Sending partial refund: how to complicate a previously easy task ....
Sending a partial refund for a Shipping discount was done on one page up until yesterday on my account. Now the process is complicated by making it a multi-page process.
Page 1: This page is only for the Refund amount, the Buyer is their ID, NOT their full name like the old refund page. On this page you enter the amount and then click the Next button at the bottom that turns blue once a value is in the refund field.
Page 2: On this page you select the reason and type a message in the field provided BUT the Buyer on this page on the right is again just their ID, NOT their real name.
Page 3: Here is where you review your Refund ... and oh, the Buyer on the right is again their ID, NOT full name.
Page 4: Your refund is now complete and FINALLY, the Buyer's real name is shown on the right along with their ID (green arrow).
So this was my first time through this new process. It is now a 4 page process instead of two, I will have to remember the Buyer's name BEFORE starting a refund since eBay hides that info now until the end opposed to the old one page process where the Buyer's name was displayed for use in the typing field for a more personalized note. Since none of the pages seem to have a back button I could not go back and correct or change anything.
I am at a loss to explain why the programming department's changes typically mean more steps for simple tasks. The other one that comes to mind is the Feedback flow. We used to be able to get to the full feedback history by simply clicking the FB count number, now that too is a multi-step process.
I just fail to see this (or the Feedback page access) as being any kind of improvement. This is 2024 and making things easier seems to be a lost art for the venue's programmers.
mostlymoms
·2 years agoOK, first time trying this. I am told to go to seller hub, sold, then pull down to send refund option. There is no "send refund" option on my sold items menu. What to do?
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoAre you looking in the menu next to a specific item? Where it says "View Order Details" there is a little carat for a dropdown menu there. If Send Refund doesn't appear, how old is the order?
pjcdn2005
·2 years agoYou may have to scroll down to see the see refund link.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoI just fail to see this (or the Feedback page access) as being any kind of improvement.
@mr_lincoln
That is why eBay likely does not call these sorts of things "improvements" or even "enhancements" anymore in favor of the word "experience" if they call them anything at all!!!! As eBay AI would say....'experience the joy of your new refund (or feedback) journey'. LOL.
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoI just experienced this myself today. Definitely not as good as the old version, but not problematic enough for the way we use it to bother complaining. I would be happy if they changed it back, though.
broto_64
·2 years agoMaybe ebay doesn't want sellers to manually issue shipping discounts, personally I would feel annoyed at a seller for doing things in such an outdated way... Sellers can institute automatic multi-order discounts under business shipping policies, then sellers don't even have to click once, it just gives it to the buyer before they even pay.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@broto_64 Sadly, that will not work either on all multi-item transactions. I have a link to a thread below from yesterday. OP was wondering about eBay adjusting a package size and not just the shipping cost on a multi-item sale. I explained why they cannot do that and why I would not want them to do that. eBay can easily add shipping costs but they cannot add package volumes or know how multiple items will be packed in one box.
One solution is what I do all the time when I buy items from out of state on online auctions and have them shipped in. Example would be a train auction with 400 lots and I win 5. I get a bill for the 5 and pay it. Once they pack the items I get another bill for the shipping cost and pay that. Then they ship.
The problem with eBay allowing that kind of arrangement is their Seller Metrics, those are all about shipping on time and other factors but fail with regard to letting a Seller and Buyer work out a transaction to both party's satisfaction. So what if a Buyer has to wait a little longer for a multiple order to ship? MILLIONS of other Buyers like me do it all the time on other venues. It is only eBay's narrow view and focus on what they perceive to be an enhanced Buying experience that prevents them from letting Sellers work with their Customers to complete a transaction.
