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What happens when a buyer refuses your partial refund offer?
I have a buyer who doesn't like their item but doesn't want to return it because they used a freight forwarder.
Here is their message to me "i am a hong kong buyer , is too high cost to return, my address is US warehouse address and it transfers to hong kong, i want to leave negative comments but system suggests contact seller first, i don’t think i paid that price and received this product."
I don't think I want to go thru the route and hassle of fighting this potential feedback extortion as I don't know if it qualifies. So I'm thinking of having them file a return (feedback protection) and I just offer a partial to cover all of my cost. But what happens if they refuse the partial within the ebay return? Does it go back to "return the item for refund" status and I pony up the return postage from their FF which they probably won't even use, right? Or will it go directly to ebay stepping in and ruling to give the buyer a full refund, keep the item, and I get a defect?
kh-urvashi
·11 months agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoUPDATE: Today I've being tested with my literal knowledge of what INR/SNAD/return details page allows or doesn't allow you to do when they are filed and open. And this one update post I'm making is no different.
I don't have much experience issuing partial refunds after a return is open so I can't recall much from memory. But today is the last day for me to act on this remorse return that the buyer in my OP ended up filing. And to my surprise I see that I'm not even allowed to issue a partial refund at this point of the return. Is that true for all returns? Or is this another technical glitch?
It's confusing because you can see the field where I can "give a little more info" and it says "Required for deductions" but it doesn't allow me to amend the refund amount. I forgot to show a screenshot of the previous page, it only gave two options with the blue buttons. Accept return or Refund now.
Btw, I already closed the return by just refunding in full because it was only $20.
mam98031
·1 year agoAre you TRS?
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoValid question that I forgot to consider because this is on a newer account. But yes it is.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoI've never heard of the window to offer a partial refund & buyer keeps item (instead of buyer returning or you refunding without a return) being less than the 3 days you have to respond, but I admit I haven't paid much attention to that and usually respond to returns within a day.
I do not see that having a shorter timeframe in the policy page so I don't know why the option to offer the buyer a partial refund + keep item is no longer appearing.
That one I do know. No, you shouldn't see the option on the refund screen pictured because the up to 50% deduction option (different from the partial refund + buyer keeps item offer) exists for buyer abusive returns, items returned in an altered/damaged condition, and since the buyer didn't return anything you can't use either free returns protections or TRS protections to deduct part of the refund.
vintagecraze50
·1 year agoEbay wont step in right away no. If you offer them RETURN FOR REFUND. I DO NOT KNOW HOW THESE WORK WITH international as far as who pays the return ship. If it is not as described I suppose you pay for that and that might be high cost. Call ebay and see what the situation is with who pays this return shipping.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoInternational sales is another topic because this sale is domestic on record. Freight forwarder. I’m aware of the obligations regarding returns, just wasn’t sure about what how the protocol works when the buyer declines a formal partial refund offer. I’m clear on that now.
vintagecraze50
·1 year agoAccording to the rules on here they MUST either accept that partial refund OR return it. Escalate to ebay if you have any more trouble. Buyers cannot get free merchandise just because they complain.
mam98031
·1 year agoIt wasn't a formal partial refund offer. At least it wasn't last night when I went to bed. The buyer had not opened a claim of any kind. This is all through emails. Per the OP, the buyer doesn't want to return the item anyway.
buyselljack2016
·1 year ago@iamalwaysright
"Does not like their item" sounds like a "remorse". Are you not given the choice to "decline"?
ittybitnot
·1 year ago@iamalwaysright
Has your buyer filed a claim with eBay? or just doing some "tree shaking"?
Buyers that use Freight Forwarders void their protection for MBG claims once the product has been delivered to the forwarding company. The typical issue is that eBay never informs the seller that a Freight Forwarder was used and processes any 'item not described' claims like any domestic sale, hoping you don't notice.
Used to be a that, when contesting the claim eBay would require the seller to provide proof that the product was actually forwarded. That is not the case anymore. If a seller is fortunate enough to recognize a NAD claim is coming from a buyer that used a Freight Forwarder, a quick contact with an eBay social media rep typically has the case closed BEFORE you have to submit a return label from the forwarder back to you.
