Potential Scammer - Help with buyer requested MBG return on MacBook Air M1
Hello!
I recently started selling things on eBay and, after talking about my great experiences with my sister, she asked me to sell her MacBook Air for her. Using a clear description and detailed photos, I listed it at a fair price with ad promotion and it sold in less than 12 hours! There were a couple of things that seemed odd about the transaction (zero feedback, address formatted strangely with house number in Line 2, buyer using only an initial for their last name) but we exchanged a few messages to confirm shipping address and availability for signature-on-delivery before I shipped it out and went about my merry day.
I packaged the MBA in its original box, inserted that into an oversized air cushion sleeve for shipping laptops, then added bundles of 1/2†bubble wrap to all 6 sides of the item so that it didn’t shift around inside the box too much.
Package is signed for at 7:09 PM, and I get an eBay Money Back Guarantee Return Request at 7:56 PM. Buyer states “Merry Christmas. Hope you’re doing well. Unfortunately, my screen came damaged. It’s very bad weather over here in the north east, the package was kinda damp. I don’t know if it’s liquid damage or not but i took it to the Apple Store to reset it and they said there’s no warranty on it which I thought it didâ€
Original listing here
Buyer photos here
AppleCare+ status here
What strikes me as “off†about the situation is that the buyer claims to have received their package, opened it, taken it to an Apple Store (3 nights before Christmas) and then taken it back home to photograph and report within a 45-min time frame. I also did a quick S/N search to make sure that removing the MacBook from FindMy didn’t cancel AC+, and it’s 100% covered still. Looking at the photos that buyer sent, it looks like the finger slot for opening the MacBook on the photo of the bottom of the case has a dent in it. My fear is that the buyer plans to ship back a different MBA in the box and I’m going to have to explain to my disabled sister that I lost her laptop to a scammer.
I shipped via UPS Ground purchased through eBay and purchased insurance for full sale price. Does anyone have guidance for how I should approach this? I’m sorry if this is too long of a read. Just very nervous because I’ve only sold a few things on eBay and don’t really understand how this whole process works. I haven’t responded to the buyer yet.
junkinabox
·2 years agoThese are your options :
-Accept the return.
-Send a label and once you receive it, refund in full. eBay will refund the fees.
-Refund the buyer now and eBay will refund the fees. You will not get the item back but do not have to pay return shipping.
-Or do nothing, eBay will refund the buyer and allow them to keep the item. You will most probably get a negative fb. eBay will keep all fees and give you a seller defect.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoThe only protection you have on here if scamming buyer sends back different item is to deduct 50 percent off the refund. You can do this if you offer free returns. However, if scamming buyer is persistent they will do a credit card chargeback for the rest of the funds. Laptops, and cell phones are very high scam items on here and always have been. My advice, do not sell them here. Sell them locally.
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoI see people trying to offer "helpful" bits of information that make it appear like ebay cares and has options for you - In my opinion, there is little to zero doubt you are being scammed and its been that way right from the start of this sale-gone-wrong like so many others here - What you need to do now is begin to take control of this situation - Document everything carefully and use that information to file police reports, Post Office fraud reports and IC3 fraud reports and use that information to attempt to get your money back from the company that facilitated this sale.
You are most likely going to get back something you didn't send, or nothing at all, meaning they sent something to your zip code, but not to you - That being the case, get all the information you can from the post office regarding where the item was returned using the tracking information - Again, document everything for use in filing criminal reports against the buyer - This is a crime though most here likes to look at it like a "cost of doing business". Utilize Social Media to contact ebay for help or to get your story out if you are not having luck at first... Best of luck to you...
