Scrubber bot getting overzealous about words in listing titles
This is not a plea for advice, just sharing an experience and wondering what sellers' thoughts are, or if you've encountered this before.
Occasionally I have gotten an alert upon hitting 'List' -usually because I forgot an I.S. or maybe had something like "Native American" in the title, and the alert just required me to affirm that the item really was authentically N.A. I think MAYBE I have even had it question whether I chose the correct category for an item or two based on the title (not even sure if I recall that) ....
................ but I definitely don't recall it ever BLOCKING me from listing anything as titled.
But that's exactly what's happening with this listing. There's no "I acknowledge" box to check or anything like that, only the choice to remove the word 'clock' or change the category to clocks.
Now you can see why I included 'Clock' -because it looks like a tiny old school bedside alarm clock. I'm actually willing to pay the 25 cents fee to list this piece in both 'Watches' and 'Necklaces' because it is both of those. But I am not trying to pass off a watch as a clock, to pay a cheaper FVF or trick buyers (I even clarified in the description that this is not really an alarm clock, in case it wasn't obvious to the stupidest imaginable person).
Obviously it's not vital that I include the word 'clock' in the title, but it does disturb me that I literally CANNOT. Since when did sellers not have the discretion to title listings as we see fit, knowing that they could be taken down by eBay employees based on THEIR discretion? Are we now at the mercy of very stupid software to judge whether a non-vulgar word is even allowed to be used in the first place?
-If hard wall listing blockage based on crappily-"trained" bot criteria is the new norm, it's going to cause major problems. There are countless "things" that look like other "things" or just include those other things as descriptors. Table lamp. Bed skirt. Nail gun. Let your imagination run wild.
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year agoSo I just ran into an issue with the scrubber bot, but a very different type of problem identified (the same root cause, though, A.I. that can't recognize a single bit of nuance).
I just tried to list a movie called "I Don't Buy Kisses Anymore" (featuring Jason Alexander, I'd never heard of it, but it appears to be a romantic comedy).
eBay thought I was trying to offer to sell or buy off of eBay, based on the title from what I could determine, specifically the word "Buy".
We didn't try to work around it, it's not that valuable of a disc and we might be able to sell it some other way, ironically, but it just made me crack up, and reminded me of this thread.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoOkay that's actually way more insane than my example, because I could live without 'clock' in my title, but yours ..... how could you POSSIBLY title a listing for something that already has an established industry TITLE of its own?!!!
What do you think of this @wastingtime101 @valueaddedresource ? -Bot blocking a MOVIE title.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoMy first suggestion would be to enter UPC because it would probably link to eBay product page and title would no longer be an issue because it would already be existing/accepted.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoYou don't even need UPC. I started a new listing and typed in DVD I Don't Buy Kisses Anymore and viola:
gurlcat
OP1 year agoI tried it and got the same thing, but I had to hit that blue Search button.
Here's how you can list that DVD @jonathanbrightlight .
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year ago@wastingtime101 that’s the insane part of this I forgot. I did enter the UPC, and I used the entry in the eBay Catalog, and it STILL rejected it. Mind-blowingly weird.
Edit: tagging @gurlcat too.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoYeah, that's weird.
Was it a flat out block, or was it just a warning you could click past? Sometimes I'll get warnings for things that don't apply so I ignore them and continue on to publish.
If it was a complete block I'd click the ? on the lower right of the page and report, in detail, what happened. Say you entered UPC [number], selected the product catalog entry, and your listing was blocked for [copy/paste error message].
I'd also try to "sell one like this" from another seller's active listing.
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year agoComplete block, no way to bypass it. Red banner at the top just like the image that started this thread, just the different warning.
I’ll do that after the weekend.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoPLease update here if you remember. That's wild that it blocked something from their own catalog. I just checked and there are tons of listings for this movie -and not just DVD's but VHS, laserdisk, even posters and press photos.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@jonathanbrightlight
More testimony, as if any is needed here on eBay, that AI is a "work in progress."
