Question about Appealing a Dispute Decision
I recently sold property on eBay and eBay wrongfully charged the buyer sales tax. The buyer spoke with two people at eBay and they both agreed that sales tax should not have been charged, so he opened a dispute. I received an email from eBay yesterday saying that they found in the buyer's favor and that the sales tax amount and a $20 dispute fee was going to be removed from my bank account.
Doesn't eBay keep the sales tax that is charged? So shouldn't eBay be paying the buyer back?
Also, I tried to call the 800 number for eBay and I got a message that it's outside of business hours. But it says they are open from 5 am to 930 pm PT and it's 2 pm PT. Is it actually possible to speak with someone or is there another way to open a dispute?
67 comments
mam98031
·2 years agoYes, update please @spansy02 . We have been trying to help you, please don't leave us without knowing your outcome.
gurlcat
·2 years agoDid yall not read ALL of the OP's update yesterday (message #55)? They got resolution already, or at least the promise of it: "He read the dispute and said he would refund the money right away. So we'll see what happens."
mam98031
·2 years agoI read. The OP to my knowledge has not had resolution to this issue. At least not that they have reported here. IDK about you, but I've been told things from someone at CS and it has never come to pass. However I hope you are right and the OP has this problem fixed and refunded to them already. That would be the best outcome.
Ebay should refund the amount they forced the seller to refund the buyer.
They should refund the $20 Chargeback Fee
And they should refund the OP for the FVFs on the Sales tax that Ebay was responsible to refund [even though they should not have been made to in the first place].
spansy02
OP2 years agoOk, so here's what happened. I went around in circles with the eBay help assistant (and yes, it was actually through the eBay website). I tried the 800 number again, but got the same message that it was outside of regular business hours. The help assistant did give me the option of having someone call me, but I was reluctant because everyone here said it was a scam. So I messaged the eBay FB page. They answered me right away, but as soon as I told them what I needed, they told me they couldn't help me and gave me a link back to the help page on eBay. I explained that I had already gone in circles with that and that no one answers the 800 number. She said not to use that and to request a call back. So I reluctantly did and someone call me back right away. And yes, it was eBay because he had all of my information. He read the dispute and said he would refund the money right away. So we'll see what happens.
Also, I asked him what was happening with the 800 number and he said they've been having problems with is and were working on it.
So facebook was useless and using the help bot to get a callback seems to have worked. We'll see for sure one the refund comes through.
stephenmorgan
·2 years agoWhen on eBay's web site using the Help Assistant if it provides a phone number or offers a call back, this is legitimate.
It is when you find a number by searching the internet that the scam phone numbers and emails will appear.
mam98031
·2 years agoThey don't provide a phone number, but getting a call back can be an options. A great option IMHO.
mam98031
·2 years agoI think you misunderstood. The call back is an EXCELLENT choice. I use it when I need some assistance. I think the longest I've ever waited for the call back was about 5 minutes.
stephenmorgan
·2 years ago@spansy02
Did you get this resolved?
spansy02
OP2 years agoNo. I'm working on it again today.
stephenmorgan
·2 years agoSounds like you have a clear error.
Sometimes you have to give up on Customer Service and file a formal compliant.
I would gather all the support documents such as
copy of Order Details
emails that initiating claim from buyer/eBay
email finding in favor of buyer
email taking back the Taxes and Fees from you account.
anything else that would support your claim against eBay
Then I would file a formal Notice of Dispute with this information. Once you do this someone of competent authority will review the situation and correct it if there is anyway they can.
I doubt very seriously you would have to go beyond a Notice of Dispute to get this corrected.
