Open letter to the Head of Refunds Dispute Divisions & eBay CEO
Open letter to the Head of Refunds Dispute Divisions & eBay CEO
Re Order: 03-14288-17535
eBay automatically issued a refund to one of my buyers and told the buyer they could keep the item. I NEVER SELECTED THIS OPTION when I set up my Seller Hub! The only thing that I set up was to allow a return of an item within 30 days. Unknown to me at the time I said I would allow returns within 30 days, eBay's Refund Preferences setting AUTOMATICALLY DEFAULTED to issuing a refund to a buyer for any issue concerning the item, as well as, an AUTOMATIC DEFAULT setting to tell the buyer they could keep the item. In a very recent discussion with an eBay Customer Service representative, the eBay representative said that these automatic settings were initiated because of something I, the seller, must have set. I ONLY said that refunds were allowed within 30 days BUT I NEVER SELECTED THE AUTOMATIC OPTION to return payment WITHOUT QUESTION. eBay told me, the seller had reported the item as damaged. eBay then told the buyer to keep the item - not to return it! In fact, when I reached out to the buyer, she told me that she never said the item or packaging was damaged. The buyer's only issue was that she found an infinitesimal spot on the collar of the sweater shell. eBay took that as "damage" and AUTOMATICALLY issued a refund and told the buyer to keep the item. The buyer NEVER even reached out to me - PERIOD! In my telephone conversation with the eBay Customer Service representative, I stated: "WHAT PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD AGREE TO SUCH A REFUND PREFERENCE SETTING?! Why this SETTING even exists is UNBELIEVABLE! In fact, the eBay representative had to guide me through the myriad of eBay settings to turn the automatic settings OFF – SINCE I DID NOT KNOW WHERE TO LOCATE THESE SETTINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
THIS IS AN EBAY SOFTWARE ISSUE NOT A SELLER SETTING ISSUE. I AM APPEALING THE FINAL DECISION BECAUSE EBAY NEVER SOUGHT MY INPUT IN THE FIRST PLACE BEFORE AUTOMATICALLY ISSUING A REFUND AND TELLING THE BUYER SHE COULD KEEP THE ITEM!!! I AM STILL APPEALING THE FINAL DECISION BECAUSE THIS WHOLE TRANSACTION WAS INAPPROPRIATE. Because the eBay's Refund Preference setting was automatically defaulted to refunding the buyer and telling the buyer she could keep the item, EBAY SHOULD REIMBURSE ME!!! It is not like eBay doesn't make a ton of money on a daily basis.
PLEASE SEND THIS COMPLAINT UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO SOMEONE WHO CAN ACTUALLY MAKE THE DECISION TO REIMBURSE ME FOR THIS TRANSACTION! Show some consideration PLEASE!
christworks
·6 months agoFor what it's worth, I checked the settings @mamacassidy provided. I knew you could set up auto-returns, but I've never done it. I want to say that feature came about a year or so ago?
I had what appeared to be two default preferences. The "priority" preference was set for eBay to fully refund the buyer for any reason and without the need to return the item. The toggle button for both preferences was turned off.
I did not set up either of those preferences. This appears to be something eBay set up (at least for some sellers). I was glad to see the toggle buttons were turned off. I deleted both preferences to ensure the toggle button does not actually turn on.
Given my findings, I think folks have been too hard on @durbinnd regarding this issue. Everybody misses a spot or messes up sometimes in terms of item descriptions. That is not even the issue. This seller accepts returns. They are not opposed to taking returns.
Given I never set up my return settings, I now know firsthand it is possible to have these setttings set up and not know it. My toggle buttons were turned off. I can believe the seller may have gotten into those settings and accidently turned them on. I also can equally believe they were turned on by eBay, either directly or, more likely, during some type of glitch or update they ran. We all know wonky things often happen when they go to mess with something.
