TOO MANY BAD SELLERS.
Summary: The discussion centers around frustrations with eBay, particularly concerning claims of fraud and issues with sellers. chapeau-noir and ccomic discuss experiences with receiving items with flaws and how eBay handles claims of fake tracking, expressing concern over perceived ineffective customer support. ccomic suggests that claims should be automatically refunded unless the seller provides concrete proof of delivery, a notion that chapeau-noir is skeptical of due to potential biases from reading negative forum posts. Additionally, there's a broader conversation about the challenges buyers face when disputing charges, fearing hassle and reputation issues with their banks. The underlying sentiment among participants reflects a lack of trust in eBay's resolution processes and a reluctance to engage in disputes.
EBAY needs to start policing sellers who violate US laws. It is getting out of hand. It seems that I have to deal with too many bait and switch sellers on this forum. You HAVE to HONOR ALL SALES. YOU CANNOT SUBSTUTUTE ITEMS. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE UNSATISFIED WITH THE PRICE YOU GET.
You CANNOT TRICK BUYERS.
If eBay continues to allow illegal activities on it's site, EBAY will become liable for these acts. It is called CRIMINAL FACILITATION.
KNOW THE LAW.
linenandlaceltd
·4 months agoI buy clothing more than anything, and my experience with clothing sellers on eBay is pretty bad. Very different reason from the initial reason this topic was made.
They always say "excellent condition" or select "good condition" and say in the description "great condition no stains, holes, rips etc" and then NWT of course isn't supposed to have anything wrong.
Nearly every single time I get the item and it arrives with stains. Yeah I get my money back, and usually I end up having to keep the items, but I just want the stuff I'm ordering in the condition it's said to be in. I don't like the trouble I have to go through to get it handled when there are problems. So I really don't trust eBay sellers at all. When I order something, I always hope it's fine but I expect it's not.
I realize that this is how a lot of buyers feel on eBay and I think about how much that affects my sales here too. The only thing I'm able to do is strive to be a better seller than them so my buyers know exactly what they're getting.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoToo many people start selling clothing because they can get it easily, but they don't know anything about it. I have a feeling it's perceived that one *doesn't* have to know anything to sell it, which is unfortunate.
ETA: The whole clothing and accessories category is a bit of a swamp, to be honest, there's just so much of it.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoWhen you shop for clothing, are you vetting your sellers carefully?
linenandlaceltd
·4 months agoI read their feedback, a lot of them have 100% feedback or very close to it, and have sold a good amount of things. Hundreds or even thousands. They get feedback that says the items were exactly as described, but what I get certainly isn't.
adamcartwright
·4 months ago@linenandlaceltd
Do you leave FB on those INAD transactions?
Because I always check FB when I make a clothing purchase here, and I'm wondering if buyers just don't leave negative FB when they're unhappy.
linenandlaceltd
·4 months agoI don't, because I know there are a lot of sellers who read the "left feedback for buyers" section of a buyers profile and do what they can to avoid selling to those who leave negatives. Even if they're justified.
It's one of the reasons I dislike that feature they added. I would love to warn other buyers, but not at the expense of me being able to buy things without issues from the sellers.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoThose of us who have immediate payment required tend not to see the feedback left so we may have sold to some really chronic neg leavers and not known it! IAC, we need to stand behind what we sell and not be fearful - I've made some stupid mistakes in my selling career but I try to resolve them immediately and see where I can improve knowledge/operations for the future - my flubs have been my best teachers, painful and embarrassing as they are.
gone.c-33
·4 months agoThat’s kind of a catch 22 though, isn’t it?
You would like to be forewarned about sellers who omit to disclose defects but aren’t willing to warn other buyers.
To be fair, if you leave calm, reasonable factual feedback when you have an unhappy experience, good sellers aren’t going to block you and those who do wouldn’t be sellers you’d want to purchase from.
roccotacodad54
·4 months agoI don't know who you are buying from but I have had very very few problems with bad sellers.
Sure every once in awhile I run into a bad one but I just give them a dose of -The Money Back Guarantee- and my problem gets cured.
Perhaps I'm just lucky or able to spot bad sellers before I click to buy ?....................
