Police Related Items Policy... PROBLEMS!

So I was under attack again yesterday for the "police related items policy" violations on 3 listings that sold bulk lots of vintage mostly generic patches some police, security, fire, emt, military etc. A total mix assortment, selected at random. The company that made these has been out of business for over 20 years.

I put the main photo of the listing down below for your examination. This is the lot that the patches were taken from and is a good representation of the assortment.

Keep in mind there IS a category for POLICE PATCHES. There is NO category for Security Patches.

Here is the police related items policy:

"What is the policy?

The following items can't be listed for sale on eBay:

Law enforcement and other government-issued uniforms or accessories, such as hats, jackets, and shirts, or replicas of these items
Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer
Official emergency lighting systems or sirens, including lenses or LEDs for these systems"

My question is this. What did I violate? Which part of that policy was violated? There is NO mention of the word "patch" in that policy. There is no mention of the word "security" in that policy. The reason there is no mention of patches in that policy is because THEY ALLOW patches. They HAVE A CATEGORY DEDICATED TO POLICE PATCHES!

Which patches in that photo do you think were the problem?

I appealed. I called and spoke to someone. My appeal was denied. Now I have to call back to get clarification. WHICH PATCH(S) WERE THE PROBLEM HERE?

They have no idea how hard I work. How hard it is to source inventory, spend money on inventory only to have their policy (which is not clear at all) be used against me whenever they feel like it.

Is my time, money and inventory not worth a little more than just a "because we said so?"

I'm not intentionally trying to abuse their policies. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEIR POLICY SAYS IN REGARDS TO THAT LISTING!

I was told in the past by ebay that police patches were perfectly fine. That's why they have a section for them.

movieman630

21830 View listings

Posted 1 year ago·Last reply 1 year ago

35 comments

bonanza125

·1 year ago

8845 View listings

@fbusoni

Yes I have. In fact I occasionally situations like that are on my local news.

bonanza125

·1 year ago

8845 View listings

I think you need to understand the interpretation of what is in the policy. The policy is "Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer"

You can impersonate a police officer with a patch or any other authority. Look at that Parking Enforcement patch. Someone can wear that patch and use it to impersonate an officer. The Police patch and Deputy Sheriff patches. They can be used to impersonate a police officer. You got to understand not everyone asks for a badge. They just see a patch they are wearing. These scam artists use this for bad. I've see situation where these patches were used to commit crimes. So yes it would violate the policy.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

@bonanza125 wrote:
I think you need to understand the interpretation of what is in the policy. The policy is "Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer"

You can impersonate a police officer with a patch or any other authority. Look at that Parking Enforcement patch. Someone can wear that patch and use it to impersonate an officer. The Police patch and Deputy Sheriff patches. They can be used to impersonate a police officer. You got to understand not everyone asks for a badge. They just see a patch they are wearing. These scam artists use this for bad. I've see situation where these patches were used to commit crimes. So yes it would violate the policy.

Again... Where does it state what is and more importantly ISN'T allowed in the POLICE PATCHES CATEGORY? How does one know what patches are acceptable? I understand what you're saying however, people ARE allowed to sell those patches so your argument is just as abstract as their policy.

momtoabeautifuldaughter

·1 year ago

Love my beautiful daughter92 View listings

@movieman630 wrote:
@bonanza125 wrote:
I think you need to understand the interpretation of what is in the policy. The policy is "Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer"

You can impersonate a police officer with a patch or any other authority. Look at that Parking Enforcement patch. Someone can wear that patch and use it to impersonate an officer. The Police patch and Deputy Sheriff patches. They can be used to impersonate a police officer. You got to understand not everyone asks for a badge. They just see a patch they are wearing. These scam artists use this for bad. I've see situation where these patches were used to commit crimes. So yes it would violate the policy.
Again... Where does it state what is and more importantly ISN'T allowed in the POLICE PATCHES CATEGORY? How does one know what patches are acceptable? I understand what you're saying however, people ARE allowed to sell those patches so your argument is just as abstract as their policy.

Also keep in mind you cannot do choice/grab bag/random item listings.

kyle@ebay

Admin1 year ago

Community Advisor0 View listings

@bonanza125 wrote:

I think you need to understand the interpretation of what is in the policy. The policy is "Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer"

You can impersonate a police officer with a patch or any other authority. Look at that Parking Enforcement patch. Someone can wear that patch and use it to impersonate an officer. The Police patch and Deputy Sheriff patches. They can be used to impersonate a police officer. You got to understand not everyone asks for a badge. They just see a patch they are wearing. These scam artists use this for bad. I've see situation where these patches were used to commit crimes. So yes it would violate the policy.

Hey @mam98031 thanks for the tag. I'm replying in this message instead because @bonanza125's post here answers the question perfectly!

