Percentage of items "promoted right now"...interesting stat
This caught my eye...first I've seen this...using the phone app and prepping a listing for a puzzle , in the "Promote Your Listing" section, ebay has helpfully added this "item insight": "37% of items in Toys, Games, and Puzzles are promoted right now."
Sure, I realize that is there to encourage me to use a General Campaign ad. And while it is not a majority of items, that's a pretty substantial percentage. (And I would note the word "items" provides some wiggle room: does item mean the same as listing, or does it mean, for example, one multi quantity listing with 20 available items counts as 20 items?)
ETA: Suggested rate for this puzzle: 11.3%....which is in a "suggested" box between 9% and 13.6%...a well known advertising tactic to make the suggested rate look "reasonable"....it's not "low" (like that measly 9%) and its not too high, like that 13.6%....no, it's....just right! LOL
It would be interesting to see percentages for other categories, if anyone else runs into this.
anasazirose
·1 year agoSo, what happens when 100% of items are promoted? Ebay starts SPL? Super Promoted Listings? How can they possibly promote over a third of a category?
I mean, when I listed a breast pump and went to look at my ad, the promotions were for sex toys, so maybe they relax the meaning of 'similar item'?
selsa84
·1 year agoAntique maps category is 35% of items promoted, and usually they suggest anywhere from 11 to 21%.
fern*wood
·1 year agoI imagine their goal is 100%, so they can be content with raising selling fees across the board without actually making that announcement to avoid the outrage.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques also to your point about the psychology of how the ad rate is displayed - yesterday I tried 8 drafts in different categories just to see what the saturation percentage was, and all 8 of those showed the three boxes with suggested rate in the middle and lower and higher pre-determined amounts on either side.
Looking at those same drafts today, about half of them are defaulting to that display and half look like this, with the suggested ad rate under a single text box that you can edit but that is pre-filled with a number higher than the suggested rate.
If you tap "select a preset ad rate" it switches to the three box view, where interestingly the pre-selected middle option is actually less than the pre-filled rate in the other view (since in this view the middle is the suggested rate) and the next highest option is higher than the pre-filled rate in the other view.
That all definitely suggests eBay is A/B testing this to see which view and default suggestions work "best" - with "best" of course being solely defined as whatever eBay wants it to be.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource
I like the formulation:
"A higher ad rate can help you reach more buyers."
Paying more to eBay would seem to dictate a bit more reassurance, would it not? ðŸ˜
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@valueaddedresource Very interesting. The 13% pre-filled rate being higher than the 12% suggested rate is a win-win for ebay....if the seller doesn't really choose at all, and just goes with the default 13%, ebay wins. If the seller says:" Why would I go with 13% when 12% is the suggested rate? I'm too smart for that, I'll go with the lower amount!" ebay still wins, because the buyer is now "choosing" what ebay really considers the default rate anyway.
I agree, they appear to be doing A/B testing to see which method is most effective.
It has long been clear that the ad business is now a huge part of ebay's strategy. Really, in the absence of an effective way to really grow GMV, it has become the focus of ebay's strategy.) And so we'll see more and more of this sort of tactic. And , as I've said elsewhere, I fully expect the ads team to continue to dominate in 2025. So far, out stores have been off limits. I suspect that will end in 2025, as the ads team is running out of pages that don't have ads. They will push for ever higher rates, they will push for more real estate, and they will add more "perks" (for example, if they highlight listings with videos, it will likely ONLY be promoted listings with video that are highlighted)
ebay is still fond of saying "We only win when you win" But this is no longer true. ebay wins every time somebody clicks a Pay Per Click ad, whether the seller ever sells the item or not. ebay wins every time a seller pays an ad fee for a sale "attributed" to an ad that had nothing to do with the ad (such as halo sales).
Unfortunately for ebay, the ads business is a double edged sword.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques yep, it's at least a little more accurate when Jamie takes out the "only" and makes it less personal with "we win when our sellers win" because just like at the casino, it doesn't really matter which individual gets lucky at any given point in time, the house always wins.
But increasingly it can be said that eBay wins more when certain sellers win vs others, or as you point out not even when sellers "win" but when they are willing to take certain actions regardless of whether they win or not (like using CPC ads) - and when incentives like that are in play, predictable results are sure to follow.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year agoThis might be a good time to remind sellers that, if considering ads, the numbers ebay is showing you aren't really very important. More important numbers are:
1. Do you fully understand how a General ad fee is calculated? Like the FVF , it is calculated on the total price, not the item price. This can add up to a pretty big chunk being taken out of your actual proceeds. So you MUST understand your margins, first and foremost.