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoI think this is more a case of 'what if'. Ccomics* stated he hadn't been defrauded but...WHAT IF? This forum does have various scare stories, but it's really a slanted view.
*ETA: Sorry - NOT the OP.
luckythewinner
·4 months agoI am confused.
Bad sellers have been tricking buyers for years. Decades, even. Why will eBay only become liable if they continue?
If you believe eBay is guilty of criminal facilitation, why don't you believe they are already liable for what has happened in the past?
fern*wood
·4 months agoThere are no doubt some bad sellers on ebay, but when I looked at your feedback numbers I saw lots of purchases and good feedbacks you have given. Buying that many items would certainly land you on a few clunkers, just as sellers get a few clunker buyers, but I have to think you are getting enough good deals to want to continue buying. Your choice of course.
lakefor94
·4 months agoJust tagging on here. The OP sticks around ebay because OP knows the best deals are to be had here, most of the time. Prolific buyer, eBay lifer. Ain’t ever going away. If you want/need deals, The OP and others know, eBay is the place to get them. Always great to hear from the OP, every once in awhile. Kinda cracks me up.
eburtonlab
·4 months agoThere are all sorts of sellers on eBay, good and bad and in-between. This has been the case in the past, and likely will continue to be the case in the future regardless of what eBay does one way or the other.
Luckily for buyers, it is possible to distinguish between different types of sellers, and thus avoid many of the worst ones before committing to a purchase.
There is a wealth of information available on a seller's feedback page beyond just a simple number or percentage, if buyers choose to look closely.
There may not be enough information on a seller's feedback page to adequately judge the seller's history, but that in itself is valuable information.
Any buyer should be able to look at a seller's feedback page and quickly put the seller into one of three categories:
1) Experienced sellers with proven track records of delivering exactly what was advertised, with a history of selling similar items or similarly-valued items, as shown in the feedback comments of actual buyers.
2) Experienced sellers with patterns of troubling feedback that show serious problems, indications of being drop-shippers, or drastic changes in behavior that might indicate a hijacked account, or sellers suddenly offering deals that are "too good to be true" with no indication of having done so successfully in the past.
3) Sellers without enough experience to classify in either of the first two categories.
Buyers that want to avoid having to invoke eBay's money back guarantee as much as possible can certainly choose to only purchase from sellers in the first category, avoid the second category entirely and reserve judgement on those in the third category until there is enough data to put them into the first or second category.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoPart of competence is making sure you know what's going on, and keeping up with changes...rather than just complaining about them.
Can you imagine a physician today complaining about having to wash his/her hands? Handwashing didn't become standard practice until the middle of the 19th century.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months ago@leehurst
Understand that I'm not disagreeing that there are bad sellers, non-performing sellers, scammers or bait-and-switchers. There absolutely are! And they're all over the place, not just on ebay.
But something that hasn't been mentioned yet is what I noticed in your buying history.
Some categories of purchases may tend to have more scammy sellers, dropshippers, importers from China, etc. And buyers who do a high a volume of buying are going to (eventually) run into more bad sellers than buyers who buy only a few items.
In looking at your feedback, it does NOT appear that you run in a lot of issues. Just in the last month, you've made about 200 purchases and of those, only 2 were negative experiences for you. IMO, that's a darned good record for the type of items you buy.
Again, this isn't to imply that there should be any negative experiences nor am I saying that it's not frustrating but you've actually done a decent job vetting most of your sellers!
lakefor94
·4 months agoOle Lee, We always do appreciate your stopping by.
kibble-net
·4 months agoHypothetical question for you.
Let's say you buy an antique vase from my shop, and it accidentally gets broken before shipment.
Do you still want me to ship you a broken vase?
soh.maryl
·4 months agoOf course not. But, IMHO, I do want you to contact me and tell me what happened, refund me immediately and I would not mind seeing a picture of the pieces although I know it's not required.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoMost sellers, even off the forum, aren't "bait & switch" sellers. The platform has done a pretty decent job of weeding out truly bad sellers. I think the biggest problem with sellers today is a incompetence. There are a fair number of hobby sellers, or new sellers who are hoping to make ebay a full-time gig, who absolutely do not know what they're doing. Buyers mistake them for proper online retailers and then make a stink (usually on one of the community boards) about being scammed when the reality is it's just a couple of clueless dingbats both thinking they're finding/making great deals at one another's expense.
