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Scammed on e Bay by buyer
I am scammed on eBay. I have been an eBay member for more than 20 years. I sold the iPhone 12 Pro Max 512 GB like new to a buyer he had just joined two months prior before buying from my buy-it-now list. After 3 days he asked for a return of the item because he needed help. eBay approved return under eBay Money Back Guarantee. The buyer sent my item back to me by USPS eBay provided a return label. As soon as the item reaches my local post office my USPS informed delivery account displays that this package address does not exist. I call my post office to hold till I come. I went to the post office to get my package but when I saw the package the return address printed was not mine and the sender's address was printed as his next-door neighbor, I took a picture of the package. Postmasters refused to give me the package because my address was not on it and told me that this address does not exist in my town. Immediately I learned that I am scammed on eBay. Then I went to my local police station to file fraud report where I file stolen phone report. I produce a photo of the returned tracking label which I took at the post office and a original tracking label which eBay sends to buyer for return. Along with my original purchase receipt of my phone. The eBay refund full amount with shipping chipping charges to buyer as soon as it reaches my local post office because it was showing package out for delivery. After contacting eBay for this issue at least 4 time chatting 2 times phone call and 3 times email exchange no satisfactory answer from eBay. Also, I asked eBay policy state that refund to buyer 48 hours after receiving the returned item and why you issued refund too soon to buyer. They did not give me and answer, Last email I have received from eBay is says that "You'll receive a response from one of our customer representatives on your specific question within 24 to 48 hours of receipt of this mail. Please don't respond." Now it's 5 days but no respond from eBay. Now I feel like I am scammed lost my money and my item and scammer got away with everything. Here is my advice to eBay sellers like me. 1. Do not leave any money to eBay's credit account. 2. If you have a bank account linked to it please move money out or transfer to another account. That's why eBay does not have access to your money to pay it to buyers. So, you have 48 hours for eBay's return policy. I learned the hard way. The attached photo is one eBay sent to the buyer to return the tracking label, 2nd buyer altered the tracking label and my original purchase receipt of my stolen phone.
kh-stanley1
·2 years agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
raquetballer1
·2 years agoI'm living the nightmare. I was able to go to the bussiness and they hand me the package that wa a sent by the buyer. The address is different, the tracking numbers are all there but the secuense is different, the barcode is what is right. What they are doing is manipulating the lable by Adobe acrobat. The program that you purchase and can make changes to the document.
How can we stop ebay from siding with the scammers? Can we do an class action lawsuit?
a2gtinut
·2 years agoshould do class action
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoThis website is still and will always be a scammers paradise for these high scam item phones. It’s been like this for 20 years and will continue till eternity.
rugerskick
·2 years agoEbay facilitates and enables this kind of buyer fraud through their policies and also, in this case, NOT following their own policies.
albany_sellers
·2 years agoAnd they wonder why nobody trusts them to list expensive items on eBay. If eBay even made half an attempt to show us they take fraud serious, maybe we might sell higher end stuff.
slati_2013
·2 years agoIf you don't get your phone back, report it stolen and kill it. It will be of no use to the scammer.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoUnfortunately, bricking a phone does nothing if it's gone overseas.
dnk1911
OP2 years agoI don't know how to contact Apple to lock a stolen phone since my phone "Find My" was disabled and logged out from my account. This is normal before selling phones. Also, in the police report, I gave them a copy of the original purchase receipt of the phone which has serial and IMEI printed on it, they have this on my police report.
toottoot727
·2 years agoI had a similar issue. But how do you kill a phone when it is not associated with say AT&T or Verizon? I have the serial and IMEI number Apparently apple won't do it. The phone was an AT&T phone which they unlocked.
ten_o_nine
·2 years agoeBay will not close the case unless return shows "Delivered", did the case say it was delivered under the return tracking number? That's very important, if the return doesn't show delivered, eBay will reimburse you, and if it shows delivered, you can go back to the post office and ask them to update tracking as "wrong address" or or returned to sender, or whatever.
The post office refused to give you the package so it should not say delivered.
bamorris
·2 years agoThere is an "appeal" process.
Surprised no one has suggested this yet. But you can appeal eBay's decision. and the "High Value Claims" team will evaluate your claim. You'll sign an affidavit you were scammed. And then eBay will refund you for the loss.
