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The ominous eBay "Algorithm". Fact or Fiction?
I see quite a few references to the eBay "algorithm" but I haven't seen any evidence that one actually exists.
Does the algorithm exist?
How does the algorithm manifest?
Is the algorithm room with us right now?
Ok, last question was meant to be light hearted and more humorous. I just don't know how the algorithm would manifest. Most of my items are found using "search". I assume the buyers order search results by lowest price with shipping included and begin to examine each of the cheapest item to find one in the condition and price they desire.
Watching YouTube videos from "top rated sellers" offering advice on eBay, I often hear suggestions on how to appease the algorithm by "do these 5 things daily".
Do we have examples of eBay shadow banning accounts on eBay? Clear cut examples where you can see this algorithm in action? Excluding sellers "promoting" items by paying a fee to be at the top of a search. Does eBay really channel traffic to sellers it prefers or favors?
kh-vince
·2 years agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoIf Ebay follows the same path as Amazon, the Best Match is biased toward the listings which are likely to stand the best chance of selling. And Ebay often copies Amazon.
How they determine that is the subject of much debate, just how buyers decide which listing to buy is debated.
Classic SEO seems to only increase impressions, not top 20% impressions which matters more.
inhawaii
·2 years agoOf course it exists.
I had zero sales September 14th.
How do you explain that?
martyshangout
·2 years agoYes eBay does hide and take off items that don't sell in a particular time . I had 1726 items removed back in 2021 due to ?? Who knows ?? I asked the ebay selling team and they had no idea why it just happens like We Were Born just happens
an-57470
·3 years agoAnyone claiming to know how to beat the so called algorithm is a clickbait scammer - run away as fast as you can.
Ask them to publish this so called algorithm for you so everyone can take a look at it and use math to determine what is does. Ask them to put up or shut up.
In reality its a larger group of interconnected algorithms.
In programming these "threads" of coding are accomplishing various tasks simultaneously and / or consecutively. They can be triggered automatically and manually. Keep in mind all this code is written by humans.
As far as you know upper eBay management could manually invoke a wee bit of special code to hide your very valuable item so an agent acting on their behalf can buy it for nothing and resell it for big dollars. Dishonest local auctioneers do this all the time - they intentionally suppress items because they can make a lot more reselling the item themselves than any commission they get form the item. One local auctioneer had antique shop connected to the end of the building, resells items in another consignment shop, and employees resell on eBay.
redlinear
·3 years agoI just ran a two word search. (I have an item promoted BIG that usually pops up 1st in this search).
(best match) Sure enough, there it was, very top. Started that listing Nov 2022. 707 views. Other sellers items down the page.
A minute later, I backed out, ran the exact same search again. I now have the 1st five items.
interesting
coolections
·3 years ago@redlinear That is part of the algorithm. Once you clicked, it kept track of you searching that item. It now knows you like the item. If you backed out and removed cookies the results would have been different. It just like sell-through gets you closest to the top, buyers clicking also gets you closer to the top.
an-57470
·3 years agoAnd if one researches the competition before listing an item - ebay will continually show you anything that you have previously researched as they think you want to buy the items.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·3 years agoJust to be clear, "Cassini" is the name of the search engine... It is driven by computer program code (instructions). That code implements algorithm(s) which are processes to accomplish the work.
The algorithm of adding numbers together to find a total is called "Summation." The operator used to perform the summation is the addition operator, aka: "t=n+n" whereby 'n' is input data, t is output data.
Algorithms in computer science are simply processes, we can put whatever name on them we like.
Here's an algorithm I just made called "Froggy Doggy."
x=((14+c2) x (f4 - x3) x 5)
It add's 14 to a variable named c2 multiplying the result by variable f4 minus the variable x3 and then multiplies that result times 5 and assigns it to variable x. What's it do? Well I just told you! But lets say it computes a trajectory stone graphics in a video game or perhaps its how many "Hit points" you're dungeon and dragons character inflicts upon another character.
In the end, algorithms are processes of accomplishing work.
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5 2
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4 9 1 6
The above is a data structure known as a "Binary Tree." There are algorithms to process binary tree's, this one is an "unordered" Binary Tree. The below is the result of running an algorithm over the unordered binary tree to "order" it. Now that it's ordered if we'd care find a value within the tree there are algorithms to "traverse" the tree following either right or left nodes depending on an algorithm comparing our input data against the data in the tree in ever so simplest of terms.
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2 3
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4 5 6 9
chapeau-noir
·3 years agoSchematic of query in search:
 
coolections
·3 years agoIt depends on what you mean by channeling traffic to preferred sellers? Your question is vague, but I assume you are asking how Ebay decides who's listing get closer to the top and who's drops down closer to the bottom? There are several factors at play and thus the reason for a computer algorithm. It is not Ebay, it is the computer making the choice. All Ebay has to do is give the program parameters to work with:
Seller rating "above standard, below standard."