Re: Ebay combined a customers order, but had the s... - The eBay Community
broto_64
·2 years agoThat is true, perhaps in light of that it is fair to say ebay's buyer experience doesn't lend itself to certain sales methods such as multi-item purchases. Every venue has its pros and cons, we can chose to work with those or we can try and apply band-aids and try to use work-arounds but ultimately the venue will decide what they will and will not allow.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of ebay's upgrades and enhancements either.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@broto_64
I started Selling 9 years ago ... it became apparent early on that the venue was good at juggling one ball. Not much has changed in that regard over the years. Sure some things have improved but to release any kind of control from the venue to Sellers seems to be something that there is no interest in doing. To me it smacks as a lack of trust. So yes, every venue has its pros and cons and yes, many Sellers try to work within those constraints.
In looking at features that add additional delivery time two come to mind, the Authenticity program and EIS ... yep, BOTH of those features mean an item is shipped to a center that unpacks, inspects, repacks and ships again. Are the forums here being overrun with customers complaining about long deliveries for those features? No, not overrun but yes to some complaining.
So to one of my earlier points, giving Sellers & Buyers the ability to work out combined shipping costs as a separate step after a multiple item purchase is only going to add a little more time for delivery, nothing more.
The issue though is that the Seller would be in control of that and not eBay and therein lies the problem.
quicksilverdiecast
·2 years ago"That is true, perhaps in light of that it is fair to say ebay's buyer experience doesn't lend itself to certain sales methods such as multi-item purchases. Every venue has its pros and cons, we can chose to work with those or we can try and apply band-aids and try to use work-arounds but ultimately the venue will decide what they will and will not allow.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of ebay's upgrades and enhancements either."
You have said a mouthful there! I do not use any of those descriptive words, as it is more like Let's throw it against the wall and see if it sticks...
It starts with what most will understand as the Monkey see Monkey do syndrome....Amazon does something and changes things up(that do work) and ebay has to try to emulate it and ends up causing more issues...
In regards to the "workaround" statement we used to have a great work around, that was even promoted to use when calling in to ebay about an issue....it was called Pay Pal and no matter how badly the issue(s) were the sale could be salvaged by invoicing thru paypal and presto problem solved...seller made the sale and buyer got what he wanted.....but that worked to well and ebay parted company with pp....
There are many changes that have worked and are truly an asset to ebay like the enhanced pictures that show nice big detailed pictures! But when ebay considers the aspect of making a multi item sale ("fair to say ebay's buyer experience doesn't lend itself to certain sales methods such as multi-item purchases.")! I am sorry but that aspect should be at the top of ebay priorities to make it function in a smooth easy to understand process! That is the same thing as saying to both buyer and seller that yes you can buy one item easily, but if you want to buy multiple items we are going to make it difficult to do!!! if not impossible.....who thought this was a good idea?
mcdougle4248
·2 years agoWhat I run into, even with using business policies with a combined flat rate rule and offering a promotional free shipping offer, buyers do not always use the shopping cart. So, when a buyer buys multiple items, each with a separate transaction, they end up overpaying for shipping. I combine their orders on the bulk label page and refund the overpayment of shipping charges after I print the label.
I have never had any indication that the buyers in these situations were annoyed with the refund process that I used. I often receive positive feedback regarding the transactions.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@mcdougle4248
I get comments of thanks for shipping discounts in FB too at times or in an eBay Message. It is simply good business and works towards having repeat customers.
mcdougle4248
·2 years agoI 100% agree.
When the new version of the refund process rolls out on my account I may find myself back here asking
questions, however, I plan to continue using the refund process when the need arises.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@mcdougle4248 I will be looking for the Tell us what you think link the next time I process one ... hope they didn't take that away from us too ...
ihave2manycars
·2 years agoI am convinced that the only reason this has been implemented is to benefit ebay. Not quite sure how, but the only time they make enhancements is to benefit themselves, not the sellers. I think it has to do with the taxes. As one can see from the screenshots, there is no mention of a sales tax refund. eBay is assuming that our collective refunds are for shipping only.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoIn my experience, any refund, even a partial for shipping discount, ebay DOES refund the ST portion of the amount of the refund.
