so upset and want everyone to be aware ...
I sold an item (japenese porcelain bowls), when the buyer received the item, much to my surprise she filed a claim of Defective (they had 'bruises), and wanted a full refund. she sent pictures that were my listing pictures and I could tell they were taken from her phone. I had sent her a message asking what she meant by 'bruised' and she stated there was no more to be said, it is what she observed. I contacted ebay and they said I had to wait out the 5 day period. I felt bad (now I feel naïve) and offered her a refund and she refused. THEN I went onto her ebay store and saw MY pictures listed on her site, with a description that the items were very beautiful and in 'excellent' condition. I reported her to ebay, and I also put in a report to ask them to take off my pictures. It looks like she may be doing this to others as well. its not the point of her reselling an item she bought (3x's more than she paid) but it is the fact she asked me for a full refund that makes me mad (furious).
any advise as to how to let others know about this scammer?
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoupdate- I won my appeal and kept the payment for the items- I had to liquidate some of my items, so I took this set (along with other items) to my local auctioneer- and got what the set was worth. With that said, I am liquidating more (due to health issues) so I can close my store. Please pass my info along so I can close quickly. Thanks to all, it was really fun while it lasted!!!
ckimodog
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds
Congrats to you friend! Thank you for following up with such good news. So many people here who open threads do not.
All the best!
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoGREAT NEWS! I was told by CS to let the time run out for returning funds and file an appeal, so I did - and I WON! they also took my listing off her site. I am amazed!
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoAmazing! I would probably have told you not to risk that, but I'm glad it worked out! Maybe I'm just too pessimistic!
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoI think it has to do with how you appeal, they are very tunnel vision. I said she used the product - she opened the box, listed the items, so she 'used the product' when she listed it. apparently that was good enough. It wasn't about the money, it was principal.
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds I'm really happy for you. This is nice news.
gloryglorygifts
·2 years agoThat's great news! Congrats!
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoitems were returned today, I opened the box and to my surprise it was all there and not broken. she didn't pack it as safely as I shipped it to her, I think she was hoping something would break to justify her return. I called ebay and they said to release her funds - ok, but she still has the listing on her ebay site. everyone here was correct - ebay does not stand for the seller and doesn't do anything about scammers. so thank you to everyone who posted - I received very good advise here.
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds Victory! Congrats!
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoI'm glad you got your items and in the same condition as sent.
As for her listing that's still up, that's not your concern. If it sells and she has to cancel for OOS, it'll be a ding on her account.
gloryglorygifts
·2 years agoNow block her, so she can't use you to dropship!!
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoit looks like my items were shipped back to me as of today - but they are still on her site....
a_c_green
·2 years agoWell, that's her problem. 😉 Hopefully you will receive back what you sold. Keep us posted!
fern*wood
·2 years agoSourcing products to sell can be difficult, but this method is ridiculous.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoAnybody ever get items returned ?
luckythewinner
·2 years agoany advise as to how to let others know about this scammer?
I think at last count there were 135 million buyers on eBay. The chances of one individual figuring out how to notify the correct sellers about the correct buyers are very small.
And any system anyone devised to create a system to accomplish this would also enable bad actors to report innocent buyers, either maliciously or to reduce competition.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years ago135 million buyers and I found the needle in the haystack!
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoTrust me, with that many buyers (allegedly) there's way more than ONE needle to be found.
antflan77
·2 years agoOMG! Someone please update me! LOL
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoOMG! now the "B" is sending me a screen shot of my listing...does she think that is returning my item???
is this harassment?
a_c_green
·2 years agoGiven that you've posted no fewer than three laughing emojis here, I'm gonna say that No, it's not harassment.
Entertainment, maybe... 🙂
Anyway, continue to not respond. I'm thinking this return is going to time out on your behalf.
Just to be complete, though: We have seen stories here in the past about buyers who return something out of the blue, long after their Not As Described case has been closed out in the seller's favor. In such cases, the seller is not technically obligated to refund anything at that point, but I think popular opinion has been that if the item is in good shape otherwise, and can be relisted, then the seller should refund the original purchase price, but not the Shipping cost (assuming that the listing was not a Free Shipping item).
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoOMG! now the "B" is sending me a screen shot of my listing...does she think that is returning my item??? 😂😅😂 is this harassment?
wastingtime101
·2 years agoIn what context?
Did she send the screenshot through eBay messages out of the blue? Was there any text or just the screenshot?