From our experience with similar situations, doesnt seem like much is being done to curtail this type of situation. Our biggest loss that we eventually recovered, started with a buyer blatantly ripping us off and ebay siding with them to our amazement - We couldnt stand for that, so we decided to make sure as many reports were filed against this buyer as possible to get them booted off the site - Silly us for thinking a buyer, even a blatantly criminal one, could get booted - What we found was a years worth of false positive feedback from sellers complaining about the same type of theft we experienced. After reaching out to sellers to ask them to file reports, we found there were AT LEAST 10 over the previous 90 days who had already reported this buyer and another 5 or 6 who said they were going to after our contact...Guess what ...Fast forward 4 or 5 months down the road and there they were, still buying and ripping people off with impunity...For all we know they are still at it..
ittybitnot
·2 years ago(zero feedback, address formatted strangely with house number in Line 2, buyer using only an initial for their last name)
@madbra-3893
To what city/state did you ship the computer? Delaware perhaps? Is that address that of a Freight Forwarder by chance? (google it)
With a Zero feedback buyer you cannot readily see their feedback page that tells in what country they are registered, but you can find out. For example, here is the link to YOUR feedback page that is obtained by clicking on the (2) under your name:
https://feedback.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/madbra-3893?&ssPageName=STRK:ME:UFS
If you remove your ID after the / and before the ? and insert the ID of your buyer you can go to that page.
The scenario and concerns you are describing fit a particular pattern, for which you can possibly be a bit proactive before it gets worse.
Know that buyers don't have to ship YOUR item back before eBay will refund them from your proceeds. There is no seller protection for faulty returns, but there may be some protections available to you if this involves shipping to a freight forwarder.
madbra-3893
OP2 years agoHi! It was in North Babylon, NY. It does seem consistent with what I’m hearing about **bleep**, but I’ve already accepted the return and issued a shipping label. I guess that I’ll just have to keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.
madbra-3893
OP2 years agoThanks for all of your responses. So far, the buyer is keeping communication open and seems to be working with me so I’m feeling better about the situation. The odd thing is, after accepting the return and choosing the eBay provided return label, they defaulted to FedEx return shipping. Is that normal? I assumed that they would use the same carrier that I chose for original shipping.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoThe odd thing is, after accepting the return and choosing the eBay provided return label, they defaulted to FedEx return shipping. Is that normal?
@madbra-3893
I think they are not supposed to, but they do.
@wastingtime101
wastingtime101
·2 years agoIt's not "normal". eBay has been testing FedEx return labels for a small group of sellers for approx a year. It's caused a lot of problems
The "normal" option is USPS return label exclusively, regardless of the original carrier.
That said, this specific return case was resolved over a month ago and @junkinabox has bumped the discussion for seemingly no reason. They are doing that a lot lately, along with copy/pasting other posters posts - again, seemingly for no reason. Very odd.
Thanks for the tag @ittybitnot .
ckimodog
·2 years ago@madbra-3893
Sorry for your situation. Phones and electronics are the most scammed items on the internet. I would never sell anything that expensive here on this or any e commerce platform. As others have stated, accept the return & send the label. Hopefully you won't get a switch out. Also, as a new seller, I would be careful selling such expensive items right off the bat. eBay will ask you for tracking and most likely receipts for those items you sold. Lots of stolen merchandise here on this venue and eBay is cracking down, as the law is leaning on them hard. Please be careful and protect yourself. You need to add in your listing that you accept returns, as thieves can work around your no returns policy. On eBay, no returns does not mean no refunds.
Good luck and Happy Holidays
caldreamer
·2 years agoScammers target new sellers or anyone selling "high value item" (especially electronics that can be easily resold). EBAY will not protect you if you get scammed.
EBAY Money Back Guarantee (supersedes "no returns" policy) allows customer to claim "defective, not as described, counterfeit" (you will be forced to refund "purchase price + shipping BOTH ways"). Even if customer returns "box of rocks" EBAY will still force you to refund money. EBAY always rules in favor of the customer and they are NOT forced to prove any claims.
Did you insure through EBAY ShipCover insurer (click on box to add insurance when printing the label)? I have found they are very good at paying for damage without any hassle. https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/shipping-insurance?