Truth be told, there are far more bad buyers on the platform today. The pendulum is slowly starting to swing back as their antics get more and more egregious. It's going to be a little while before things even out, however. Other major reselling platforms, and even regular retailers, started to seriously crack down on buyer fraud last year. It's just a matter of time before ebay does so formally (they already do informally, but you do have to jump through a lot of hoops as a seller to get help). Buyers like the OP couldn't be satisfied with just returning items for a refund, so they'll invariably make it increasingly difficult for legit returns to get processed, and buyers who may be justified in asking for a refund will not get them.
Sellers will become increasingly savvy, catching on to all the ways buyers abuse the system, and cover their behinds so that real fraud becomes too costly for the average buyer to even try. Only truly dedicated slime balls and sub-morons will continue to try (much like their selling counterparts).
grann-4629
·4 months ago... biggest problem with sellers today is a incompetence. There are a fair number of hobby sellers, or new sellers who are hoping to make ebay a full-time gig, who absolutely do not know what they're doing.
These are the people who got eBay going 'back in the day', but with all of the changes since then, it has become very difficult for new hobby sellers to conform to every rule, let alone even understand them. That is why the hobby seller of unique things is disappearing from the venue and being replaced by the mall type sellers.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoIn my personal opinion, the biggest issue with both buyers and sellers today is that there aren't enough of them who read anything at all about how selling works here or how buying is done. When an issue arises for these people, they tend to blame it on eBay or their seller or their buyer.
For example, there are evidently long term buyers and sellers who know nothing about the MBG. Some of them have waited months for the arrival of a purchase for some unknown reason. Then there are those who get hung up on feedback or the lack of it.
adamcartwright
·4 months ago@soh.maryl
I don't know... from the posts I've read, I wouldn't call anyone hung up on FB.
Sellers are understandably concerned about FB they feel is incorrect and/or may impact their account.
Buyers can be understandably concerned about not receiving seller FB, as they wish to look like an established eBayer in the eyes of sellers.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoOK, you and I are evidently not reading the same posts. Also, it seems to me that there are very few buyers who're concerned about looking like an "established eBayer". Most sellers, I believe, are thankful to have any buyers, regardless of their status.
grann-4629
·4 months agoMost sellers, I believe, are thankful to have any buyers, regardless of their status.
Just to add that I believe most buyers are thankful when they get the item they wanted at a reasonable price and within a reasonable time.
kandf_vintage_finds
·4 months agoI wholeheartedly agree.
Except I doubt any of the "bait and switch" sellers are on this forum.
Sorry you are frustrated.
meme6253
·4 months agoI will agree there are to many bad sellers on this platform, But not on this forum!
foster9
·4 months agoHmmm. Try Amazon.
r_lresale
·4 months agoLegal jargon without context OR knowing how/if those laws apply to a particular situation isn't helping you or anyone else reading this thread.
Ebay is a marketplace facilitator providing a platform for third parties (sellers) to list items to sell. Though they collect and process payments, they do so only to be in legal compliance with the marketplace facilitator laws, which is basically for collecting and remitting sales tax to each state. To suggest that Ebay engages in criminal facilitation, it would have to be proven that not only criminal activity such as stolen goods, money laundering, etc. actually occured, but that they KNOWINGLY aided or abetted it or acted recklessly without having preventative measures in place such as seller identity verification and monitoring software in place to catch "suspicious" activity. That is a pretty big order to know what each seller is doing/will do before they do it.
" You HAVE to HONOR ALL SALES"
Well yes a good seller should honor all sales, but to be fair that may not always be possible in situations of lost/broken items. On the flip side if you as a buyer cancels a transaction or simply don't pay should you be held criminally responsible for not "honoring" the sale?
"I have to deal with too many bait and switch sellers on this forum..YOU CANNOT SUBSTUTUTE ITEMS. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE UNSATISFIED WITH THE PRICE YOU GET"
Again prove that the seller intentionally advertised one thing and sent another with the intention of taking your money and running. Dropshippers often don't know what is actually being sent out and sometimes it is an honest mistake in the listing details or mixed up packages.