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

@kyle@ebay wrote:
@bonanza125 wrote:
I think you need to understand the interpretation of what is in the policy. The policy is "Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer"

You can impersonate a police officer with a patch or any other authority. Look at that Parking Enforcement patch. Someone can wear that patch and use it to impersonate an officer. The Police patch and Deputy Sheriff patches. They can be used to impersonate a police officer. You got to understand not everyone asks for a badge. They just see a patch they are wearing. These scam artists use this for bad. I've see situation where these patches were used to commit crimes. So yes it would violate the policy.
Hey @mam98031 thanks for the tag. I'm replying in this message instead because @bonanza125's post here answers the question perfectly!

Yes, but the policy that we can see and read should reflect that. It needs to add the SPECIFICS about patches. Especially since there is a category for POLICE PATCHES. It's just about putting it in writing something as simple as

"Security or Police patches that resemble badges are prohibited."

It's really just about LETTING US KNOW!

SECURITY GUARDS are not POLICE. The policy doesn't address "Security" patches AT ALL. It doesn't mention PATCHES at all. Just clear it up. It doesn't take more than a paragraph to help ease the burden to both Ebay CS and Sellers.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

I would also add that every single currently used patch could be used to "Impersonate a Police Officer". But you do allow currently used departmental uniform shoulder patches.

It's just vague, and when you have a category specifically for "Police Patches" it doesn't help any of us to be vague.

fbusoni

·1 year ago

0 View listings

@bonanza125 wrote:
I think you need to understand the interpretation of what is in the policy. The policy is "Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer"

You can impersonate a police officer with a patch or any other authority. Look at that Parking Enforcement patch. Someone can wear that patch and use it to impersonate an officer. The Police patch and Deputy Sheriff patches. They can be used to impersonate a police officer. You got to understand not everyone asks for a badge. They just see a patch they are wearing. These scam artists use this for bad. I've see situation where these patches were used to commit crimes. So yes it would violate the policy.

Have you ever seen those YouTube clips which shows real cops busting these imbeciles who pretend to be law enforcement?

It's almost painful to see how stupid these people are.

ten_o_nine

·1 year ago

7508 View listings

My question is this. What did I violate? Which part of that policy was violated? There is NO mention of the word "patch" in that policy. There is no mention of the word "security" in that policy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

@ten_o_nine wrote:
My question is this. What did I violate? Which part of that policy was violated? There is NO mention of the word "patch" in that policy. There is no mention of the word "security" in that policy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer

Again, a badge is NOT A PATCH. A badge is made of metal. When you ask to see an officer's badge they show you the official metal badge that comes with their authority. If they show you an embroidered piece of cloth it is NOT official and holds no authority on its own.

ten_o_nine

·1 year ago

7508 View listings

How would someone know, do they need to ask if it's pinned, clipped, sewn, or ironed?

powell-collectibles

·1 year ago

JBLBFF, Mixed Bag Guy, AND Unofficial Mentor to the Stars2349 View listings

A cloth badge is another name for a patch. Boy Scouts get badges â€“ those are cloth â€“ that they sew onto a uniform, right? I think you were trying far too hard to be right, not get it right. You knew that what you were selling was a risk.

broto_64

·1 year ago

0 View listings

@movieman630 wrote:
@ten_o_nine wrote:
My question is this. What did I violate? Which part of that policy was violated? There is NO mention of the word "patch" in that policy. There is no mention of the word "security" in that policy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer
Again, a badge is NOT A PATCH. A badge is made of metal. When you ask to see an officer's badge they show you the official metal badge that comes with their authority. If they show you an embroidered piece of cloth it is NOT official and holds no authority on its own.

We're not talking actual police, we're talking impersonators.
The really serious ones may be up on all that there information, but the amateur won't care and the person confronted by one such amateur may not know the difference either.
And that's why ebay prohibits all of it, they don't care about the details.

Also I think about the time when we get this sort of nitpicky about trying to avoid detection, we're in trouble.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

I'm not one to try and usurp their policies. I don't care one way or the other what they don't want to allow or why they don't want to allow it.

I simply want to know WHAT the rules are so I can OBEY them. I won't list prohibited items. I won't try to obfuscate prohibited items.

I respect their rules... I'm just pointing out THEY ARE NOT CLEAR RULES and it makes it very difficult to know what they are and how they change.

You don't need to defend their vague policies just to be contrary. Just admit they're vague and that makes it hard to interpret.

momtoabeautifuldaughter

·1 year ago

Love my beautiful daughter92 View listings

@ten_o_nine wrote:
My question is this. What did I violate? Which part of that policy was violated? There is NO mention of the word "patch" in that policy. There is no mention of the word "security" in that policy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Police badges that resemble a current-issue badge or that could be used to impersonate a police officer

I don't think it has so much to do with these being police related as it does that it was a random grab bag type listing which is not allowed.

m60driver

·1 year ago

6057 View listings

Shoulder patches are usually acceptable to sell, but you have some patches there that are worn on a front pocket and can serve as badges and badges are now allowed.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

@m60driver wrote:
Shoulder patches are usually acceptable to sell, but you have some patches there that are worn on a front pocket and can serve as badges and badges are now allowed.

