Selling traffic down
I've been selling on eBay for many years. The traffic has been cut in half. The fees are going up and traffic going down. Not sustainable for most business. What is eBay doing to help?
119 comments
I've been selling on eBay for many years. The traffic has been cut in half. The fees are going up and traffic going down. Not sustainable for most business. What is eBay doing to help?
ed8108
·4 months agoeBay continues to provide a money back guarantee for buyers to stimulate sales
wwii_classics_and_vintage_history
·4 months agoI agree for the first quarter of 2026 I sold 1500 in profit. Starting Apri 1st 2026, I have had no views and no activity. On the dashboard one metric says decreased by 100%.
yuzuha
·4 months agoI've been trying to work through my backlog of stuff that needs to be listed... I've put up a whole bunch of new listings tonight and already several of them have watchers less than an hour after I listed them, so it seems to me that eBay is working just fine in terms of potential buyers being able to find things.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoLoads of watchers, not much buying is what I've noticed. But that does tell me that items ARE being found in search.
onefootflipper
·4 months agoOriginal poster is not reading any of this, they have not replied once. There is no reason to keep feeding good advice into a black hole.
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoThats a chunk of change for fuel 😮
sakic92710
·5 months agoeBay is making sure everyone who has the most sales & pays the most fees are getting the most traffic. All of the other sellers get to fight for the crumbs.
chapeau-noir
·5 months agoSomebody already asked about this, right? The post may have been removed or I just missed it.
NO SHIP CA,OR,TX,NM,NV
NO SHIP CA
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoOh there's an OP ? What was the question again 😂
kh_femi
·5 months agoHi everyone,
This discussion has gotten a bit heated, and so I have removed all disrespectful replies.
Please remember that, while it is fine to disagree with others, discussion should always remain friendly and respectful as required by the Community Guidelines.
Thank you for your cooperation.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·5 months agoGiven that there are over 100 responses(not counting any that have been removed), and that the OP has never returned to this thread, it is hard to see how anyone is really helping the OP at this point .
kibble-net
·5 months agoEbay is a worldwide marketplace. Not a small antiques shop.
If you don't like it here, vote with your feet.
christworks
·5 months ago@bloomsanddealz Posts like yours always get under my skin. Blame, blame, blame everybody and everything but yourself. Don't believe the hogwash about how sales are down becuase of gas prices, the economy, etc. While some decrease for some sellers is possible, people have not stopped buying. They never do. You have sellers who are making thounds of dollars a day selling random items, some for low dollar and some for high dollar. By in large the ability to do well on eBay during any given time is in your control.
I did not read through all the pages. Someone may have already told you this. I'm just going to be blunt: Your titles are terrible. They may actually be some of the poorest titles I've ever seen. No wonder nobody can find your items. You get 80 characters for titles. Use them. Don't waste characters on periods. You are not writing sentences. You are using words buyers will search. It doesn't have to make sense. Don't use the same word twice - the algorithm doesn't need it. Don't use words like "rare," especially when the item isn't rare. If you struggle writing titles, pull up ChatGPT and tell it what you are listing or provide it a photo of the item. Then, tell it that you need an eBay key word title for the item. Something like this:
I do not know whether your sign is vintage or that your letters are metal, but you get the idea. You could substitute the dimenions of the sign. A buyer scanning for this type of sign would love to know it is nearly 20 inches long. Look at your competition. Look at how their title is heavily loaded with key words. Look how nice their first photo is. The sign is standing up so buyers can actually see it. It looks "real," and gives buyers an idea of how it might look on a wall. Both you and your competitor need to have a yardstick in front of it so buyers can see the size. It's one thing to tell them it is 20 inches long. It's another to show them.
Your photos are also poorly cropped. Your lead photo (not your title) is almost always what gets someone to click into your listing. That first image should shine. You can get away with a little sloppiness after the 3rd image.
Your "no return" policy. That's a problem. It's 2026. Buyers expect the flexibilty to return items. It doesn't have to be free returns. Buyer paid returns is fine. By accepting returns, you are sending the signal you aren't gonig to be a jerk to work with should there be a problem.
