Who would want to walk around in Cleveland with anything of value? That was disrespectful. There were no problems the last time the convention was here, in 2014. The NCAA Women's Final Four basketball tournament went smoothly from April 5th~7th. Same for visitors to the eclipse and Guardians baseball home opener on Monday April 8. Fan Expo Cleveland 2024, a comic con type event, this weekend was trouble free. The Republican National Convention in 2016 had 24 arrests for burning flags or assaulting cops while burning flags. The most peaceful and uneventful political convention in decades.
I'm reading the press release and all I see is a swap / exchange of hands which may result in the parties claiming a loss / purchase expenses for more tax breaks and pumping up false values on cards.
The vault to me was like crypto currency, just made it more confusing and deceiving. You supposedly owned it, but don't have actual possession of it.
I would be curious if I had a card in the vault and I wanted it shipped to me (pay the fees). When I received it and decided to get it graded again, what would the value actually be?
Why are card shows almost non-existent these days and don't offer on-site grading? You want your card graded; you have to send it off. Think about that risk of your card being swapped out by another same / lower graded card. How will you prove it?
There is also an article on this on ESPN if any want to read.
I'm reading the press release and all I see is a swap / exchange of hands which may result in the parties claiming a loss / purchase expenses for more tax breaks and pumping up false values on cards.
@sextons-sweet-deals it's not uncommon for acquisitions (for eBay in particular or other companies in general) not to disclose dollar amounts or other specific financial details.
Just looking back at eBay's M&A history the last couple of years - MyFitment, KnownOrigin, Certilogo, and Sneaker Con all had very similar language in their press releases...basically that eBay was acquiring them and further details were not disclosed.
In fact, TCGPlayer is the only one I can think of in the last few years where they *did* disclose the amount, but I would not assume that means money didn't change hands in the other deals and wouldn't assume that in this deal either.
Obviously the swap makes up a certain amount of the value of the deal but we have no way of knowing if that's the total value or not, so I'm not going to speculate either way at this point.
Details are few, but my impression is that the company that bought the vault will still make it available to eBay buyers and sellers in much the same way it has been available. But we won't know for sure until more details are released.
Details are few, but my impression is that the company that bought the vault will still make it available to eBay buyers and sellers in much the same way it has been available. But we won't know for sure until more details are released.
@my-cottage-books-and-antiques PSA has posted a bit more detail as far as how the process will actually work.
And I've seen some YouTubers posting images of emails they received from eBay indicating there will be a grace period where those who already have items in the eBay Vault will be able to withdraw them for free if they don't want them to be transferred to PSA.
I agree. I have several very high value cards that I won't send to be graded. There are just too many people that would handle them and too many things that could go wrong. Then selling them on ebay is kind of iffy because of charge backs.
I'm not surprised by the sale of the Vault. When it was first introduced, with much fanfare, we were told (as I recall) that it would eventually include designer handbags, watches, etc, etc. I don't believe it ever expanded beyond cards, did it? And ebay has been pretty quiet about it for a long time, which has suggested to me that it hasn't been meeting expectations even in the card sphere. It clearly has not been the game changer ebay thought it would be.
I do wonder if these changes are further indication that ebay is backing away from its Focus Category approach---not entirely, of course, but maybe we'll eventually see them put more effort into the site as a whole. To me, that would be a welcome and long overdue change.
Does this mean no more fake pictures of The Vault?
I'm not into buying and selling cards, but from the very start I found those fake "vault" photos (looking more like some kind of overlit public gallery) to be insultingly stupid, making me wonder if they were hoping that their users would really think that that was how their cards were to be treated. (If that was the real "vault," those cards would have been bleached dry in weeks.)
Had they actually posted photos showing respectful, careful handling of collectors' cards in vault storage (i.e. photos of the real storage conditions), they might have done better.
EBay was doing 0% fees on anything sold through the eBay vault which is probably how they could grow it. People were selling very expensive cards without having to pay any eBay fees. They were obviously losing a lot of money on the vault so maybe their plan was to build it up to use it to trade the whole time.
EBay was doing 0% fees on anything sold through the eBay vault which is probably how they could grow it. People were selling very expensive cards without having to pay any eBay fees. They were obviously losing a lot of money on the vault so maybe their plan was to build it up to use it to trade the whole time.
@sapphire_studio no insider info here, but the idea eBay might have been planning to use the vault as a bargaining chip for some time definitely crossed my mind too.
While the assets in the eBay vault may or may not be particularly valuable (relatively speaking), PSA just conveniently got rid of a competitor to their own vault service and the promise of a new seamless experience to allow cards in the PSA Vault to be listed on eBay.