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoshe just sent me an ebay message with a screen shot of my listing. she is crazy
wastingtime101
·2 years agoDon't respond.
a_c_green
·2 years agoAs above; there is nothing to respond to. You have sent the Return label, so now you just maintain radio silence until her return time period expires.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoLOL
I would respond "Yes, that is what you need to return to get a refund".
pastcache
·2 years agoThey could have at least given you credit for the sale and original purchase price as done elsewhere.
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds Have you been in touch with this other seller? Wonder if they got a return request, as well.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoI don’t know how to search for them to ask
a_c_green
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds : If you look at the current listing (which will pop up if you do a search for "Eternal Living Enameled 13" Cast Iron Baking Pan") (be sure to include the Double Quotes on each end of the search text), you can see the original seller's ID in the screenshot of the listing she purchased last August and is now reusing.
She left Positive feedback for that seller: "Nice piece." That doesn't mean that she didn't try to return it as well, of course...
pastcache
·2 years agoAlready done, they have reported.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoso that makes 2...how about the wig person ?
pcobra93
·2 years agoPeople need to STOP refunding without a return!! This is creating a whole new level for scammers. Eat the return cost if need be as it is a write off. Half the time or more they WON'T send the item back because they are SCAMMING you. They know how to use ebay's ridiculous MBG policies against sellers. Yes, you may get a rock back but at least make them work for their scam....and if they do commit fraud and send back something else always report them to Ebay, THEIR local police (file online report) and any others that may apply. Enough reports to a local PD and they may pay the person a visit.....especially in smaller towns,
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoI spoke to ebay today and they confirmed they are looking into this. 😅 they also told me to file a claim with them for refund fraud but I have to wait until the listing time is over. then the person told me the return time is 10 days, but the buyer can request an additional 5 days if needed. WHAT THE .... ???
I am finding ebay does not support the seller - and I do not like the fact that they hold my money and allow her to list my items.
it is taking all I have not to respond to her -
itsjustasprain
·2 years agoWhat she is doing with listings of her own is irrelevant to your case here. (While I know it is really unlikely - she COULD be selling her own set of bowls and simply using your listing photos instead of her own.)
As I understand the facts so far - she has opened a Not As Described claim on your sale and (this is the important part) you have now sent her a Return label to ship them back. She has a deadline for when she has to do this. If she misses that deadline the case will close in your favor. You will not have to refund and you will eventually be credited for the unused Return label.
I suggest that you stop talking to that thoroughly useless Customer Support as the reps you have talked to so far have made no sense and in some details they appear to be either making stuff up as they go along or simply misunderstanding what you are describing to them.
The important thing is that you have replied within the claim to say that you want the items back before refunding and that you have sent a Return label for that. NOW you can wait to see what happens next as you have put the ball in her court.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoI think she is now 'baiting" me to see what I am doing.
inhawaii
·2 years agoWhat a rotten thing to do.
I believe in karma!
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoOMG...the nerve of some people! I just got a feedback from my thief! below is what she said...anyone think I should reply??? ebay is still holding my money and waiting for her to return it!
"Though I could be described as a disappointing buyer…..This seller was more than gracious, from a situation that could have gone any other way… Thank you very kindly"
fern*wood
·2 years agoDid she sell them?
wastingtime101
·2 years agoNope. Her listing is live in the Asian Antiques > China category even though her title says Japanese rice bowls. She's using odd grabs of the OP's original listing - 2 out of the 3 are awkward photos taken of her monitor and not actual screenshots. She's asking a very high price. I don't see her selling them with that listing.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agothese bowls were hand painted from Japan! if someone buys can they ask for a refund because she listed them as from china?
broto_64
·2 years ago"Someone" can open a return for "Item Not as Described" because the sky is blue but most definitely for reason of China vs Japanese.
That is possible, they do walk among us. People with severe mental disorders such as bipolar or borderline, maybe off their meds or self-medicating or simply no meds at all, who knows but I've ran into a few like this over the years (both in the real world and possibly here)... That said compassion may be in order, it could be an elderly person suffering from an onset of dementia. Don't get me wrong, I do believe you need to be made whole in this transaction but don't assume your buyer is necessarily doing this maliciously, they may not be able to help it...
Hopefully she sends those bowls back, unharmed, and after you refund that will basically be the end of it.