Alot of your items have little to no demand. I'm going to pick on your lot of assorted ribbon as someone who has some of that junk listed himself. A while back a couple of family members gave me a ton of craft supplies, most of it new, including ribbons. Some of them very nice, and some are seasonal. That stuff is dead weight on eBay. I have gradually been moving it to other platforms where it does better. A lot of your crafters and artist buy elsewhere, and eBay is saturated with these type of things. Lots of supply and low demand on eBay make that type of inventory a drag. You may want to rethink where you are selling that type of thing. If you are going to keep it here, make your 3rd image the main photo so buyers can actually see what they are buying.
A few simple changes can turn things around for you and nudge those sales back up no matter what is going on that is beyond your control.
frugalmarketplace
·5 months ago@christworks
I had to re-read your response to make sure it was as blunt as it appeared the first time I looked at it….and unfortunately it was.
“Your titles are terrible. They may actually be some of the poorest titles I've ever seen”
Now that was flat out unkind. This seller was asking advice…there is a nice way to respond.. Yes the titles are not good use of “valuable” real estate..Are they horrible? Are they great? neither…..They need some work. telling someone to go use AI to write a better title reminds me of a conversation I had with some 20 something at eBay. He said I should go to chat GP and write better titles. I told him I hated AI and it was a sign of how dumb people have become. They will never learn to write properly if they use some robot. That is just like telling kids using calculators to do math problems or use a digital watch. They are not going to learn the love or reading, writing, thinking, speaking..they too will be robots if “use AI to do listings” is the advise they received.
Now I don’t agree with you on religion, politics, or probably anything else, but we are here to assist eBay sellers, and I think they deserve a kind response.
christworks
·5 months agoI was kind. You should have read what I originally was going to post. 😆
Unlike people like yourself, I actually care that people do well and succeed. I told them what they needed to hear, without all the doom-and-gloom excuses and sugar-coating things. Their titles are horrible. That's just a fact. They are among some of the worse I've read. That's also a fact. I did not say the OP is horrible.
@bloomsanddealz is here complaining their sales are down. They then want to know what eBay is doing to help them, as if eBay is supposed to hold their hand. eBay's not here to our hands. They give us the tools and resources to be sucessful, but they cannot make us use them. Doesn't matter whether it is a seller or a buyer. The OP needs to use the resources eBay has already given them.
AI can be a useful tool, if used correctly. It most certainly does not dumb people down. If used correctly, it can make them smarter. It can also be a major time saver when used correctly. Working more efficiently is actually quite smart.
They will never learn to write properly if they use some robot.
Presumably every person selling on eBay is an adult and has passed out of grade school and high school. They should know how to write, yes. If they don't, well, I can think of a few reasons why recent graduates may not given who is running the AFT.
All types of people sell on eBay. Some well-educated, some not so well educated. All have a right to be successful and all can be successful. If someone struggles with some aspect of eBay, like writing titles, AI can definitely help them with that and teach them. There is no shame in that, but you seem to look down on those who do. I have to laugh at that. You talk about people being dumb, yet chastize me for not being kind. What a hypocrite you are, but that really shouldn't come as a surprise now, should it?
black_marketeer
·5 months agoI watch a guy on YouTube who is an eBay seller who is convinced that those who list every day are favored by eBay's algorithms to be closer to the top of search results. Same with promoting through eBay, even if it's a very small promotion percentage. He has no proof of these things, it's his guess and I've been trying both and have seen a very small uptick this week after promoting at 2% and listing almost daily for a couple of months.
I think you need more items listed. Your inventory is so small that it almost looks like an account that was sort of abandoned by its owner.
TO ALL SELLERS: For the love of God and all that's holy, please brighten your photos up! The half blind like me can't see what's in your photos. TYVM
linenandlaceltd
·5 months agoI've noticed my selling issues really started when eBay's technical issues started, back during their live stuff that affected people's ability to purchase.
Things took awhile to improve, only to have that hacking issue recently. Things took a downturn then. Maybe it'll take awhile to recover again.
My ability to send offers to people has been messed up for months now though. I get watchers on items but it takes days or even weeks for me to be able to send them an offer. Usually I'll go from being able to send 0 offers to 10 all at once. I don't think that's helping things, either.