Yes but 1 they are for "Security Guards" and 2 they are not by definition a "badge". A badge is metal.

There's no category for Security items. Security guards ARE NOT police. They are private. Anyone can create a "Security Guard" position for their home or business.

dbfolks166mt

·1 year ago

1086 View listings

EBay's ever expanding list of prohibited and restricted items and some of the ambiguity in those descriptions were/are one of the reasons I began to diversify across multiple platforms and venues. Add the VERO program on top of that and it becomes challenging at times to list certain items. Anything I have that could possibly be in a gray area as far as listing on eBay I simply don't take the risk and utilize other venues.

A lot of other venues have no such restrictions and basically if the item is legal you can sell it. I have even located a couple of sites to move firearms and ammunition through.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

@dbfolks166mt wrote:
EBay's ever expanding list of prohibited and restricted items and some of the ambiguity in those descriptions were/are one of the reasons I began to diversify across multiple platforms and venues. Add the VERO program on top of that and it becomes challenging at times to list certain items. Anything I have that could possibly be in a gray area as far as listing on eBay I simply don't take the risk and utilize other venues.
A lot of other venues have no such restrictions and basically if the item is legal you can sell it. I have even located a couple of sites to move firearms and ammunition through.

I'd love to know the names of those "other places".

dbfolks166mt

·1 year ago

1086 View listings

@dbfolks166mt wrote:
EBay's ever expanding list of prohibited and restricted items and some of the ambiguity in those descriptions were/are one of the reasons I began to diversify across multiple platforms and venues. Add the VERO program on top of that and it becomes challenging at times to list certain items. Anything I have that could possibly be in a gray area as far as listing on eBay I simply don't take the risk and utilize other venues.
A lot of other venues have no such restrictions and basically if the item is legal you can sell it. I have even located a couple of sites to move firearms and ammunition through.

I'd love to know the names of those "other places".

Unfortunately eBay doesn't like it when we post other venues and sites on the forum and I have gotten slapped for doing so. However, they are not that hard to find with a google search.

fbusoni

·1 year ago

0 View listings

So I was under attack again yesterday for the "police related items policy" ... Keep in mind there IS a category for POLICE PATCHES. There is NO category for Security Patches.

You're not a victim. Patches that are made in China and which say "police!" are different from patches that are police accessories.

Obviously, it's up to the seller to know the difference.

I know the provenance of all the items that I list and I am pretty meticulous about knowing what I am selling before I do so.

Maybe sell those patches on FB marketplace... I suspect they'd be scooped up in short order.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

@fbusoni wrote:
So I was under attack again yesterday for the "police related items policy" ... Keep in mind there IS a category for POLICE PATCHES. There is NO category for Security Patches.

You're not a victim. Patches that are made in China and which say "police!" are different from patches that are police accessories.

Obviously, it's up to the seller to know the difference.

I know the provenance of all the items that I list and I am pretty meticulous about knowing what I am selling before I do so.

Maybe sell those patches on FB marketplace... I suspect they'd be scooped up in short order.

So I was under attack again yesterday for the "police related items policy"

None of these were made in China. They were made by an American company named GEMSCO back in the 70s 80s & 90s. They went out of business over 20 years ago.

fbusoni

·1 year ago

0 View listings

@movieman630 wrote:
@fbusoni wrote:
So I was under attack again yesterday for the "police related items policy" ... Keep in mind there IS a category for POLICE PATCHES. There is NO category for Security Patches.

You're not a victim. Patches that are made in China and which say "police!" are different from patches that are police accessories.

Obviously, it's up to the seller to know the difference.

I know the provenance of all the items that I list and I am pretty meticulous about knowing what I am selling before I do so.

Maybe sell those patches on FB marketplace... I suspect they'd be scooped up in short order.

So I was under attack again yesterday for the "police related items policy"
None of these were made in China. They were made by an American company named GEMSCO back in the 70s 80s & 90s. They went out of business over 20 years ago.

Understood... they could have been made by anyone, anytime, anywhere.

The point is whether or not they (or a portion thereof) were made (a) to sell in toy stores, or (b) to supply local law enforcement.

And you, as seller, are on the hook for knowing the difference.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

They were what was left in their inventory when they went out of business. Some were to be used by small local departments (would have had to add their name on them). So they were "generic". Others were just generic Security Guard patches.

I just got off the phone with CS, they informed me there is a more detailed "policy" that only they can see that has a lot of other things on it. It was recently updated to include ANY and ALL "Security Guard" patches and ANY and ALL "BADGE STYLE" patches. Though the policy we see doesn't mention patches at all.