I hate to say this, but most of the responses in this thread are lacking useful information for you at this point. And your strategy of keeping your bank account empty so eBay can't reach the funds is also bad advice.
The only right answer here for you is to "APPEAL".
Given your long history here and your likely positive transactions, I'm certain eBay will correct this and you will win your appeal.
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@dnk1911
To what city/state did you ship the phone? (i.e. was it to a Freight Forwarder address) for a buyer that is registered in another country? I ask because this is an ever repeated scenario known as a variation of the "fake tracking scam" (aka fake tracking return scam, or the cheap trinket return scam).
There is a possibility of redress for you, but it is NOT likely to happen using the regular eBay customer service nor the bot driven appeal process. It doesn't matter if the buyer nor the seller is a victim of this scam scenario, eBay tends to "ignore the elephant in the room" and hope the victim goes away with a combination of repeated denials and control of the money.
Let us know about the F.Forwarder issue which will be useful as well as the photo documentation you already have.
Note: you may not be able to view the feedback page of your buyer to see where they are registered is their score is ZERO. Come back for instructions if you need them.
dnk1911
OP2 years agoI shipped the phone to Miami. Florida from Iowa my state. The package was a USPS fixed-rate small box. I am uploading a photo of the original package tracking label of the buyer I took photo at the post office with the original tracking label which eBay sent to the buyer to use for returning the phone. The buyer altered the address on it and did not put my name and address that why the post office refused to give me. As packages go out to deliver USPS system displays delivered but changes when the carrier comes back system changes from delivered to "No Such Number" in the system. The problem is eBay pays buyers as soon as it goes out from the premises. They did not follow the 48-hour rules for sellers. 
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoI guess you did not know.
Scammer SCAM I-Phones.
YOU were scammed.
It worked.
There is VERY LITTLE you can do about...not unlike a Mugging in an Alley...you know- the 'give me your wallet, phone, watch, rings, while some 'bad guy' holds a knife at you.
You were taken.
You will just have to deal with it, move on, and know that I-Phones are HIGH THEFT items on the interwebs.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoThat looks like a freight forwarders address.
The BP number is their customers ID so they know who the customer is.
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@dnk1911
That Miami address is for a freight forwarder in an industrial park. The number code in parenthesis on the original label is the customer's number for the freight forwarder. Buyers that use freight forwarders give up the ability to have coverage under the eBay Money Back Guarantee.....
ONLY IF the seller knows what to do. Otherwise eBay treats it just like any other case, and proceeds to "ignore the elephant in the room" when the fake tracking return scam is employed.
Get a written note from your Post Master declaring the label has been altered and NOT INTENDED for you.
Use the blue message button at the top of this page:
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness
Give your User ID, item number, and state the original label was to a freight forwarder in Miami. Explain that the label was altered as you have described here. You can upload the note, and the photos of the labels as evidence.
What you are experiencing is nothing new. The scenario is quite common and there are weekly and sometimes daily posts about it as well. eBay knows about this.
Buyers that are victims of fake tracking issues can get redress through a c.card chargeback. Sellers cannot. Regular customer service that you get in call back or chat protects eBay. eBay manages THEIR losses by continued denial "tracking shows delivered" and controlling the money.
Good luck.
dnk1911
OP2 years agoI think this answer is the best answer for this post. I am not sure the post office will give a written note. Let me try to get a written note from my local post office postmaster this note might help me to connect postmaster's general. Still, the scammer got away with money and my phone. Learned the hard way!!! Never ship items to freight forward addresses.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoI think this answer is the best answer for this post. I am not sure the post office will give a written note. Let me try to get a written note from my local post office postmaster this note might help me to connect postmaster's general. Still, the scammer got away with money and my phone. Learned the hard way!!! Never ship items to freight forward addresses.
You should be able to get the post office to help you mention it involves possible mail fraud/theft. You are correct the scammer will probably get away with the phone but actually they don't get the money on top of it. You can look at it like the scammer simply paid nothing for the phone. However, since you have not gotten the package yet you cannot be sure the phone is not inside.