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoAt least the fuel prices are coming down 🤔
chapeau-noir
·5 months ago😂Wait five minutes, they'll be up again.
grann-4629
·5 months agoAt least the fuel prices are coming down 🤔
Right. The Feds removed their tax on our gasoline to give us a break, and the price at the pumps went up only 20 cents/litre. Now they are talking about 'summer gas' coming out which will add a little more to the cost. We have lots of electricity available, but it's too cold to use an electric car all year. Waiting for climate change in a PITA 😎
kibble-net
·5 months agoAre you tired of WINNING yet? 😉
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoNot yet but im definitely happy to see that there will be no missile heading to the USA in the near future from Iran 🙂
lakefor94
·5 months ago@lawnmowerpartsstore2
We are still winning here, no complaints. My whole family is winning as well. Thankful, all day, every day.
The fear-mongers would implicate for me to believe otherwise, as they persist. Won't happen.
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoCareful now, the doom-and-gloomers are going to accuse you of exaggerating and bragging. 😉
Congrats on the ongoing success. There seems to be quite a bit of winning all around, even for folks who insist it's not happening.
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoMeantime we are all just living the dream 🤕
shire123
·5 months agoAs many are alluding to, and what has been said many time in the past on other threads, sales will depend on what is in demand and pricing. It is not valid to compare your experience to what others are experiencing.
I am a small seller (about 400 listings) and my views of those listings has gone up over 6000 in the last 3 months. I pretty much limit myself to collectible toys. Sales are averaging close to 8 a day.
Going by my experience there is no problem with ebay. Nor is traffic way down.
chapeau-noir
·5 months agoIMHO, it's easier if we remember that we are simply vendors on a managed marketplace. I've sold on numerous platforms down through the years, and its never been any different on any of them.
chapeau-noir
·5 months agoI think people need to understand this truism: Whatever disastrous SCOTUS says, corporations are not people and 'caring' is not in their DNA. Profit is, and as long as the 20% of sellers that make 80% of the money here are turning a profit (and paying promotions), the rest simply doesn't matter.
jdbelt1960
·5 months agoWhat do you expect Ebay to do?
soh.maryl
·5 months agoIf you have viable suggestions as to what eBay could do to help, you might think about presenting your ideas to eBay.
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoWow did you see the stock market ? The 401K is rocking it 🙂
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoNow, now, don't ruin the conversation with silly old facts. I'm stoked about the coming low-cost IRA plans (though to be totally honest, I won't be "retiring" until I'm blind and my arms fall off)!
tobaccocardyahoo
·5 months agoI remember when we opened our IRAs, they told us, "You get a tax deduction now when your taxes are higher, and get the income later when your tax rate will be lower".
Old enough to be forced to withdraw a minimum distribution each year, I am paying taxes on income which is close to what I was making in my prime earning years. Amazingly, I am not spending all of that money to live on.
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoWell we both know that just means you're doing far better today than what was anticipated when you opened your IRAs, which is awesome! Congrats on a life well lived. 🙂
If the economy was as bad as some folks around here would like us to believe, you probably would be spending it all to live on. But again, it seems that there's a pretty clear divide between folks who believe in helping themselves and those who want others to help them.
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoIt all comes around to life choices 🙂 Some choices are good and some not so good.....
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoYep! I'd add that the ability to recognize a bad choice and take ownership of it goes an awful long way in getting one where they want to be. No one else can course correct for us, as attractive as that option may seem.
mozartbach1971
·5 months agoNot everyone has money in the stock market.
maxxilano
·5 months agoDon't put all your eggs in the same basket. Yes, sales are down compared to previous years, and the fees are the highest among the major e-commerce sites, but there are other platforms with zero or almost zero fees and cheaper shipping.
eBay still has its loyal customer base, but it shouldn't be your only income source.
tobaccocardyahoo
·5 months agoFor many sellers and the OP is one of them, the merchandise they are offering is more likely to sell on Ebay than any other e-commerce site.
It does not matter if Etsy vintage items are lower fee, the site is among the least effective in selling this sort of merchandise.
onefootflipper
·5 months agoMy ebay fees have been basically unchanged for a long as I can remember other than that tiny little increase a few years ago.
When I look at your store I see 20 items, nothing particularly in demand. I also see very poor titles.