Seller performance "tracking submitted within 24 hours.
Time it takes a seller to ship an item.
How many defects.
How many unresolved cases.
How many returns.
The BIGGEST factor IMO is your sell-through percent.
movieman630
·3 years agoJust out of curiosity are you from Missouri?
If you have a website in 2023 you have an algorithm. Even if you don't control it yourself. The entire internet functions off of algorithms. If ebay can manipulate search results, that's controlled by an algorithms.
Just because I can't see germs with my eyes doesn't mean they don't exist?
bamorris
OP3 years agoI don't think of an algorithm as a website. Simple web pages served on a web server don't constitute a algorithm in my view. Internet servers run specialized services such as Apache or Nginx that can serve static web pages.
The entire internet doesn't function on algorithm or algorithms. There is hardware that runs software. Algorithm a term used often for ominous black box type activity that is unexplainable to most involved.
Not from Missouri, but we should have more evidence of this black box-type activity that is often the blame for unexpected or unexplained events on eBay.
Viruses can be viewed using electron microscope.
movieman630
·3 years agoI know a website isn't an algorithm. But it's what drives them behind the scenes on search engines.
inhawaii
·3 years agoDon't forget about the algorithm that throttles or cuts off your sales completely if you come on the boards talking bad about ebay. That's my favorite one.
stainlessenginecovers
·3 years agoAccording to reps on eBay, there IS an algorithm and it is 'top secret' as to how it works.. which is latin for 'we have no idea'.
But, there must be something or this place wouldn't have so many issues with the search as 'search' is one of the first commands a computer learned in the 1960's; otherwise a computer would be worthless.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·3 years agoOf course it's secret... Someone at Mercari get that code and management be yellin', "Quick! Hire a programmer we need to understand this!"
Now searching in the 60's was very time consuming having to put stacks of cards into a tray. Little did anyone know in the far flung future the term "Al Gore Ithm's" be so popular along with "Hanging Chad." I mean back then such a term as "Hanging Chad" be rather offensive so they called em', "Swingin' Lucy's."
iart
·3 years agoWhen looking to price items we often see the same item sell for greatly different prices. 10X as much sometimes. Why?
Because eBay decides to place some items higher in search visibility than others. Some buyers don't want to search around (or don't know how) and simply get the one that's easiest to find.
Call it an algorithm. Call it chance. Call it and 'act of God'... whatever...
yuzuha
·3 years agoJust to point out, the price you see when you search Solds isn't necessarily the actual price the buyer paid if there was a seller-initiated offer involved. If you look at my Solds, for example, it shows that Kingdom Hearts pin sold for $20. It was actually less than that because I sent an offer to its watchers and one of them accepted the offer.
nuclearomen
·3 years agoyes
if we knew the inner gears of the algorithm no one would be here complaining about sale - algorithms are a highly kept secret.
Youtube videos aren't greatest source of info. Never once did I watch one from a "top rated seller" (btw most all sellers are top rated lol) that showed or taught me anything I didn't already know and figure out on my own...those same sellers giving those advices experience the same decrease and lack of sales as any other seller - to wrap it up - they know nothing special, and i know for a fact half of them get their "information" from these boards.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·3 years agoCassini takes a plethora of information it processes to rank listing results. Sell through rate vs impressions, seller history, seller defects, returns, claims, price, shipping such as price, location related to the searching consumer and more. Since Promoted Listings now exist they will take precedence over normal organic searching *IF* the seller ranking via Promotion and Cassini's results warrant higher ranking. In other word a seller with "Defects", poor shipping times on and on may still rank low even when paying for Promoted Listings. Last thing eBay needs are lackluster sellers blanketing Promoted Listings causing consumers grief.
As with any search engine page one will see the most traffic, page two will be an ENORMOUS amount less and after page three views will be near nil.
redlinear
·3 years agoAlgorithm as defined means......Oh my gosh....... We know what you mean.
I search MANY MANY MANY MANY items every day. They start as best match, and I'll filter high-low price, and then "used".
Most times my searches are a bit vague. Intentionally because I want to see everything related. OR, I want to see items from sellers that did not include all the info that they might have should have included.
Quite often I'll know that I have THAT item and wonder where it is. AND then get more precise and STILL not find my item.
Which makes me wonder how many other items I'm not seeing.
If I'm not seeing my stuff? Makes me think shoppers might not be either.
LOTS of times, I'll end up switching to "nearest 1st" to see my listing. (usually that does find it).
I read yesterday that the search only pics up the 1st three words of the title. Since search now uses item specifics mostly. But, I tested that today with an odd ball word at the end of the title. Search found that word. (so, that 1st three title words only isn't correct).
