Seller with ZERO protection?
Summary: kakenetit2 expressed concern about a buyer returning a different, defective item than what was sold, resulting in a financial loss due to eBay automatically approving the return. Numerous participants provided insights, suggesting that while there are limited protections for sellers against buyer fraud, reporting the buyer and utilizing tax deductions for business losses could offer some recourse. Others discussed eBay’s policies, pointing out that standard return procedures and deductions might vary depending on how returns are managed. Participants also highlighted the difficulties sellers face on eBay with fraudulent returns and the lack of sufficient protection from the platform.
What protection do I have? Zero feedback buyer returned a defective camera with different serial number that I sold to him and eBay automatically approved the return. I don't see anyway to get my money back? I have serial number include in photos on the listing.
babyers88
·1 week agoNormally, you are protected in this situation by ebay
the type of return you are describing is fraudulent. (a buyer cannot return something that is different than what they received)
so in this situation, this is what to do
1. accept the return (presuming it is not some form of automatically generated return like auto parts)
2. upon receiving the item back, DO NOT SEND A REFUND OR DO ANYTHING WITH THE RETURN CASE immediately open it and inspect it. (you have 3 business days)
3. if the return is legit, send the refund.
4. If the return is fraudulent, such as in your reported situation (a different item was returned than what was shipped)
then go into the ebay system and "report the buyer" state your case clearly, matter of fact, emotionless......
5. Immediately after filing the report, reach out to ebay c.s. and report the same in regards to the return case.
the c.s. rep can see your report that you made already and can make a decision or hand it up the chain briefly and then resolve it usually within minutes.
It is imperative that you do this right away do not waste time you only have 3 business days to resolve it.
IF FOR SOME REASON, you are still instructed to refund then do so, normally this does not happen unless you are a pain in ebay's behind already (or your case was not good enough to sway it your way)
IF the case is decided where ebay covers the return without loss to you, then they will take over the case and you will not be required to refund and nothing will be counted against you. the case will be closed automatically.
the bottom line is you do have seller protections and you should make it a point to read over what is and what is not allowed in regards to returns, returning a different item is the most common type of fraudulent return.
colfaxstation
·1 week agoFile a case with the USPS for mail fraud if you shipped by USPS.
albertabrightalberta
·1 week ago@kakenetit2
Your listing has a 30 day return policy so you would have been able to deduct (probably 50%) from the refund had you refunded before ebay had to step in.
knightstac
·1 week agoThe eBay Buyer Protection program is very clearly exploited by buyers filing INAD claims, or for any other reason. Ebay provides no protections for the sellers, which I myself am both a buyer and seller on the platform for 20+ years with 100% positive feedback. I've had ebay grant refunds out of my pocket to buyers who purchase from me items STILL IN THE MANUFACTURER PACKAGING, claiming INAD. That's asinine and only promotes scandal on the platform at the cost of Sellers and no harm to eBay or Buyers. It's as if eBay has decided to be complicit with such behavior on the false pretense of "Buyer Protection." For that reason, I've pretty stopped listing items for sale on the platform - it's come to the point it costs me money to try and sell quality items. I used to enjoy trading on eBay, but that hasn't been for quite awhile now.
mam98031
·1 week ago@kakenetit2 Ebay does NOT "automatically" approve a Return request UNLESS you have your Site Preferences set up to allow that.
Most sellers approve their own Return Requests. The mere fact a Return Request claim gets filed does NOT mean it is approved by Ebay, it merely means the buyer has opened a claim.
Now if the item was returned to you and you did not issue the refund within the 2-3 day window, then the buyer can ask Ebay to step in and then Ebay would force the refund at the seller's expense. Not a good thing to do as Ebay doesn't refund the seller their selling fees when this happens and you get a defect on your account for not resolving a claim.
For the future there are other protections available to you that you apparently didn't use this time.
https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/protections/top-rated-program
Additional Seller Protections for Top Rated Sellers
We protect all sellers from abusive buying behavior and from events outside their control. Your track record matters on eBay, and we’ll support you when you deliver on your service promise and provide a good buying experience.
Top Rated Sellers who reside in the US and list on eBay.com receive additional protections benefits when they offer 30-day-or-longer returns.
Return shipping label credit for false “item not as described” claims
If a buyer falsely claims an item was “not as described,” we’ll protect you on eligible transactions. We’ll reimburse your return shipping label cost up to $6 per return. You’ll receive the return shipping label credit on your monthly invoice and we’ll automatically remove any defects and open cases in service metrics.
Up to 50% refund deduction for decreased value on used or damaged returns
When you issue a refund for an item that was returned after it was used or damaged by a buyer, and you have a track record of delivering on your service promise, we’ll give you the ability to protect yourself by deducting up to 50% of the refund to recover the decreased value of the item. If there are any issues with buyers that may negatively impact you, we’ll take care of them by removing any defects and open cases in service metrics.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115
Guidelines for how much to deduct from the refund
Here are some guidelines to help you determine how much to deduct from the buyer's refund.