What I also see is this mysterious text "NO SHIP CA,OR,TX,NM,NV"
What is that supposed to mean? I have literally never seen anything like that before. If you are trying to cut off shipping to certain states well, guess what, you aren't allowed to do that. Or does it mean that you won't ship the item and it can be picked up in those states. In any case the average buyer sees the words "NO SHIP" and moves along instantly to the next listing.
Why are you refusing to ship to some states?
Why are you so severely undercharging shipping in most cases? I see a figurine there that you have $3.50 shipping on that will cost you at least $6 to ship once you account for ebay fees on shipping.
This also leads me to ask another question. Are you buying your labels at the counter at the post office? I normally don't ask that, but you combination of "many years", low feedback total and not understanding ebay shipping makes me wonder.
monroe67
·5 months ago"The fees are going up and traffic going down."
I could be mistaken, but eBay's most recent Final Value Fee increase was at least two years ago, maybe three years ago now.
That was an increase in the 30 cent, fixed, per-order portion of the Final Value Fee.
It was increased to 40 cents -- but only when the total amount of the order was $10.01 and over.
tobaccocardyahoo
·5 months agoThere is a lot less interest in many items than there used to be.
Taste's change.
Some of your items listed are priced well below what they were when there was more interest. I assume you took into account the lack of interest when you priced those items. Lowering the price does not make an item sell, if there is no interest.
Without any intention to attack you, I feel a seller who has only 21 items listed cannot now, and never could count on having any predictability for when would see any of their listings, let alone buy.
You need a different strategy.
bonanza125
·5 months agoYou need to constantly list stuff which sells. Your stuff isn't in demand so you will have low sales. Traffic has been cut in half for you personally because nobody wants what you are offering. You need to find stuff which sell and you can make money on. If you don't then this trend will continue for you. Ebay can't do anything to help you.
reallynicestamps
·5 months ago@bloomsanddealz Do you realize that mercury glass vase is listed twice? Do you have two? Because you are using the same picture for both listings.
ryry-jj
·5 months agoNo one cares about sellers...we didn't care about brick and mortar businesses 15 years ago, we don't care about on-line sellers today. Each seller needs to care and adapt for themselves.
Btw, the fees are miniscule to what traditional business expenses have been. If sellers struggle with this cost feature there is no where to go but to a garage sale. The real challenges to on-line selling is the unlimited competition with very low entry costs and our shipping costs. Most of us in an attempt to provide the lowest shipping, ignore the true cost of packaging and shipping....a very slow bleed that we think we can make up in sales volume only to find out we bleed faster that way
inhawaii
·5 months agoWhat are you doing to help yourself?
eze-right1
·5 months agoHe or she is probably selling on eBay to help herself.
jundedh2012
·5 months agoi dont think ebay has sorted out all the issues,also current events as well are hurting everyone
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoThis is kind of an interesting position. I suspect there are still intermittent hiccoughs, which may be having some minor effect.
As to the second part, nope. Current events are not hurting everyone. My own sales this year have been significantly higher than last year, and much, much higher than during 2024 (roughly double). In fact, my net sales for the past three months have been even higher than my gross sales during the same months last year.
Finally, assuming there was any truth in the second part of your claim, why/how is that ebay's problem to solve? If we're going to keep insisting it's the economy, then there's really no point in posting on a selling board complaining about the platform.
pls-consignments
·5 months agoI think its important that you add context to your "increase in sales" boast, so OP's such as this one do not get discouraged from even trying anymore. For example, my sales are also higher than a year ago. However, I made significant changes in my sourcing & listing habits in order to adapt to the ever-changing environment.
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoI already did, feel free to review my numerous other posts on this subject. I haven't changed my sourcing, I haven't changed my listing habits. My store size is down approximately 200 listings from Q4 of last year.
My "boasts" are statistics provided by ebay. You can find them by them by reviewing the posts I've mentioned above (in addition to the one in this thread that you quoted).
ETA: I'm not sure it's my job to encourage the OP anymore than it's ebay's job to help them. How bout we all put on our big girl/boy pants and take ownership of our choices, stop blaming the economy, and be honest with ourselves about the level of effort we are/aren't putting into our businesses?
soh.maryl
·5 months ago"Current events are not hurting anyone."?
