Seagate VERO Claim. Looking for others affected
about 2 weeks ago Seagate send to VERO notification that 6 of listed by us hard drives are "counterfeit".
Well anyone dealing with computers would laugh on such statement since there is no ever any "fake" hard drives, since it would require multi billion dollar factory and access to suppliers and 1000s of engineers to do it
At least i never heard about such in my life. needless to say, i would doubt that someone in clear state of mind
would counterfeit old hard drives
I went to their own web site (Seagate) and used their VERIFICATION tool to verify all as genuine drives
So i went through FORTA reps and now dealing with Seagate. I think that could be a good potential legal case if i can find other people affected by such manipulative and bulling Segate corporate tactics . it is called class action lawsuit . if anyone been affected , please let me know
here is the latest message i sent to Seagate
O Seagate Technology LLC ATTN: Legal Department / Corporate Counsel
Subject: Rebuttal to Baseless Claims of Counterfeit Products and Demand for Relief
Dear Seagate Technology LLC,
This letter serves as a direct and formal response to your recent communication regarding the products I have listed for sale on eBay. I am extremely surprised by your message and, in over 30 years in the computer business, I have never encountered the concept of "counterfeit" hard drives, a notion which seems to defy the massive capital investment required for such manufacturing. Your claims are not only baseless but are also highly damaging.
Statement of Facts and Rebuttal
Your company filed a claim with eBay and VERO stating that the items are counterfeit based on a subjective assessment that they "appeared to be counterfeit." This is an illegal and fraudulent action. You have no factual evidence, and a "hunch" is not a legal basis for such a claim.
Your statement about a "discrepancy in product labeling" is false and misleading. These are used drives, and it is entirely natural for them to have scratches or blemishes that may affect the label. This is not evidence of fraud.
You have made these claims without ever having seen or physically examined the products in question. This makes your statement fraudulent and negligent.
One of the items you falsely and fraudulently labeled as "fake" was a large lot of hard drives, yet your claim was based on a single label you allegedly saw. This is illogical and demonstrates a lack of due diligence.
Evidence and Legality
I want to be unequivocally clear about the facts on my end:
My business is in e-waste recycling. We acquire all hard drives directly from customers we service. We do not purchase products from third-party suppliers, and we are not in possession of any fraudulent items.
Under the First Doctrine of Sale, we are legally entitled to resell any product we have lawfully obtained. How we received the products is not the business of Seagate.
I have diligently verified every single drive on your official website using your own verification tool. I have forwarded screenshots of these verifications to both your company and to FORTA.
My hourly rate for professional time is $249. We are now accounting for all hours spent to combat your false and fraudulent filings with FORTA and eBay.
Demand for Immediate Relief
Your fraudulent and negligent actions have resulted in a loss of business on eBay and have forced me to spend considerable time and resources addressing your unfounded claims. I demand immediate relief in monetary terms to cover both the time spent and the documented loss of business.
This email has been CC'd to the Seagate CEO (pr@seagate.com), your corporate counsel, and your public relations department. I have also notified them of my plan to issue a public relations release about your company's practices, to see who else has been affected, and to initiate a class-action lawsuit for false and fraudulent filings.
You have no right to accuse me of possessing "counterfeit" Seagate products without any evidence whatsoever. I am prepared to hire an independent expert to provide you with proof that these are absolutely genuine Seagate products. All associated costs will be paid by your firm via legal proceedings. I have not posted anything about this on social media yet, but I plan to do so next week, as your company has violated all ethical and legal standards.
Sincerely,
steve_stuff
·1 year agoThere are almost 43,000 used Seagate hard drives up on ebay right now, and almost 8,000 sold listings -
I would start contacting people who sold one or more and make a deal - They buy your cheapest item so you made a sale on ebay and are now allowed to make an off ebay sale with that person- ebay even gives you their mailing info - and then you dump them all on them.
christworks
·1 year agoYou are being paid by your clients to destroy those hard drives. Please, take this to trial so this can all come out, and your clients can be made fully aware of your unethical business practices.
albertabrightalberta
·1 year agoThe OP never said they were supposed to destroy them.
That was an assumption made by @slati_2013 in post #14.
svcheck
OP1 year agoThe OP never said they were supposed to destroy them.
That was an assumption made by @slati_2013 in post #14.