There is a trend with my items though. I'll list 30 unrelated items in one day. Then MONTHS later, in one day, sell several of those 30 items, to different buyers. SO, what starts out as easily seen, gradually becomes harder to find....then, comes back into view (based on time).
I assume this is to let all sellers have a few sales, instead of a few sellers having all the sales.
Ending and Restarting listings every month or so is how many sellers battle this.
sapphire_studio
·3 years agoOP are you asking if people search using Best Match (which is obviously some type of search algorithm) often compared to just sorting by price?
Yes on average I am sure people probably just let ebay feed them the automatic Best Results more often than they bother to sort by Price or Newly Listed or Ending Soonest.
So when sellers talk about being affected by the algorithm is means their placement in this Best Match results page. Hidden could just mean put hundreds of spots lower not removed completely from the results. When the algorithm "likes you" you get better placement and more eyes on your listing and most likely more sales.
This Algorithm not only 100% exists she has a name: Cassini
https://algopix.com/glossary/cassini-search-engine#:~:text=The%20Cassini%20search%20engine%20is,impact%20on%20an%20eBay%20seller.
hotspotauctions
·3 years agoEverything that runs on the internet uses an algorithm, or many of them.
I only know from personal experience of looking for an item six ways from Sunday in a search, and then finding one or two for sale in a browser search that did not come up in my eBay search. If there are thousands for sale I get it, but if there are only one or two for sale, show me what I am looking for if you want to make the sale, be it a piece of tooling or a car part.
orangehound
·3 years agoBy the way, the "algorithm" works both ways. It can also boost the visibility of a seller's inventory.
My favorite story is the week where we had next to nothing in sales, and then in a period of about 2 hours, we made 4 sales - all to Minnesota.
Of course it could have been a coincidence, even though we had probably made only 1 sale to Minnesota in the previous 3 years.
bamorris
OP3 years agoHow many total sales did you have yesterday? Were the items similar to each other or were they completely dissimilar?
orangehound
·3 years agoOn eBay, 3 sales ...
Two sort of similar, one different. The shipments went to Canada, Mississippi, and Oregon.
1tuna
·3 years agoits hard to tell if you are asking about the search algorithm or the money algorithm
california is the largest seller in the USA
ebay likes to make sure the buyers are also in CA so the tax boost favors ebay
the los angeles area has a tax of 10%.
all of that tax is added in and the the FVF is then taken out
ebay is in love with the high tax states, it adds to the bottom line
sales are steered to states with high taxes. that way ebay gets more bang for the buck
fiction?
@bamorris
pjcdn2005
·3 years agoProbably fiction.
It's more likely or just as likely that the ebay sales are higher in California simply because there are more people there than in any other state.
dhbookds
·3 years agoI see quite a few references to the eBay "algorithm" but I haven't seen any evidence that one actually exists.
I suggest you look up the definition of "algorithm" if you think they don't exist on ebay........
Hint: all computer functions are the results of algorithms.........
chevymontecarlo88
·3 years agoI see quite a few references to the eBay "algorithm" but I haven't seen any evidence that one actually exists.
Does the algorithm exist? Yes, the Algorithm is a result of programmed coding.
How does the algorithm manifest? Through programmed coding.
Definition
Algorithm -a process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations, especially by a computer.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoROTFL. No evidence? The "Best Match" setting in search is about as "evident" as you can get!
Best Match is a scoring system where each listing is scored on dozens (if not hundreds) of factors, and a listing's score determines where it appears in the Best Match results. Over the past decade or two eBay has identified some of the factors involved, such as price, seller rating, distance from buyer to sellers, return policy, free shipping, etc.
And referring to "the" algorithm is hopelessly naive. eBay has thousands of algorithms that do thousands of things. There is no monolithic "algorithm".
bamorris
OP3 years agoI'm not sure that search optimization really qualifies as this ominous "algorithm".
I'd like to see evidence of these "thousands of algorithms that do thousands of things".
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoI don't know about "thousands', (beyond my ken) but for sure there are many.
There must be "many" to optimize the search for a buyer to locate items. (good for eBay)
There must be many to thwart those who would break the AL code to direct all to their selling.
chapeau-noir
·3 years agoSearch optimization makes best use of the algorithms. Which are nothing more than lists of instructions to carry out certain procedures to achieve certain results. That's it. No mystery.
bamorris
OP3 years ago@chapeau-noir
Right. There's little mystery to search optimization. eBay is an electronic store front and it would be foolish to not expect eBay to produce search results that are customized to the user logged into the session.
I've seen posts here complaining about the eBay algorithm and blaming it for loss in sales. I've also watched some YouTube videos on eBay sellers offering advice on how to appease the algo to ensure that eBay sends traffic to your listings.
Twitter, for example, has some obvious manipulation of how it presents information. And while it is somewhat mysterious on how it works, there are sites you can view to see if you've been Shadow Banned, deboosted etc.