2. How much do you need improved sales velocity? High sales velocity is very important for some business models, and not nearly so important for others. In theory, effective use of ads will increase your sales velocity, but this comes at a cost, and you need to know whether it is worth the cost or not.
3. If you need better sales velocity, can you achieve it at less cost by some other method?
Always remember: ebay is trying to sell you ads. Nothing inherently wrong with that. But remember that ebay is looking out for ebay when it sells ads, it isn't looking out for you. It is ebay's profit margins ebay is thinking about. You need to think about your margins.
zamo-zuan
·1 year agoWell let me put it in to perspective with some real numbers.
Some years back before eBay started increasing the reliance on ads, our weekly eBay sales used to be 11x the costs of rent for our warehouses.
Right now, we had to cut back on warehouses, our weekly eBay sales are 1.33x the rent cost of our warehouse.
Now considering 80-90% of our traffic would be gone overnight if we stopped OR EVEN REDUCED our ads, is it really a choice for us to use ads or not?
*I want to emphasize that this is SALES numbers, and NOT profits.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@zamo-zuan I should have been more clear. When I said "the numbers ebay is showing you" it was within the context of the topic------ the numbers ebay is showing to persuade you to use Ads. (for example: Sellers using ads on average see 50% more sales (or whatever). I was talking about people who have not used ads before, and explaining that those numbers ebay is providing (even if accurate) should not persuade them to use or not use Ads. There are more important considerations (as I then detailed).
I was NOT talking about a seller who is already using Ads and is looking at the numbers such as "traffic, sales, etc"
I posted that post because we've all seen people coming here who clearly read the numbers ebay uses to market ads, and said "Hey, that sounds good to me!"....but they never took the time to understand how the ads fee is calculated (so they are shocked to find it is calculated on the total price, not the item price), they are shocked to discover that they are, in fact, working on thin margins and they are losing way too much by choosing the suggested rate etc.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoHere's an example to drive home your point.
Item A BIN Cost (usd)= $50+$9.50 shipping
Promoted @ 13%
Final value fee=13.5%
Sales Tax (avg. USA) 7%
FVF cal. = (50+9.50)7%=$63.67
FVF= $8.60
PL fee= $8.28
Total Fees=$16.88
Fees as a percentage of BIN price= (16.88/50) x 100=33.8% of your item sold price goes to eBay when promoting at 13%, based upon above parameters.
note: it's actually less, as ebay is taking $2.43 worth of fees from your shipping @$9.50, leaving you with $7.07 for shipping costs. Not enough to cover shipping despite discount, unless you charged flat rate with padded shipping.
Nearly 35% of profits could be a shocker for some. Imagine those with 21.6% pl, they're looking at 44.7% of their profits going into eBay's big ol' plump piggy bank.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@cardxcraft Good example.
And this is the sort of thing sellers new to ads should be doing BEFORE they start a campaign. But of course, ebay doesn't drive home that point, as again, there is a conflict of interest between what is best for ebay and what is best for the seller.
What is he advantage for the seller in your scenario? Well, presumably, using PLS found him a buyer sooner than he would otherwise have found a buyer, and so his sales velocity is better. (although there's no way to know for sure that it wouldn't have sold without the ad, or with a lesser rate). The downside is the seller (assuming he did not increase his selling price before using the ad) is that he is taking a hit to his margins. In this case, he'll basically need to sell another of the same item to achieve the total net he would have made if he had sold the item without an ad. Was making the sale at that cost worth it for his business model? Maybe. Maybe not. Each seller has to decide that for himself.
But we know this: ebay has essentially collected twice what it would have collected with a non ad sale of the item. So was it worth it for ebay, to essentially collect the equivalent of two FVF fees from one sale? You betcha.
When PLS started, most sellers could make an ad sale with 2% on the item price....that amount was pretty easy to say: Yeah, spending that amount to move my stuff quicker is worth it. Now, at often much higher percentages and calculated on the total price? It's a lot harder to justify the cost.
Again, each seller has to decide for himself what is worthwhile and what is not. ebay is NOT going to go out of its way to explain why using a higher percentage might be a very poor choice for some sellers.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@zamo-zuan As to the point you are making, I fully agree that for some sellers, refusing to use Ads is simply not an option. The thing is, we are all in different situations, with different inventory types, different competition, and different goals. Two sellers with the same basic merchandise might feel very differently because one uses ebay to make his car payment, and the other uses ebay to pay ALL his bills and to put money into savings. So, that first seller might be content with "x" sales a week, and can get those sales without ads. The other seller might need to have 10x to meet his goals, and , while he can achieve x without ads, he might find it impossible to achieve 10x without ads.
