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Our first amendment rights and freedom of petition Feedback for Sellers
eBay uses the right to the first amendment freedom of speech for buyers however sellers have no rights. A buyer can post positive negative or neutral feedback regardless of content which can include Negative feedback when the seller follows every rule delivers in a timely manner and the buyer receives a perfect item. He is entitled to an opinion regardless of what the seller does or how he performs. Sellers who do nothing wrong can often get unprotected scathing Feedback, literally for no reason. On the other side of the coin sellers are not permitted to their freedom of speech they are edited to the extent of only being permitted to leave positive feedback. Our first amendment makes it clear that all of us are permitted to free speech. In all fairness eBay is prejudiced against Sellers.
eBay does not allow free speech to sellers they encourage a position of defensiveness when scathing unfair feedback is left. No one needs to see comments back and forth. This becomes an ignorant and childish and waste of time and is in no way helping the seller or others.
Sellers need the right to freedom of speech and the right to say exactly how the buyers act towards them.
There is a rash of buyer Bullying, eBay defends their buyers It has little to do with our right as sellers to free speech, it has to do with money. eBay protects its buyer and gives them these rights to keep them buying.
There is no question that this is a prejudiced policy. As Congress and the Supreme Court try to sort out the first amendment (and this has become a huge issue) eBay chooses to side with one party the buyers and permit those buyers to abuse the sellers.
I am working on a petition to ask Congress to make laws that keep freedom of speech in play. Sellers need to express what buyers have done in the same way buyers get to express what sellers have done. It is against eBay policy for any buyer to request the seller to change his listing. Buyers that ask for discounts, when they do not receive them, use the Feedback system as a retaliation. This marks the reputation of a seller who has no way of telling others what this buyer has done. This needs to be what I am calling a fair fight.
eBay encourages buyer bullying and rather than allow sellers to point out that eBay messaging was used before a transaction took place. He is not permitted to mention this in feedback to the buyer.
as a longtime seller I feel the need to level the playing field. I want my right if freedom of speech as it is clearly unfair to allow buyers to rant without reason. I want that same ability my freedom of speech is violated.
feedback is a one way system that encourages buyers to say whatever they wish. Why don’t sellers have the same rights?
I am working with a group to draft a petition to Congress to explore user prejudice on the internet. Either all of us have the same rights or sites that clearly block those rights should be deeply fined. Our Country seems to going down a rabbit hole allowing prejudice and defamation as a fair game on the internet. However this is a on e sided game developed to hurt one specific group Internet sellers. Anyone who wants to help me with the petition respond I’ll get back periodically.
kh_nipun
·1 year agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
theteamsetguy
·1 year ago@Anonymous ,
The First Amendment of the United States Constitution only prevents the government from restricting speech, not private entities. This means that private companies, like social media sites and private employers, can regulate speech on their platforms and in their workplaces
chapeau-noir
·2 years ago“I do not discount listings everyone gets the same price. Thank you for your interest.â€
Response: "Merely informed buyer that I did not discount listings at this time, and thanked them for their interest. Again, thank you for your business."
And just let it go. That's such a strange neg. Unfortunately, you get all kinds in this business and letting some stuff run off your back is a good idea - at least we have the ability to respond. And this person will not be welcome back. I worked retail for a while back in the 80s and still remember some of the people I had to just grit my teeth and deal with.
Anyway, I have a strange neg like that, too - I teased them a bit in my response and wished them a good holiday season (it was near Christmas).
ETA: Not suggesting you tease this person - it's just that mine was so teasable it was hard not to. And you have such stellar feedback surrounding it, that it makes the neg look even dopier.
carlmarxx
·2 years agoGoing back to old feedback system isn't a good idea , Since eBay has sellers that will abuse it .A long with getting bottom feeder buyers returning abuse back.
annadryl
·2 years agoOne bad feedback out of almost a thousand and it's suddenly a constitutional crisis? Feedback rules haven't changed in years...
hartungcards
·2 years agoYou lost me at, "eBay uses the right to the first amendment freedom of speech..."
broto_64
·2 years agoLong story made short:
Unfortunately we as sellers would be ill advised to fight this, instead I may suggest taking this opportunity to show off customer service skills in the sense that even when everything is going down the drain we don't lose our enthusiasm.