Thanks. i have replied as well.
one of my points that Seagate is actually hurting EBAY by harassing EBAY and sellers.
I am aiming to help EBAY and others
slippinjimmy
·1 year agoTwo comments/questions.......
1 - Please post the contents of the message that eBay sent you after the original take down. Some of the wording that you claim was used in the notification in no way matches what these notices usually contain.
2 - If you want to get the attention of Seagate that message you posted earlier and sent to Seagate is NOT the way. You want their attention? Send them a Counter Notice, hope they back down but be aware that they could force you into an actual court action that could be quite costly for you.
https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/the-digital-millennium-copyright-act-dmca/dmca-counter-notice-process/
svcheck
OP1 year ago>you are being paid by your clients to destroy those hard drives. Please, take this to trial so this can all come >out, and your clients can be made fully aware of your unethical business practices.
lol, i am curious how do y know what deal we had with our clients to begin with. second, even if we have a such a request from our client, it is to destroy DATA , not a drive. it is done by DATA WIPING
gator08041971
·1 year ago@svcheck
even if we have a such a request from our client, it is to destroy DATA , not a drive. it is done by DATA WIPING
While I will agree that you hadn't stated the terms of your procurement of used hard drives, I will say from my past 30+ years in the PC business, there are times where destruction of the drive is required, regardless of our knowledge of how to properly erase drives without having to physically destroy them.
One of the local financial institutions I work with occasionally, always has me physically destroy the drive when they retire a PC. It has to be done on premise with witnessed and signed for. The PC itself can be recycled, however it must have all labeling removed from the casing. Any hardware used within their networking/server/connections must be physically destroyed when replaced however.
So yes, there are some rules in place for destruction over deletion. Always make sure you know those for any entity you take in used electronics from. Its highly advisable to fulfill their requests in that manner. But that's all I have to say about that.
With regards to the comments about "fake" drives. While yes its very likely that a drive can be "relabeled" and even have its firmware modified so that it detects and looks like a different drive, there are going to be manufacturing marks that will clarify where its actually made.
This already occurs with many other PC parts, like GPUs for example. Where they change the firmware to make it detect as a different class and model of card than it actually is, things like this. No different for hard drives. Hard drives can even have their usage reset, their firmware modified to hide previous failures, or even to change what model/size they are according to the OS. Till you try to use the drive and then it fails.
Not unheard of, but not very common either. In my 30+ years, I have never personally encountered a "fake" drive. I have encountered many "recycled by manufacturer" drives, but those were done by the manufacturer, and were properly labeled as such.
I have encountered fake external drives a few times however. These are usually the USB thumb drives, that sort of thing. Those are extremely common. You can even get them from Amazon occasionally.
As for this particular thread and its situation.
I would have to agree with some of the others. Never go off making claims you aren't completely sure about. I know you might think you do, but again putting yourself into a hard line stance on one aspect of your situation could lead to a point where it will backfire on you. Fakes are completely possible. Highly unlikely, but possible.
Lastly, I understand how frustrating it can be when you get a Vero claim. I have had one myself. Only one fortunately, but nevertheless, I had one. I had made the mistake of using an OEM stock photo for a brand new HP toner cartridge I was selling. That was flagged, the listing was taken down. I replaced the photo with pictures of the actual new sealed package and relisted. No more issues since.
Good luck with your efforts.
estate_echoes
·1 year agoI would like to add that OP should use AI to 'explain why I should not proceed with a case.'
Using AI to draft a legal argument without understanding the limitations is a really bad idea.
svcheck
OP1 year ago>With regards to the comments about "fake" drives. While yes its very likely that a drive can be "relabeled" >and even have its firmware modified so that it detects and looks like a different drive, there are going to be >manufacturing marks that will clarify where its actually made.
In this particular case there is NOTHING changed on it - no firmware, no labels nothing and in fact again, there are multiple drives
>This already occurs with many other PC parts, like GPUs for example. Where they change the firmware to >make it detect as a different class and model of card than it actually is, things like this. No different for >hard drives. Hard drives can even have their usage reset, their firmware modified to hide previous failures, >or even to change what model/size they are according to the OS. Till you try to use the drive and then it >fails.
Corect, i have see some of that, but not fake hard drives
> In my 30+ years, I have never personally encountered a "fake" drive. I have encountered many "recycled >by manufacturer" drives, but those were done by the manufacturer, and were properly labeled as such.
