So aggravating ebay keeps letting buyers lie during the returns process.
Summary: A participant expressed frustration with eBay, discussing issues with dishonest seller descriptions and problematic returns. Another participant noted the lack of appeal fees for 'Not As Described' cases. tobaccocardyahoo explained that eBay operates based on legal advice, emphasizing protections for buyers and the difficulties sellers face online, suggesting that selling in-person might be preferable for those unable to handle these challenges. There was also a discussion about the reasons some sellers do not accept returns.
Recently had a buyer open an item not as described case and this was their reasoning...
Return Reason
Doesn't match description or photos
Comments
Do not like the tee shirt material.
Has nothing to do with the item not matching the description. Buyers know they can lie selecting a dishonest reason for the return forcing sellers to pay for return shipping.
I called ebay twice, reported the buyer, and they still sided with them. Only thing left to do now is start an appeal and i guarantee 100% it will be closed in the buyers favor.
25 comments
gurlcat
·1 month agoOLD THREAD
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 month agoEbay does not have a court or judges. It has lawyers and their lawyers advise them of the protections the law gives buyers. The lawyers also have advised them as to how to write the agreement we sell under in a way that allows Ebay to make decisions on buyer disputes, which do not require they find the truth.
Unless they were to pay for all of the items that a buyer claims are INAD, they could not protect the sellers, and that would probably lead to an Ebay fee hike. I do not want an Ebay fee hike.
No other site I have sold on protected me from INADs, including my own. The credit card issuers are as likely as Ebay to decide in favor of the buyer.
If you cannot afford to deal with these very real occurances, you should sell only in person.
Many people who sell online do so for a very short time because they cannot tolerate the realities of doing what is effectively mail order business.
You have sold an impressive number of items and should have developed some tolerance by now.
kensgiftshop
·1 month agoWhy don't you accept returns?
I've never understood why a seller wouldn't accept returns.
shebatripp6rdq
·1 month agoSeller says item is in perfect and mint condition.
Royal doulton figurine had head obviously glued back on.
After looking carefully at picture you can see. Why lie? Been a buyer for 26 yrs never a problem. Recently two bad experiences. 380 plus items. I have never left a bad review or received one. Very disappointed in ebay lately.. down right lying
simply-the-best-for-you
·9 months agoHaving a No Returns policy is not pointless in the least. You can still decline properly filed returns & believe me, there are buyers who do file them properly. You only cannot decline the ones that lie & open a SNAD or the ones that are a legit SNAD.
Not liking a fabric & sizing it NOT a legitimate return in CSA provided that the info is correct in the listing. For example if the t-shirt is described as 100% cotton knit, it's not legitimate to return it as a NAD, b/c it's exactly as described. If you don't like it, that's fine, but open it properly as a REMORSE return. The ones I have a problem with are the ones eBay says is not a SNAD (color & smell) but then doesn't back us up if they open it as a SNAD.
Almost every CSA seller I know is No Returns, self included & I wouldn't have it any other way. BTW, I maybe get 1-2 requests a year to return. The times I've tried a returns allowed for 30 day policy, I had so many fake SNAD's to get the shipping on my dime, that I was close to losing my status. No Returns is 100% the way to go IMO. I absolutely wish it included proveable fake SNADS like OP's & the things that eBay has repeatedly told us are not SNADS, but I appreciate having the option. I have not experienced (in almost 30 years) that people file SNADs if you are No Returns. Sorry @yo_baby_sup I feel your pain, but as you know it's the way it is & is VERY frustrating!
ETA: There is NO $20 charge for a dispute, that person is mistaken. That's only for chargebacks & only for a specific set of circumstances, which involve you losing the chargeback. If you win the chargeback, there is no charge.
luckythewinner
·9 months agoBuyers know they can lie selecting a dishonest reason for the return forcing sellers to pay for return shipping.
eBay knows that buyers who lose eBay disputes can just turn around and file payment disputes.
ccomic
·9 months agoI don't understand why so many sellers assume buyers buy things just so that they can return them for break even (minus gas to get the post office) simply to frustrate sellers. I'm sure there are plenty of remorse returns masquerading as INAD, but I imagine that eBay also tracks this and eventually sanctions buyers that return too many things, just like I've read can happen on Amazon.
gurlcat
·9 months agoI wouldn't be surprised if eBay does have a secret limit to a buyer's returns frequency (just total numbers regardless of reasons), but I know for a fact that sellers reporting them for abusive returns is tallied, and can result in them losing their return privilege, or even get their account shut down if they get numerous abusive buyer reports in quick succession.
@yo_baby_sup At any point did you report this buyer for abusive buyer behavior? I'm not talking about on the phone, I mean an official report filed on the website? Do you know how to do that?
inhawaii
·9 months agoLying should not be allowed on ebay.
tobaccocardyahoo
·9 months agoLie detectors do not work. There are no long distance lie detectors.
Knowing that fact, sellers need to define their return policies and return expectations. This also requires know their products and customers, and not offering products which will boomerang.
yo_baby_sup
OP9 months agomy return policy is defined, and my items are accurately described. if you dont like something thats not an item defect by ebays own item not as described policy. its a personal preference, buyers remorse. just like item doesnt fit is not a legitimate reason for opening item not described cases but ebay allows buyers to skirt around that as well.
gurlcat
·9 months agoIt definitely is tragic that eBay creates the illusion that sellers can define their own return policy; I've always felt that. You think you're running a garage sale or your own brick and mortar store, but really you're Walmart or Target; you will take anything back for any reason, true or false, and you will refund the buyer.