Thus I might reply to their negative as follows:
Thank you so much for your business. I am sorry we could not come to an unilateral agreement that pleases both of us. I am also sorry if my tone offended you as I do not recall being in an ill mood that day, but if I was please I ask you accept my apologies. Thank you again, and have a pleasant day.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoThing is.................... we don't know if the seller did or did not have an attitude that day.
selsa84
·2 years agoOr if the buyer purchased and then tried to get some money back. I've encountered that a few times.
toysaver
·2 years agoYour First Amendment Free Speech Rights are alive and intact as intended. You are free to say exactly what you want to your family, friends, neighbors and the person in line behind you at the Piggly Wiggly. Using a third party to publish your words in public may be slanderous and infringes on that 3rd party (eBay).
itsjustasprain
·2 years agoSlander is verbal; LIBEL is written. Plus the odds of anyone suing over dumb remarks made of them on Ebay are slim to none - and Slim just left town.
toysaver
·2 years agotouché.....
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoThat neg! I had no idea that begging for discounts was part of eBay's 'culture.'
It's so silly that it doesn't even deserve a rant, just a shake of the head or maybe a response along the lines of "Thank you for your business - cheers"
robbie31415
·2 years agoI'd try and get them to open a return so I could offer them a partial refund, informing them that I do all my refunds inside returns that they can accept or deny. Then offer $1 dollar discount. If they deny it, have to be willing to accept it back. If it isn't in same condition then I give less refund back, but the feedback would most likely be removed.
That person needs to go back to Mercari.
Mercari please reverse your decision on charging the buyer the fees. I don't want your haggle buyers here.
monroe67
·2 years ago"eBay uses the right to the first amendment freedom of speech for buyers however sellers have no rights."
Interesting.
"Our first amendment makes it clear that all of us are permitted to free speech."
True and correct. And what that means in the real world is that you cannot be thrown into jail for saying what you think.
The Government cannot stop you from saying what you think. The Government cannot restrict your freedoms by imprisoning you for saying what you think.
"eBay does not allow free speech to sellers they encourage a position of defensiveness when scathing unfair feedback is left. No one needs to see comments back and forth. This becomes an ignorant and childish and waste of time and is in no way helping the seller or others." Bingo !!!
jerseyboymusic
·2 years ago@Anonymous
What good is it to leave negative feedback for a buyer? They order, they pay, you send it. If they don't like the item, they return.
What feedback would I leave for a buyer besides "Paid quickly, thanks for your order"? On my selling account, I have immediate payment required, so I don't even really leave buyer feedback anymore
The buyer seemed to have liked everything about the transaction except for "your tone" so not really sure what the real issue is
an-57470
OP2 years agoThe real issue is that buyers request things not part of your listing If you read eBay policy it is against policy to ask for anything not in the listing which clearly includes bullying the seller to reduce a price. When you refuse to change your listing and refuse to discount they leave NEGATIVE feedback. The FEEDBACK is deliberate and harmful as the seller does all the right things he delivers the goods in a timely manner and the buyer gets the item only he must pay the price the seller asks. These buyers are Bullying sellers and living Negative feedback for not discounting their items. So buyer clearly violates eBay policy which states the following.
"
What should I do if I think a buyer is making an unreasonable demand?
You're not required to agree to any extras or changes from the terms of your listing. If a buyer is making demands that are not a part of your original listing, you will be protected from negative feedback and defects when you either deliver the item purchased by the buyer according to the original terms of your listing, or cancel the transaction.
To help us identify buyers who are engaging in unacceptable buying behaviors, please report the abusive behavior.
We encourage you to communicate politely and professionally with the buyer.
Clearly, once a buyer sends a message through eBay messaging asking for a change in price The seller does not have to agree to any change in his listing.. If that buyer then gives NEGATIVE FEEDBACK as a result of his unacceptable buying behavior eBay promises to remove Negative feedback once the item is delivered or if the transaction is canceled.
