Selling options use SHIP address logic, but FEE logic uses Registration address logic?
Some top notch posters inadvertently hijacked a thread that I would like to continue in a proper context.
@kathiec re: As for the use of a freight fowarder causing problems, exactly what problems would those be?
Background: I learned today that use of 'USA' in a buyers info & shipping address legitimately can represent a freight forwarder being used that should be 'no problem' for a seller, even if I have set my listing to not support international sales which translates to "not shipping to a non-US address" I am told.
How can you prevent buyers registered in another c... - The eBay Community
(quote from that thread)
"buyers who are registered in another country but use a US ship to address can still buy your item. You do not find out until the sale is complete and you look at your payout details and this is what you see:
(This is MY unexpected charge for a US sale for an item marked 'no international shipping', not from post above)
International Fee
Charged because the buyer’s registered address is in Japan. Final amount: $290.00. -$4.79
Rate$290.00x1.65% =-$4.79
I would suggest that when I specify no International shipping, and as you point out I am NOT shipping internationally, that being charged an International Fee is in fact a problem when it is something I have intended to prevent and cannot predict as an expense.
Fees use 'registered address' but policies use 'shipping address' <<< This is poor policy logic
I understand completely there is overhead for a foreign currency transaction, but this transaction is one that is between eBay and the BUYER by permitting freight forwarding and not allowing any reasonable way to prevent the charge except onerous workaround of snooping a buyer after a sale and cancelling an order.
OK, got that off my chest. Fire away and tell me how I am wrong on this one.
Best wishes.
55 comments
femmefan1946
·3 years agoI ship internationally using the postal system and have found no difference from my earliest eBay shipments in 1998 to today.
About 5% of my sales go overseas, 85% to the USA and the rest are domestic sales to Canada.
The one concern I think American eBayers should have is that the new EIS program does not force the buyer to pay import fees (duty and sales taxes) upfront, unlike the GSP.
The advantage with GSP was that the " customs delay scam" where the buyer filed and won an Item Not Received dispute*, then went and picked up the shipment paying only import fees, may have disappearedwith the new program.
That part of the GSP was loudly (and erroneously) complained about by my fellow Canadians, who thought those fees were going to the GSP instead of the Canadian government and technically should have been collected on delivery when the GSP was not used.
So, sorry about that. Unintended consequences on our part.
*I've actually had a couple of those, both from Germany. Most of my problem transactions were with US buyers, at a higher percentage than domestic or overseas.
downunder-61
·3 years agoOkay, I may be wrong, but I am sure I read somewhere that if you sign up to the EIS - eBay International Shipping (NOT the GSP) that as from March 1st the 1.65% international fee is no longer charged??
If this is correct I would be signing on for it and at least you get no surprises anymore and FF will be irrelevant as the OS buyer can purchase direct.
Can someone confirm please?
glenvonnie
·3 years agoThey charged me 1.65% for an item that sold this morning
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoOkay, I may be wrong, but I am sure I read somewhere that if you sign up to the EIS - eBay International Shipping (NOT the GSP) that as from March 1st the 1.65% international fee is no longer charged??
If this is correct I would be signing on for it and at least you get no surprises anymore and FF will be irrelevant as the OS buyer can purchase direct.
Can someone confirm please?
According to the EIS policy and information you would be correct. If you are using EIS then there is no longer any international fee. The EIS program also makes a LOT of other claims that will only be proven over time. It is not uncommon for eBay to waffle on its policies or promises.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/ebay-international-shipping-program?id=5348
However, EIS will probably not make the FF's irrelevant but that will have to be determined by the buyers. The big advantage to the use of FF's for many buyers is a huge reduction in cost that I am not sure even EIS can compete with.
stainlessenginecovers
·3 years ago@dbfolks166mt
I can confirm that it TRUE- the 1.65% International Purchase Fee is NOT CHARGED to the seller.
chris13
OP3 years agoIt's not fair of me to gripe about problems that are both 'known' and without any clear recourse. I will take things offline and see what I find out over coffee. I let my feathers get ruffled when several folks suggested that no problems are known with the whole Freight Forwarding thing. I found 11 threads some 7 pages long on this subject. Seems like if it was working out just fine for sellers it wouldnt have such history. It didnt work out well for me AND I found a loophole where you are NOT protected from INRs in some cases - though that is widely promoted by many - and yeah my listing fell into that loophole.
I have written this to include in my listings. Give me some feedback if it seems like I will violate any policies as I use it to control my *choice* to manage my own risk as I see fit.