To the OP - I'm sorry this happened. You are not going to be able to get your money back, and probably not your item. Your buyer is innocent in all of this. First, buyers do not have to send you a message if there is an issue. eBay provides them a return button for a reason and, as you know, it is your responsibility to respond to that. I beileve you are being honest about what happened. Only you know whether the toggle buttons were turned on by you or whether it was an eBay hiccup that you didn't know about. Either way, go to Account Settings > Selling Preferences>Return Preferences>Return Request Preferences.
From there you will see a list of preferences. On each preference, click the three dots under the Actions column. One of the options that pops up is to delete, so hit that if you want to delete them. If you want to keep them, but not use them, make sure the toggle button is not blue.
The feedback you left for your buyer is out-of-line. You don't even accuse them of doing anyting wrong. Your beef is with eBay, so why embarss your buyer? They did what eBay told them to do. That's not their fault. I also don't know what you mean by "Karma, look it up." Why would you say that to your buyer? To me, that is threatening and the buyer should report you for it.
soh.maryl
·6 months agoThe FB you've left for your buyers sounds like you're chiding them for not leaving FB and could leave an unpleasant impression. Did you know that eBay now will leave a canned positive FB for sellers if buyers have not left it after 10 days, proving the it appears to have been a good experience?
Will refrain from addressing the rest of your original message. Have already offered my opinion about that.
thelongball
·6 months agoJust read your feedback left for others and it probably scares away a lot of buyers. You might want to review what you're saying to people as leaving feedback isn't mandatory. That's why eBay now gives us a positive when no feedback is left after a sale. Feedback for a buyer should be left after they pay a seller as they have lived up to their end of things at that point and the rest falls onto the seller's shoulders. Giving them a dig for not leaving feedback can give a bad impression about a seller. If it does tick someone off, You might not like the feedback they give you then.
stephenmorgan
·6 months agoHave you ever read the User Agreement?
Go to Section 19 and read "Informal Dispute Resolution". There is a Form, eMail address and a Street Address provided that you can send your complaint to.
I do not know if you would get a different answer or not. But you may get an answer from a human instead of a computer generated answer that says Final Decision.
tobaccocardyahoo
·6 months ago@durbinnd
Let me summarize why you earned the Ebay results you have seen,
You are expected to resolve your customer service issues in accordance with Federal and State Consumer Protection laws, and Ebay policy.
You had an item not as described dispute, that you failed to resolve. Whether it was because the customer was a thief, an idiot or mistaken, you needed to take an action which took into account the buyer's rights and minimized your loss. Instead you decided the buyer was wrong and you maximized your loss.
This was not a seller settings issue. This was your failure to understand your contract with Ebay, the buyer's rights and Ebay's policies which you agreed to under that contract.
You can stamp your feet all you want and decide the buyer was wrong, and Ebay was wrong, and you were right but you are poorer now than if you behaved differently.
caldreamer
·6 months agoSellers are required to sign EBAY User Agreement that allows EBAY to "make decisions on your behalf".
Customers do NOT have to contact the Seller before making a complaint or opening a "case" against you. Customers also have the option of contacting EBAY directly with their complaints. EBAY decided to give the customer "immediate refund" (and tell customer to discard damaged item).
You have to understand if customer opens "not as described/damaged" case against you, EBAY will force you to refund (purchase price + shipping BOTH ways). So even if you wanted customer to return "damaged item" (you would have to pay shipping, might cost more than "your cost" for this item).
Selling online is a gamble (you lose some, you win some).
gloryglorygifts
·6 months agoYou don't have to set a "preference", it is in the ebay policy. Customer opens a case, claims the item is damaged, ebay tells them to keep it and refunds them. It's not like an item not received where the money would come out of ebay's pocket. As a seller, even a miniscule spot should have been mentioned in the listing so that's on you.
Sorry. It's hard to learn things the hard way. Frankly, I'm shocked you got a live agent to walk you through anything. That's just wow!
inhawaii
·6 months agoThe highest up my chain of command is my older brother, Doug.
spreadlovelikefire
·6 months agoDoes he answer to Doug, or Douglas? Asking for a friend.
dryophelia
·6 months ago@durbinnd
The chance of eBay Corporate seeing this post is as likely as the McDonalds guy wolfing down ‘the product’.
stainlessenginecovers
·6 months ago@durbinnd The Hamburgler would've eaten it, no problem. Bring Back Ronald!! (and the gang)
mamacassidy
·6 months agoOk, I looked all over, and I found a section under Account Settings called Return Preferences.