And eBay just got an auction house that is known for its high end customer base (which eBay has coveted but been largely unable to win for themselves)...like I said, wins for both sides but yet to be determined if it will be a win for consumers and sellers.
Also interesting timing on a new hire at eBay - Collectors VP Marketing Mike Nett apparently left back in September to join eBay as GM Trading Cards and Sports Memorabilia...but didn't disclose that fact publicly on his LinkedIn page until 4 days before this deal was announced.
I would think that might raise some questions about who knew what/when, what kind of insider info he might have brought with him and what if any role that may have played in negotiations. 🤔
eBay gets Goldin from Collectors, so they can focus on what they are historically good at (auctions) and PSA (owned by Collectors) gets the Vault, which fits with their existing vault service and allows for integration to more easily list PSA Vault items on eBay - sounds like a possible win all around.
Selling off the Vault could also be an effort to reduce scrutiny of the deal by regulators, especially since eBay is already likely to be in the hot seat over ongoing issues with their acquisition of TCGplayer including protracted labor battles with unionized workers, revelations they are competing directly with 3rd party sellers on their own site using the TCGPlayer name without disclosure to consumers that they are buying from eBay, and a group of TCGPlayer sellers is making noise about pursuing legal action with allegations of retaliation and anti-competitive practices.
Not to mention there's the deferred prosecution agreement eBay signed with the DOJ related to criminal liability of the company for the 2019 cyberstalking scandal - that agreement puts eBay under a 3 year enhanced compliance monitoring program which has a specific focus on Mergers & Acquisitions, so this deal with Collectors is likely to be looked at closer than it would have been otherwise.
lol, Skype immediately comes to mind.......... wonder how much they lost on the Vault.
@dhbookds terms of this deal were not disclosed, but considering they are getting Goldin Auctions in return, not sure it's actually a loss when you wash it all out.
onlinecentral
·2 years agoPSA will be a corporate sponsor at
The 44th National Sports Collectors Convention
July 24-28, 2024 Cleveland, OH
https://www.nsccshow.com/home
Best wishes Vault on this new chapter in your life.
johnjefprks
·2 years agoWho would want to walk around in Cleveland with anything of value?
onlinecentral
·2 years agoWho would want to walk around in Cleveland with anything of value?
That was disrespectful.
There were no problems the last time the convention was here, in 2014.
The NCAA Women's Final Four basketball tournament went smoothly from April 5th~7th.
Same for visitors to the eclipse and Guardians baseball home opener on Monday April 8.
Fan Expo Cleveland 2024, a comic con type event, this weekend was trouble free.
The Republican National Convention in 2016 had 24 arrests for burning flags or assaulting cops while burning flags. The most peaceful and uneventful political convention in decades.
inhawaii
·2 years agoGoodbye ebay vault.
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agoToo much going on here.
I'm reading the press release and all I see is a swap / exchange of hands which may result in the parties claiming a loss / purchase expenses for more tax breaks and pumping up false values on cards.
The vault to me was like crypto currency, just made it more confusing and deceiving. You supposedly owned it, but don't have actual possession of it.
I would be curious if I had a card in the vault and I wanted it shipped to me (pay the fees). When I received it and decided to get it graded again, what would the value actually be?
Why are card shows almost non-existent these days and don't offer on-site grading? You want your card graded; you have to send it off. Think about that risk of your card being swapped out by another same / lower graded card. How will you prove it?
There is also an article on this on ESPN if any want to read.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@sextons-sweet-deals it's not uncommon for acquisitions (for eBay in particular or other companies in general) not to disclose dollar amounts or other specific financial details.
Just looking back at eBay's M&A history the last couple of years - MyFitment, KnownOrigin, Certilogo, and Sneaker Con all had very similar language in their press releases...basically that eBay was acquiring them and further details were not disclosed.
In fact, TCGPlayer is the only one I can think of in the last few years where they *did* disclose the amount, but I would not assume that means money didn't change hands in the other deals and wouldn't assume that in this deal either.
Obviously the swap makes up a certain amount of the value of the deal but we have no way of knowing if that's the total value or not, so I'm not going to speculate either way at this point.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP2 years agoDetails are few, but my impression is that the company that bought the vault will still make it available to eBay buyers and sellers in much the same way it has been available. But we won't know for sure until more details are released.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques PSA has posted a bit more detail as far as how the process will actually work.
