shoes, I would provide a return address to the buyer. Maybe he’ll send the items back, maybe he won’t. I would not encourage him to open a case with eBay. If he does return on his own dime, you can send a partial refund to him.
gurlcat
·1 year agoYou would only partially refund someone who cooperated and returned your item?
powell-collectibles
·1 year agopartial as in, I would withhold the shipping fees, potentially. Honestly, everything I sell is with free returns, but if a buyer made a return out of the system, and it looked like it was premeditated return from the beginning, I consider withholding those original shipping costs. Sure, if he made a stink about it, I might refund the whole thing. But I really don’t need to make things easy on somebody that is claiming that an item is not as described before he even gets it.
jdbelt1960
OP1 year agoI actually suggested that but told him a full refund offline.