They also help when the label has already been sent. Often a less than honorable member will use the label, have someone in the US tweak the addresses and they either send a box of air to your local gas station to satisfy a return has been made, or send a cheap trinket purchased on the net back to you (the latter was more expensive and is not used as often.
Social media portals connect with US based employees that know all about this. They have the authority to help you.
https://www.facebook.com/eBay/ (blue message button)
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
https://x.com/askebay
Here are some F.Forwarder issues that can be stopped in advance if the seller had known what to do. It will familiarize you with the different scenarios that can happen IF YOU SEND THAT LABEL so you can be prepared to act in an expedient manner.
Good luck to you!
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-using-USPS-return-scam-Ebay-decided-case-in-buyers-favor/m-p/34225035#M2339548
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Help-Miami-Freight-Forwarder-says-wrong-item-sent-and-returning/m-p/34234105#M2341629
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Getting-screwed-over-for-months-as-a-seller-on-on-an-blatant/m-p/34253728#M2346631
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Ebay-refunded-a-buyer-without-me-getting-my-item-back-from/m-p/34267762#M2350243
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Return-scam-nothing-new/m-p/34302635#M2358896
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/The-new-buyer-scam-and-eBay-s-ignoring-Policy/m-p/34301810#M2358639
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Return-Scam-so-simple-but-super-effective-What-should-I-do/m-p/34350235#M2371144
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Scam-and-ebay-ignores-it/m-p/34356453#M2372717
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Seller-Beware-of-Buying-amp-Return-Scam/m-p/34386391#M2379744
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Scammed-on-My-First-Major-Sale-A-Buyer-s-Deception-and-Lack-of/m-p/34424217#M2388957
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/What-more-proof-could-eBay-possibly-need/m-p/34425944#M2389459
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Need-advice-on-a-customer-return-Never-received-return-and/mp/34498149#M2409355
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/eBay-messed-up-Lawsuit-en-route/td-p/34547069
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/iPhone-Buyer-Scam-Abuse-of-eBay-Protection/m-p/34568104#M2428528
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/iPhone-sale-scammed-by-buyer-Ebay-sided-with-them/m-p/34579951#M2431674
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Ebay-facilitates-fraud-against-seller-and-still-charges-seller/m-p/34633858#M2446459
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Scammed-and-eBay-won-t-help/td-p/34633093
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-Created-False-Returns-Case-with-Fraudulent-Fake-Tracking/m-p/34724972#M2470905
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Why-I-m-closing-my-eBay-account-reported-eBay-to-the-FBI-and-am/m-p/34772539#M2483947
ryry-jj
·1 year agoIf I'm not mistaken, if returned for say NAD, the buyer in Hong Kong has to pay to get it back to the US point of acceptance, correct? From there, the seller might be responsible for return shipping. So I can see why maybe too much to return, but that might just be the buyers problem.
dbfolks166mt
·1 year agoThis must be your posting account since I see nothing listed or sold and that is fine. However, a few more details regarding the item you sold would be helpful. A lot of times a buyer will phish for a discount or partial refund from the seller using extortion methods like the threat to leave negative feedback.
Is this a long time buyer or somebody fairly new. Experienced buyers, especially those that use freight forwarders are, or should be, aware of the terms and conditions of the eBay MBG. They know full well what they paid for the item when they bought it including the shipping cost. As far as receiving it how could they not like it if they have not received it yet.
I would nicely respond to the individual and tell them you are sorry they are unhappy with their purchase and they may return it for a full refund but in accordance with eBay policy they are required to cover the cost of shipping the item back to the freight forwarder.
stuff4divas
·1 year ago@iamalwaysright here is the ebay link for info on full and partial refunds>
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/refunding-buyers-managed-payments-seller?id=5182&st=12&pos=5&query=Refunding%20buyers%20as%20a%20managed%20payments%20seller&intent=partial%20refund&context=9056_SELLER#section2
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoAre we talking nickels and dimes or hundreds of dollars?
I have given a refund of $30.+...sometimes...and a freebie...my feedback is important to me...