Notice_of_Dispute.pdf
18 Legal Disputes User Agreement | eBay
Your order details will show everything about the sale and where all the money went, see sample below. Anything with a minus went to eBay for them to distribute as needed.
mam98031
·2 years agoNot that I've every tried this or had any customer do this before, but I wasn't aware that a Credit card company would even do a PARTIAL chargeback.
slippinjimmy
·2 years agoOf course they will, they will dispute any amount the cardholder asks for. I've only ever done 2 chargebacks in my life, one of them was a partial overcharge at a motel. They billed my card for two nights but I was only there one night. I contacted them first for a credit but they wanted to deny and argue (and it cost them). Being an "honest" person I only requested a refund of the extra night.
stephenmorgan
·2 years agoI did one once over a multi item internet purchase. Only had a problem with one item in the purchase so I was only asking for a partial refund of that one item. Sometimes ordering stuff off the internet it is very difficult to get customer service after the purchase so you may need to ask you Credit Card for help.
Recently my wife did one over a Motel reservation. Due to the condition of the Motel upon arrival, the Motel agreed to cancel the reservation and only charge her one day (not the 5 reserved) and gave her a $180 coupon to use on a future stay. Of course they did charge her the 5 days. It was my Credit Card so I initiated a Charge Back and it was resolved as a partial refund of the 4 unused days.
ma-647837
·2 years agoeBay does not have an 800 number, that's a scammer.
Unfortunately, regardless repeating it here and now on other threads, still won't make that true.
The fact is, eBay does not have an 800 number, and the scammer is not shutting it down.
If eBay appears to have an 800 number, it's actually a scammer.
mam98031
·2 years agoThank you for the information, however I'm not wrong, you simply disagree which is fine.
I have often stated that members do NOT do an internet search for a phone number to Ebay CS. The return will likely be SCAMMERS. Ebay has several ways in which people can contact them and I've posted that before on this thread, but if anyone wants it again, simply ask.
tobaccocardyahoo
·3 years agoI believe California is a marketplace tax state.
Although marketplace tax looks a lot like sales tax, whether all of the rules and conditions, or even the rate charged, is dependent on how the marketplace tax law in the state is written. In some states, for example, the marketplace tax rate is consistent and does not vary by locality like the sales tax. Simplification was a goal to reduce the burden on internet marketplaces.
I would not be surprised if neither the bank nor Ebay know the details and whether that cemetery plot exemption caries over.
And I doubt you will find anyone who cares enough to research it.
an-36344
·3 years ago(Responding in the box at the bottom as this combines several posts.)
eBay does not have an 800 number. Please do the research, and don't give this wrong answer again.
eBay does not have FVF to refund in a payment dispute. Please do the research, and don't give this wrong answer again.
Oh and please read each OP carefully e.g. to misread and lambast the responder how could the OP be off-topic when they wrote the topic then have to backpedal afterwards.
mam98031
·3 years ago@an-36344
The box at the very bottom of the page is greyed out. Once you start typing in it, it will appear as a regular box you use to post your comments. The thing that makes that box different is that it will not have an "in response to" line just below your Avatar and info. It allows us to make general comments not meant for anyone in particular.
What I stated before is true. Ebay does currently have an 800 number. However Ebay doesn't want us using that number to call in for help as they are phasing it out. We have several other ways to get in contact with Ebay, which I posted earlier and can post again if anyone needs it.
I'm aware that Ebay does not refund FVF when a seller loses a Chargeback. But this subject is a bit different than normal. The OP states that the Chargeback was ONLY for the sales tax and they lost that Chargeback. Sales tax is the responsibility of Ebay to charge and pay the appropriate state. The seller has nothing to do with that. So if it is correct that the Chargeback was only for the Sales Tax, that is something Ebay should have refunded to the buyer and therefore the seller should not be charged the $20 dispute fee and they should get their FVFs back on the sales tax refunded by Ebay.
I appreciate your concern for what "research" I do or don't do. With that said, everything I'm saying now and I previously said is true whether or not you agree with it.
I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here, but there is no need to try to school me on something I'm not wrong about. It appears you are the one with the misunderstanding.
rseuqinh
·3 years agoThat's a scammer @spansy02 as eBay doesn't have an 800 number, let alone office hours when they'll answer.