Correct , never seen one either and never heard about one
>I have encountered fake external drives a few times however. These are usually the USB thumb drives, that >sort of thing. Those are extremely common. You can even get them from Amazon occasionally.
Well, it is completely different, it is easy to make thumb drive, what they do is to receive defectuive (rejected QA) chips and build flash drive. this can be done in garage. but not a hard drive
>Lastly, I understand how frustrating it can be when you get a Vero claim. I have had one myself. Only one >fortunately, but nevertheless, I had one. I had made the mistake of using an OEM stock photo for a brand >new HP toner cartridge I was selling. That was flagged, the listing was taken down. I replaced the photo >with pictures of the actual new sealed package and relisted. No more issues since.
This is fist VERO encounter in the years.. One before was couple of years ago with Phillips which i won
svcheck
OP1 year agoShort update
Seagate back out sending me the message :
--------------------------------
Thank you for your message. If you believe that the products you have listed are legitimate, I recommend continuing to work directly with eBay to resolve this matter.
Best Regards,
Wesley
Seagate Corporate Response Team
-----------------
Would be great if i can find more people so we can initiate a class auction against Seagate
i replied:
eagate Technology LLC ATTN: Legal Department / Corporate Counsel
Subject: Re: Rebuttal to Baseless Claims of Counterfeit Products and Demand for Relief
Dear Seagate Technology LLC,
I have received your response to my previous letter and am astonished by your suggestion that I "work with eBay directly" to resolve this issue. This response is not only unhelpful, but it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation you have created. By suggesting this course of action, you are essentially confirming that Seagate has no evidence to support its false accusations, thereby committing fraud and causing damages.
To be perfectly clear, you are the party that filed the false and fraudulent VERO claim with eBay via FORTA (tms@phishlabs.com). You are the party that is alleging these products are counterfeit without any evidence. eBay is merely the platform where your claims have been executed. Therefore, the responsibility to provide evidence for your claims, or to retract them, lies squarely with Seagate, not with me or with eBay. Your refusal to engage and provide the necessary documentation is a further act of negligence and will be noted as such. I demand that you immediately contact FORTA to rectify this situation.
As stated previously, I have verified every product using your own official website tool and have screenshots as proof of their authenticity. Your claims of "discrepancies" are completely unsubstantiated and appear to be based on nothing more than a guess, which is illegal and unethical.
Due to your continued inaction and the false claims you have made, I am now proceeding with my plans to seek immediate monetary relief for the loss of business and professional time spent on this matter. Your dismissive response has left me no choice but to move forward with a public relations release and to initiate a class-action lawsuit against Seagate for your fraudulent and negligent filings.
I urge you one last time to provide a substantive response with the requested evidence, or to retract your claims immediately and work with me to remedy the damages you have caused.
Sincerely,
slippinjimmy
·1 year agoThat response from Seagate is hilarious,
I recommend continuing to work directly with eBay to resolve this matter
eBay in no way will work with you once a Vero / DMCA takedown has happened. eBay will tell you that you have to work it out with Seagate.
FYI - Still waiting for you to post the text of the original Vero takedown notification.
svcheck
OP1 year agoThis statement is even funnier
"If you believe that the products you have listed are legitimate"...
And this is coming from SEAGATE..
about original VERO - i posted it earlier
slippinjimmy
·1 year agoI reviewed the entire thread, didn't see it. Could you tell me the Post Number so I can read it?
a_c_green
·1 year agoThat's up to a judge to decide, once you've filed your case. I assume you are being guided by an attorney in the messages that you're showing us here...?
Okay, you need to have all your details straight when waving your sword around, and the name of the patent troll is not FORTA but FORTRA (formerly Phishlabs).
I would suggest at this point (because I think you threatened this before in your previous message to them) that you focus on things that you have done, rather than what you are threatening to do Real Soon Now. I believe this is the second time round for that threat of doing a PR release. Your attorney would probably also tell you to stop talking about it in public, but that's up to him. Good luck.
svcheck
OP1 year ago>That's up to a judge to decide, once you've filed your case. I assume you are being guided by an attorney >in the messages that you're showing us here...?
it is not that simple .. you need to have some evidence of them doing it to others...
>Okay, you need to have all your details straight when waving your sword around, and the name of the >patent troll is not FORTA but FORTRA (formerly Phishlabs).