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year ago@fbusoni , I would suspect this may not be AI but just a much more rudimentary algorithm, searching only for specific keywords or phrases depending on the listing category and perhaps a few other factors. These types of issues certainly predate the known use of AI by eBay for this purpose.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@jonathanbrightlight
Good point... I have to remind myself to not give eBay's crack engineering team too much credit for "innovation." 🙂
bbcardzman
·1 year agoI had a strange one where someone from Canada could not purchase my item because LOT was in the title. Once I removed it, they could buy it. EBay could not figure out what was going on. Now I'm wondering if I should remove this word from the other 400 listings I have it in.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoThat's intentional @bbcardzman.
With eBay International Shipping, they have to fill out customs paperwork including using HTS codes to identify the item in the listing.
Because "lot" is often used by sellers for bundles of different items, and those items can have all different HTS codes, eBay restricts anything with the word "lot" in the title from eBay International Shipping eligibility.
If what you're selling is all the same item - like a "lot of 10 DVDs" - then it's OK to remove the word from the title and instead say 10 DVDs.
I looked at some of your listings and you are one of few sellers using "lot" (multiples of the same item) and "bundle" (group of different items) the way eBay defines those terms. Unfortunately other sellers don't follow the same practice, which means you'll have to remove "lot" to make those listings eligible for eIS.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoA few years ago a Russian buyer bought one of my mixed jewelry lots through EIS but they wouldn't forward it from Illinois (edit: might have still been the one before EIS, poop why can't I remember the name now? 'Global Shipping Something'). Anyway they just refunded the buyer out of their revenues and about a month later I saw the lot (my photos, my title, my description) for sale by another seller. You're probably aware of them. I am so curious to know how much they pay for not only the inventory but all the listing data, so they can be nothing but forwarding mules themselves basically. LOL they don't even open the packages to inspect them, just slap a new label over the original one that took the item to Illinois.
Anyway I wonder why the Russian buyer was able to buy that lot at all. Also I wonder why international buyers who can't buy this or that can even SEE the listings. Seems like that would be a frustrating buyer experience if it happened over and over; I know I'd hate to waste my time looking at listings and making up my mind, only to get rejected at the payment point.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@gurlcat
That's very interesting to me. Have you been able to sell previously to buyers in Russia?
Almost makes me wonder if eBay has an Interpol "wanted-list" of sports in its databases and rather than deprive you of the funds, decided to act as a "mule" to protect you personally from some sort problem for interacting -- even indirectly -- with a shady character.
gurlcat
OP1 year agobbcardzman
·1 year agoSure wish that they would let other reps know this so I just don't get - We have no idea what happened?
Wonder what other words I can't use? Would be great to know, but eBay sure won't help!
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year agoI've had multiple times where "Lot of" triggered a block for international buyers, but just "Lot" did not, but other times where that was not the case. It seems to be either more random or more specific than only the word "Lot", although that's definitely a factor and often just removing it works, like you found.
mypalrocco
·1 year agoWhich seems pointless to flag you for since they've made it harder to search by category now anyway by removing the category directly from listings. So, like, who cares anymore what category we use? Not to mention that they have items that fit under several categories but when you enter the search criteria for a specific item, it will only show the items in one category that eBay thinks should be the primary category, and it excludes the results that may have been listed in other categories so you'll never see them. eBay is a complete sh*tshow now, I almost can't stand using it anymore!
ittybitnot
·1 year agoby removing the category directly from listings.
@mypalrocco
If we are talking about the same thing, eBay didn't "remove it"...they put it at the bottom of the page. In order to reach the bottom of the page you have to scroll, scroll some more, and even more through the hundreds of promoted listings to actually get there.
I do not know if the item is listed in more than one category if they show that information though. It was never available on the app in the past, only on desktop view if two categories were involved.
mypalrocco
·1 year agoDid you know that you can't actually get to the bottom? I mean you can scroll all the way down and I think ever so briefly I was able to see the categories that you spoke of flash on the screen before the sidebar jumps up to show you more unrelated trash and sponsored listings. But you can't see the bottom long enough to read or click the categories, I'm not even 100% sure those were categories I saw. Like a bottomless pit, perpetually falling into the abyss. Unreal...