When a charge appears on a buyer's credit card statement -- it's just a single amount
> There's no breakout of the item, the shipping, the sales tax, etc.
So when the buyer files a chargeback on a portion of the charge equal to the sales tax
> eBay won't know that it's for the sales tax and not a discount on the shipping or a discount on the item.
If the chargeback had ended at eBay, instead of passing it on to you
- eBay would be refunding that amount to the buyer, and
- if eBay realized that it's sales tax, that amount would be deducted
- from the future sales tax collection total that eBay regularly remits to that state.
mam98031
·3 years agoEbay does have an 800 number but they are shutting it down and encouraging members that have the number to stop using it. At some point it is not likely to work at all but we have other methods in which to contact them.
Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service. Please be aware that for social media CS, you send them a Private Message and briefly explain what your problem or issue is. Feel free to leave your Name, address, phone number and/or your email address in this message. It is private and secure and it may help to speed up the response for you.
https://twitter.com/askebay
https://www.facebook.com/eBay/
Your options will be on the left. If you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant or Chat box type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options. Not all options are available 24/7. It will depend on staffing available. So sometimes you can request a call back and sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have the Chat option available and other times it won't me. If it is important to you to use one of those options, just try back later.
If you use a cell phone or other mobile device, you may need to turn off your Spam filter so that Ebay can call you.
If you are a seller outside of the US or Canada, you will need to use the Chat Option.
https://www.ebay.com/help/home
For the Payment Team / Managed Payment Customer Service.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/start-getting-paid-ebay?id=4795&st=
spansy02
OP3 years agoThank you, everyone for all of the suggestions on how to contact eBay. I'll give those a try.
mam98031
·3 years ago@spansy02
If the buyer only opened the Chargeback for specifically the sales tax, then that should be refunded to the buyer by Ebay. You should not have a single penny come from your money, to include the $20 fee for losing a Chargeback.
So when you talk to Ebay, Let them know that they lost the Chargeback for sales tax in which sellers are not responsible for, so you should not be made to pay the $20 fee or any other fee.
Oh and you should receive a refund on your FVFs for the amount they charged you on the Sales tax that was returned to the buyer, again because it was not your issue to begin with.
mam98031
·3 years ago@spansy02
WE are missing important information. If you were charged $20, then the dispute was NOT opened on Ebay. Your buyer would have gone to their Credit Card Company and disputed the charge.
On a Chargeback Ebay does NOT make the decision on the claim, the Credit Card Company does. Ebay has to abide by the decision of the CCC. They have no choice.
If the CCC ordered the full refund to the buyer, Ebay would refund the sales tax and the seller would refund the product price and any shipping charges.
DO NOT call 800 numbers to try and contact Ebay. If you do an internet search to call them, you will likely get a SCAM number. Below are the ONLY options you should use. Ebay doesn't have a number we can call to contact them anymore.
I would suggest that you contact Ebay for Business on Facebook or Twitter for the better trained CSRs.
Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service. Please be aware that for social media CS, you send them a Private Message and briefly explain what your problem or issue is. Feel free to leave your Name, address, phone number and/or your email address in this message. It is private and secure and it may help to speed up the response for you.
https://twitter.com/askebay
https://www.facebook.com/eBay/
Your options will be on the left. If you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant or Chat box type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options. Not all options are available 24/7. It will depend on staffing available. So sometimes you can request a call back and sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have the Chat option available and other times it won't me. If it is important to you to use one of those options, just try back later.
If you use a cell phone or other mobile device, you may need to turn off your Spam filter so that Ebay can call you.
If you are a seller outside of the US or Canada, you will need to use the Chat Option.
https://www.ebay.com/help/home
For the Payment Team / Managed Payment Customer Service.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/start-getting-paid-ebay?id=4795&st=
spansy02
OP3 years agoI don't sell on eBay very much and this is my first dispute. I'll have to look at the dispute again.