Scroll down to the bottom of this page for the FAQ https://www.psacard.com/info/psa-vault
Info about at least some of the fees that may apply. https://www.psacard.com/info/consignment-rates
And I've seen some YouTubers posting images of emails they received from eBay indicating there will be a grace period where those who already have items in the eBay Vault will be able to withdraw them for free if they don't want them to be transferred to PSA.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP2 years agoThanks @valueaddedresource That does provide a bit more detail.
classic1s
·2 years agoGreat more power and bias in PSA's hands. Just what the hobby needed.
johnjefprks
·2 years agoI agree. I have several very high value cards that I won't send to be graded. There are just too many people that would handle them and too many things that could go wrong. Then selling them on ebay is kind of iffy because of charge backs.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP2 years agoI'm not surprised by the sale of the Vault. When it was first introduced, with much fanfare, we were told (as I recall) that it would eventually include designer handbags, watches, etc, etc. I don't believe it ever expanded beyond cards, did it? And ebay has been pretty quiet about it for a long time, which has suggested to me that it hasn't been meeting expectations even in the card sphere. It clearly has not been the game changer ebay thought it would be.
I do wonder if these changes are further indication that ebay is backing away from its Focus Category approach---not entirely, of course, but maybe we'll eventually see them put more effort into the site as a whole. To me, that would be a welcome and long overdue change.
hartungcards
·2 years agoDoes this mean no more fake pictures of The Vault?
a_c_green
·2 years agoI'm not into buying and selling cards, but from the very start I found those fake "vault" photos (looking more like some kind of overlit public gallery) to be insultingly stupid, making me wonder if they were hoping that their users would really think that that was how their cards were to be treated. (If that was the real "vault," those cards would have been bleached dry in weeks.)
Had they actually posted photos showing respectful, careful handling of collectors' cards in vault storage (i.e. photos of the real storage conditions), they might have done better.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoYeah, they made those shoe boxes look like a million bucks.
aeparts1
·2 years agoI always imagined "The Vault" was a couple of Banker's boxes stored in a closet at Jamie Iaonne's house.
sapphire_studio
·2 years agoEBay was doing 0% fees on anything sold through the eBay vault which is probably how they could grow it. People were selling very expensive cards without having to pay any eBay fees. They were obviously losing a lot of money on the vault so maybe their plan was to build it up to use it to trade the whole time.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@sapphire_studio no insider info here, but the idea eBay might have been planning to use the vault as a bargaining chip for some time definitely crossed my mind too.
While the assets in the eBay vault may or may not be particularly valuable (relatively speaking), PSA just conveniently got rid of a competitor to their own vault service and the promise of a new seamless experience to allow cards in the PSA Vault to be listed on eBay.
And eBay just got an auction house that is known for its high end customer base (which eBay has coveted but been largely unable to win for themselves)...like I said, wins for both sides but yet to be determined if it will be a win for consumers and sellers.
Also interesting timing on a new hire at eBay - Collectors VP Marketing Mike Nett apparently left back in September to join eBay as GM Trading Cards and Sports Memorabilia...but didn't disclose that fact publicly on his LinkedIn page until 4 days before this deal was announced.
I would think that might raise some questions about who knew what/when, what kind of insider info he might have brought with him and what if any role that may have played in negotiations. 🤔
johnjefprks
·2 years agoI am surprised the vault lasted as long as it did. ebay should have stayed in their own lane.
valueaddedresource
·2 years agoeBay gets Goldin from Collectors, so they can focus on what they are historically good at (auctions) and PSA (owned by Collectors) gets the Vault, which fits with their existing vault service and allows for integration to more easily list PSA Vault items on eBay - sounds like a possible win all around.
Selling off the Vault could also be an effort to reduce scrutiny of the deal by regulators, especially since eBay is already likely to be in the hot seat over ongoing issues with their acquisition of TCGplayer including protracted labor battles with unionized workers, revelations they are competing directly with 3rd party sellers on their own site using the TCGPlayer name without disclosure to consumers that they are buying from eBay, and a group of TCGPlayer sellers is making noise about pursuing legal action with allegations of retaliation and anti-competitive practices.
Not to mention there's the deferred prosecution agreement eBay signed with the DOJ related to criminal liability of the company for the 2019 cyberstalking scandal - that agreement puts eBay under a 3 year enhanced compliance monitoring program which has a specific focus on Mergers & Acquisitions, so this deal with Collectors is likely to be looked at closer than it would have been otherwise.
dhbookds
·2 years agolol, Skype immediately comes to mind.......... wonder how much they lost on the Vault.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@dhbookds terms of this deal were not disclosed, but considering they are getting Goldin Auctions in return, not sure it's actually a loss when you wash it all out.