Yes, sorry, misspelled..
continentalcollectibles
·1 year agorobbie31415
·1 year agoI don't know why we keep talking about first sale doctrine as it doesn't apply to sites like eBay.
You can use it in a court as a defense, sure.
But you don't have a right to sell it on eBay.
Also, I'm pretty sure they didn't say it was actually fake or courtetfiet.
All they need is suspicion, and eBay allows this.
So your rights haven't been violated, you are free to sell it on another site.
Or can we make class action against eBay for not allowing me to sell my Dr. Seuss books. I have first sale doctrine to sell them.
a_c_green
·1 year agoI don't know why we're talking about First Sale Doctrine when the Seagate complaint seems to be about whether the drives were counterfeit. The OP has stated that he used Seagate's own verification process to show that they are genuine, and thus their complaint is not supported by the facts and they should withdraw it.
Well, the OP's reply seems to indicate that that was indeed their claim.
That's not the same issue that's involved here. The Seuss estate requested that certain titles be withdrawn from sale here, and eBay apparently agreed to that. This dispute with Seagate involves whether the used drives were authentic.
@svcheck : Can you post the original complaint from Seagate (with personal information removed of course)? That might help to clarify what they're asking about and what they're not asking about.
robbie31415
·1 year agoYou didn't see the intention apparently and focused on the literal.
As someone who has gotten multiple Veros, they have never used wording to say it is actually fake or counterfiet, but may be or could be.
As I stated eBay doesn't require evidence that it is, just that there is suspicion.
"eBay’s Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program offers intellectual property rights owner(s) a way to report listings that they believe infringe on their rights "
Keyword is "believe". Doesn't matter if its actually is.
The point of the books was to show that FIRST SALE DOCTRINE does not apply here.
If it did then I could sue eBay for not allowing me to sell the books that I have the right under the first sale doctrine to sell.
But i, nor anyone else has a right to sell anything on eBay. Unless you can prove eBay is discriminating against a protected class.
However, i doubt the OP could make that claim.
So really the OP has no legal claim from what I can see.
a_c_green
·1 year agoI'm focusing on what was stated by the OP. A number of tangents resulted in the following replies. The OP squarely addressed what was described as a charge of selling counterfeit hardware.
Yes, I'm well aware of that, but when the complaint is addressed as the OP did, then his next recourse is to push back on the complaining party. Notice that the reply is aimed at Seagate, not at eBay (who don't have a dog in this fight, but are not going to allow the listings to be restored unless the complainant says so).
First Sale Doctrine is a whole different argument, based on stipulating that the articles are genuine but arguing that the seller had no right to (re)sell them. In this case Seagate is apparently claiming that the items are counterfeit, and the OP is prepared to prove that they're not (or already has done so).
svcheck
OP1 year agoIt is not about eBay
ebay simply act on VERO claim and they have to. My issues is with fraudulent report submitted by SEAGATE
Purpose of this post is to find more people affected ONLY by Seagate claims. I need it for legal purposes
svcheck
OP1 year ago>I don't know why we're talking about First Sale Doctrine when the Seagate complaint seems to be about >whether the drives were counterfeit. The OP has stated that he used Seagate's own verification process to >show that they are genuine, and thus their complaint is not supported by the facts and they should >withdraw it.
Correct. Seagate filed claim that we sell COUNTERFEIT (FAKE) hard drives, which is a joke. Naturally we don't and what would be a the even a poinmt to sell like 6 different models of the FAKE hard drives dated back years ago
>Well, the OP's reply seems to indicate that that was indeed their claim.
That is EXACTLY what they claimed. It is standard VERO claim. There are no other VERO claims can be done
>That's not the same issue that's involved here. The Seuss estate requested that certain titles be withdrawn >from sale here, and eBay apparently agreed to that. This dispute with Seagate involves whether the used >drives were authentic.
Seagate has no meaning to tell to ebay to stop seling second hand hard drives. It is again goes to First Doctrine of Sales
@svcheck : Can you post the original complaint from Seagate (with personal information removed of course)? That might help to clarify what they're asking about and what they're not asking about.
of course - =- it is VERO claim and all VERO claims have a standard verbage:
Thank you for writing the eBay Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program back in regard to the removal of your listings:
186515277170 176440398202 186514997209 175520355188 175278811276 175163424424 184480580930 184480557518
We’re sorry to hear that you have not received a response to your inquiries from the rights owner, Seagate Technologies LLC (tms@phishlabs..com).