Did I mention that I can barely stand eBay anymore? What a steaming pile they've turned this platform into.
worldcoinauctions
·1 year agoI've been blocked from listing the name of the emir of a country because the name sounded "Iranian" although the coin was from Libya. Had to take the emir's name out of the title, but I was able to put it in the listing.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoNow THAT is interesting in more ways than one. Thanks for recalling it.
ittybitnot
·1 year agoI've been blocked from listing the name of the emir of a country because the name sounded "Iranian" although....
@worldcoinauctions
FWIW
That is interesting to me since "Persian Jewelry" is apparently allowed. There is a certain style I like, but just to take a look I entered a basic search for "jewelry Persia"...which eBay changed to Persian jewelry, 2100 results, and just by perusing page 1 there were a couple with IRAN in the title.
@gurlcat
Thanks so much for reporting the results of your "science" experiment.
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year agoI don't remember what the last thing I tried to list that gave me a block like that was, but I have run into this a few times before and it is definitely frustrating and sometimes nonsensical.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoHave you tried listing in the necklace category exclusively, then adding the secondary watch category as an edit after it's live?
Wondering if you'd face the same block. I assume you would, but I've seen things behave as you wouldn't expect once the listing was already live and figured I'd ask.
I'm also interested to know about Liz's question regarding auction or fixed price format.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoNow that it's live in both categories, will it let you edit the title to add alarm clock pendant?
gurlcat
OP1 year agoI had not tried that, but you know I'll do anything for science, so I end/SS'd the listing and gave it a whirl.
Step 1 ('alarm clock' back in the title and only 'Necklace' category) - WORKED
Step 2 (editing to add the 'Watch' category) -NOPE, blocked again.
Now, one interesting thing to note is the difference between which category you choose as the 'primary' and 'secondary' categories, because the I.S.'s are based only on the primary one, which in this case was Necklaces. Also, there is no sitewide sub-category for "necklace watches;" it's only an I.S. (a required one) for the sub-category of 'Other Watches' (other than wrist or pocket watches, that is).
So I decided to see what would happen if I swapped the primary and secondary categories, or rather just starting with the Watch category only, no secondary category.
And that experiment stopped there, because it got the listing block.
abethkap
·1 year agoHave you tried a qualifying word in the title? Like 'Alarm Clock Shape' or 'Alarm Clock Look' ? It's a really cute pendant/watch- I've never seen one like it.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoThank you. Nah I'm not gonna die on the "alarm clock" hill. I decided the characters would just as efficiently be used for 'mechanical Swiss' instead.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoHere's another one by the same company, made as a brooch instead of necklace. But they're both really flawed in a way I've never seen before. -Most of these 'body jewelry' watches are made upside-down, so that the wearer can easily glance down to see the time. But these are better suited for giving someone else the time, LOL.
abethkap
·1 year agoOK, if you are not going to die on the alarm clock hill, I guess that leaves me to do it. Check out the completed price on this listing: Vintage Montreluxe Pendant Necklace Watch Women Alarm Clock Shape Manual Wind.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoWhoa, STELLAR sleuthing, holy cow! Hey @wastingtime101 @valueaddedresource check this out.
This is the Sold item referenced. And it was listed in Jewelry and Watches > Watches & Parts> Watches> Other watches (just like I tried to list mine)
So, seeing as that was March 17, this would be the perfect chance to see if the bot scrutiny I faced was newer than that. I plugged that^ exact title into a brand new listing from scratch, with the same category choice. And check it out: LISTED it, no hiccups.
So apparently just tacking the word 'Shape' after 'Clock' calls off the dogs, ha. Maybe they're not so stupid after all.
@abethkapNow the question is, did that other watch pendant sell for such a nice price because 'Alarm Clock Shape' was in the title, or because of other factors (brand, seller having loyal followers, who knows?). Also I'd be curious to know how long it took to sell. I'm a very impatient seller, lol. I can't explain why but I just get sick of seeing old listings in my account. By "old" I mean, well it depends on the item, but I guess around 6 months virtually any item starts to get a bit stinky to me.
BUT because you went to the trouble and made such an interesting contribution to science, I'm honoring it by editing my title to include 'Shape' and jacking up my price, so we'll see if 'Alarm Clock' fetches some joy.