I ship items through freight forwarders and have had less problems with those sales and shipments than I have had with domestic sales. While eBay offers the seller protection when an item goes through a FF a lot of the claims processing is automated so the bots have no idea the shipped to address was a FF as @ittybitnot mentioned.
ittybitnot
·2 years ago. However, since you have not gotten the package yet you cannot be sure the phone is not inside.
@dbfolks166mt
The OP @dnk1911 is NOT going to get the package. See post #29 where the 1st picture is of the original eBay generated return label sent to the buyer for the return of the phone.
The second is an "altered" version of the same label/tracking number/barcode used by the crook "buyer" to satisfy the return. The Post Office allowed the OP to take a photo of the actual envelope that WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO HIM/HER. The PO would not allow the OP to keep the 'envelope' since it was NOT addressed to the OP. You think there is a chance at all that an Iphone is in that envelope?
OP is being DENIED because there is a recorded "delivery confirmation" notice even though this whole return thing is a scam. It is not even a new scam (being documented on the forums for years now), they are reported almost daily here and supposedly only 1% of eBay buyers or sellers ever come to the boards.
eBay can stick to their "denial" mantra or man up. They might as well read the other Iphone/forwarder/fake return scam that is on page 1 today and help that poster, too. It is NOT even just phones, and it is not even always high end goods.
It is past time for eBay to start posting a procedure to help both buyers and sellers who are victims with this issue. Ya think?
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoThe OP @dnk1911 is NOT going to get the package. See post #29 where the 1st picture is of the original return label sent to the buyer for the return of the phone.
I saw the pictures and you may be correct the seller may never get the package back but for the amount involved I would be talking to the postmaster at the local PO. The OP can prove that they purchased the original return label with the correct return address information and the tracking number. It should not take a lot of investigation by the PO to see that the buyer altered the label but used the same tracking number to return the package. This may be the point where the OP asks how to get the postmaster IG involved this is mail fraud. The OP can also access the IG online at the following.
https://www.uspsoig.gov/
The second is an "altered" version of the same label/tracking number/barcode used by the crook "buyer" to satisfy the return. The Post Office allowed the OP to take a photo of the actual envelope that WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO HIM/HER. The PO would not allow the OP to keep the 'envelope' since it was NOT addressed to the OP. You think there is a chance at all that an Iphone is in that envelope?
I would tend to agree that there is a LOW probability that the iPhone is in that envelope but at the moment there is no real way to be 100% positive.
OP is being DENIED because there is a recorded "delivery confirmation" notice even though this whole return thing is a scam. It is not even a new scam (being documented on the forums for years now), they are reported almost daily here and supposedly only 1% of eBay buyers or sellers ever come to the boards.
Understand the reason for the denial but OP should be fighting this on the grounds that it went through a freight forwarder and the buyer lost their MBG coverage when the item arrived at the FF on the original outbound leg. EBay has waffled on this WAY too many times and refused to stand behind their own policy. It is also complicated by the fact that the bots don't know it went through the FF.
eBay can stick to their "denial" mantra or man up. They might as well read the other Iphone/forwarder/fake return scam that is on page 1 today and help that poster, too. It is NOT even just phones, and it is not even always high end goods.
O fully aware that the scamming is in high gear and targeting just about everything but IPhones are a hot item especially with the overseas scammers and routing them through a FF.
It is past time for eBay to start posting a procedure to help both buyers and sellers who are victims with this issue. Ya think?
Quite agree and adjusting the bot software to identify the FF companies, there are not that many of them in retrospect, and instantly closing any type of claim or request that went to/through a FF once it was delivered to the FF by the seller.
I would be interested to know, but we never will, how much of this type of stuff eBay is dealing with under the EIS program where they are basically assuming the responsibility for everything including Chargebacks.
miyasamaco
·2 years agoThere's a reason I didn't ship mobile phones to freight forwarders when I sold them: nothing but a bunch of scammers! That's the address you're dealing with. I would let the freight company know about the fraud, as well as the police in Miami.
hiiragi_tsukasa
·2 years agoUnfortunately smart phone scams are exceptionally common, if not the most common form of scam right now. Selling any high-end smartphone, ,or even buying them is exceptionally risky - I wouldn't do it period.