So you've not had to buy gas or groceries lately?
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoGo ahead and reread my post. I absolutely DID NOT say that current events are not hurting anyone. I said they're not hurting EVERYONE.
frugalmarketplace
·5 months ago@tarotfindsandmore
Just out of curiosity..please let me know who is not being hurt?
We personally have felt little difference in our lives….however we do see things that we are not doing I.e no planned vacations, stay away from the grocery store..do delivery as it eliminates impulse purchases and is usually cheaper…and so forth. I think everyone is affected from groceries and gas. Just to name a few…I am speaking about non-discretionary spending..we have to eat, and without good mass transit most places we need to get in our cars…
tarotfindsandmore
·5 months agoMe. My groceries are down significantly. Gas is still lower here than it was during Covid so that's kind of a **bleep** complaint in my book as well.
Before really getting out into the weeds here, let me remind you of the point of my post. The OP is whining about ebay not helping her/him. Many of the usual suspects quickly hopped on to make sure to use this thread as an opportunity to whine about "everyone suffering". Well, that's a whole lot of hooey. Many folks are NOT, in fact, suffering and, even more importantly, it does absolutely no good to start yet another whine fest about something that 1) cannot be addressed in any kind of meaningful way on this board and 2) is just plain wrong for a huge portion of the population.
Everyone is not suffering. The same people who always complain are complaining. I'd really love it if those people stopped speaking on my (and other non-suffering people's) behalf.
soh.maryl
·5 months agoSo you've "felt very little difference" in your lives?
So no planned vacations and fewer grocery trips make very little difference?
pls-consignments
·5 months agoAbsolutely. But, as we see by some of the posts, ignorance IS bliss.
soh.maryl
·5 months agoThank you for the correction. My apologies.
soh.maryl
·5 months agoAt this particular time, given the current economy, with increasing gas prices and consequent increases in the price of food, a large percentage of buyers are probably only shopping for needs, not wants. Many of your current listings fall into the latter category.
jonathanbrightlight
·5 months agoNot really, there was a little bit of an increase last year or the end of the previous year I think, but fees have been pretty consistent for a long time.
soh.maryl
·5 months agoSince I no longer sell, I don't keep track of fee increases. Has there been a recent one?
animal-house-8
·5 months agoI noticed about 2 weeks ago my traffic went from 180 per day to 60 and sales dropped, seems to have picked up the last 2 days. Ebay was having some sort of issue so maybe that was it or consumer sentiment is in the pits right now so sales can be a little finicky . You really need to try to add some more stuff to your store that always helps.
baydealz
·5 months agoIt looks like you sell various items, like me. I'd say any cycle is item/category specific. At any time that someone rants about slowdown, another is gleeful over the volume. I was about to post about the uptick in activity. I also sell various items, but I think yours are more eclectic, almost like a 'luxury good' that people buy with 'disposable income,' which is tight right now. I don't sell antiques or collectibles, but more good, random stuff at discount. When consumers are more strapped like now, smart, frugal buyers seek deals, so my activity has been going up - just like during high inflation of a coupe years ago. But I slowed way down a year or so ago as people had the money to just buy new or from Amazon.
[Message edited by mod]
kibble-net
·5 months agoIf you feel the fees are too high, vote with your feet.
If you're upset about traffic being down, well, not much you can really do there. We are all hurting right now because of economic conditions brought upon by .... well, I can't say here because the mods will delete my post. Just watch the news for 5 minutes 🙂
caldreamer
·5 months agoEBAY goal is to make money "for themselves". That's what corporations do. Believe me, EBAY wants your items to sell (that's how they make money).
Don't understand why your items are not selling. They are lovely pieces and your prices are "dirt cheap" (your competitors are priced 4 times higher than you). I have found that you cannot "force a sale" even by lowering prices. You just have to wait until the right person comes along.
I believe right now with gasoline prices and postage prices sky high this is hurting sales for everyone.
kibble-net
·5 months agoWinner winner chicken dinner!
luckythewinner
·5 months agoeBay GMV (gross merchandise volume) went from $73.9 billion in 2022 to $79.6 billion in 2025, or +8%.
At the same time the number of listings went from 1.7 billion in 2022 to 2.5 billion in 2025, or +47%.