I think it is a mistake to say everyone needs ads to be successful on ebay, but it is also a mistake to say no one needs ads on ebay.
And we know the person who needs ads the most is: ebay. Ads drive their revenue growth. So this means that, yes, ebay is not only going to try to persuade sellers to use ads, but ebay has been busy designing the site it is increasingly difficult for many sellers to achieve their goals without ads. As I've said many times, first party ads on ebay unavoidably create a conflict of interest within ebay, because what is best for sellers and what is best for ebay are at odds.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoSame with topographical postcards category: 36% of items in category promoted, with a high of 16.7%, suggested of 13.9% and a low end of 11.1%.
 
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoWhen I look at my Promoted Listings as a percentage of my total listings and my PLs as percentage of my sales, PL does not seem to get even the same percentage as non-PL.
I still use PL (at the minimum 2%) because when I do have PL I get more Views of everything. And Views are slightly more likely to become sales.
trip98
·1 year ago29%-35% in the main categories I sell in. The suggestions do not pop-up on my laptop, found the % 's on the ebay phone app. Probably, because I suppress pop-ups on my browser.
fbusoni
·1 year agoYeah, I've been seeing this for a few weeks know.
The irony of course is that eBay can publish any old percentage that it wants, and sellers have not a clue whether the figure in question bears any relation to reality.
I'd reckon that the percentage shown varies by seller -- the number is somehow a function of our own selling trends and is intended to stoke the "fear of missing out" which is at a fever pitch around this time of year, I'd imagine.
I suspect that George Orwell would be mighty impressed by eBay's psychological operations.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@fbusoni I think the numbers are probably basically accurate. Frankly, ebay doesn't need to go to the trouble of making up numbers....any amount over , say, 25% is probably enough to give some sellers pause and to set them wondering if they should use Ads (if they aren't already). Of course, some will refuse to use ads no matter what the numbers say, but others will at least test ads (especially if they are unhappy with their current sales velocity).
And of course ebay is providing these numbers for the same reason ebay supplies numbers like : promoted listings see 75% more views (or whatever). This is just straightforward marketing, and it has worked for companies for many years.
As marketing gimmicks go, I think the "suggested" rate is more interesting...the suggested rate is deliberately (and unnecessarily) bookended by two numbers, with the suggested rate being---numerically and graphically--- in the exact middle. There is no reason to show us these other two numbers, except that by positioning the suggested rate in the direct center, the mind tends to see that number as a reasonable middle ground, rather than a rate that is absurdly high. Why not remind us that the minimum is 2%, and remind us of the FVF rate we will also be paying? Those numbers are certainly more relevant and helpful.
But of course, this is a very old marketing trick. For years, retail stores have sold, let's say, toasters this way....the ad shows a low ,medium ,and high priced toaster. The retailer knows some buyers will choose the lowest price (hey, it's only a toaster, I don't need fancy), some will choose the highest (the price tells me this is best quality, and I deserve the best), but most people will choose the middle (I don't need fancy, but that low priced one probably won't last long, I'm smart enough to know the middle priced toaster is the best deal for me). And of course, the retailer already stocked more of the middle priced toaster, and it is also the one with the best margins.
So, sure, this is all marketing. As you've said many time, ads are basically software ebay is trying to sell us, and it's no surprise that they sell ads the way other companies sell toasters.
What intrigued me was the percentage by category....I'm curious to see what percentages other categories are seeing. We hear a lot from P&A sellers, I wonder what the percentage is there? (if it is shown).
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques I saw 70% in Shocks, Struts & Assemblies
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@valueaddedresource Thanks for that info. Given what we've heard from P&A sellers, that's not surprising.
One data point I think would be interesting to see is: what percentage of all sales are made through the Search Results Page, what percentage are made from within a seller's store, what percentage from a buyer's feed, and what percentage are made from the myriad of other pages that contain promoted listings (such as a view item page, and the many other situations where ebay displays Ads.
And another data point: Looking only at sales attributed to PLs (not all sales), what percentage are from the search results page, and what percentage from other pages?
fbusoni
·1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques
I wish that I could share your optimism.
I've read thousands and thousands of discussions on these forums since joining here last April.
There is ONE thread common to almost every single one, and it is NOT how honest and forthright is eBay.