Condition of return
Refund deduction guidance
Excellent condition:
Unused, undamaged, or unaltered
All items included in the original package
Factory or vacuum seal must not be broken/opened (if applicable)
Original tags included & attached (where applicable)
Must include provided certificates of authenticity, grading, or appraisal
No deductions
Good condition:
Missing original packaging
Factory or vacuum seal is broken/opened, but the item is still in its original condition
Original tags included but unattached
5%–10% deduction
Fair condition:
Missing parts
Some signs of wear or use
Item has been installed
Item has been registered or user has not logged out of the device's account, and it cannot easily be set back to factory settings
Original tags missing
15%–30% deduction
Poor condition:
Significant signs of wear, or significantly different than how it was shipped to the buyer
Missing essential parts
Item is damaged, scratched, defective, or requires service or repair
Missing provided certificates of authenticity, grading, or appraisal
Opened items that cannot be resold (perishables, liquor, makeup)
Sold multiple items but the buyer didn’t return all of them
35%–50% deduction
luckythewinner
·1 week agoThe protection you have is spelled out in the Seller Protection policy. Generally speaking, there is no protection from buyer fraud like this.
What you pictured in your listing does not prove anything about what you shipped. If it did, unscrupulous sellers would list pictures of ROlex watches and ship cheap Timex watches instead.
kakenetit2
OP1 week agoWhen you SELL a camera to a buyer, always include a photo of the serial number on the camera. If they return a camera that is defective with a different serial number, it's proof of mail fraud. Not sure what the heck you are talking about.
kakenetit2
OP1 week agoI'm a seller that got scammed, not a buyer.
gurlcat
·1 week agoBut how do we know you SHIPPED the same camera with the same serial number as your listing showed?
If that sounds like a ridiculous or rude question, you have no idea how many scam sellers there are on eBay. That is why eBay gives the 50% refund withholding loophole to sellers who offer free returns. It's kind of like no-fault insurance, where both sides lose "half" because eBay has no way to know who's telling the truth.
kensgiftshop
·1 week ago"I have serial number include in photos on the listing."
There's no way you can prove that is the camera you shipped.
There's not much protection for sellers.
If you offered 30 day returns, you could have deducted some from the refund.
broto_64
·1 week ago · EditedThat's just the way it goes, the fatigue is everywhere and ebay supports it. The only thing you can do is report the buyer, but you need to either issue a return label and give a refund upon delivery to you or issue the refund without requiring a return (and ebay will refund your selling fees) OR ebay will slap a defect upon thine account with no mercy and keep your selling fees too.
I believe you may be able to appeal the case after, but probably not since you approved everything... But if you do not approve it then maybe you can appeal it but ebay will deny your appeal instantly and still slap a defect upon thine account with no mercy (oh and charge you selling fees because you declined to approve the return).
It's a no win situation.
shire123
·1 week agoDepending on how things are set up returns can be auto approved by ebay (mine are) . I think you have to have free returns and maybe a certain certain selling history??? (Don't quote me on that).
With the auto approval the seller gets the choice of just refunding. If they don't a return label is generated. As the OP states they got the camera back but it is different.
The rest of your statement is correct though. There is not much the seller can do besides reporting the buyer for abuse of the return process. But having serial numbers doesn't help much because ebay never sees what you sent or what you got back and with pictures so easily being manipulated they just are not proof of anything.
The loss can be taken off of your taxes this year. Not much of a solution but at least it is something.
kennys-kollectibles
·1 week agoYeah, I don't think in most cases the loss can be taken off your taxes.
Only if you itemize everything.
I take the lump sum deduction because itemizing rarely comes to the total
they give you in standard deductions.
It's a total loss, like they robbed you.
And even if you could take a deduction, the percentage that it affects your
refund is minimal. That stolen item, is a full debit. You lose the full amount.
shire123
·1 week ago · Edited@kennys-kollectibles I guess I didn't consider that as I have always itemized with all the taxes we pay and then the significant ebay income with it's attendant costs the standard deduction never made sense to me. Our itemized deduction is always at least 50% higher than the standard deduction.
Last year for the heck of it I figured the taxes out using the standard deduction vs the itemized deduction. Itemizing saved us over $6000 in taxes.
Itemizing takes a bit more work and is actually pretty easy with the software programs out there. $6000 was definitely worth it.
powell-collectibles
·1 week agoYou all are talking about two very different things – standard deduction doesn’t have anything to do with eBay income.
Regardless – if one is using cash basis, there is no deduction at the end of the year for something like this. Your cash income has already been reduced by the reduction in the eBay payout. You don’t get to take it out twice. Once by eBay and then once by you at the end of the year on taxes.
mam98031
·1 week agoYou are correct, however if the item was purchased in this year the seller is filing taxes for, then the full cost of the item is a COGS [cost of good sold] even on a cash basis of accounting. So if the income off it may have been reduced by a partial refund or in full due to a full refund, the cost of the item is written off as a part of COGS.
powell-collectibles
·1 week agoI think you don’t quite understand what I was getting at – my fault for not being clear enough and simplifying it. It’s OK.
broto_64
·1 week agoEbay reduces our payout but in the 1099 the income box shows the TOTAL sales which does not account for any refunds.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 week agoWhen you calculate your gross profit on schedule C, the Total Sales reported on the 1099 is reduced by COGS and adjustment for returns. To yield your gross profit, from which you subtract your expenses.
kennys-kollectibles
·1 week agoyeah, I get that. I guess it depends on that itemizing factor. it works out for the better for you. It never has for me. So I use the standard deductions. Everyone will have to make that decision and work it out which is the better way to go for them.