If a seller refuses to complete the sale to you, there is no financial loss. If you receive a NAD/incorrect item consumer protection laws allow you to return an item for refund or dispute charges to get your money back. Without financial loss there is no criminal activity.
KNOW THE LAW
slati_2013
·4 months agoI don't know what US law you are talking about. I use other auction sites. Many sales are subject to approval of the seller. They tell you upfront the seller could choose for any reason not to sell the item. I have seen countless completed auctions pulled because the seller did not get the price they wanted. These are sites where the US government and state governments post their surplus stuff. And they pull their auctions when they do not get the price they want.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoeBay's Money Back Guarantee for buyers is really quite good.
What changes would you suggest that eBay make to offer more buyer protection?
christworks
·4 months agoSomething that you do not. But, if you'd like to be schooled in a law school lesson, I'll be happy to send you a Black's Law Dictionary.
grann-4629
·4 months agoNice offer, but I think he's OK with his Funk & Wagtails version ...
ed8108
·4 months agoI wonder if more than a few buyers who have had a unhappy buying experience decide to not come back, & possibly inform some associates & friends of that experience which could possibly deter others from shopping on eBay.
Bad sellers, are not good for business
twk
·4 months agoBad sellers are not good for ebay. Sadly, anyone with a phone or computer can sell on ebay. Integrity and honesty are not requirements.
eburtonlab
·4 months agoBad sellers are not good for ebay. Sadly, anyone with a phone or computer can sell on ebay.
Just because someone meets the low bar to be a seller on eBay does not mean anyone else has to automatically buy from that seller, of course.
As a buyer, you are allowed to have your own personal standards, and you can choose to only buy from those sellers that meet or exceed those standards. You don't have to spend any time justifying to anyone a decision not to buy from a seller with poor feedback, no feedback, or suspicious feedback.
inhawaii
·4 months agoIt's prety hard to get ripped off as a buyer on ebay.
ccomic
·4 months agoI've read stories here that seem to contradict that. I myself have not been flat out defrauded on eBay. There were plenty of times where I received items with undisclosed flaws.
The real problem is my perception from these forums that eBay stonewalls fake tracking claims and there seems to be many going around. I don't want to damage my reputation with my bank, so I am very reluctant to dispute charges there. One thing I would NEVER do is dispute a charge with a vendor (say eBay) and then authorize additional charges with that same vendor. How does that look to the credit card company when someone makes charge after charge to the same vendor that they repeatedly claim defrauded them? If a company defrauds you, you should not go back and "try again".
So the bottom line for me is the hassle involved, regardless as to if I eventually get my money back or not. Also either falsely claiming NAD or dispute with my bank are options I don't want to be forced to take.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoHave you actually been defrauded again and again by eBay sellers? I'm wondering at all of these seemingly awful experiences you have here - are you having these experiences or are you basing a scenario on all of the maybe/maybe not problems you read here?
I also don't understand "eBay stonewalls fake tracking claims" - what are those? Who are you buying from? As I say, like any forum, one will read any amount of stuff on here - wild claims as well as real problems.
ccomic
·4 months agoI highlighted a part of my original response that answers your first question.
eBay auto rejecting any DNR claim because tracking showed delivered is stonewalling in my book.
What do you think of this ... how about any DNR claim is auto-refunded unless the seller can provide a signed and notarized letter from the postmaster validating that the package was delivered? And if you think that is unreasonable, then please explain why is OK that buyers are expected to produce similar proof to the contrary?
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoI had a hard time believing your first statement given your subsequent remarks about constant fraud - it's why I asked. So it's only what you read here, a forum mostly existing to field problems and answer questions, and which has a minority of eBay users who actually post here? As I said, I would not take that as a summary of the whole of eBay.
As for "fake tracking claims" - if the USPS shows the package was tracked to, and delivered to, the buyer, that's pretty much done. It's up to the buyer to provide safe receipt for that mail, we sellers can't do that for them - we can't help porch piracy and we can't actually go to the buyer's house and track down the package that fell down into the yard. It doesn't make it 'fake'.