Now that you're aware of this fact, and see the pointlessness of having a "No returns" policy, maybe it's time you consider the perks of having buyer-pays returns: if they choose a remorse reason from the menu, they will automatically be responsible for paying for the return label. Or better yet, offer FREE returns. Yes, that would include remorse returns -BUT then you can withhold up to 50% of the refund if the item is returned in worse condition than you sent it, and you will also get a lot more sales, because many buyers won't buy from anyone who doesn't offer free returns.
inhawaii
·9 months agoThank you, but you are telling us what we already know.
12345jamesstamps
·9 months agoDon't do an appeal...Some sellers get charged an additional $20...and still lose.
Calling eBay customers reps cannot do anything to change anything...
slippinjimmy
·9 months agoThat is only for a Payment Disputes. There are no "fees" to file an appeal (win or lose) on a MBG Not As Described decision.
yo_baby_sup
OP9 months agowrong. there is no charge for an appeal. I got a rep on the phone and they credited me for the purchase price and original shipping.
kensgiftshop
·9 months agoBuyers will do that when they are not happy with an item and the seller has a no return policy.
kibble-net
·9 months agoSh*t happens. This is what we in the industry call a "bug on the windshield".
Block, report, and move on. Yeah it sucks, but you can't control this - so why let it ruin your day?
At the end of the year (which isn't far away!) do the math and find out how much this has costed you for the entire year, and divide it by how many sales you've done. If it's a big problem, take that amount and add it as a handling fee. Then the extra 5 cents you collect per order (or whatever number you come up with) will make up for the next "bug on the windshield".
yo_baby_sup
OP9 months agoIf I spent my time filing the complaint they should have been able to read the "do not like fabric" comment and see that is not a legitimate reason to open an item not as described case. lol "we in the industry", im in the "industry" and dont subscribe to that. I dont lie in my listings I expect the same from my buyers. I expect a platform to back their own buyer terms and then at a minimum catch that in the appeals process which they failed to do. I did call them after the appeal and got them to credit me for the sale. A little insider tip for you from someone "in the industry".
gurlcat
·9 months agoCongratulations (I mean that sincerely), but a real insider tip would come from someone who is actually on the inside (of eBay, as in, an eBay employee). And what eBay employees have disclosed numerous times is that courtesy refunds like you got for this shirt are limited, and at the discretion of eBay. There is nowhere in the policy pages you can look up to see how many courtesy refunds you can get, per X amount of time, and that's for reasons I would think are obvious, but I'll explain if you like.
The reason it's important for you to be aware of this fact is: You WILL continue to get dishonest buyers, and you may even get some that are not only dishonest but downright scammy, and even they will succeed if they understand how to work eBay policies just right. So you should think very carefully about when to fight like heII and when not to, because after you've already won "enough" battles, you won't win any more, and you may find future ones far more worthy of fighting, but it will be for nothing.
I have no idea what shirt this return was for, but let's say it was $25. And I don't know if you've received it back yet, but let's say you have, and it was in the same condition as you sent it, ready to relist and resell. So as of this point, eBay has literally GIVEN you $25 for absolutely nothing. -You started out with a shirt, ended up with the same shirt and $25. Now, picture if today somebody buys one of THESE shirts:
..... and then after it gets delivered to the buyer, they open an INAD return, claiming there's a hole in it. But when you receive it back, there really is no hole because they lied, just to get the free return label. So, would THIS be the return to fight over, because it's a higher-dollar amount and the buyer obviously lied? If you're thinking "Yes" think again. Because this is still not the worst case scenario. -What if the shirt really does have a hole in it, and you know for a fact it wasn't there when you shipped it, in fact your listing photos show there was no hole in that location. And clearly the buyer either accidentally poked it on something themselves, or purposely slashed it, thinking there had to be some actual damage to do an INAD return. -I had a buyer do that to an expensive pair of designer boots once. Another possibility is the buyer will send back a plain t-shirt, a towel, or some other object, instead of the shirt you sold them.
THAT is the kind of scenario worth fighting, one where you would suffer an actual LOSS, beyond just paying for a return label. But imagine you try to do it, and the employee fielding your appeal is looking at your record, and seeing they just gave you a courtesy refund for this other shirt, only a couple weeks before.
soh.maryl
·9 months agoIn a "he said, she said" situation, which is essentially what this is, eBay has no way to determine who's right and who's wrong, so they usually side with the buyer. But, given your numbers, am certain that you know that.
If you know for 100% sure that an appeal will be closed in the buyer's favor, why bother? You have excellent FB, considering your sales volume, why not just move on?
rugerskick
·9 months agoIt can negatively affect his service metrics. Thats why sellers care. No one else gives if it hurts them.
yo_baby_sup
OP9 months agoits not a he said she said situation. the buyer outed themselves immediately with their own comment. do not like fabric, is not a legitimate reason for filing an item not as described case.
ryry-jj
·9 months agonot liking the fabric I think is a legitimate reason for a return when selling clothing. Apparel is a tough business, you need to cater more to a buyer's likes and dislikes, and when selling/buying on line, they wont know that until they actually try on the item or touch and feel it. Personally, who would every buy clothing on line if you cant simply return it if it does feel right or fit right? And I'm not talking about remorse, I'm talking about the item cant be worn as described. Afterall, the entire point of apparel is to be worn.
Again, apparel is a tough business that needs to accept all return, catch-22 if sellers don't see it this way
gurlcat
·9 months agoI agree 100%. -Also if it doesn't fit well. I don't care how many measurements the seller puts in the listing; just because I'm technically able to get a garment on doesn't mean it will fit RIGHT, and I'm not keeping something I can't wear because it looks like sh on me. I would rather not "have to" lie to do a return, and I'd be fine with paying for return shipping if the seller has buyer-pays returns ..... but if they have "No returns" ...... well, sorry but I'll have to show them that they do indeed have to take a return.