As for the 800 number, I got it from eBay after going around in circles with their help bot. I'll try your suggestions though. Thank you.
doc-holmes
·3 years agoNot gonna lie, eBay wouldn't have been my first thought when searching for cemetery plots.
eBay was right to charge tax - that plot is taxable.
janet9988
·3 years agoEbay customer service should have taken care of this the first time the buyer called.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293
If ebay does not cover you 100% then you should file a complaint here.....
You can report ebay https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/rptfraud.htm
soh.maryl
·3 years agoSo we do know for sure that the state of California doesn't charge state sales tax on cemetery plots?
janet9988
·3 years agohttps://www.taxes.ca.gov/Sales_and_Use_Tax/WhatsTaxable.html
albertabrightalberta
·3 years agoI looked it up. California doesn't charge tax on cemetery plots:
Cemetery Exemption – Property Tax
Cemetery Exemption
The Cemetery Exemption is available to property used or held exclusively for the permanent deposit of human dead, or for the care and maintenance of the property of the dead, except when used or held for profit (See Section 256.5 of Revenue and Taxation Code). The purpose of the Cemetery Exemption is to protect the final resting place of the human dead (See Section 3(g) of Article XIII of the California Constitution).
Health and Safety Code section 7003 defines "cemetery" as either of the following:
A property that is discovered to have six or more human bodies buried on it is not eligible for the exemption unless it is used or held exclusively for burial purposes as described in Property Tax Rule 132(a).
@spansy02
I'm curious. Did the buyer filed the chargeback for the full purchase price or just for the tax they were charged? Did they get a refund for the full price of the plot, i.e., getting it for free?
lacemaker3
·3 years ago@albertabrightalberta,
I think you conclusion may be incorrect. See what I highlighted above in red.
I would interpret that as saying that a burial plot is exempt from sales tax in California, unless it is being sold at a gain (profit).
OP does provide the current sale price (from the cemetery) as a comparison, but it would seem likely that the plots in question were purchased some time ago, to save money in the expectation that the price would go up, as that is the usual reason for purchasing something like this in advance.
There's a fairly good chance that they were sold at a profit, in which case it would seem that the sales tax was applied correctly, because it appears that the plots were being held for a profit, since they were no longer going to be used by the owner for their intended purpose.
At any rate, if a buyer is charged sales tax on an exempt purchase, they can file a request to be refunded for it, and eBay will do that. eBay does this fairly frequently for bullion sales (precious metals) when they are sold at (or below) the spot price, which in most states is the requirement for bullion sales to be tax exempt.
In this case, however, it appears that the buyer didn't do that. Instead, they filed a chargeback with their credit card, for the amount they felt they had been overcharged (the sales tax). I think that is the only real explanation for why the seller was charged for the refund of the sales tax, which the seller did not receive in the first place.
It seems unfortunate that, because the buyer did not follow eBay policy, but went to a chargeback, the seller is being penalized, and force to refund an amount that he did not receive, in addition to being charged a $20 penalty.
@spansy02, in a situation like this, your best way to try to get a reasonable solution is to contact the eBay for Business page on Facebook.
spansy02
OP3 years agoThe dispute was just for the sales tax.
fjbet13
·3 years agoThat shows that it is exempt from property taxes, not sales tax
soh.maryl
·2 years agoThank you! Finally someone pointed out the distinction between state sales tax and property tax!
slippinjimmy
·3 years agoThat is PROPERTY Tax, not related in any way to Sales Tax.
I tried to find a definitive answer if plots were SALES tax exempt in California, no success, so at this point I would say that possibly/probably they are taxable (sales tax). I did find confirmation that in at least some States the purchase of a cemetery plot is subject to Sales Tax.
mam98031
·3 years agoIt appears that both the buyer and the Credit Card Company misunderstood this too.
lacemaker3
·3 years ago@slippinjimmy,
Excellent catch!