When a substantially larger number of listings is chasing the same amount of money, the chances of an individual listing getting purchased drops.
IMHO the issue on eBay is not a drop in buying, it is a glut of listings available ... and thus in order to maintain their income, sellers may need to either list a lot more or make much better decisions about what to offer.
bigoljim47
·5 months ago10 Days without a sale. Something is very wonky.
kibble-net
·5 months agoTurn on the evening news for 5 to 10 minutes and you may figure it out...
grann-4629
·5 months agoYou mean the infamous 'fake news'? It's way more entertaining than the real news. Saw a clip the other day on the news where a Ukranian jet took out a Russian jet in the current war. .. saw the exact same scene in Top Gun!
musicforyoureyes
·5 months agoBingo! I get that lots of ppl don't want to watch the REAL news because it brings them down, but total denial and not watching the news at all is very wrong. Find that middle ground where you know what's happening but you keep your sanity. For me, I get the news in the daytime and watch "fun" TV or whatever in the evening. I sleep better for it. And yes, it's bad. Really bad for sellers because ppl have basically stopped spending. Will it pass? It sure doesn't look like it will anytime soon. Thank you, kibble-net for your wise posts!
[Message edited by mod]
frugalmarketplace
·5 months ago@musicforyoureyes
I stay away from all but the reputable news sources and that is quick…most of it is AI anyway.
Thank you for your insightful post. There are a few “idiots” (none on this board) who think the world is a rose in bloom..which has a $125,000 pool being put in next door. Wait until he looses his job.
grann-4629
·5 months agoMost of the news is depressing and a lot of it is pure fantasy meant to keep you in line. There is, however, only one person in the world who annoys me to the point where I turn it off regardless of what that person is saying. And, that person's followers are all the result of a successful Manchurian experiment so watching them or hearing from any of them is another complete turnoff.
In terms of the big stuff happening around the world (wars, investigations, etc), do you really think you're getting the truth when the newscasters all fight each other to see who can report the incorrect/incomplete facts first?
Sometimes it's better not to know what is going on in the world - bliss may be the result of ignorance but it does wonders for high blood pressure and sleepless nights.
frugalmarketplace
·5 months ago@grann-4629
I will agree that most of the quality of our news is garbage. I cannot believe the “news” which was a standard written format. NEWS articles were first then FEATURE articles which had some embellishment permitted were second.. Now the “news” is a bunch of AI with typos.
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·5 months agoThe news is useless anymore. It doesn't matter who you listen too or watch anymore. Some stations support the left and some stations support the right so they all trash the opposite side.
When i was a kid, the news stations reported what was happening and every person watching the news made their own decision. Its not like that anymore. Its more like teams now. Its just all **bleep** anymore 😡
frugalmarketplace
·5 months ago@lawnmowerpartsstore2
Spot on !
As a family we would sit down in front of our TV and watch Walter Cronkite..
Just the facts…
meme6253
·5 months agoWonky doesn't begin to describe it, But a good start!
janet9988
·4 months agoOnly 10 days???? Seems you have been complaining long before that.
pls-consignments
·5 months agoUnfortunately, that's our current reality. You are correct, if our economic situation continues, it will not be sustainable for many sellers. In fact, it's quite possible that we may see additional rate hikes by all three major carriers if gas prices continue to increase.
Don't expect eBay to do anything about it, as it would impact their bottom line. If they do anything, they will most likely protect itself from loss by passing it on to the sellers.
Unavailable member
·5 months agoYou’ve been selling for many years? Why do you subscribe to a store when you only have 20 item listed? Seems like you like giving money to eBay.
eze-right1
·5 months agoIMHO, they may be decreasing listings due to the downturn in traffic and sales, which appears to have been going on for awhile now. It's kind of like working too hard when one posts 50 or more listings, only to have maybe 3 or 4 items being sold. One gets disillusioned in time, then lists less. Before you know it, they pull most everything from eBay and list them on some other online site. I love selling on eBay but lately it's getting tiresome for me as well. I even had eBay send a notification to lower my prices on certain items to get them to sell faster, which is wonky in itself considering the more money we get, the more money they get but that's another coin. I just hope sales get better for all of us.