The only time they wouldn't do that is if the buyer was in a state which didn't apply ST at all or ST to the shipping portion.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@ihave2manycars
The programming M.O. has been to add steps to simple processes ... the partial refund flow is just another victim of that process. I liken it to being given "busy work" ... which I don't need.
"Tell us what you think?" ... I use that on a regular basis, hope others will as well. It may or may not make a difference.
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years agoExactly what @mcdougle4248 said, it's how I do most of my combined shipping b/c the vast majority of my buyers are not tech-savvy & don't use the Shopping Cart or use it as a holding place for everything they're interested in, so it won't function the way it was intended. Never once have I had a customer be annoyed, quite the opposite, they tend to be very appreciative.
mcdougle4248
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln
Thank you for the heads-up and screenshots. I still have the previous version on my account and this new version looks, and based on the responses here, sounds overly complicated.
janet9988
·2 years agoAll geared towards making sellers offer free shipping.
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years agoThanks for the heads up, I have't seen this yet, but I do fairly often, since I combine shipping. I may just stop. It's like they totally mucked up Packing Slips, make it much more complicated, resource intensive & lost the functionality that had been there before & so many people loved. So frustrating!
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@simply-the-best-for-you There seems to exist a propensity for complicating simple tasks. I believe eBay has a discount off Retail for shipping which would cut down on some refunds BUT I want to see that discount be over our Commercial rates.
As to packing slips ... okay, I am a little embarrassed here but knowing you I don't think you will be too critical of me LOL. On three accounts here and over 9,000 shipments I have never printed a packing slip ... nope, not a single one. So that's what, about 18 reams of paper I saved???
wastingtime101
·2 years agoIf you ever ship with eBay International Shipping, packing slips are required. They probably don't enforce it, but it's in the policy pages nonetheless. That's pretty much the only time I use packing slips.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@wastingtime101 Hmmm, never saw that ... have shipped less than around 50 items internationally and those were in the early years of selling ...
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln None of eBay's automated options for combining shipping worked for Calculated shipping last time I checked (which admittedly was a long time ago). Also, the majority of my buyers don't use the Shopping Cart when they make multiple purchases & I don't really see that changing.
I am not critical of you. I think packing slips are an individual choice. I have multiple reasons I like to use them. The reams of paper you 'saved' are one of my frustrations. The old packing slips, there was several ways to do them, one of which was a straightforward, 1 click, easy-peasy slip that had just the basics & printed out on a 1/3-1/4 sheet of paper. So, I would get 3-4 packing slips out of 1 sheet. I also used the back of my label paper for it, so it was re-used paper 🙂 It's a shame you don't use them b/c you'd then know that they did the same thing to that process. It's now a lot more complex, no option for the easy simple one anymore, prints minimum 1/2 page & that's with a lot of messing around AND in order to not have the price print (used to be the default, like it should be), you now have to click that the item is a gift, then after you do all that messing around, it does not retain your preferences! This is the 'good' version, 9 months out. When they first implemented it, it was SO BAD it was laughable. I'm sure you can still find my post. It was clearly written by people who didn't understand a packing slip & when it's used. It referred to printing it later in the process, but there was no option to do so. It said there would be a link after you printed your shipping label, but there wasn't. That was my favorite, they thought allowing you to print a packing slip AFTER you'd gone through your whole shipping process made sense. Ummm, a packing slip needs to be done (if you're going to use one) BEFORE you print your shipping label & seal your package. You can't know the weight of the pkg til you're done putting everything in it! Anyway, my point is that just like the FB page & what you're showing here, they did the same thing with Packing Slip system.