On my account, in order for the situation you describe to happen, I'd have to Create a New Preference and then click on multiple different places to choose what I want and to activate it.
I don't know how or why ebay would automatically create/ activate a new preference for a seller, but if you say they did, then I'll take your word for it.
As far as blaming the buyer, that's totally out of line.
albertabrightalberta
·6 months agoI don't take the OP's word for it. I think @durbinnd clicked to "issue refund" and didn't request a return first. Or they ignored the return request and ebay assumed the OP didn't want a return and allowed the buyer to keep the item, get the refund as well as the ding that went onto the seller's account for not resolving the case themselves.
mtgraves7984
·6 months agoOr they ignored the return request and ebay assumed the OP didn't want a return and allowed the buyer to keep the item, get the refund as well as the ding that went onto the seller's account for not resolving the case themselves.
@albertabrightalberta
^^^ I concur. Although @durbinnd swears that wasn't done. When will the OP be able to see a ding, if imposed? The 20th?
jbbowers12012
·6 months agoReally Really confused by this. Did the buyer actually file a claim & did our OP respond within the time limit or let it go to eBay? Love reading this community board as it is a GREAT learning tool. But it is sometimes hard to follow.
kensgiftshop
·6 months agoSounds like the buyer contacted CS and CS opened the INAD.
Since their return policy was set to automatically refund without returning, the buyer was automatically refunded.
jbbowers12012
·6 months agoOh Boy! Self-inflicted then?
kensgiftshop
·6 months agoYa, according to what the OP is saying.
stephenmorgan
·6 months agoIf account was automatically set up to refund does that mean eBay would refund their fees to the seller?
If it was a forced refund then eBay would keep their fees?
@durbinnd Did eBay refund their Fees or did they refund the buyer and keep the Fees?
kensgiftshop
·6 months agoIf it was set to automatically refund, I think it would be like any other INAD and the fees would be refunded.
reallynicestamps
·6 months agoDid you tell the buyer in the Claim to return the unwanted item for refund?
Did you send the buyer a Return Shipping Label (RSL)?
If you wanted to talk about it with the buyer, fine, but unless you also sent the RSL , you lost the case.
If you sent the RSL, and the buyer, after discussing it with you, decided to keep the item, eventually your cost for the RSL would be refunded to you.
Those few buyers who read feedback, read Feedback Left for Others.
broto_64
·6 months agoNo.
No way, I don't even know if I could do this for myself so why would I even dream of doing this for some complete stranger who most likely failed to abide by some part of the process, which I can't think of it but I'm guessing you at least low-key fought the buyer on the return.
I have a lot more information but I'll keep it short, chances are you won't be coming back to read these replies.
durbinnd
OP6 months agoI was finally able to solicit a response from the buyer but only after repeated requests for a response. eBay automatically sent the refund and told the buyer to keep the item. The buyer never reached out to me - PERIOD. The reason for the refund was an automatic setting by the eBay software under Refund/Return Preferences. I NEVER set the Refund/Return Preferences to automatically send a refund and tell the buyer to keep the item. Who in their right mind would?!?!?!
kensgiftshop
·6 months agoYou might not have turned the option on, but you failed to check to see if it was turned on or not.
When you set up a listing, you have to check everything before submitting
soh.maryl
·6 months agoThere is absolutely no eBay requirement that a buyer who has had an unsatisfactory experience with a seller has to contact that seller. Your misunderstanding of how the MBG works, or what the buyer is required to do is wrong. Wrong.
broto_64
·6 months agoThe only place to set such a setting would be here:
https://www.ebay.com/rtn/Return/SellerRules
Under Return request preferences > Manage
Also under Business Policies > Returns
https://www.ebay.com/bp/manage
I however side with those saying likely a return timed out as you forgot to issue a label or approve the return or something along those lines.