I must admit, if you google < California sales tax grave plot >, that is the top hit, and it is the only one from a California government website that appears to be relevant. But, you're correct, that is for property tax, not sales tax.
After reading your post, I also tried to get a definitive answer. I was able to confirm that sales of "tangible property" related to cremations and interments are taxable, but no mention of grave plots. I searched through the the entire legislation on the website, and could not find anything relating to grave or cemetery plots, specifically. Caskets, urns, vaults, and mausoleums were mentioned, and related services, but not plots.
https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/lawguides/vol2/suta/370-0000-all.html
From that, and your realization that cemeteries and burial grounds are subject to property tax (but exempt in most cases), I suspect that grave plots would be considered real property, and would be subject to property tax when sold except that cemeteries and burial grounds are exempt from property tax. In addition, I don't believe that the title to a grave plot actually passes to the person who "purchases" it. The real property in question still belongs to the cemetery, so there is no actual "sale" taking place, and no sales tax.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoYour citation refers to Property Taxes. Wasn't the original question about State Sales Taxes?
janet9988
·2 years agoIt does not really matter as this is between the seller and ebay.
Ebay should never have charged the $20 fee and taken the sales tax out of the sellers money.
I wonder what tax expert and information the CC company used to back up the case for a tax refund BUT again that is not on the seller to figure out.
mam98031
·2 years agoI agree with you and said it a couple times earlier in this thread. However I'm a bit concerned that we may not have all the important info from the OP. I've asked a couple times but they have not responded, to verify for the Chargeback was ONLY for the sales tax. â“
spansy02
OP2 years agoI actually did answer. YES, the dispute was only for the sales tax amount.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoGuess I'm incredibly dense here, but why does it not matter?
If the State of California charges state sales tax on ANY particular item, then wouldn't that state sales tax be charged when that item is purchased?
And, as a side note, has it been established whether or not California charges state sales tax as mentioned.
janet9988
·2 years agoThe seller does not have the sales tax money whether it was rightfully or wrongfully collected from the buyer.
Ebay gave the buyer a refund from the sellers pocket. Yet ebay keeps that tax money illegally.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoSo, if the state where the item is purchased does charge state sales tax on that particular item, and the buyer paid that tax along with the item cost, you believe that eBay keeps the state sales tax funds?
janet9988
·2 years agoIf ebay was paid the sales tax and the seller refunded the sales tax then ebay still has the money for the sales tax that was refunded.
Seems ebay agreed with the CC outcome about the sales tax and it not being charged because ebay took money from the SELLER for the sales tax amount and charged the seller the dispute fee.
If ebay were to determine that sales tax was correctly charged then the buyer would have lost the claim.
So ebay knows the refund was for sales tax and agreed to seek the refund from the seller... Ebay just kept that sales tax money anyways instead of reimbursing the buyer themselves which they are in full control to have done so. Even the two EBAY customer service reps agreed yet they could have also refunded the buyer the first time the buyer called since CS agreed with the buyer. Ebay is responsible for knowing the laws.
Per ebays own policy see below......
If the seller is not eligible and the buyer's payment institution decides that the buyer is owed a refund, eBay will seek reimbursement from the seller
mam98031
·2 years ago@janet9988
I don't believe the OP has said that Ebay took the money from them. However since they charged them the $20 fee, it sounds like they did. Which makes me question if the OP left out some details. Ebay knows that a seller doesn't have anything to do with the taxes. Something just doesn't add up for me. We are missing some information IMHO.
stephenmorgan
·2 years agoI agree is seems like something is missing.
If it happen as stated this would be a clear error that can be fixed by eBay.
spansy02
OP2 years agoThe sales tax amount plus $20 has been removed from my bank account.
I'm not sure what information everyone thinks I'm withholding. This is what I know.
I sold a cemetery plot.