I didn't know (or remember) that you were an old techie. As a former Assembler programmer, along with numerous other IT positions, starting back when it was called DP, do a search on Agile Methodology or Agile Project Management. It will explain MUCH of what we're seeing & experiencing daily. Somebody freaking created a methodology that amounts to 'do all the project development steps simultaneously, throw them into production & let your users debug it, don't worry about documentation, testing or user needs, putting in production is the most important'. My DH is still in IT & he told me about it. Yup, someone making millions & selling it to execs as an actual methodology, that amounts to 'throw it against the wall & keep what sticks'. But hey, we can respond to market changes & "pivot" more quickly to "market trends" b/c we do all the steps congruently. Yeah okay, we do none of them well & we don't really test anything, but who cares we're flexible & agile, so we can respond quickly to market, business or user needs. Seriously, read their principles, you will understand a whole lot more about what we're seeing. It is a very widely used project mgmt methodology these days, you see jobs advertised with it all the time, they have their own terminology (I mean I guess they all do), but these are really weird ones (scrum master anyone). Everything that doesn't amt to 'throw 'stuff' into production right away', falls by the wayside as backlog. I've been around in IT long enough to have seen many methodologies come & go, this one scares me. Especially the way it's been so widely accepted in big business.
Disclaimer, IDK for certain that this is what eBay uses, but it's not a stretch based on what we see regularly.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@simply-the-best-for-you
Actually, what you describe makes sense for what is seen here. Only a % of a programming change is completed, nobody thinks about the big picture or a list of "what ifs" that we wind up experiencing and then point out for correction. It's like a game of whack-a-mole ... yes, I am a bit of an older techie, closer to the end of the Baby Boomers than the beginning. More of a user than a programmer. Programmed some machines back in the day but they were finite systems with specific tasks and functions ... very simple stuff. Yep, watched the birth of the computer age right through the Dick Tracy wrist Watch becoming a reality. I've shared with quite a few people that my generation can certainly learn new stuff but we are also tired of learning new stuff. We all grew up on Menu driven programming. The mouse was a great invention for what I do but the touch pad on my laptop serves no purpose ... I would gladly trade it for more storage space LOL!
wastingtime101
·2 years agoIt's no secret around here - we've all noticed that changes are rolled out without considering impact on daily tasks. People making these changes (selling tools especially) clearly do not use the product so they don't know what the impact is until it's launched and complaints roll in.
We may be dismissed as complainers or opposed to change - and I'm sure many do fit that bill - but speaking personally, I am pro change when it makes sense, but I'm anti- loss of functionality and I'm anti- making things less efficient. When I complain it's constructive; it's not for the sake of being negative and it's not because I'm against change.
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years agoI'd bet dollars to donuts they use Agile Methodology, I could verify by looking up job listings, but I'm not gonna take the time. I agree with you though, change is necessary. I know we all hate dealing with it, but it is absolutely a requirement of business. But changing just for the sake of change or "modernizing" is frustrating. Change requirements are in fact part of the reason Agile came into being. As someone who worked most of my life on legacy software (which btw, still runs most Fortune 100 businesses today, despite everyone wanting to make fun of it), part of the problem was that the old methodologies & pre-methodologies, ie; the 'waterfall' methods, took so long, that by the time a project was implemented, it was often obsolete. That was a very real problem. Now the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Another big part of the problem is globally distributed staff. We constantly see things like a screen suddenly in German or frequently, EU format dates in the US product. That kind of stuff is inexcusable IMO.
I **bleep** & moan about change at times, but I definitely know & understand that it is imperative to keep a business running. Not that you were picking on me, just a comment 🙂
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@wastingtime101
We are in agreement here, change that is functional and improves an experience is a good thing but change that doesn't is a bad thing.
ten_o_nine
·2 years agoI don't always test my code.
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years agoI hope that was meant as humor. Either way, it made me laugh!
keziak
·2 years agoI never have printed a packing slip either.
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years agoOk.
the point wasn't whether or not you've printed one. The point was that they mucked that up, just like they mucked this up & the FB screens. It was not meant to be yet another debate on whether or not you use packing slips. Do or don't, IDC, but if you do, the screens got much more complicated & took away functionality. That's the point of the discussion.
rosachs
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln- I must not be on the new refund process yet, but I do recognize the screens you shared.