I'm guessing those categories are about to become very busy with violations.

fbusoni

·1 year ago

0 View listings

@movieman630

Your general observations are, I believe, correct.

All one need do is log onto eBay to see that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

As for unannounced policies, I am not the least bit surprised.

And for the record, I do not have the nerve to sell in the categories that you do.

The stuff I sell, while quite valuable, is old, boring and extremely non-controversial, and there is no / no question about what it is and who it was intended for.

Good luck to you.

jg.mason

·1 year ago

1232 View listings

@movieman630 wrote:

I just got off the phone with CS, they informed me there is a more detailed "policy" that only they can see that has a lot of other things on it. It was recently updated to include ANY and ALL "Security Guard" patches and ANY and ALL "BADGE STYLE" patches. Though the policy we see doesn't mention patches at all.

I'm guessing those categories are about to become very busy with violations.

If that is truly the new policy I could have reported just about every listing on the first page of a "police patch lot" search.ðŸ˜‚

johnrj1226

·1 year ago

1193 View listings

You should have reviewed eBays policies on badges BEFORE you invested in inventory and exerted all that BST (Blood Sweat & Tears - also the name pop band of the early 70's). Do see several badges the resemble real badges - some say police, some say sheriffs deputy, etc. Don't think you have a leg to stand on. eBay never promised it would be easy to sell on their site especially if one broke the rules. Most successful sellers - invested, exerted, read up on what rules of the eBay game were, are and stayed current of necessary changes.

Strongly suggest you don't try to relist them again on eBay. Sell them at a local flea market or yard sale - where not many rules apply.

Hard work never hurt anybody - my Mom often told me.

Ciao and Pura Vida

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

Ok. I hear what you're all saying. Most of them are what you call "shoulder or cap patches" I totally get your points but that leads to the BIG question.

What is OK to sell in the "POLICE PATCH" CATEGORY? And how do you interpret that from their policy as it's written?

I was told years ago by ebay that ALL police patches were ok as long as the specific department didn't request that their patches be exempted. (See LAPD). Generic patches were also OK.

A Badge is NOT a patch. A Badge has to be the issued one made of metal to have power. Embroidered patches are NOT badges. They're patches. They carry NO power alone.

SECURITY patches are private, not government. Anyone can be a security guard or create a security guard position for their business or home. A security guard IS NOT POLICE.

Either they need to clarify their policy definitions or just get rid of the category all together. It's not fair the way it's being handled right now.

johnrj1226

·1 year ago

1193 View listings

That is YOUR interpretation. But what eBay published publishes in their User Agreement is what counts. No dobt eBay has a staff of lawyers that scrubs every published communication. How about you did you consult with a legal counsel?

annadryl

·1 year ago

4934 View listings

Is it because you're doing grab-bag or chance listings? That's a different policy, not just relating to police items.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/chance-listings-policy?id=4311&st=3&pos=1&query=Chance%20listings%20policy&intent=mystery&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1160

momtoabeautifuldaughter

·1 year ago

Love my beautiful daughter92 View listings

@annadryl wrote:
Is it because you're doing grab-bag or chance listings? That's a different policy, not just relating to police items.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/chance-listings-policy?id=4311&st=3&pos=1&query=Chance%20listings%20policy&intent=mystery&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1160

This is my thoughts when I read this. That you are doing random/grab bag type and that is not allowed.

movieman630

OP1 year ago

21830 View listings

I swear they make stuff up as they go.

The easier question to ask now is what ARE we allowed to sell?

luckythewinner

·1 year ago

1159 View listings

I swear they make stuff up as they go.

They can and do, and every seller here acknowledged that in the User Agreement:

"we reserve the right to refuse, modify, or terminate all or part of our Services to anyone for any reason at our discretion"

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259

The easier question to ask now is what ARE we allowed to sell?

There are millions of sellers with billions of items that have no issue listing items here.

But when a seller chooses to list items and/or in categories that are restricted by eBay policy or even by local laws in some places eBay does business (ex. black Americana, Nazi items, ivory or animal products, police items, firearm related items, medical devices, drug-related items, CBD and supplements, adult magazines, used underwear, mystery boxes, etc.) IMHO they should not be surprised when issues arise.

fab_finds4u

·1 year ago

257 View listings

Some of your patches resemble police badges. That could be the problem.

mam98031

·1 year ago

Owner / Operator19714 View listings

I would say those Police Department patches / badges violate the policy. If you don't consider them badges, then in the policy above maybe you could consider them uniform accessories.

I'm not quite sure how to give you an answer you will believe. So I'll tag this post and see if we can get a better reason for you that is easier to understand.

@devon@ebay

@kyle@ebay

@elizabeth@ebay