I just don't see much evidence this type of manipulation on eBay outside of ordering search results. And this programmatic manipulation is usually circumvented by users savvy enough to sort search results by highest or lowest price+shipping.
It would be interesting if eBay turned a customized instance of AI like ChatGPT into its search. I'm sure we're not far away from that happening. If you've spent any amount of time with ChatGPT, you'd know the technology exists that can really blur the lines between human and artificial intelligence. But I just don't see any clear cut examples of it on eBay.
chapeau-noir
·3 years agoThe rush to be 'first' in TechBro Land has resulted in some very flawed rubbish - there is no blur.
rfmtm
·3 years agoEbay search manipulation is evident in every search you do. Whether due to some constantly changing algorithm or the new AI ebay is touting, search results rarely only return results specific to your search parameters or even consistently for the same parameters.
Search filters, like "low to high", actually make some listings disappear, even when they are the lowest priced. I have supplied ebay techs with repeatable results demonstrating this, but they never responded that it was a glitch, so apparently it is done on purpose. Even changing the order of the same search words results in different results.
What's next, "fuzzy logic" searches to further frustrate both buyers and sellers?
bamorris
OP3 years agoAI seems to be the latest buzzword in Silicon Valley. I'd bet they start replacing chat agents with chat bots. I was unaware of eBay already touting AI, but it doesn't surprise me.
I would like to see some examples of the search manipulation where items are "shadow banned" from the results.
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoAI seems to be the latest buzzword in Silicon Valley.
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Not much on "tech" but seems like Al has been present from the start.
Is that not how things work?
How would eBay work without Al?
Wasn't aware that it has just become the "latest".
Seems that is what it has always been about.
replacing chat agents with chat bots ? Now I get it. this just a entertainment thread.
bamorris
OP3 years agoI think AI is different than traditional programs or applications. Or algos as discussed in this thread.
Have you used ChatGPT? https://chat.openai.com
Sign in and ask it to "Describe a catalytic converter in the voice of a valley girl". Or substitute valley girl for pig latin.
Ask it to write a small script for you in Visual Basic script, BASH, Perl, or any language you prefer. "Write a script in BASH that displays the spinning word "eBay"".
Start a new chat and tell it about one of your pets, or try to engage it in some innocuous conversation about yourself.
The days of human customer service agents are numbered.
AI seems different than what we traditionally think of as software, programs, algorithms or scripts.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·3 years agoCan we tell it "Please re-code Wordpress from start to finish as it's Pig." LOL.
Response: "Please step into the Transmat machine so as we can microwave you on high for 45 minutes."
And yes... Artificial Intelligence is up and coming moving at high speed which is a good thing because humanity around the world definitely seems to be sliding backwards... I call it Artifecal Untelligence. 🤣
mmadigan
·3 years ago" I would like to see some examples of the search manipulation where items are "shadow banned" from the results"
I just searched in the auction format for county history in the books category. With the best match setting I received 524 results when I changed to rank by highest price I was shown 450. If I change to lowest they showed 254 results with a disclaimer saying they were not showing all the listings to see al click the link Clicking the link showed 450.
I have no ideas if the missing listings are due to being "shadow banned" or being a duplicate listing. I have never bother to determine which listings are missing.
When I limit the search to book over $200, best match shows 20 while price shows 19.
When I limit the search to book under $10, best match shows 121 while price shows 89.
evry1nositswindy
·3 years ago@mmadigan The small differences are pretty easy to explain--a sponsored item is shown at least twice on a page, more if there are multiple pages. Multiple people sponsoring items + more duplicates.
I just sold an item that I have had listed for 2 years. It wasn't hidden because somebody found it!
redlinear
·3 years agoI sold 4 things that I've had listed for 2 yrs. All in the same day, to different buyers. Happens couple times a week here. But the real head scratcher is.......Those four items were listed on the same day.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoI'd like to see evidence of these "thousands of algorithms that do thousands of things
algorithm: "a process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations, especially by a computer."
Best match is an algorithm.
The fraud detection system has an algorithm.
The counterfeit detection system has an algorithm.
The seller rating evaluation system is an algorithm.
The service metrics system is an algorithm.
The listing renewal system is an algorithm.
The prohibited listing detection system is an algorithm.
The system that detects bad buyers and NARUs them is an algorithm.
Every bot on eBay is an algorithm.
I'm not sure that search optimization really qualifies as this ominous "algorithm".
Just using the phrase "the ominous algorithm" indicates the writer does not understand what an algorithm is or how a website like eBay operates.
monica-sells
·3 years agoI am just getting a front row seat to watch all the conspiracy theorists come out of the shadows....
m60driver
·3 years agoAlas, Ebay is never specific about its search algorithms so those of us in the peanut gallery are forced to speculate about those specifics as such speculation is at the core of human nature . That is why we have religions and cargo cults. But yea, it is often very entertaining.