If you are in the market for a new smartphone, hate to say it - but Brick and Mortar stores, find something on sale is your only safe option.
dnk1911
OP2 years agoThat's right. This is the first time I sold the phone on eBay and the last time, learned the hard way by losing money and the phone.
duffy4444
·2 years agoWhen I first saw the title of your post, I thought, "I'll bet this is another iPhone scam complaint". Yup!
#1. NEVER, EVER sell a higher-value item like an iPhone anywhere online. It's at the top, or very close to it, as the most scammed item online - right up there with other electronic items. Sell it locally for cash, where you have complete control over its disposition and your payment for it.
#2. Never trust the word or advice of anyone on the phone supposedly at eBay. They'll tell you anything just to get you off the phone. If you need to contact a real eBay employee, click the private message button at eBay for Business on Facebook in order to get things rolling.
Sorry this happened to you...
Cheers, Duffy
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years ago@dnk1911
It's a shame you didn't come here for help as soon as this happened, rather than wasting your time with ebay customer NO service as there are things you can do to help at least get your funds back if not your phone.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoNo money for refunds in an account would likely result in going to "collections" for those funds and/or account suspension.
Seem "collections" is not good for one's credit report.
dnk1911
OP2 years agoVery true that this might happen to go to a collection agency. Never thought about it but gives you 48 hours as per eBay policy and you can contact eBay for that you are scammed, if no help then you don't have a choice but to refund to scammer.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoCollections can be disputed, and any funds ebay claws back from a financial institution can also be disputed as well.
I once disputed a collections charge for $595 from South Western Bell and won. The reality is the OP was defrauded, and ebay had no legal authority to refund the buyer. Nothing was returned to the OP, nor is there any evidence to prove differently.
Anything sent to collections in this case will be thrown out by the major credit reporting beureaus. Easy to dispute.
hartungcards
·2 years agoI just moved all my money out of my bank account linked to eBay, and put it under my mattress. Thanks for the heads up.
bonjourami
·2 years agoAnd sorry to say, dont sell iPhones on Ebay,has to be one of the most scammed items by buyers.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoAnd sorry to say, dont sell iPhones on Ebay,has to be one of the most scammed items by buyers.
@bonjourami
Yes, we (who read here all the time) know this. Maybe it is time for eBay to post warnings? IE: Danger. A good portion of sales to eBay buyers for IPhones do not end well. Do not post it for sale unless you can afford to lose it!
Instead we have victim blaming going on in the forums when we have users that have become recipients of the usual scams and need direction instead of "you should have known better". How are they supposed to know exactly if they don't come here first?
bamorris
·2 years agoThe eBay community forums sometimes offer help. But I agree. The nonsense of telling someone what they should have done at a previous point in time is rather unhelpful and risks adding insult to injury.
Why has no one told this member to appeal yet? And why didn't the first response, the author who is a extremely active community member here say "APPEAL"?
The HVC team will likely side with a long time member seller and refund this person for their loss.
Puzzling.
hartungcards
·2 years agoYou certainly have some pretty high standards for this collection of unpaid customer support representatives that populate this board and make educated guesses on how to solve other people's problems.
Puzzling, indeed.
ten_o_nine
·2 years agoThere are helpful people in this community that try to give a good advice, but many are here to gain popularity regardless of the response, just like anywhere else.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoHow, exactly, does answering a question or giving advice "gain popularity regardless of the response"?
dnk1911
OP2 years agoI still don't understand after providing eBay with all photographic proof the buyer altered the tracking label which does not have my name and address printed on the label. The name and address do not exist in my town along with my USPS informed delivery account that clearly shows "No Such Number" on this tracking number. Also told eBay customer service that the package was empty when Cleark let me open the package at the post office, this is a pure scam.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoYou need to get it in writing on USPS letterhead that the address on the return package with that tracking # was not YOU or YOUR address.
Then once you have that you can appeal.
Unfortunately the photo won't even be looked at by ebay as they can be doctored.
bamorris
·2 years agoI already told you the solution to your problem.
It's unclear why eBay's hand was forced to refund. Did you select "Problem with this Return"?
If yes. And eBay forced your hand to refund the customer closing the return.
IT IS TIME TO APPEAL.