ETA: Buyers and sellers are held to the same standards insofar as mail - we all have to prove tracking and delivery. If a package is late by even a few days, we run into the risk of INR and having to refund. This left sellers on the hook during very busy seasons, weather emergencies, etc., if mail was delayed - maybe we'd get paid, maybe not. It's only recently, and only under strictured conditions, that we'd have a chance at some resolution. Buyer just gets their money back.
ccomic
·4 months agoIt was hypothetical, plus there is also the risk that my bank would also deny my claim in which case I would feel obligated to close all my accounts and find another bank. Again, its really the hassle I fear more than the loss of funds. I just don't need it in my life, at least not for saving $5 on a beanie baby.
Any yes, I admit that I am influenced by the forum stories which are obviously slanted towards the negative. Still, I am just staggered by the idea the eBay would deny a refund in a false tracking case, (possibly intentionally) not do any additional investigation for who knows what reason(*), and put it all in the lap of the buyer. I just can't get past it.
(*) I've heard various excuses for eBay not investigating claims. Ranging from its illegal (even though a buyer can do it when they aren't the package recipient either) to AI apparently taking over the company and not allowing humans to investigate. Of course there is the much simpler possibility that eBay doesn't want to get involved because its cheaper to lose the customer than to investigate the claims. In any event, just knowing I'll be left to twist in the wind if there ever is a problem is enough to keep me solidly in the sub-$50 bid range.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoIt's fine if you want to limit purchasing - up to you - I would just beware of 'worst case' thinking when it comes to what you read on chat boards - they're simply not objective. Half the time people aren't even aware of how this site works.
inhawaii
·4 months agoThen you're covered.
Return it free of charge for a full refund.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoAlso, these forums are basically to help people with problems so one hears all bad stories - few come here and say 'I had a GREAT transaction with seller Dingus*r*Us!!!' The forums are not a reflection of eBay's seller base as a whole, which I've found to be pretty darned good.
ccomic
·4 months agoI actually agree that there are too many bad sellers. I don't think all the good ones are gone, but they have certainly been diluted. Also, picking a bad one for your purchase is a 100% hassle guarantee - even if you do eventually get your money back.
I won't be buying any thing here that is priced more than what I can just shrug my shoulders and dismiss on a loss. The risk (and we can debate the risk level all day) simply isn't worth it for any obtainable level of price savings. I only consider rare items I can't get elsewhere and I've been passing on bidding lately for things where I am "on the fence", which I probably would have bid on if I had never come to these forums.
Google "how many eBay buyers encounter fraud" and see what the AI says.
Until eBay at least stops stonewalling tracking scams, I simply won't risk any high value purchases. I simply don't have any desire to purchase a hassle.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoNot sure I trust "the AI" - it makes a lot of mistakes.
broto_64
·4 months agoI have bad news, it's everywhere.
Unless you specifically go to only B&M outlets, and that involves traveling costs and time.
grann-4629
·4 months agoGoogle "how many eBay buyers encounter fraud" and see what the AI says.
Google "how many eBay buyers do not encounter fraud" and see the AI version of the other side
ccomic
·4 months agoThat is funny, but I can't be blamed for what google says 🙂
wheelworkzmurfreesboro
·4 months agoI don't trust AI to be accurate. Its really dumb
marnotom!
·4 months agoThe problem with the “shrugging your shoulders” approach is that it doesn’t alert eBay to the fact that it may have a bad seller on its hands, so the seller continues to do their thing unchecked and the problem is perpetuated.
ten_o_nine
·4 months agoeBay strictly prohibits listing an item and sending a different one. Sellers cannot cancel an order just because the final auction price was lower than they wanted. Sellers who frequently cancel orders or substitute items face selling restrictions, fee penalties, and permanent suspension.
How would you police it?
annadryl
·4 months agoI could also say that Khoros needs a filter for Internet Lawyers who don't include any references of their legal accusations.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoDang - BUSTED!
Unavailable member
·4 months agoBait and switch from sellers in this forum?
Selling isn’t allowed in this forum.
meme6253
·4 months agoThey might have meant this platform rather than forum.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoDarn tootin! Are you gonna apply for that policing job?
grann-4629
·4 months agoDarn tootin! Are you gonna apply for that policing job?
He's going to fill out an application as soon as he can figure out how to turn off the caps lock key ... give the man a chance ... he might be a real human.
itsjustasprain
·4 months agoA review of his posting activity shows that he posts a big shrieking all-caps rant here about every month or so.