Thank you.
abethkap
·1 year agoIMO it's the novelty part of it (the alarm clock shape) rather than just a bubble pendant or the maker. I also think that seller did really well with it - there is another similar active one at about $80 that doesn't have any watchers. I wish you good luck-fingers crossed!
gurlcat
OP1 year agoHa probably mine. -I edited the price up to $89, with Make Offer enabled.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoDude, when is everybody going to start listening to me when I say use Product Research, not Search when determining sold prices for comps? It sold with a Seller Initiated Offer.
ltldpr
·1 year agoI'm so confused (shocking, I know) lol.
Are you being sarcastic? Search > Sold gave a higher sold price by $100 and some change than Product Research returned. I'm obviously missing something.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoNot even a little sarcastic @ltldpr . Search shows the list price.
Product Research shows actual price buyer paid, whether because of an offer or discount.
Items that don't appear in Product Research were failed transactions: buyer didn't pay, buyer returned for full refund, etc.
In this example, search shows the list price of $129.99 but Product Research shows the actual sold price of $22.75 and, if you click the seller initiated offer link in my last post, it takes you to the offer history page for that item which confirms this was sold with an offer and not a different type of discount.
On top of that, because search does not show a strikethrough on the price, we know this was a seller initiated offer, not the buyer using 'make offer'. If this was a buyer initiated offer, you'd see a strikethrough the $129.99 in search.
Search is public-facing and not intended to show all these different types of discounts that may be used. Product Research can only be accessed through Seller Hub and it's intended as a research tool for sellers - for pricing and more.
Does that help?
gurlcat
OP1 year agoNow THAT is hilarious, the seller LISTED it for more than a hundred bucks than what they wanted to get for it? @abethkap are you seeing this?
Anyway @wastingtime101 the reason I tagged you wasn't about the price at all, just the fact that the bot will accept 'clock' in a 'watch' title if you include the word 'shape.' I dunno I found it pretty interesting. 😬
You did teach me something I've been wanting to know though -how to tell whether I sold an item by my offer or the buyer's offer (the order page gives no clue). I've been wanting to know which has proven to be more effective for me, and if there's enough of a difference then I could just quit doing the lousier one. It'd be nice if there was a beautiful pie chart or something buried in the Hub, as doing a research dig for each item one-by-one would kind of suck, but maybe sometime when I am extremely bored. Anyway, good to know it's possible, thanks!
wastingtime101
·1 year agoYes, I appreciate that. I knew there'd be a way to make it work, but since you said you didn't want to "die on that hill" testing qualifiers I didn't push it.
eBay has gotten better over time with this type of logic on blocks and restrictions.
Remember how many listings were flagged for being the color ivory? Actually no, you probably don't as that was before your time. But ivory as a color used to trigger all kinds of issues where eBay was saying it was the material. That doesn't happen anymore and hasn't in ... I don't know, at least 10 years.
abethkap
·1 year agoYes, I just saw that and am really surprised that the sold results with some kinds of accepted offers would NOT have a strike through price. It seems really misleading for both buyers and sellers- especially if they are not double checking on 'Research products.' I don't know why eBay don't just show the actual selling price under the sold search. It seems just so much simpler and more logical. Sorry that watch isn't $100+. It's still got that cute vintage look so that's something. And $29 is better than tossing it in a lot.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoIt was listed Feb 2, 2024 and sold Mar 18, 2025
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoI know it's not made out of gold.
But this makes it an item sent on approval where if buyer doesn't like it they can say that and guess who pays return shipping.
I really hate it when buyers look for a loophole returning something.
I was just making an observation.
It is a cool piece and 'Barbie' would love that clock in her miniature house without the chain.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoI can assure you I have never had a buyer return a "gold" obvious costume piece for not being made of gold. -Certainly seen plenty of people talk about the possibility (here and in online jewelry groups), but never seen actual cases of it happening to anyone else either.
But if it ever does happen to me, I won't hate it. Buyers don't have to use loopholes for 30-day Free Return listings. They can choose the most frivolous remorse reason and I'll happily pay to get the item back. I would much rather get it back intact and re-sellable than purposely damaged to force a free INAD return (been there, done that!).