Keep us updated.
evelyb30
·2 years agoGood. Grief. There may not be that many whoopsiedoodles out there, but they always seem to find a way to make life worse for the rest of us. I hope it closes out without further incident, but otherwise... what Bronto said.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoAssuming she's opened a claim I would definitely send the label. You don't want to allow her to game the system and keep the items AND get her money back.
evelyb30
·2 years agoThe game is she buys an item for $dollars and lists it herself for $dollarsx3. If she sells it, she probably drops the claim. If it doesn't sell quickly enough, she returns it and gets her money back. Or the seller just tells her to keep it and she can resell at her leisure and the item is a freebie. It must be a variant on the old game of trying to sell it for more money yourself, and returning for full refund if you can't.
gloryglorygifts
·2 years agoThis is the second thread like this I've seen in the last few months. As I said on the other one, I guess the return is her plan B if she/he can't sell it. It stinks.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agothank you, I sent her a label. we will see ???
a_c_green
·2 years agoYes. When you respond to the claim by choosing the option to have the item returned before you refund, you put the ball in her court. I forget how many days she has to use that label (probably someone else here will know), but if she fails to respond by shipping it back before her deadline to do so, the case will be closed in your favor.
If it does arrive back at your place and eBay detects from the tracking that it has been delivered, I think you have three days to "evaluate" the item before refunding, but unless there is something majorly wrong with it, I would hit the Refund button as soon as you've opened it and verified that it's yours. (If it isn't, or there is any other surprise in the returned box, update us here first.)
antflan77
·2 years agoWouldn't it be great if somebody purchased the item from the scammer (for 5x cost) and then didn't pay them and in the meantime the return timed out?
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoHow long do you have before you have to pay??? This has me so upset I am selling off my store and going some where else to sell. Pay all these “charges and fees†and don’t get backed up!!! Guess that’s what they mean by customers always right!!!
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years agoIs anyone willing to take one for the team?
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoThat's the risk they're taking for sure.
gloryglorygifts
·2 years agoGood luck!
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoIf that's her game, she (the buyer) isn't playing right. If it was really her intent to try to flip for 3x the price she paid, she wouldn't have opened a claim until her 30-day MBG was running out.
(What I find interesting is that the buyer-reseller doesn't show the picture that shows the chip. Hmmm.)
oaktoncardinal
·2 years agoAnd the Buyer wasted no time in getting them listed on 4/4.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoEXACTLY...I guess I am too honest for this 'game'
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoI just chatted with ebay for the 3rd time. they said I had 3 days to contact the buyer, which I did and now since she posted the items for sale, the 'protection' now falls under Sellers protection instead of buyers. I offered her a discount to keep the items and she refused. and they just told me they do not condone this type of conduct. I have to wait 5 days instead of 3 because 2 days fall on a weekend. I also was given 4 options under the refund claim. 1 - send a label for return of the item, 2 - give refund let them keep the item, 3- offer them a discounted refund 4 - send them a message. I chose options 4 and 3.
NOW ebay states since I did what I was supposed to and she has the products listed for sale, after 3 days (5) I can send her a label and wait another 10 days for the item to be returned (with weekends its 14 days) OR get them involved and they "have a conversation with both seller & Buyer to resolve the issue. I am not too happy with their process OR having a 'conversation' with someone who has proven to be unethical.
I have read everyone's comments and I appreciate this greatly. what I am hearing is sellers really have no options or support from ebay and basically to send her a label. I think I am going to go with that option...that seems to be the more favorable for me. It's not a high ticket item, so what really ticks me off is they freeze my money for almost a month while she posts it on her site for sale and makes triple.
I appreciate everyone's input.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds wrote:
“…I just chatted with ebay for the 3rd time. they said I had 3 days to contact the buyer, which I did and now since she posted the items for sale, the 'protection' now falls under Sellers protection instead of buyers.â€
It is quite alarming to hear some of the damaging advice eBay has offered you. At this point, i would not trust their poorly-trained wreck of a Customer Service department. You are much safer taking advice from the experienced sellers here in the forum.
As you are now aware, seller protections are very limited on eBay, and virtually none exist for a Not As Described case. In these circumstances, the only way for a seller to ultimately prevail is to send the shipping label, offer the refund when the returned item arrives, and then (carefully) appeal the judgement eBay made. It’s completely backwards of course, but it’s the way eBay handles the matter.
Below is the link to the appeal process. eBay may ask you if you wish to appeal, but do not let them open it. There are a few things you need to do to have all your ducks in a row first.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-outcome-case-seller?id=4369
When reporting a buyer, a stronger case can be made by naming the violated policy and state the specific action that the buyer has made . In this case it is the Abusive Buyer policy that applies. The specific actions the buyer committed were these: 1) made a false claim, 2) misused the returns process, 3) misused buyer protection. See policy link below:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/abusive-buyer-policy?id=4374
Be sure to reference the item number of the buyer’s listing of your item on their selling page when appealing. That is evidence of their fraudulent activities.
