Red Warning for listing of USAF photographer's manual from 1953
I got the warning below attempting to list an "RB-36 Photographer's Manual" (1953):
I'm not about to go any further with the listing, but I am curious about other sellers' experiences with this warning. There are numerous examples of similar decades-old tech manuals listed on eBay, so I'm not convinced the bot is consistent in what it prohibits. Military manuals are certainly not prohibited "altogether" (as the warning claims).
The link in the warning takes you to the ITAR, the Federal "International Traffic in Arms Regulations." This takes you to the 'U.S. Munitions List" where all the prohibited items are enumerated ("Guided Missiles," "Surface Vessels of War," "Biological Agents," and so on).
Category XXI includes "Technical Data," defined as "information that is required for the design, development, production, manufacture, assembly, operation, repair, testing, maintenance, or modification of defense articles." In other words, every military tech manual on eBay! So how does the bot decide what to flag?
The one loophole is that publications in the public domain are exempted. I have a message into the Air Force Historical Research Agency asking if my manual is in the public domain.
(Not that that will help even if they say yes.)
Mike
roccotacodad54
·4 months agoNo telling what might be prohibited. They prohibit that manual but you can buy a drone directly from china that uploads all info it gathers to a chinese server when it is near an internet hot spot without disclosing that information to the buyer.................Go figure...............................
fm2000
·4 months agoThey flag all of those manuals, regardless of what they are (I believe the military manual item number is what triggers it, but that is just a guess). They probably just ban them all as a "CYA" move to avoid the government going after them. I had a military manual that was literally nothing but the basics of how DC electricity works, Ohm's law, series versus parallel resistance, the kind of stuff most people learn about in high school, if not sooner. The kind of information all of America's enemies already know... extremely basic requisite knowledge to have if a society has electricity available to its people.
Don't relist it, even though it is 100% legal to sell. Sell it elsewhere, eBay will probably pull it and send you a nasty message. Not worth the risk.
ed8108
·4 months agosimba6
·4 months agoDon't worry. I have seen that come up for TOY night vision goggles too. Again it's just looking at key words.
grann-4629
·4 months agoI don't think it really matters what any or all experts say ... it's eBay's venue and they make the rules. Many people seek out other on-line venues to sell neat stuff like this. I have an original service manual for a Sherman M4A2 tank that eBay would probably remove if I tried to list it.
Best of luck to you 🤓
movieman630
·4 months agoYeah, the AI doesn't care if it's "ok for public release" all military manuals are being flagged. It's really ridiculous. I even tried listing a standard soldier's guide which is about as basic public domain as you can get and it showed that same message. So basically you just can't sell any government manuals on here, period. Despite the fact that all the manuals I was trying to sell were made available to the public decades ago I just won't even try anymore.
There's certain categories that are just rife with poor AI monitoring, the policies are too vague and so the AI system just flags everything.
grann-4629
·4 months agoDarn 😞😞
I'm tempted to violate eBay's Number 1 Rule and request an 'off-site' transaction, but I won't. Original manuals for maintaining and repairing old military stuff are so cool. Can you imagine having an original copy of the operations manual for the Gustav?
coinslabz26
·4 months ago@argus_museum
I do not sell items that would generate this warning but I have many years of ebay experience and many years of reading similar situations. Your instinct " to not go any further with the listing" is the correct move. While this item might be safe, and have significant historical value it would be impossible to know if this is public knowledge or not. Even if confirmed safe and public ebay might still remove it and flag your account. So regardless of what angle you go with it, it is better to trust your gut here.
argus_museum
OP4 months agoThanks @coinslabz26 . My thinking is similar. Mike
spendingcents26150
·4 months agoEbay reminds me of an old Windows 98 Plus theme. I forget the name but it was a spooky Halloween theme (maybe that was the name). When you would make an error, in an eerie voice, Windows would say "You can't touch that."... lol
Sorry.. it was just a thought.
nh_sales_lv
·4 months agoYou can sell that sort of stuff on Etsy just not Ebay
God forbid they the cccc don't want American kids salivating over 1950's planes & pilots that stand up straight .
gone.c-33
·4 months agoDid you happen to spend some time at McGill between ‘57 and ‘64?