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoIt is likely that there are far fewer watches that look like an alarm clock than clocks which sellers will attempt to list in the watch category. Under such circumstances, Ebay will do what they think is best for Ebay and the site/
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoIt looks like a ladies necklace with a clock on it.
Sometimes too many words can be a problem...I would say 99.9 % looking at photo would know it is a tiny alarm clock.
And the word 'gold'...is it made out of gold or just a gold-color thing?
So, just remember, potential buyers might not see description if looking at this on their iPhone eBay APP...which doesn't show unless you search and look for description and click on it.
So I assume it is made out of gold...
gurlcat
OP1 year agoCome on, no you don't. You know someone listing a real solid gold article would include the 'K' fineness, and no one seeking solid gold would buy a piece without that, and they might not even trust that because it could be a fake piece with a fake mark. Anyway I offer free returns so any idiot who thinks they're getting hundreds of bucks worth of noble metal for 20 bucks can easily get refunded.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@gurlcat that's interesting, thanks for sharing! My first thought was I wonder if they are being that picky about it because Watches is a category where they have Authenticity Guarantee.
AG would not apply to items which are miscategoried, so maybe eBay has seen problems with people listing clocks in watches to get that AG badge and then buyers are disappointed when it doesn't actually get authenticated?
gurlcat
OP1 year agoI don't know, I would think that would be more likely to go the opposite way, people trying to list a watch as a clock, to avoid the authentication requirement. But I guess I could imagine what you're describing.
And I hope that really is what this is about, and this one list fail is just a very peculiar fluke like that. Because like I said, there are limitless words sellers might want or need to use to title their items that could appear to be 'wrong category' (or even prohibited categories for that matter). Of course I remember the situation of listings being taken down for including 'Ivory' as the color in the title, but even those listings got to be "born" whereas this thing I'm encountering is full-on abortive in nature.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@gurlcat yeah it's weird, logically you would think people would be using wrong category more often than not to avoid AG rather than the other way around - but I remember at least when they first introduced it for watches, there were a lot of examples of people putting watch straps and other parts/accessories incorrectly in that category so that the badge would show on the listing.
At the time I figured less than scrupulous sellers perhaps thought it added perceived value and/or helped them show up better in search (especially if a buyer filters to only see items with AG) and that those sellers just didn't particularly care whether that led to a negative buying experience.
Along similar lines, it could be that it happens more often inadvertently than as an intentional ploy - but eBay is just tired of the extra costs and hassles involved in having items go to the authenticator (if the miscategorization isn't caught at the listing/purchase stage) only to then be forwarded onto the buyer without being authenticated because it's not actually an item that qualifies.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoPlease correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought that AG had a 2-prong criteria: item category and item price. So why would they care about mis-categorized items priced well under the threshold? I'm listing this thing for twenty-something (can't remember exactly) dollars, LOL.
Also, are you certain that watch parts cannot get AG authentication? Maybe I watch too much Antiques Roadshow, but I believe when it comes to Rolex (and probably other ultra-luxury watches) some of the parts are worth thousands alone, based on rarity, historical context, etc.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@gurlcat was it an auction or fixed price?
It's been a while since I looked at the criteria for watches specifically but in general yes you are correct about it being both category and price - however, it's possible that category could be something that is hard coded (resulting in the block you are seeing) but price may be variable and the two criteria may be looked at/handled separately as far as the listing form "logic" if that makes sense.
That could be particularly true in watches where there is one price point for free authenticity guarantee and another price point at which the buyer is offered the option to pay an extra $80 to add authentication on - so the programming for the price criteria might need to be dynamic whereas the category eligibility is not.
And nope, smart watches, watch parts, and accessories are not eligible for authentication.
gurlcat
OP1 year agoBIN, not auction. Ha, if anything it's a "reverse auction" because $27 is a 'pie-in-the-sky' asking price for a watch pendant necklace by a fairly 'meh' brand, and I'll probably need to lower the price over time, and accept an even lower offer. I debated whether to even shoot and list this piece by itself or just include it in a mixed lot.