I've never had an issue with Buyer Name, but now I realize it's a dual screen, dual app issue. I track communications on my SixBit order record, so I've got the order record open on that screen. Refunding I do via a web browser, which opens on my second screen. As soon as I finger a few issues out, the system I'm building will have 4 screens, which allows me to share info even more easily.
Not everyone wants multiple screens, and that's cool - it's a personal choice. An alternate option is one of those really wiiiide screens, where you can fit 2-3 readable windows, side-by-side, and do your multi-screen functions that way.
I guess it's just the geek in me (or is it nerd - I think I qualify for both)... I want my computer to do things I don't want to do, and to help me do the things I have to do more easily. Multi-screen is part of that function for me. There's also another demon running around in my head that says if so-and-so can do it, why can't I? That was why I, at one time, had 3 desktop systems running, and a laptop with a dead screen running as my background update processor for what is now SixBit. The neat part of using the laptop was low power consumption, low heat generation, and built-in battery backup. 🙂 I connected all four systems thru a single Keyboard Video Mouse (KVM) switch. "One monitor/mouse/keyboard to rule them all..." 🙂
-Bob.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@rosachs Okay, what ere Nerd are you?
-My first computer class in high school back in the 70s was a teletype machine with wide carriage tractor paper and a plug in phone modem. We dialed up the local college's computer to log in, Basic was the language we used. We typed and sent the message to the mainframe. It would send back a response. Back and forth it would go. The best computer game back then was called Lunar Landing ... because we walked on the moon in '69 LOL. You were given so much fuel to fire your retro rockets to slow the Lander's decent to the moon in hopes of landing safely so you could have enough fuel to take off assuming you didn't damage or crash the lander. You would send info the mainframe and it would send back your progress. Of all my attempts I only ever survived one landing ...but damaged the lander so badly I couldn't take off and got stuck on the moon ...
-In college I took courses in Fortran and Cobol ... after that I decided I wasn't going to be a programmer, just a user.
-Installed computer scales throughout north America in mainly the food industry as my first long term full-time job out of college.
-My first office computer was an IBM System II (I think that's the correct name) - yep, monochrome screen, no mouse, navigated by keystrokes -- mid-80s
-I have done drafting my entire adult life, purchased AutoCAD LT in 2000 and self taught computer aided drafting via their help video, I already knew how to draw, just needed to learn how to do it electronically.
-Now to the point of all of this (thanks for patiently reading through this LOL). So I have run AutoCAD LT for about 24 years, below is a screen show of the current program on my computer ... there are pull down menus along the top, quick link icons along the bottom right, a custom tool pallet on the left running vertically down the page. Here's the deal after over 20 years 90% of this program is ... the ... exact ... same ... as what I first learned on in 2000. WHY one might ask? Because NONE of those 90 % functions has changed, NO need for them to be changed. Simple tasks made simple and kept simple. I KNOW what good programming is ... when I see a company complicate simple tasks it points to less than adequate programming and programmers not being in touch with Users ...
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI had to do a partial refund last week because buyer missed my sale event by a day and messaged me after purchase so I agreed to give them the discount as a courtesy.
To my dismay, when I applied the partial refund with the new flow, eBay split the refund between item and ship cost. If buyer decides to return for remorse, I have now lost a piece of the shipping. Refund was supposed to be on item price exclusively which was not a problem with the old flow.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoNot to mention that now rather than entering a whole amount and ebay splits it between the items, they now expect the seller to work it out and apply the amounts to individual items.
This is, apparently, their idea of "streamlining". Someone needs to give them a dictionary.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@toomuchstuffagain35 Maybe that will be the next enhancement (opposed to being standard on the older page) and yes, I refunded ALL the shipping on one of the two items because of the flow's deficiency.