The buyer has to return something to you in order to get the refund. If they return anything but your item, then they would have used the mail to perpetrate fraud, which is a federal offense. Should that happen, then i would make a report online to the Postal Inspectors and include the report number and a copy of your statement in your appeal.
If you need any more assistance, just ask here in the forum. Good luck to you, and hope everything gets resolved to your benefit.
a_c_green
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds : I'm sorry, but what you're being told is simply gobbledygook and nonsense. What the buyer is doing with your items at this time does not have a bearing on the case that she opened with you. You need to respond where and when needed and not let the case time out without your response.
Right now, from what I have read, you have exchanged some messages with her, but you have not responded through the claim process to choose to either refund her without requiring a return, or to request the item's return before refunding.
Obviously you're not planning to refund her outright, so you need to make the choice of requesting the item's return first. That sends her a label for her to use on the return package, and starts the clock on her to get it in the mail.
If her deadline times out, the case will be closed in your favor and you will not need to refund. You will not be charged for the return label if it is not used.
So if you have not yet formally requested (via the on-line claim) to have the item returned before refunding, do that now. Don't let yourself get distracted by any attempts of hers to resell it herself. Focus on meeting your deadline for responding to the Not As Described claim, and keep us updated. Good luck.
itsjustasprain
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds : If she has filed a claim then you need to respond through the claim. I know you said you offered a refund and she refused but it sounds like you were just doing that through messaging. If she has filed a claim then you have two choices - (1) refund and let her keep the item or (2) refund after the item has been returned to you. That generates a return label for her. If she does not use it you are not billed for the label.
You have to choose one of those two responses. If you do not respond and instead wait out 5 days (for what to happen exactly?) then Ebay will close the claim in her favor. At that point you will have the worst possible outcome: she gets to keep the item and you have to refund in full including the Final Value Fees. (If you refund the buyer via either of the two options you are given then eBay will return the FVFs themselves.)
onlinecentral
·2 years agoThe fact that the items you previously owned are listed for sale indicates that your buyer is CONFIDENT that you will not handle the Return Case in way that will benefit you. The buyer will ask eBay to Step-In or else let the case Time-Out in her favor. 'Favorable rulings' by customer service have known to get overturned. Issue the return label ASAP.
lonebuck-books
·2 years agoIt is also proof that it is a premeditated case of fraud. If you used the postal service, I would file a postal fraud report and let her know that you did and what to expect. If there is one group worse than the IRS to get on the radar of, it is the USPS fraud division. They can literally turn her life upside down.
ten_o_nine
·2 years ago@gramsclosetfinds
I think I know who you're taking about, she did the same to me, but there may be more of them shameless sellers.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agowhat did you do? did you report her? did you give her a refund?
downunder-61
·2 years ago''and offered her a refund and she refused'' - tuff, this is not how the MBG works
Do NOT refund unless an INAD case is opened, accept return and send return label and wait until you get the item back before you refund.
If they can not prove return eBay should (should) find in your favour.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoWas it item 355345387126? The bowl with the pineapple is chipped even though listing says no chips. If the buyer returns the items, make sure that info is called out when you relist the lot.
There was a time when a buyer listed something they purchased from you, and you could prove it was the same item, it would invalidate their buyer protections. I do not know if that policy is still in place as I haven't seen it discussed in several years - and it was an unpublished policy we only knew about from an eBay rep on this forum.
Did you alert the eBay CS you spoke with that the buyer listed the same item for sale on their account? If the answer is yes, and they still told you to wait 5 days, then they are not applying those protections. Perhaps they don't exist anymore.
eBay will expect you to either send a prepaid shipping label or send a refund. If you do neither, eBay will generally step in and force the refund from your account.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoWasting time - there were no chips on any of the bowls, they are hand painted from Japan and some of the paint was on the edge of the 'pineapple' bowl, which in the pictures may have looked like a chip. AND she re-listed the items (using my pictures) stating they are all in 'excellent' condition. I appreciate your advise and feedback. I did contact ebay and they suggested I file a complaint against this buyer, which I did. they also stated that if she re-listed as 'excellent' condition they would handle the claim after the 5 days. left me under the impression that the buyer protection was invalid due to her relisting the items, but since you have mentioned this, I am going to contact them again and ask.
thank you for all your help
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoDont believe what CS told you! - You WILL lose this case plain and simple if it is an "Item Not as Described" case - You will also get a defect if you allow ebay to handle the return for you - Really, its no surprise at all that CS is untrained and constantly provides bad information - In my opinion just about everything about the current state of this site follows suit.