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Buyer Notice: I will check your registered feedback locale and cancel any orders where it is not USA. I do not intend to ship internationally which also means SELL internationally. This includes doing so via Freight forwarding services which incurs fees from eBay that are not clearly disclosed or within a seller's control. Save us both the trouble and do not purchase if you are using a freight forwarding service. Thanks for understanding, this prevents me from arbitrarily raising prices for everyone to cover unplanned costs.
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itscalledapostingid
·3 years agoAbusing the cancellation process infuriates buyers and it's a reportable offense that can negatively impact your account.
chris13
OP3 years agoNotice how careful they are when they say "The "Issue with buyer's address" reason is no longer available to sellers when canceling orders for items sold through Authenticity Guarantee or eBay international standard delivery programs."
Order cancellation policy | eBay
I am either not using EIS and therefore the International fee is invalid, or the 'destination' address is not really in the USA in which case it is an invalid address per my listing configuration choices.
I have no real impact to my life should this be the hill I choose to die on. I kinda like the stuff I have been selling and its just pocket money and reduces some clutter.
pburn
·3 years agoI'm interested in your "listing configuration choices." I'm not familiar with what that references.
pburn
·3 years ago@devon@ebay
@elizabeth@ebay
@kyle@ebay
Can you clarify whether a seller is allowed to cancel transactions based on the buyer's use of a freight forwarder? Or is that a misuse of eBay's cancellation policy? Thanks.
chris13
OP3 years agoIf you ebay folks are at corporate, Id love to buy you a coffee sometime at Noah's next door or we can cross the street to Whole Foods if you prefer and talk shop, feel free to PM me. Thanks for your advice on this issue.
yuzuha
·3 years agoThe blues have clarified many times on the forums that it is NOT acceptable to cancel for that reason.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoThe blues have clarified many times on the forums that it is NOT acceptable to cancel for that reason.
Yes they have and they have also waffled on the eBay seller protection regarding the use of FF's that states once the item arrives at the FF the sellers responsibility is complete. Bottom line it's not eBay's risk or their items/money. If the blues want to pony up the money for any INR's, NAD's... that come from either eBay cases or chargebacks, where the buyer has used a FF then eBay, or the blues, have some ground to stand on.
One other note with regards to FF's. That is NOT strictly a US based business. There is suspicion that China is helping Russia get around the sanctions imposed due to the invasion of the Ukraine by Chinese based FF's receiving merchandise from around the world at a FF then shipping it up the one road into Russia.
pburn
·3 years agoeBay's cancellation policy is based on a customer's shipping address, not where the freight forwarding business is based. Whether it is or is not "strictly a US based business" is irrelevant. Unfounded "suspicion" does not appear to be listed as an exception to eBay's policy.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoeBay's cancellation policy is based on a customer's shipping address, not where the freight forwarding business is based. Whether it is or is not "strictly a US based business" is irrelevant. Unfounded "suspicion" does not appear to be listed as an exception to eBay's policy.
Regardless of eBay's policy I will continue to cancel shipments that are going through/to countries that I do not wish to sell to period. As for suspicion there are a number of articles on the internet and I have a number of friends that work for government organizations in the DC area that say it is pretty much a fact that China, along with several other countries, are assisting Russia with getting around the sanctions.
https://www.universalcargo.com/is-china-helping-shippers-get-around-russian-sanctions/
pburn
·3 years agoWillingness or unwillingness to violate this or any other of eBay's policies is up to you. I prefer to remain in compliance with eBay's policies. I feel I can't give credible advice to others--whether buyers or sellers--who violate any of eBay's policies if I'm doing it, too. I wouldn't feel good about commenting on another member's violation of "X" policy if I'm violating "Y" policy myself. But that's just me. 🤷â€â™€ï¸
I feel it would be disingenuous to tell another poster s/he has violated eBay policy regarding nonpayment, for example, if I've just violated the cancellation policy ten minutes before. It's inappropriate, IMO, to pick and choose which of eBay's policies I'll follow and then comment on others for not following policies.
We can agree to disagree on this subject.
Again, "articles on the internet" or "friends that work for government organizations . . . that say it is pretty much a fact" would have no impact on eBay's policies or whether a seller should comply with said policy.
harafkac0
·3 years agoThe political climate of foreign countries, NATO sanctions and circumventions, any and all of that falls outside our responsibility as sellers, however if you wish to take on this responsibility then ebay may not be the platform for you to sell on.
Our responsibility as sellers is to get the package to the buyer's ship to address.
Once the package arrives at the buyer's ship to address, our responsibility ends.