Anyway, ever thought that the reason they’re not allowing these things to be sold is so that the bad communisssssts do NOT gain access to it?
argus_museum
OP4 months ago@christworks @gone.c-33 @spendingcents26150 @nh_sales_lv
Thanks everyone for the sympathetic replies.
In response to @gone.c-33 , I was never at McGill, but I was lucky to spend 3 good years at Tempelhof in Berlin ('72-'75).
Mike
gone.c-33
·4 months agoNo worries, that reply wasn’t aimed at you but at nh sales 😉
I’m sure you have nothing to worry about, the warning is just there in case you were posting about a manual for the RB-36 Peacemaker, the recon version of the better known B36.
Unfortunately, the only programming seemed to have been that if some combinations of letters and numbers are detected, throw up the warning, never mind that model numbers are bound to be repeated now that we’re a good couple hundreds of years into mass production of items 😂
grann-4629
·4 months agoJust out of curiosity, would eBay allow the sale of an Enigma machine? It's a true piece of history and a testament to the amazing work done at Bletchley Park (sp?). It was also used by the bad guys during WWII.
Their profits, if allowed, would be enormous.
gone.c-33
·4 months agoThe Enigma was actually the bad guy’s, Turing’s decoder was named “Bombe”. I think a version used by the NSDAP might be verboten on eBay on account of where it was from but I feel like it would be listed for such a high price people selling/buying would be insane to do such a transaction on eBay. Makes me wonder what was the most expensive item sold on eBay (and actually paid for).
Now, I’m not even smart enough to understand how the machine worked in the first place, but I do believe its coding is now obsolete thanks to computer programming so I don’t think there’s any military ban on selling them.
I also wonder how many units still exist today. On one hand, you’d want to keep the numbers low so only a few people would be able to read the messages, on the other hand, items from era were usually built to last (we have a fridge from the 40s in the garage that’s still running) so those that were not destroyed on purpose must still be around.
thanks for the rabbit hole idea 😂
grann-4629
·4 months agoAn original Enigma machine with all parts matching would probably be worth about $500K. There was one on 'Pawn Stars' a few years ago that had reproduction rotors and nameplate and the owner wanted $100K. I forget what Rick paid for it, or even if he bought it.
In terms of the James Bond stuff it was designed for, it would be of no use to modern day spies. It's coding was obsolete before the end of the war thanks to the work done by the British codebreakers. When you look at the complexity of the Enigma, it was an amazing piece of technology using components only available in the 1940's.
Rich kids could have fun if they a couple of them tho ...
argus_museum
OP4 months ago@gone.c-33
Thanks for the clarifications.
To be clear about what was being listed, it was in fact a manual for the RB-36 Peacemaker's photo crew (78 pages with plastic covers). It was well-written and nicely illustrated with B&W drawings and diagrams (see below). The content was labeled "Restricted," but contained no classified material.
Mike
gone.c-33
·4 months agoOoh! I assumed it was an old camera with the same model number.
That’s pretty cool!
grann-4629
·4 months agoI am assuming that blueprints of the SR-71 and the U-2 are definite no-no's on eBay😢
christworks
·4 months ago@argus_museum Did you actually list it or did the warning pop up when you tried to list it? I'm curious if your category or word choice is at play. While I've not had that specific type of warning, I have received a similar warning a time or two for other items. At the moment I'm not recalling what they were. I do recall I changed the category for them and I was able to list without any issues. I'm not suggesting you try that with that item, as I do believe eBay intends for those manuals not to be listed. I don't think it matters whether it is in the public domain. I think they do not want things to slip through that sellers think are fine, and it is easier to block them all. As you said, it is not enforced in an even manner, which is why I would check the categories the other sellers are using.
argus_museum
OP4 months ago@christworks
Your observations make sense. I have noticed that similar items are often listed in non-military categories. If the bot focuses on "militaria," it would explain listings in more generic categories. Of course that would be a big oversight even for eBay.
My warning came up when I hit "List it." The listing gave a brief description of the text of the book. The book text said explicitly that classified information had been excluded. One possible issue is that I included images of pages that said "Restricted" in very small print. The bot would have had to do character recognition on the images to find that.
Mike