We are happy to try to contact the rights owner and ask them to respond to you. Please reply back to us to confirm that you agree with us sharing your username and registered email address with the rights owner when reaching out to them.
simba6
·1 year agoA counterfeit hard drive? They can tell that by looking at an eBay listing. Yea right.
Many companies don't like their items selling in venues like this. Sort of like Purina seeing their pet food being sold at a Cajun rules dog fight.
Used resold merchandise can harm the brand name too. Don't know what condition it is of when it will fail. So they can and do throw their weight around with VERO abuse.
funfactorychannel
·1 year agoProbably the same company that Puma hired to help them fight counterfeits.
Vero them first and let see where things land. It backfired on Puma.
slippinjimmy
·1 year agoSome info here about rampant fraud over Seagate HDD's
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/hdds/seagates-fraudulent-hdd-scandal-expands-ironwolf-pro-hard-drives-also-affected
I am not suggesting that you are one of these recyclers involved in this fraud but Seagate may suspect that you are or that you are obtaining inventory from those that do.
svcheck
OP1 year agoLOL
y should at least read that article. It is about selling USED as NEW and has nothing to do with Segate claiming it is fake. These are all genuine drives, just resold as new which is of course fraudulent by SELLER, but it is not a copyright infringement. Another thing that they (sellers) modified firmware to get warranty status, but again it is a different story
Drives in my case made like 10 years old and has notjing to do with these modern ones
slati_2013
·1 year agoI am pretty sure that whoever sent you these hard drives to be recycled wanted you to destroy them. Not to put them back up for sale. The First-sale Doctrine does not apply here. You were not sold these items. They were given to you and paid for to be destroyed. Some items can indeed be recycled, but hard drives contain sensitive information that a determined person can recover. Seagate's lawyers will get the company who gave you the hard drives to show up in court to testify you were given the drives to be destroyed. Not to be resold.
The only known way to prevent the information on a hard from being recovered is to physically destroy it. Torn apart. Can't be put back together even by the CIA. Do your job and destroy them.
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year agoI didn’t even notice that part of this.
Plus the idea that they’re going to bill Seagate for their time fighting a claim when Seagate has the right to file such a claim enshrined in law.
svcheck
OP1 year agoWell, y will see
I am going after Phillips now. they confirmed that they made a fake report and restored my listings. issue is that they are not local, unlike Seagate
svcheck
OP1 year agoy are very wrong
read about data wiping. and Seagate has nothing to do with it
gone.c-33
·1 year agoOh to be a fly on the wall when Seagate’s legal team reads your letter. 😂
Any valuable computer part manufactured in China has counterfeits, manufactured in China as well. They don’t need thousands of engineers and the factories are right there. The same factory will ship out genuine items for months then start pumping out fakes using the same assembly lines but inferior materials and little to no quality assurance.
It started with thumb drives 20 years ago and moved on to other parts.
Its actually worrisome than anyone who has been in the computer business for 30 years would not know this.
a_c_green
·1 year agoWell, they're claiming that he was actually selling counterfeits, to which he replies, "I have diligently verified every single drive on your official website using your own verification tool. I have forwarded screenshots of these verifications to both your company and to FORTA."
I'm curious who FORTA is... a patent troll company? We've heard of numerous such dubious outfits, who send out "cartooney" threats (as we used to call them, back in the day) to any and all sellers of a given brand, apparently getting paid on the basis of the number of threats they send out, hoping that a seller will capitulate rather than challenge them to prove their demands in court. (I'm not referring to the Schedule A sharks, who are a slightly more recent development, and don't seem to have been mentioned in this case.)
svcheck
OP1 year agoi already replied about FORTA, suprised you never heard about them
they do most VERO for all brands
FORTA is one interacting with ebay on behalf of most rights owners
a_c_green
·1 year agoI'm not surprised; I just sell vintage items, nothing in an area that would attract patent trolls. However, these threats have been issued by a wide variety of fly-by-night fleabag outfits over the years; as I said, they get paid for the number of sellers they can locate and the threats (hoping for out-of-court settlements) they can issue. One will pop up and send out a barrage of letters, then disappear and another will take its place. (I remember one who was so filtered by eBay due to abuse reports that they were reduced to sending recipients an image of a generic threatening letter so that eBay couldn't detect the wording.)