When it comes to FF's it works to our advantage, if you are familiar with the INAD/INR process then you would know the buyer loses all purchase protection schemes by using the FF.
Other than the little 2% fee I fail to understand why we're taking these issues to the nth degree.
We're not helping matters by overthinking these things.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoThe political climate of foreign countries, NATO sanctions and circumventions, any and all of that falls outside our responsibility as sellers, however if you wish to take on this responsibility then ebay may not be the platform for you to sell on. Quite disagree and I still find eBay to be a viable platform for me to sell on as I have for years. I consider myself to be a business just like any other business and like other businesses I do my best to align with national policy and the current sanctions.
Our responsibility as sellers is to get the package to the buyer's ship to address.
Once the package arrives at the buyer's ship to address, our responsibility ends. From a delivery perspective maybe not from a financial one. More than one seller has been burned by a chargeback from a foreign buyer where the item went through a FF and the eBay MBG policy means NOTHING to the CC company. Bottom line it's my merchandise and my risk until eBay puts a policy in place similar to what they are attempting to do under EIS that better covers the seller.
When it comes to FF's it works to our advantage, if you are familiar with the INAD/INR process then you would know the buyer loses all purchase protection schemes by using the FF. I am quite familiar with the NAD/INR process and how it works, or doesn't . The buyer only looses MBG under eBay policy and at times that is questionable based on a number of comments by the blues. Repeat that policy means NOTHING to a CC company when processing a chargeback.
Other than the little 2% fee I fail to understand why we're taking these issues to the nth degree.
We're not helping matters by overthinking these things. While the 2% has always been an annoyance the topic of FF's has been an ongoing discussion for YEARS and will without doubt continue to be so.
I am going to assume that this is a posting ID since it's only been active since 2/26/23 and you have nothing listed and have sold nothing on this account.
yuzuha
·3 years agoI'm honestly not seeing your point. A domestic buyer can do a chargeback just as easily as a foreign one and the outcome will be exactly the same.
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoWhen it comes to FF's it works to our advantage, if you are familiar with the INAD/ process then you would know the buyer loses all purchase protection schemes by using the FF.
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If only that were so, it would be a wonderful thing.
kyle@ebay
Hey @yuzuha thanks for pointing this out and helping spread the word.
@dbfolks166mt If you have any specific questions about coverage when freight forwarders are involved, I'd be happy to answer them. Just tag me with your questions and I'll be happy to help!
pburn
·3 years agoYou know that, and I know that . . . but there are sellers who seem to either be unaware of the policy violation or are willing to operate that way anyway.
kyle@ebay
Hey @pburn thanks for checking. It is not appropriate to cancel an order simply because the buyer is using a freight forwarder. Of course, as a seller, you are only responsible to ship to the address on the order itself, so if the item makes it there and gets lost afterward, you would be protected.
pburn
·3 years agoThanks for the clarification, @kyle@ebay!
kyle@ebay
You are very welcome! And it never hurts to double check, just in case something may have changed.
pburn
·3 years ago@kyle@ebay
Looks like the OP has offered to buy you a coffee!
kyle@ebay
Hey @chris13 that's very generous of you! I'd love to take you up on it, but unfortunately we're spread across the U.S. But coffee or not, we're always happy to help!
chris13
OP3 years ago@kyle@ebay
Coffee another day, perhaps.
It would be nice if the policy was something that support staff was trained to communicate. Your support agent, unprompted, actually suggested this as a course of action (cancellation)
We rely on consistency when leveraging support services.
(paste from my chat transcription at point of sale)
kyle@ebay
Hey @chris13 thanks for bringing this up. While certainly you can cancel any sale (though not without potential repercussions) it's disappointing to hear you were not provided the proper context that goes along with this option. You can check out our help page here to see more info surrounding cancellations.
chris13
OP3 years ago@kyle@ebay I have read that and in fact quoted it in this thread.
The specifics of this emphasized text area are exactly what caused me to think that when a listing is NOT using Authentication or EIS options, that cancelling for a reason of 'Problem with Address' is in fact both allowed and appropriate.
Can you point me to the specifics of when that reason IS allowed? It merely states when it isnt. Or at least I cant seem to find it. Thanks for your continued help with this issue.
The "Issue with buyer's address" reason is no longer available to sellers when canceling orders for items sold through Authenticity Guarantee or eBay international standard delivery programs.
pburn
·3 years agoHere are a few I can think of:
I'm sure there are other legitimate reasons for using that option that I'm overlooking.
femmefan1946
·3 years ago@chris13
I found 11 threads some 7 pages long on this subject. Seems like if it was working out just fine for sellers it wouldnt have such history.