We don't really know your feedbacks profile...so...some sellers have 50+ negative feedbacks and still make great sales.
For me, that one negative feedback will look me in the eye for a year.
Some buyers won't even tell you that you are going to get a negative feedback...as least this person mentioned it...key word...'mentioned it'...which means nothing in emails with artificial intelligence now.
Usually Hong Kong buyers are rather honest...
Letting eBay step in...'the kiss of death' usually...mission statement of eBay...seller should work it out with the buyer.
meme6253
·1 year agoIt is not your fault or your problem that freight forwarding was used, It's a return for full refund.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoAgree. There may be some instances where a seller may decide to deviate from standard practices. Could be because of a bigger picture benefit or something. Who knows.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoEdit: That isn't correct. For an explanation of the process see this post.
lakefor94
·1 year agoI was in a similar predicament a few years ago and had to go to the Twitter reps to work through it since we did not come up with a definitive answer here. I offered a partial and the buyer ignored it, no response though I know he saw it.
When a partial is offered, it locks up the return as far as the seller options. If the buyer declines the partial and the return has already entered into the time period of when eBay can be asked to step in, the buyer can decline the partial and turn right around and ask eBay to step in.
I dont know if it is automatic or if the buyer has to initiate the escalation.
If the buyer declines the partial right away and the return has not entered into the timeframe where eBay can step in, it would also be good to know if the seller can still provide a return label at that time and allow the return to proceed?
My deal was even a lot more convoluted and I won't get into that other than the buyer eventually asked in messages to just close the return and I hit the Twitter reps up again and they saw the message and closed the return.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoOh that would be bad! I would hope if the buyer rejects a partial offer that it can become a return (I don't want this refund I was offered I'd like to return it instead).
I'm hoping this is not correct.
C.
an-36344
·1 year agoActually @iamalwaysright that's not correct. When the buyer declines a seller's partial refund no return needed offer, the request reverts to the remaining options -- to return for a refund, to refund no return needed, or to message the buyer (which is not considered resolving the request).
When the buyer declines the partial refund offer (they have 21 business days to decide) and it's been more than 3 business days since the request was started, the buyer is given the option to immediately ask eBay to step in, before the seller can react to select from their remaing options to resolve the return request.
That's why it might seem that escalation is automatic, when the buyer declines a partial refund offer.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoAh, thanks @an-36344 . Knew you'd have the answer and a screenshot if you saw this thread.
Because of that long window the buyer has to accept/reject and because they can immediately ask eBay to step in after a few days @iamalwaysright , it's risky to offer the partial on transactions where buyer is covered by the MBG. Message the buyer first to see if they're open to a partial rather than the alternative of returning for refund. Feel out the situation.
But ... since the buyer is not covered by the MBG on this transaction, you could risk it. There's always the option of filing an appeal if the buyer escalates and eBay's AI makes an incorrect move.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoThanks @wastingtime101 and @an-36344 for that answer. The logic makes sense. I actually talked to CS today about this and she told me “if a buyer declines the offered partial, the seller is to move forward with the return.†Technically she is correct, but the “time to act†windows create a sort of loophole here that leads some people to believe the return immediately goes into escalation review. By the way, you guys notice how sometimes (but rarely) escalation reviews end with a “return item for refund, seller is charged for return postage.� I recall this happening to me a long time ago when I expected a “full refund, buyer keeps item†ruling instead. I wonder what the criteria for that ruling was. But that’s another topic.
Thanks everyone else for their input too. @12345jamesstamps you have a good point. The amount is around $50. It wouldn’t be far fetched for me to agree to just the full refund and let them keep the item to keep the peace here. Those of you who are saying it isn’t my problem since the buyer doesn’t want to return it and is international, yes that’s true. I’ve mentioned it before. And yes, I shouldn’t have to cater to them. Right again, I shouldn’t. But this is something that I might consider because I want to. I do follow many of my own rules when selling, but I never believe any rule is or should be absolute. This would be a calculated decision and as I said earlier, may cause a greater global benefit for me in the long run. Breaking eggs to make an omelette, if you will. That’s all I’ll comment on that. Thanks again peeps!