The buyer was charge sales tax by eBay and he paid it.
After he paid it, he opened a dispute, saying that he shouldn't have been charge sales tax.
He spoke with 2 people at eBay and they agreed.
I replied to the dispute and explained what was going on (that eBay charges sales tax when they shouldn't have).
eBay sent the information to his credit card company for review.
The credit card company sided with the buyer.
eBay then sent a message to me, saying they were going to remove the sales tax plus $20 from my bank account, which they did.
But really this isn't what I needed help with. I just needed to confirm that eBay should have been the one to pay the sales tax back and I needed to know how to actually contact eBay.
Also, people saying that there's no 800 number need to mess around with eBay's help bot. Because that thing gives out an 800 number. And it's definitely the eBay website. I never did an internet search.
ma-647837
·2 years agoThe credit card doesn't know that $200 of the $2,000 charge (because it's not itemized) is for sales tax
-- just like the credit card doesn't know that $10 of the $80 charge is for the expired yogurt.
The CC leaves it up to the grocery store to discover that it was yogurt and not the $10 delivery fee
-- just like they leave it for eBay to see (they won't) that the $200 is that "sales" tax, not a discount on the cemetery plot.
So not caring that it's sales tax, eBay just passes the $200 payment dispute to @spansy02 the seller, with 2 choices:
1. Refund the $200, we may refund (it's not policy) your FVF if you ask, and we won't charge a $20 dispute fee.
2. Challenge the $200 even though we are wrong, and we will refund from your funds and take that $20.
rosszonebricks
·3 years agoThe conundrum in my mind is why eBay would have the seller refund the sales tax. Money collected from sales tax never actually reaches the seller's account.
Re: Contacting eBay: Use eBay for Business (https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness) on Facebook and send a message.
spansy02
OP3 years agoThank you. That's the conundrum in my mind too. Now I just have to convince eBay that they made a mistake. If I can ever get ahold of them.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoAlso, eBay DOES NOT and CANNOT "keep the sales tax that is charged".
Any state sales charged by any seller, online or in brick & mortar stores is remitted to the treasury of the state for which the state sales tax is charged.
spansy02
OP3 years agoYes, I'm aware that they don't keep the sales tax. What I meant is that they retain it and pass it on to the state. And the seller never sees that money.
inhawaii
·3 years agoQ: When your buyer made the purchase, didn't it show that he was being charged sales tax?
ittybitnot
·3 years agoQ: When your buyer made the purchase, didn't it show that he was being charged sales tax?
@inhawaii
It doesn't matter. The Buyer did a c.card chargeback for the sales tax that the OP seller never received in the first place. Seller got to pay the $20 chargeback fee because ........????? Sellers do not get the sales tax money, so what seller funds did eBay suck if from to refund the buyer plus the penalty for losing?
Sounds like eBay's chargeback bot is on steroids.
inhawaii
·3 years agoI understand.
That sucks for the OP.
I hope they can get it worked out with ebay.
I was just curious though, why the buyer didn't see that he/she was being charged tax at the time of purchase and slam on the brakes?
ittybitnot
·3 years agoI was just curious though, why the buyer didn't see that he/she was being charged tax at the time of purchase and slam on the brakes?
@inhawaii
Perhaps it was one of those occasions where the buyer had to put up a funding source FIRST in order to bid (or offer). The whole thing is paid for immediately at auction end (or offer acceptance) without the benefit of additional review. A buyer would have to assume they would not be assessed tax on goods that were not taxable in their state or country.
stephenmorgan
·3 years agoIf eBay can not determine that they are the one who collected the sales tax then this would indicate how much effort on your behalf they will put into a Credit Card Dispute.
spansy02
OP3 years agoYes it did, but I wasn't aware that CA does charge sales tax on cemetery plots and I assumed eBay knew what it was doing.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoSo the state where the buyer is located (presumably CA) does not charge state sales tax on cemetery plots?