Two points-- people come to the Boards when they have a problem not when everything goes smoothly.
Man bites dog is a news story.
And -- Americans (and Brits) are weirdly afraid of overseas shipping. Just making out a customs form upsets them. That's why eBay introduced the Global Shipping Program which ended responsibility for delivery at the Kentucky plant and paid import fees in advance, ending the most likely problems.
yuzuha
·3 years agoTo be fair, COVID threw a huge snarl into any sort of international shipping. I used to ship internationally all the time with no issues but ever since COVID, I've limited things to US only because I've heard far too many tales of issues with postal services in other countries and things taking forever to be delivered/not being delivered.
ckimodog
·3 years ago@chris13
Me again Chris. There have been numerous posts on this particular subject. Many are getting international orders, even though they state they do not ship internationally. Ebay has auto enabled this option, which I personally don't appreciate as I'm sure you don't either. I'll post a screen shot of what I mean:
Okay, this is what I discovered a few months ago. Not only is ebay auto enabling shipping locations, they are also enabling pricing for our items. Had I not noticed this little feature, I could have lost a lot of money. I do not post best offers. I do not want volume pricing, I don't need to sell in a lot, nor do want ebay choosing my prices for me. It's the same for shipping. In your shipping area, look to the right and you'll see "see all options" click that and that's where you'll find that you actually do ship internationally and not by your own choice. Slide those toggles to meet your criteria.
Another thing, make sure the auto returns features are not enabled either. Meaning a customer can file a return for what ever reason and you will automatically give them their money back. Boom! No chance to appeal or even ask for the item back to re sell. Several of us here found that "feature" was enabled on our sites thanks to another poster here who pointed it out. Sneaky, huh?
I don't know why ebay feels this is necessary and it certainly doesn't support a sellers choice in my opinion. It doesn't make me feel terribly confident either. I feel for the new sellers as well. Many are unaware of this feature and it could make for some negative impact. Just my thoughts
Just a heads up, friend. Always be on the watch here.
Have a great night. A hui ho.
chris13
OP3 years agoThanks @ckimodog As you suggested I did just go turn off my global shipping prefs, but that wont block this problem. And I *have* noticed there is a nasty bug where several defaults and settings change in particular when you use drafts, copies of drafts, etc, especially the one where it resets 'EIS'.
I assure you that this listing was sold with EIS/GSP turned off, since it has to do specifically with the buyer using a USA freight forwarding address, but still getting International Fees.
@itscalledapostingid I know eBay Dev / PM isnt going to fix something from my post. HOWEVER, once I really get my teeth into something that represents hidden fee charges that have no way of being managed... I have no problems reaching out to my old QA manager employee who has 27 current eBay QA employees in her Linked-In profile and feeding them a set of 'One of these cant be correct - you pick' scenarios. My wife will probably not let me talk to her colleague who was a PM for the SYI team that is now a Director of PM over at HP...but I may try. We live in Campbell, CA...its a seven block walk for me to be in the front lobby of eBay HQ for coffee with some old friends.
And...being retired, I have all the time in the world.
itscalledapostingid
·3 years agoIf you are that concerned about the fee just raise all your prices by 2% to cover potential international fees. When you get a domestic order you make a little extra.
(ebay is not going to change their policy because you post bout it here.)
joliztoyco
·3 years agoHuh?
Raise the prices on everyone to pay for the shipping to buyers you have specifically excluded from your auctions?
You DO know how insane that sounds, right?
itscalledapostingid
·3 years agoI don't sell anything that isn't profitable enough to cover all ebay fees. I am in business to make money. The more the better.
Insane would be not charging enough to cover all the fees and still make a hefty profit.
harafkac0
·3 years agoNot at all, I raise prices on everyone just to cover the costs of a few without much hesitation.
It is in fact a standard business practice.
femmefan1946
·3 years ago@joliztoyco
Raise the prices on everyone to pay for the shipping to buyers you have specifically excluded from your auctions?
It's not really all that insane, although I would suggest that the percentage be less than 2%.
Crunch the numbers.
I ship internationally, and overseas sales are about 5% of my sales.
I guess if I was worried about it, instead of just having enjoyed 5% more sales, that rise might be around .1% on my selling price, or 10c on a $10 sale / $1.00 on a $100 sale.
itscalledapostingid
·3 years agoWho would have thought my suggestion of setting prices to cover all of ebay's fees would be so controversial?
nobody*s_perfect
·3 years agoI won't argue about the logic of it.
I have shipped to a Japanese buyer through a forwarder in Oregon with no problems.