Selling a recording of a book signing?
So I know that an unauthorized recording (fan recording) of a concert or show wouldn't be allowed, but I have something a little different that I'm curious about, to see if it would fall under the same policy. I have received a recording from a book signing by a famous figure from the 1960s, but it's clearly a home recording on a cassette tape. Since that wasn't, to my knowledge, a paid event or copyrighted content (just an author speaking to his fans), would you expect it to still fall under the same policy and/or be potentially removed by eBay, or is that type of recording allowed? I don't want to push the envelope of what is allowed, but I also don't want to pass on an item that I believe would be worth a significant amount of money if it would be fine.
The policy I'm familiar with that could apply: https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/counterfeit-policy?id=4276
Unauthorized copies are duplicates of protected works made or shared without the rights owner’s permission. They include unlicensed reproductions of media or printed materials.
Unauthorized copies aren’t allowed on eBay. Examples include:
- Bootleg or self-made recordings of concerts, films, shows, or games
- Burned or copied music, movies, or software
- Scans, rips, or reprints of art
- Unauthorized reprints of trading cards or stamps
- Preloaded USB drives or SD cards with copied files
- Copies of autographs or COAs/LOAs issued by unaccepted sources
magicjohnsonsvariety
·8 months agoPerfectly legal....
onefootflipper
·8 months agoAll of you saying the guy should not attempt to sell this should go out there and report every single listing of old home movies, old photographs, old diaries, and notebooks with squiggles in them. All of them could be copies.
There is no reason to believe that the original poster is not in possession of the original recording of this tape. While he would have no legal ground to sell copies of the tape he could absolutely sell the original, just like he could sell any other original work. Someone else might currently hold the IP rights to all of Andy Warhol's paintings, that doesn't mean that you can't sell your original.
This is also a case of "impossible to prove" Who recorded that tape? Probably no way to prove it decades later.
You are more likely to get in legal trouble selling a brand new item you bought at the store on ebay than the original poster ever would a decades old audio tape of a book signing recorded by an absolutely unknown person.
And all this legalese arguments are being made over an item that likely doesn't hold enough value to even have a cease and desist letter sent out in the first place.
tarotfindsandmore
·8 months agoAnd what's the harm in trying anyway? If it's a no go, they'll let you know. Pretty sure most of us are completely clueless on this one. Unless there's a copyright lawyer among us (and you can figure out who the rightful owner would be) who hasn't yet spoken up, I'd just make sure it works and list it.
magicjohnsonsvariety
·8 months agoI'm not a copyright lawyer, but I did do work for the Video Software Dealers Association (VSDA) which was a industry trade group that advocated for the rights of video rental stores on copyright issues back in the early days of Blockbuster Video.
Movie studios tried for years to restrict the sales and rentals of movies until the first sale doctrine put a stop to all that. So yes, something like this can be sold without permission providing it is original.
luckythewinner
·8 months agoDo you own the rights to the content?
Or do you have permission from the owner of the intellectual property (the recording) to duplicate their work?
If you do not, then no you can't copy someone else work and sell it.
Since that wasn't, to my knowledge, a paid event
That has no bearing on whter it is copyrighted or not.
or copyrighted content (just an author speaking to his fans)
The recording itself is intellectual property, in addition to the content.
magicjohnsonsvariety
·8 months agoRegardless of if the actual content is copyrighted or not...and most likely it's not, the first sale doctrine allows for the rental and sale of protected works as long as what you're selling it's the original copy and not a duplicate bootleg copy.
This is the same as with any pre recorded audio or video tape or disc...you don't need permission from the owner to sell original recordings...
tarotfindsandmore
·8 months agoUnless it's Bukowski, it probably isn't worth the hassle. 😉
Then again, you could just put it up and see what happens. The worst that will happen is it will get taken down, and then you'll know.
I would make sure it's playable before doing anything though.
onefootflipper
·8 months agoOh, if this is an audio cassette of a BOOK SIGNING than honestly the chances are the thing is of such a low value that it really isn't going to matter one way or another. I think we spent way more collective brain power thinking about it than it is worth.
chapeau-noir
·8 months agoJust a caveat - There's a good chance that the tape in that cassette is deteriorated to the point of unplayability - or is so brittle that it would break after a few plays. Cassette tape is very unstable small storage. You may or may nor be too young to have dealt with a lot of tape, but I did for years working with voice files- we had breakage even after a few years.
tobaccocardyahoo
·8 months agoI too am not a lawyer. My instincts tell me that if the author is protective of their IP, this will lead to a lawsuit whether there is a perfect match with the law or not. Close enough for lawyers. If the author is deceased, there is a good chance his estate would like a few extra grand.