Generally the last thing they want is to have to actually pay real attorneys to actually drag eBay sellers into court (again, I am not including the Schedule A Defendant cases here; those came about in more recent years).
That aside, this thread seems to have lost its focus a bit. You said that the letter was just accusing you of selling counterfeits, and you state in reply that you have verified them as genuine using Seagate's own authentication website, so that should address their complaint head-on. Others here have said that you were reselling equipment that was supposed to be destroyed, but I see nothing in what you've posted so far to suggest that that was ever an issue or that such an agreement with your supplier(s) was ever made.
If or when you post a press release or social-media post about this next week, please post a link to it here so that we can all read it.
svcheck
OP1 year agoy are wrong. to make hard drives y need parts from other companies
about fly on the wall - lol, we will see. it is not my first rodeo and i deal before with HP, IBM and few others. recently made Phillips apologize and restore my listings
gone.c-33
·1 year agoPlenty of fake Ironwolf hard drives out there amongst others. Not sure why you’re deadest against believing they’re out there. Whether they’re made using fake parts or by labeling inferior products with Seagate labeling doesn’t matter, they EXIST.
Nothing off my back if you don’t want to believe me but if you’re gonna threaten the legal dpt of a company such as seagate, you better come correct.
svcheck
OP1 year agoTwo things:
1. Ironwolf story is NOT about fake hard drives. these are genuine drive made by Seagate, just some sellers modify FIRMWARE to sell it as new vs used. this is not what i would consider a counterfeit product
2. My one is not even remotely related to that story and made like 10 and more years ago
svcheck
OP1 year agoy are wrong.. there is no way to make counterfeit hard drive, like there is no way to make counterfeit intel cpu
gone.c-33
·1 year agoIt’s quite easy actually, you take a cheap dupe and stick an intel sticker on it.
svcheck
OP1 year agoLOL, make Intel CPU as cheap dupe? LOL
gone.c-33
·1 year agoI don’t know what “story†you’re referring to.
And yes, dupes. They look like the real thing to the untrained eye but they’re just a shell made of cheap materials that may or may not function with fake intel markings printed on them packaged in fake intel boxes.
Just like fake AirPods, fake labubus, supplements. I even remember the fake iPhones when the iPhone first came out. If there’s a market for it and fast money to be made, China will come up with a counterfeit.
Im not saying you’re selling fakes. What I’m saying is that if you’re coming at Seagate telling you can’t be selling fakes because no such thing exists, they’re not gonna take anything you say seriously.
svcheck
OP1 year agodupes..lol
open hard drive and take a look. no one can do it
pods and etc - no big deal. not a hard drive..
gone.c-33
·1 year agoAre you being intentionally obtuse? That’s what I’m saying, a dupe LOOKS like the real thing on the outside but when you open it/run diagnostics on it, you realize it’s not the true item.
Seems like you just enjoy your argue, you probably get a kick out of sending legal threats to big companies and call their settling with you to get rid of you “winningâ€.
a_c_green
·1 year agoJust curious: who is FORTA?
svcheck
OP1 year agoFORTA is one interacting with ebay on behalf of most rights owners
toysaver
·1 year ago"anyone dealing with computers would laugh on such statement since there is no ever any "fake" hard drives"
According to google it's a growing concern.
"it would require multi billion dollar factory and access to suppliers and 1000s of engineers to do it"
Can you spell C H I N A .
svcheck
OP1 year agonever seen even one counterfeited drive . and haven't seen Chinese made one either. in order to make one, you will have to buy parts not just from Seagate buy slew of other companies, like disks, substrates, heads and etc
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoSome companies don't want their items sold on Ebay, or other sites.
They have no idea if the ones you are selling are legit or not, so they have Ebay pull the listings.
bashort
·1 year agosome people do not give a flip what some companies want.
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoRight, and it usually doesn't end well,.
bashort
·1 year agomany companies want to maintain complete control of the items that they manufacture, they want to tell you what you can use it for, how long you can use it and do not want the item ever sold or repaired.
Many manufacturers are wanting consumers pay a monthly fee forever to use the item.