But if you purchased insurance directly through USPS not sure how you would do insurance claim with USPS (since customer is in possession of the damaged computer). USPS would need to inspect packaging and item (to determine if faulty packaging is your problem or USPS damaged item). Go to USPS.com and they have detailed info of requirements.
Sorry this happened to you...
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoRight now, all you can do is accept the return and provide a shipping label, then hope for the best.
madbra-3893
OP2 years ago@the-hook-and-the-loop @mtgraves7984 Thanks for responding so quickly! Is there anything else that I should request from the buyer to help with an UPS insurance claim beforehand? Photos of external packaging, item box, etc?
the-hook-and-the-loop
·2 years agoIt couldn't hurt. I'm not too familiar with the insurance claim process these days with UPS. Best to contact them.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoIf you want to try an insurance claim:
Ask the buyer for a few pictures of the item and package, then refund the buyer.
Have the buyer hang on to the item and package so it can be inspected.
You file a claim with the carrier.
the-hook-and-the-loop
·2 years agoMy first rule is: don't sell anything expensive on here. When you get it back, if it is a different one, report the buyer from the drop down menu next to the order in your seller's hub and contact eBay via FB or X/Twitter. Hopefully they will protect you. Also, you may have the option to only partially refund them 50%.
mtgraves7984
·2 years agoAlso, you may have the option to only partially refund them 50%.
@madbra-3893
I don't see that you have the option to reduce the refund as you're not TRS offering 30-Day Returns or a seller offering Free Returns. (Free Returns might be a good idea on the relist, as you'll have that option.) I'm kind of hoping that your item comes back, you can use the Apple Care and resell it.
I can't advise on UPS insurance as I don't ship with them... Sorry. Fingers crossed, however it plays out.
mtgraves7984
·2 years agoMy fear is that the buyer plans to ship back a different MBA in the box and I’m going to have to explain to my disabled sister that I lost her laptop to a scammer.
@madbra-3893
Well, that is a shame. But you've not totally lost it... don't live in fear. When the buyer opens a Return request, approve it (which will generate a return shipping label) and make sure you don't refund until her laptop is back to you. Godspeed.
madbra-3893
OP2 years agoI spoke with the buyer, approved the return, issued an eBay return label and then got a notice a couple of hours later that a case had been opened and immediately closed with a full refund to the buyer. There is no longer any information regarding the return, just an option to appeal the outcome to the case. I mentioned verifying that the serial number on the item returned needed to match the serial number on the listing and the box in my message, which might have spooked them? Do you know if eBay has a phone number that I can call to figure out what happened? Very confused.
ckimodog
·2 years ago@madbra-3893
This is terrible. I'm so sorry. You can reach out on social media via Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/ebayForBusiness/
These agents are US CS eBay employees and may better serve you and your situation. Many positive posts with their ability to be helpful. In the past they were helpful concerning my issue at hand. Given it's the holidays you probably won't be able to contact any one until after Monday. First thing Tuesday morning get hold of these people. They can help. Again, very sorry.
Happy Holidays...try to enjoy with your family.
madbra-3893
OP2 years agoFollowing the advice given by @ckimodog to reach out to the eBay For Business Facebook team resulted in a quick and supportive response from an agent. I gave a short explanation, linked this thread for details, and noted that it appears the Buyer may have done this to another Seller for the exact same item a few days before they purchased mine. Thanks for your tip on the new user feedback loophole @ittybitnot!
She swiftly but thoroughly investigated and then gave me a detailed summary of what she found. Here is what she said:
“This is an interesting one, for sure. Normally, I'd say that we'd want to have you go through UPS to file a claim with them before we proceed to an appeal, but that won't be necessary here. Of course you're still welcome to follow up with them on it, but we're going to get you taken care of.
The return was just opened yesterday, and we give all sellers 3 full business days to resolve any issues before we can step in on a claim. However, I see someone escalated the claim earlier today and pushed through a full refund without any notes as to why. This isn't how we're supposed to handle claims, so I've sent off the appropriate coachings to ensure this doesn't happen again.