As I have stated numerous times, I love eBay and have done well here. But that is mostly because I have an uncanny ability to see through the most opaque textual obfuscation.
Are the numbers we are being shown "basically accurate"? Your assessment is as good as anyone's.
Uncertainty permeates this platform. Indeed, eBay gives itself extremely wide latitude on this score.
I refer everyone to Section 15 of the eBay user agreement and in particular the following bullet, for which buyers and sellers alike agree to not hold eBay liable:
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@fbusoni Well, I've been on here since the discussion boards were called "chat rooms", 20 plus years, so please don't mistake my opinion for optimism or naiveté. This is just one of those cases where I don't find it necessary to assume ebay is making up numbers based on a seller's business. Why? because the real numbers will serve ebay's purpose just as well, with less effort.
I'll choose to take these numbers at face value, you'll choose not to. it isn't really worth debating, since there is no way to prove either viewpoint. We agree that the numbers (accurate or not) are being shown to persuade sellers to use the ads. That intent is clear, and is hardly surprising.
Frankly, I'm not really concerned with precise accuracy, I'm more interested in the relative numbers by category (which, so far, seem to confirm what many of us would have expected...categories generally regarded as saturated, such as clothing and P&A, appear to have higher levels of Ad adoption.)
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques I'll admit I often have a contrarian point of view on things 😂 , so my thinking on this could be off base, but when I saw the high numbers for clothing and P&A it made me wonder if that might possibly act as a disincentive for some sellers?
Like could seeing that 70% of listings in a category use ads, coupled with very high suggested rates because of that saturation, make it seem not worth even trying to compete with ads?
Due to some of the things @zamo-zuan and others have shared and my own experiences, I know that it isn't the fair playing field one would hope and that choosing not to participate in PL can have consequences for organic performance too so it's not so cut and dry, but for sellers who don't know all that.... I could see a scenario where a 70% saturation and high suggested ad rates might actually convince some to decide not to use PL at all and instead perhaps drop their price since they aren't paying ad fees and try to compete that way organically instead.
While I do think that trying to drive FOMO is the primary objective here, I just wonder if it might have the opposite effect on at least some sellers.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@valueaddedresource Yes, it could act as a disincentive. But if your sales are down and you are looking for a way to increase them, and you have not tried ads, and you see such a high percentage of listings are being advertised, that percentage might seem to explain WHY your sales are down, and offer a solution. So, it could go either way. And, if zamo zuan is correct and ebay is actually limiting sales to individuals, it could be that ebay is happy to convince some more sellers to use it, even if they can't convince every seller to use it. It's a risk they seem to be willing to take.
mamacassidy
·1 year agomamacassidy
·1 year agoI saw this a few days ago when listing in the women's clothing category, and the number they told me was between 64% and 75% depending on the exact category (dresses, suits, outfits, etc). I laughed, because how can you promote over half of a category? Aren't promoted items the special ones that get seen?
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoSeems like the whole ad thing is reaching saturation and will soon accelerate into a bidding war and become untenable. That killed Google ads back in the day. 😆
isaiah53-57
·1 year agoBut that didn't stop them did it?
How did sellers allow this to happen? Did they not see taking part in this malevolent shell game was akin to putting the noose around their own necks? We stopped listing here to show our disapproval of the contemptuous Promoted Listings program as well as the Money Back Guarantee - wonder what would have happened if enough sellers followed suit...
They are ALL IN on this scheme and there is no way back from what I can see...Given loss in users and market share, my guess is this is their end game...
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@mamacassidy I suspect "promoted right now" only means the items are in a promoted listing campaign. Whether they are being shown as promoted or organic in any particular search is a different matter.
mcdougle4248
·1 year agoI see what you describe.
I am working on a listing in the Collectibles>Holiday & Seasonal> Ornaments category. eBay states that 34% of items in this category are promoted right now.
ryry-jj
·1 year agoI'd like to know of those 34% promoted listings, what % of the total sales in that category do they make up
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@ryry-jj
ebay has not provided that detail.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoDo you know what the percentage (roughly) of the games category that are promoted vs non promoted are selling? Would be interesting to know at what percentage (average) those that are promoted are selling at as well.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@chevymontecarlo88Yes, that would be worth knowing. However, I am only passing on what ebay stated in the listing flow. ebay did not add any detail to their "item insight" What I quoted is the "insight" in its entirety.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoMy bad. I was under the impression that it was stating your PL percentages in that category.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
OP1 year ago@chevymontecarlo88 Oh, OK, I probably should have been a little clearer, ebay is saying this is the percentage for the entire site.