There disgusting practices need to be bushed back against at every chance.
svcheck
OP1 year agoWell, i care less what Seagate want and will prove it here and on ebay later. I know the laws and have violated nothing.
I had a same with HP a year ago, asked them for their legal department and they run away
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoI note that you sell both new and used products.
Which opens more questions as to whether there is a legitimate infringement complaint.
If these drives were offered as used, I have a hard time seeing how you would have infringed on Seagate's IP.
On the other hand, if these drives were offered as New and if they did not qualify for the Seagate Warranty because you are not an authorized reseller for the brand, the First Sale Doctrine is not likely to lead to an easy end to this dispute.
Note that lawyers for big corporations rarely make an out right claim of counterfeit. They usually say something like "may be counterfeit" which generates exactly the same response from internet marketplaces.
IMO if there are any grounds for an IP infringement claim, your response has made it more difficult to make it go away.
svcheck
OP1 year agoDrives in question are old.
You are mistaken about someone else inability to sell new products (short of any software related issues), if you have LEGITAMATE item - meaning it is not stolen or etc, you can sell it - new or used.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoYou are mistaken if you think that invoking the first sale doctrine will allow you to prevail without a trial should the manufacturer decide to sue you.
You are unlikely to get a dismissal. There is a huge volume of precedents under the first sale doctrine of which many are inconsistent. Be prepared for having to pay significant legal fees to defend yourself if sued. If you win, you might recover them.
It is common to file infringement suits with hundreds of defendants, each of which will have to defend themself. The plaintiff will usually experience a much lower attorney's fee per defendant. This is not a battle of equals in any way. Defendants may be added to an existing suit, helping the plaintiff keep their costs down.
This is the reason why lawyers usually advise sellers charged with infringement to settle, and most do.
Seagate requires identification of the authorized seller of a new item in order to register their warranty. I have registered their warranties.
New items have warranties. Convincing a judge or jury that an item is new without the warranty is difficult if not impossible. If you are not authorized and selling as new, you are on shaky ground.
svcheck
OP1 year ago>You are mistaken if you think that invoking the first sale doctrine will allow you to prevail without a trial >should the manufacturer decide to sue you.
Well, it is correct, providing that is not a
>It is common to file infringement suits with hundreds of defendants, each of which will have to defend >themself. The plaintiff will usually experience a much lower attorney's fee per defendant. This is not a battle >of equals in any way. Defendants may be added to an existing suit, helping the plaintiff keep their costs >down.
I do not see the way that Seagate or anyone else can sue under "infringement" of selling used product. I have never heard about such
>Seagate requires identification of the authorized seller of a new item in order to register their warranty. I >have registered their warranties.
I am not offering any warranties and never stated that these are warrantied by Seagate (needless to say like 10+ years old". Naturally any new drives may not be warrantied by Seagate if not purchased directly or via an authorized dealer. Same with all other electronics, but it has nothing again to do with infringement
>New items have warranties. Convincing a judge or jury that an item is new without the warranty is difficult if >not impossible. If you are not authorized and selling as new, you are on shaky ground.
Do not see infringement there. Anyone, including yourself, can buy and sell a product. Warranty may or may not be transferable.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoThe fact that you fail to recognize the risk you are taking makes it likely you will find yourself in need of legal counsel. Perhaps you might pay a knowledgeable and experienced attorney to tell you what will happen when you are sued and they will recommend as actions, as well as what the bill might be.
You are damaging the IP rights and reputation of the manufacturer by representing product which is not covered by the warranty as new. And a court will rule that way of the case goes to trial most of the time.
First sale doctrine was created to allow the creation of lending libraries, and expanded by a variety of judgements, not laws passed by Congress. Precedents are often poorly written and inconsistent, but the overall goal is to protect the consumer. Even being able to buy used goods is intended to benefit the consumer.
See a lawyer sooner rather than later. It will be cheaper.
svcheck
OP1 year agoy are very confused
i have no risk there as i know what we sell
issue is to find more sellers affected by Seagate. that was the whole point of posting here
iamalwaysright
·1 year agosounds like seagate just doesn't want people reselling their hard drives. I sold alot of them back in the early 2000's didn't have any issues then. But that was like 20 years ago.
hartungcards
·1 year agoYou lost me at, "needless to sya, i wou,l,d dount that someone in clear state of mind would counterfacit old hard drives."
svcheck
OP1 year agoi fixed the spelling errors