antmiravill0
·11 months agoHi, so for instance if the buyer ask ebay to step in at the day 4, a bot reply him or her at the moment? I mean it's an automatic escalation or me as a seller have time to reply and give a label?
mam98031
·11 months agoThis is an OLD thread. Start a new one please @antmiravill0
kyle@ebay
Hey @wastingtime101 I'm glad to see that this was corrected. @an-36344 hit it right on the head! It just reverts to the remaining options. However, your understanding about the automatic escalation may have stemmed from buyers escalating shortly after rejecting the partial refund, which we do see from time to time.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoThanks @kyle@ebay - it's too bad eBay didn't put in a 24 hour clock after the buyer rejects the partial for seller to respond with a shipping label, so the buyer can't escalate immediately. (Assuming it's after the original 3 day window for seller to respond.)
I've seen sellers report the buyer agreed to the partial via messages, then rejected the partial through the return and it was immediately escalated to an unresolved case defect for the seller and loss of fees. Seller had no chance to proceed with issuing a return label voluntarily at that point.
Maybe you could pass along that suggestion.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoYea ebay totally didn't consider the clash of time windows (or lack of) here.
kyle@ebay
Hey @wastingtime101 I most certainly can pass that suggestion along!
lakefor94
·1 year agoThe 24 hour cushion would save eBay some money on refunding FVF fees to the seller. As it stands now, I never offer any partials thru the return due to the aforementioned pitfall.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·1 year agoIf you are TRS and offer the buyer a partial refund and they decline and they then return the item and it gets broken in transit you can no longer deduct from the refund
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoWhat I do is talk to the buyer first about the partial return and get them to agree before sending it. From what I know you have one chance to get it right, so it's good to know they agree before doing it. (Then if they don't agree to it after saying they would, that would be a question for here, but I don't know the answer since that hasn't happened to me yet... I presume if they reject the partial you are stuck with the return).
C.
fbusoni
·1 year agoSo I'm thinking of having them file a return (feedback protection).
I'd stop right there. Send the message requesting a return for a full refund, and should this escalate, eBay will see that you offered a fair resolution.
bashort
·1 year agoonce you know that the buyer does not want to return the item but wants a partial refund you have the upper hand, every time they message you say return for full refund.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoThe buyer isn't asking for a partial. As the message says they want a refund but don't want to return the item because of the cost. Maybe because it's near the holiday season and I'm a bit sympathetic to the buyer to consider offering a partial instead of force my hand to give a full refund only if they return it. But I need to know that if they decline the partial will it go back to the standard "return for refund" option and not have ebay step in and review.
albertabrightalberta
·1 year agoWhy are you making the buyer's choice to use a freight forwarder your problem.
Presumably, you are on ebay to get rid of "stuff," whether as a business or to thin your belongings. If you want to give things away, you could do that locally (church, thrift, charity, neighbors, friends) and in some cases, take a charitable donation deduction.
How expensive it is to return to the freight forwarder is the buyer's problem.
Tell the buyer that "I can't issue a refund without a return. Please return for refund."
And if he negs you, report the comment of "i want to leave negative comments but system suggests contact seller first" certainly sounds like feedback extortion! Grrr!
mam98031
·1 year agoThat puts you in an excellent position as a seller. No refund if they don't return the item, period.
I don't usually mess with buyers like this. Most are just fishing for some of YOUR money. However, I've been selling a long time and sometimes my gut tells me the buyer is being honest. You need to decide how you fell about this.
It is extremely rare for me to fully refund a buyer without a return. It would have to be a pretty cheap item. FYI, that however does not give you any guarantee they won't ding your feedback, even if you do what they want.
The first thing I go and check when a buyer hits me with a situation like this is I check their Feedback page for Feedback left for OTHERS>
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoI concur. Also with the part of rarely issuing refunds without the item back and doing digging about the buyer.
inhawaii
·1 year agoBuyer does not agree to a partial refund...
"Please return for a full refund".
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoIs this what it literally says on the ebay return when the buyer declines the partial refund offer? I ask because I never issued a partial for an open return before.