A-P-P-E-A-L
The process is spelled out in one of the closing email.. also here.
https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/returns-refunds/appeal-ebays-decision-return-missing-item-buyers
toottoot727
·2 years agoI did appeal... several times. Each time I was denied because the tracking number showed what is considered an attempted delivery. Ebay considers "No Such Number" as an attempted delivery.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoJust like videos, photos can be doctored to easy.
You need a letter from USPS stating the information, then use it to appeal the case.
dnk1911
OP2 years agoHi Hartungcards,
I know your concern. I lost money and my phone to an eBay scammer. Still, I am waiting to receive a reply from eBay after so many times contacting them. eBay has not called or contacted me about my issue since the last email I received a week ago stated this......
Thanks for writing to eBay Customer Service.
Your question is very important to us and will be treated with our full attention and respect for your needs. Your email has been received, and it isn't necessary for you to resend it.
You'll receive a response from one of our customer representatives on your specific question within 24 to 48 hours of receipt of this mail.
Please don't respond to this email. Any email sent as a response to this acknowledgement won't reach us. If you have another question or would like to send us additional information, you can contact us from any eBay Help page.
We appreciate your co-operation and assistance.
eBay
eBay Document ID: 137020634007
Lesson learned "never sell high-value phones on eBay and do not expect that eBay will help if you are scammed. eBay has worst customer service I have experienced."
ittybitnot
·2 years agoWhy has no one told this member to appeal yet?
@bamorris
Maybe because that those familiar with this scam know already that due to a recorded "delivery", the OP is simply going to lose again. The automated system and the regular outsourced foreign call center customer service agents are not allowed to help with a "fake tracking" issue.
That is why I specifically asked @dnk1911 upthread if the item was delivered to a US freight forwarder address for a buyer in another country. Did you know that there are additional protections for sellers that have shipped to freight forwarder addresses that may indeed get this seller a refund a lot faster? It will not involve any "appeal" and it will not involve the CS reps you get on call back or chat.
Do you know what sort of other documents WILL be accepted by eBay, and where to seek help? These may not even be necessary if the problem involves a freight forwarder.
There has been information indicating that eBay is only allowing "so many trips to the well (appeals)" before summarily denying the victim. One of those 'chances' should not be wasted on the regular appeal system that 99.9% results in a denial for the victim.
Buyers that are victims of fake tracking scams can generally go to PayPal or their credit card when they get thrown under the bus. The seller who is a victim of the phony tracking return scam is not so lucky and must proceed accordingly.
bamorris
·2 years ago@ittybitnot
Still not a reason to not recommend using the appeal process.
I've personally witnessed dozens of appeals and have yet to see a denial on appeal. I'm a reseller group where we share information like this.
I think you're just giving out bad advice not to try to appeal because you calculated the odds at 99 percent loss.
If you want to win with eBay, you have to follow the processes. The process is "There is a problem with this return". eBay sides with the buyer. Then you file an APPEAL, and eBay has made you whole again.
I just don't see the 99 percent loss in the Appeals process you do. In fact, I haven't seen one declined yet. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I just haven't seen it.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoand have yet to see a denial on appeal.....
@bamorris
Were these appeals specifically related to "fake tracking" issues?
dnk1911
OP2 years agoNow I know after losing money and phone. I am never going to sell higher-end electronics on eBay. The best option is to sell on local Craigslist.
hiiragi_tsukasa
·2 years agoIt goes with anything valuable unfortunately, ebay scammers exist and whilst craigslist is better per say, that still has its own risks to be aware of. I think most of all for us who have been scammed, its not so much the money (well it is) but the more personal feeling of being taken advantage of, and not having anyone in your corner, not least ebay itself because since 1995 its customer service has been atrocious especially when dealing with fraud and shows no signs of improving anytime soon, especially when it boils down to she says, he says situations and even if you list your auction perfectly, you have photos of your item from every angle possible - someone out there could still try to commit fraud against you and even with an ironclad defense, you did everything right...still doesn't mean ebay will side with you.
dnk1911
OP2 years agoVery true!!!
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoSo if I list my auction/listing PERFECT yet send the buyer a rock, I'm all good??
This site MUST take the side of the Buyer because this site makes money when BUYERS BUY.
Although sellers want to say 'chicken or the egg'... is MORE than obvious that for every seller that leaves, 100 will join because EVERYONE wants to be rich!