My guess is she has a another set that is damaged she plans on returning to you - Wish you the best with this. I would advise to get used to this kinda stuff, or come up with a new game plan as we did because surely scamming here get lots worse before it gets any better, if it ever does, in my most humble opinion of course...
wastingtime101
·2 years agoAh, got it! Was looking out for you in case you did get the items back to resell. 🙂 In photos it has the appearance of a chip, but I could see how it could be black paint since the background in those photos was black it blended.
Good luck with this and let us know what you decide to do and how it works out.
albany_sellers
·2 years agoThey are lying to you. The way they will handle the claim is by automatically ruling against you, and then tell you how it's the cost of doing business. They tell you anything you want to hear just to make you go away. Do not trust anything the reps tell you.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoI'm seeing a chip also. The following pictures (#5 from your listing) and a cropped enlargement of the same area sure look like a chip:
a_c_green
·2 years agoI must respectfully disagree with my learned colleagues here. 😉 Other photos in that listing show an outside pattern on the bowl consisting of dark, black-ish paint strokes extending all the way up to the rim in one or two places, and I think what we're seeing is a small bit of dark paint extending over the rim in that spot. Certainly the OP would know about a chip of that size if that was actually one.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoYes that is correct, thank you. Also everyone… her listing states “excellent condition†so that proves she put in a fraudulent refund claim- I also told this to eBay and filed a report against her. Yesterday they told me I could take it one step further- I CAN file a consumer protection complaint with our AG in PA, but I really do not want to take it that far, I just want my money. So does anyone think I should contact her and try to reason with her???
a_c_green
·2 years agoNo. She has already filed the Not As Described complaint, and you have already responded with a request for return before refunding, and you have sent a Return label for her to do that, so now you wait for her to miss her return deadline and have the claim closed out in your favor. There's no need for (or advantage to) muddying things up by continuing to communicate with her.
wastingtime101
·2 years ago@albertabrightalberta @a_c_green I guess I should repeat what I said earlier when the OP said it was black paint and not a chip?
Ah, got it! Was looking out for you in case you did get the items back to resell. 🙂 In photos it has the appearance of a chip, but I could see how it could be black paint since the background in those photos was black it blended.
I was not defending this buyer at all; I was looking out for the seller in case they got the items back and wanted to resell.
Not that it matters since the OP said the dish is fine, but I was looking at the 2 images that showed the bowl upside-down with no brush strokes extending to the rim.
In the photo you're looking at Alberta, I took the part you highlighted on the left to be paint. I took much smaller part on the right to be a chip, which the OP says is not a chip.
To answer @gramsclosetfinds above question that asked, "these bowls were hand painted from Japan! if someone buys can they ask for a refund because she listed them as from china?"
Yes, if sold your buyer's buyer could file a not as described claim since the category and description say both "antique" and "made in China." Your buyer did not set their listing up for success.
a_c_green
·2 years agoYes, I saw those also, but I assume (again, since the OP has said so) they're not chips but wrinkles in the black cloth underlaying the bowls in the photo. I shoot my own listings on a 50% gray cloth background, and I occasionally have to smooth down a wrinkle that's blocking the edge of whatever it is that I'm photographing.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI don't think it's the cloth - I added a photo to my above post where the same blip shows with the bowl right-side-up @a_c_green . But since the OP said it's a drop of paint I took their word for it.
gloryglorygifts
·2 years agoI would take screenshots of your sold listing and their current listing and contact ebay for business on Facebook, Insta or Twitter and report them. That's totally against ebay policy! I like the Facebook the best. Here is their link https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness. Good luck!
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoI read the policies and it stated I could ask her to take my pictures off her listing. I did that today. thank you for your feedback - much appreciated.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoBlock this buyer immediately from future purchases.
I am surprised a buyer would act this way when they are a seller as well.
I am always afraid of "monkey see monkey do" thing. Guess this person doesn't know any better.
"filed a claim". Buyer can do a claim and return items and ask for a refund. And you can do the shipping label.
I would do it in the eBay claim time frame before eBay refunds buyer. No returns does not mean no returns.
I would not email this person anymore.
Photos, video and emails really don't mean I lot.
Buyers and sellers can make their own judgements on buying and selling to that person.
Not much you can do about it.
Important thing is take care of the claim of the buyer.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoI blocked her. thank you for your feedback - I appreciate it.
chariot_badges
·2 years agoI have a pretty extensive list in my BBL's.
Anybody want to trade?
A copy of mine, for a copy of yours?
Ebay won't protect us - we have to protect ourselves.
Show me yours and I will show you mine.
gramsclosetfinds
OP2 years agoright now I only have one, but would love to see yours - and I would give you my one.