The problem is eBay uses a bot to determine the validity of the FEEDBACK making this clearly published promise Un-enforceable This also encourages buyers to threaten or give Negative feedback just because they can This of course is in response to the refusal to change the terms.
It is a case where buyers get free speech and sellers get reamed.
janet9988
·2 years agoREPORT that buyer for making demands.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoWhile I agree that it's upsetting to receive a neg (deserved or not) especially when an item is "as described," but ebay allows buyers to post their opinion of the entire transaction and from your buyer's POV, your attitude did not strike him as accommodating and he's allowed to express his opinion. (And based on the tone of your OP, I infer that you were probably somewhat argumentative.)
With that said, I doubt that ebay would remove the feedback because there's nothing in it that would be a violation of policy.
adamcartwright
·2 years ago@Anonymous The FB makes the buyer sound silly. But you can still respond with a professional and measured reply, explaining that you declined to negotiate because the listing was not set up to accept best offers. Your reply to negative/neutral feedback can be a great marketing tool.
movieman630
·2 years agoWhile I admire your fire for the subject of "free speech" and comparison to the platform's FB rules to the Constitutional right, in practicality though there is no correlation because ebay is a company of which your participation is entirely voluntary. Like a private club, they make their own rules as far as conduct.
That being said, I do agree there is an imbalance and in recent months it seems something has changed that makes it easier for buyers to leave negative FB. As I have NEVER in all my 20 years of ebaying had as many negatives left for me as I have in the last few months. And it's nothing I've changed about my way of doing business. I'm the same, my products are the same, my policies are the same. In fact, I've been recently giving refunds where I wouldn't in the past, also sending replacement orders when the USPS marked an item "delivered" but the buyer claimed they did not get it. In short... I've been nicer to the buyer.
I don't know what they did but it's almost as if they've been encouraging Negative FB. And our recourse is nill. We can leave a reply or ask for a revision or removal which now is almost always denied when in the recent past it may have been granted.
Ebay IS it's sellers. They're failing to protect our reputations from abusive buyers and that's a shame.
Though the flip side to this whole lopsided FB policy is that it really doesn't matter. It's kind of a childish outdated feature anymore. Nobody really cares. I never read a seller's FB before buying... In fact the only time I read FB is when I read the FB of a buyer who leaves me a negative. The last guy is a serial Negative offender. He's left so many negative FB's for sellers his "left for" section looks like a string of Christmas lights.
Feedback has become extremely Jejune. It's an antiquated feature that's lost all it's usefulness. In my opinion FB should go the way of the news media "comment section".
adamcartwright
·2 years agoNicely written -- 100% agree.
eburtonlab
·2 years agoFeedback has become extremely Jejune. It's an antiquated feature that's lost all it's usefulness. In my opinion FB should go the way of the news media "comment section".
Seller feedback is still extremely useful for buyers deciding whether or not to make a purchase from a particular seller. When examined properly, seller feedback can tell a story about what kind of seller the buyer is dealing with.
While any seller can get an undeserved negative from a disgruntled buyer, buyers can readily note patterns of feedback problems, or else spot a lack of feedback for selling similar items and avoid a lot of potential pitfalls and scams.
Buyer feedback, on the other hand, serves no such purpose. With the exception of offers, sellers can not choose to initiate transactions with specific buyers.
movieman630
·2 years agoSounds like it was from ebay's handbook. The validity of such an argument is debatable.
an-57470
OP2 years agoWhat should I do if I think a buyer is making an unreasonable demand?
You're not required to agree to any extras or changes from the terms of your listing. If a buyer is making demands that are not a part of your original listing, you will be protected from negative feedback and defects when you either deliver the item purchased by the buyer according to the original terms of your listing, or cancel the transaction.
To help us identify buyers who are engaging in unacceptable buying behaviors, please report the abusive behavior.
We encourage you to communicate politely and professionally with the buyer.
Clearly, once a buyer sends a message through eBay messaging asking for a change in price The seller does not have to agree to any change in his listing.. If that buyer then gives NEGATIVE FEEDBACK as a result of his unacceptable buying behavior eBay promises to remove Negative feedback once the item is delivered or if the transaction is canceled.