With that, I'm happy to let you know I've processed a full appeal for this case. This will protect you from any defects or negative neutral feedback, as well as refund you the full amount. Please keep in mind your appeal may take up to 24-48 hours to process and your refund can take a day or two longer (although it's usually much faster). Here within the hour you should receive a confirmation email regarding your appeal, and you're all set! There's nothing else you need to do, but again, if you want to follow up with UPS, that's totally up to you. We truly appreciate all of your hard work, Madison, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday season! ~Paigeâ€
I’m immensely grateful and I wish that I could give everyone an award for how helpful all of you were with this whole situation. I’m fortunate in this resolution, but it’s sad to see that so many sellers get treated in the way that @isaiah53-57 described. Honestly, one can’t help but wonder if there may be some bad apples at eBay involved in some of these MBG scams. Why would eBay care when they get paid either way?
All things considered, I’m more than satisfied with the company’s response and feel supported by the platform for now. Going to enjoy the holidays with my family, free from this burden, and afterwards, I’ll refresh my sales practices with all of the valuable pointers that I learned from you here today. Wishing you all a happy holiday season!
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@madbra-3893
Glad this worked out, and thanks for the update.
Happy holidays!
ckimodog
·2 years ago@madbra-3893
So very happy for you. Enjoy your holidays!
Mele Kalikimaka
ittybitnot
·2 years agoI spoke with the buyer, approved the return, issued an eBay return label and then got a notice a couple of hours later that a case had been opened and immediately closed with a full refund to the buyer.
@madbra-3893
Was there any indication of what the case that had been opened and immediately closed was for? Was it an eBay claim or Payment Dispute? Anything in your case history? Was YOUR money taken for the refund?
madbra-3893
OP2 years agoWas there any indication of what the case that had been opened and immediately closed was for?
Not that I can find. Attaching screenshots of the information available to me. The refund was taken from my account and they are back charging me $181.73 for eBay fees, ad promotion fees and shipping both ways. I went ahead and sent a message to the eBay Facebook page, as suggested by @ckimodog and linked this post requesting assistance.
 
 
 
 
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@madbra-3893
I am sorry, but I am used to using a computer and not familiar with the format used on a phone so it is taking a long time for me to try and figure this out.
Do you know the difference between an eBay case/claim (aka return request) and a Payment Dispute (aka chargeback)? i.e. the 'appearance' or 'wording'?
The part about "you agreed to give the buyer a refund and didn't do it" sounds like something out of a "Payment Dispute" AKA chargeback. I have seen that reason used before, but NOT for any eBay claim. It was a choice for a buyer who is doing a c.card chargeback. That doesn't negate the idea that eBay decided to use that reason or wording today.
Yet, you don't have any notice of the case being "open" in the first place (which would normally give you an option to reply). There are no "time stamps" for the opening / closing of the case other than 12/23. Was there notice of a "return request" aka ebay case/claim for this item that caused you to accept the return?
Accepting a Payment Dispute (aka Chargeback) refunds the buyer and allows them to keep the product.
It says you accepted the return, and issued an RMA number, which suggests a return is involved. It says nothing about issuing a return label. Is there any notice that you issued the label? Can you see the label anywhere? For a Payment Dispute, there is no option to issue a label as there would be with an eBay claim. There is an option to accept the case and issue a refund. There is no option on a payment dispute to require a return or issue a label. There is an option to accept the return request and issue a label with an eBay claim.
This is a confusing mess to be sure.
We need someone who uses the Seller Hub on their phone here to direct you where to look for your claims/disputes, etc. , and that is not me. Hang in there.
Someone will be by. You can use the blue message button on the page linked upthread by @ckimodog on Tuesday.
Do let us know what you find out about this.
BTW your buyer has ZERO feedback and was registered Dec. 7 2023
What did google show is located at the buyer's address?