If you are as lawsuit averse as I am, you could contact the author, tell him you have the tape, seek his permission or even offer him first dibs.
1786davycrockett
·8 months ago@jonathanbrightlight
If you can not guarantee the authenticity of the author's voice on the cassette, I would hesitate to offer this item for sale.
As @tobaccocardyahoo has suggested, a good first step would be to contact the author or the author's current agents or representatives, to inform them of the existence of this item.
They would probably be able to provide you with suggestions regarding the verification of this item, and may actually offer to purchase it from you directly.
Years ago, I ran into a similar situation with a J. D. Salinger item, which was VEROed soon after I had listed it.
Better safe than sorry.
onefootflipper
·8 months agoThis is not a musical performance people. It does not fall into any of the usual particularly protected categories as it is also not a dramatic performance nor a sporting event.
This is a home video. The rights to the video technically belong to whoever filmed it, however the chance that they are going to, care, show up, dispute it, and have to proof to do so round down to zero.
I have sold many lots of old home videos. The fact that a famous person is in it doesn't make it any different.
Stick it on your shelf for a month or two so all the keyboard warriors here forget about it and then list it.
However, depending on who the person is and how interesting it is you would probably make more money just uploading it to youtube.
itsjustasprain
·8 months agoIt is an audio cassette.
This is his posting account.
jonathanbrightlight
OP8 months agoYep, audio cassette, not video, but I don't know how much that matters when it comes to the decision.
And while this is my posting account, I wouldn't expect it to be difficult if someone decided to try and figure out the selling account it would be listed on. So I'm still being very cautious.
roccotacodad54
·8 months agoI own a large collection of "bootleg" recordings. It's one thing to record them, another to sell them.
I got the perponderance of mine as gifts from the people that recorded them. No money involved. Not even for the blank tapes. Just "here's a cool one for your collection".
I'd tread lightly, especially on a venue exposed to so many. Maybe do some research if said author (or heirs) is proactive in regards to that.
From what I've learned some don't care while others are prone to litigation over unofficial recordings.........
mtgraves7984
·8 months agoGeez... I'd research it a bit more. The phrase "self-made recordings" in your first bullet point gives me pause. Hmmm... 🤔
onefootflipper
·8 months agoI think you would have been more fine selling it if you had not asked here first.
Wait a month until all the vultures in this thread forget about it and then list it.
Call it "Home Movie of Stephen King Book Signing" or whatever (obviously not him, since he started in the 1970s).
meme6253
·8 months agoI think you would need permission from the Author, Or you may receive a notice from the authors attorney.
gone.c-33
·8 months agoSince it wasn’t a book reading, which would contain copyrighted material, I would say it’s fair game (but I’m not a copyright attorney nor do I play one on eBay ☺ï¸)
jonathanbrightlight
OP8 months agoI actually haven't played it myself to know for sure if it contains any reading from the book, so that's an interesting point.
Thank you to everyone that has responded! Checking with the author would be difficult since he died in the 70s, and while we could check with whoever holds the copyright for the book in question, I'm not sure we would want to deal with that process. I will have to advise my manager of the potential concerns and let them make the decision, since I don't know that we've ever dealt with that type of situation (or rather, if we were concerned about something like this, we've always just skipped the item).
a_c_green
·8 months agoWell, heck, play the tape! 😃 Are you just going off of what was written on the label, or...?
Half a century later, you might hear nothing but an inaudible mumble or tape hiss. I have plenty of old cassettes myself, both commercially recorded and home-made, and some have aged far better than others. Play it all the way through, both sides, and see what's there.
jonathanbrightlight
OP8 months agoWe certainly will before we sell it anywhere! I wanted to make sure it was worth the effort (we'll have to go buy a cassette player) before we did, though.
itsjustasprain
·8 months agoSeems a little close to the edge but I would not say a recording of a conversation (presumably made with the knowledge of the subject since it would be hard to hide a 1970s-era cassette recorder) is in the category of a public performance.
You would also want to make it very clear that you are selling the cassette itself and not just a copy you made of the recording found on it. That distinction would be the same as selling a 1970s record vs. selling your own copy of that record.