The problem is eBay uses a bot to determine the validity of the FEEDBACK making this clearly published promise Un-enforceable This also encourages buyers to threaten or give Negative feedback just because they can This of course is in response to the refusal to change the terms.
It is a case where buyers get free speech and sellers get reamed.
theteamsetguy
·2 years ago@Anonymous ,
I wouldn’t consider the comments left by the buyer a reaming. The buyer is just expressing their opinion which is what feedback is for.
As a seller you should take the feedback as learning lesson. No one is perfect and one negative feedback is going do anything in my opinion.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"Our first amendment rights"
You certainly have Ebay confused with the U.S. government. Ebay owns this site, and they call the shots.
celestw41
·1 year agoAnd who exactly owns Ebay? many share holders do. Why do you think Ebay now is raising it rates and charges certain taxes. Taxes pertaining to individuals country or state of residence. Same thing pertains to certain countries rights of individuals. No contract is truly fool proof. Ebay is on it way to being banned or outlawed, if they do not change their misconduct of their own policies. You bullying others because you don't really understand what they are posting and don't know what you are talking about it part of the problem that Ebay is accused of. Ebay needs to send you a warning for violating it's no bullying or rude behavior.
bonjourami
·1 year ago"And who exactly owns Ebay? many share holders do. Why do you think Ebay now is raising it rates and charges certain taxes. Taxes pertaining to individuals country or state of residence. Same thing pertains to certain countries rights of individuals. No contract is truly fool proof. Ebay is on it way to being banned or outlawed, if they do not change their misconduct of their own policies. You bullying others because you don't really understand what they are posting and don't know what you are talking about it part of the problem that Ebay is accused of. Ebay needs to send you a warning for violating it's no bullying or rude behavior."
Im sorry for you, I really am, you remain confused.Ebay is not 'charging taxes', those are state taxes that Ebay is required to collect from the buyer and remit to the proper states.Its the law.No different than what Etsy, Amazon, Poshmark and all the other sites have to do.And Ebay hasnt 'raised its rates' for quite a while.
If you sell to buyers in the US, some jurisdictions may require you to collect applicable Internet Sales Tax on your transactions. As of July 1, 2021 a total of 46 jurisdictions require the collection of sales tax. In such cases, eBay collects and remits Internet Sales Tax on your behalf.
janet9988
·2 years agoThe First Amendment does not apply to you on Ebay's site. Ebay is not the government.
Ebay has the right to design their site how they see fit.
chariot_badges
·2 years agoRight. Like it or not, this is Ebay's house.
House rules - rule.
Same in OP's house too. If I'm a guest in his home he has every right to say, "Whoa, whoa, we don't talk like that here. You can't use that kind of language here." At that point I have two choices ... comply or go home.
Freedom is SO messy, isn't it?
celestw41
·1 year agoUntil Ebay gets banned. Ebay is obligated to adhere to the laws of the individuals who use their site. But it is hard to enforce. Same obligation that they must file the right tax form for those who use their site. Just like laws, taxes vary by country.
caldreamer
·2 years agoYou can respond to customer's negative feedback and make them look like a foolish by responding to them in an "overly polite manner" (this will show that "they" are the problem). All your feedback from other customer's was very good so speaks to your positive customer interaction.
theteamsetguy
·2 years ago@Anonymous ,
In case you are not aware the first amendment only applies to the government limiting free speech.
The First Amendment does not prohibit private individuals, companies and employers from restricting speech.
You must have forgotten this or didn't pay attention when you were in civics class.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoGood luck with all that.
I'm guessing this rant is brought on by the negative feedback your buyer left you.
It seems the buyer didn't like your tone in the response to their message.
an-57470
OP2 years agoYes my response was simple “ I do not discount listings everyone gets the same price. Thank you for your interest.â€
I do not see a tone but this buyer does this to many sellers it is certainly abusive and has nothing to do with tone. Buyers abuse the system regularly but sellers can not leave feedback for buyers It is a very unfair system one way system where only one side is allowed to post abusive comments on the others feedback.
it is not worth responding to. He used foul language on his original comment and as eBay refused to remove that I asked for a revision.