You may wish to read up on the MBG:
https://pages.ebay.com/buyer-protection/m-app-ebp.html
mtgraves7984
·6 months agoUnknown to me at the time I said I would allow returns within 30 days, eBay's Refund Preferences setting AUTOMATICALLY DEFAULTED to issuing a refund to a buyer for any issue concerning the item, as well as, an AUTOMATIC DEFAULT setting to tell the buyer they could keep the item.
@durbinnd
Are you confusing eBay's "Refund Preferences settings" with what the MBG allows after 3 days of your non-response to a Return request? The buyer doesn't have to contact you... all they have to do is open a claim.
durbinnd
OP6 months agoThe buyer NEVER contacted me directly! And , No, I am not confusing eBay's "Refund Preference settings".
mamacassidy
·6 months ago@durbinnd
I, like you, didn't even know those settings existed!
Can you tell me where they are? I want to double-check mine!
albertabrightalberta
·6 months ago@durbinnd
That feedback you left for the buyer is a violation of ebay policy and if the buyer reports it, it'll be removed and you'll also be stuck with a feedback policy violation.
Buyers can only receive positive feedback and sellers cannot leave negative with the positive green dot.
Your buyer did nothing wrong. YOU are the one who made the mistake by issuing a refund before getting the item back! Own your error and learn from it.
durbinnd
OP6 months agoI did NOT issue the refund. eBay did. In fact, eBay handled the refund and told the buyer to keep the item. The buyer never reached out to me - PERIOD. The reason for the refund was an automatic setting by the eBay software under Refund/Return Preferences. I NEVER set the Refund/Return Preferences to automatically send a refund and tell the buyer to keep the item. Who in their right mind would?!?!?!
kensgiftshop
·6 months agoOn cheaper items, a lot of sellers will just refund and not have to pay return shipping..
toomuchstuffagain35
·6 months agoThe buyer has no obligation to "reach out" to you.
All they have to do is file a claim. If you don't respond to the claim then ebay WlLL 'step in' and refund the buyer and not require a return.
soh.maryl
·6 months agoIt seems like you probably misunderstood eBay's Money Back Guarantee for buyers.
When/if a buyer opens a case, the seller has three days to respond.
If he doesn't respond, eBay refunds the buyer and tells the buyer to keep the item.
Any idea you might have about what you, the seller, would allow, or how this should work has no bearing on what eBay actually does.
durbinnd
OP6 months agoI stand by my feedback. The buyer has proven her lack of ethics.
kensgiftshop
·6 months agoThe buyer did nothing wrong.
They should report the feedback and you'd be hit with a policy violation.
itsjustasprain
·6 months agoPro tip: stop slanging your buyers with sarcastic comments about their evident failure to leave feedback for you first - such as 'Even silence is so articulate at times.' and similar. You are doing that over and over. It is only a matter of time before a buyer who had chosen to remain silent over some slight problem with their purchase will get offended at those comments and come back at you with both barrels - as if somehow choosing to withhold feedback was an ethical 'lack' instead of a bit of forgiveness that you squandered.
jonathanbrightlight
·6 months agoI don’t think I’ve ever seen a poster come here with a long rant like this and end up being on the right side in whatever they were complaining about.
stainlessenginecovers
·6 months ago@durbinnd If you spent 1/10th of the amount of time it took you to write that by reading the 'seller/return' policies of using this site as well as what 'electronic payments' and 'chargebacks' mean to someone selling using such, you would have saved what appeared to be a few hours of your life... but even more importantly, be much smarter for it.
redmodelt
·6 months agoNo one from eBay will see this post, these are user forums, other buyers and sellers. We can't send this post up the chain of command. No one here can see what is going on with your account or any of the how's and why's of what transpired.
You could try using the Help/Contact and request a call back.
durbinnd
OP6 months agoOk, I see now that my open letter was pointless. eBay's vast layers of instructions and settings would require fulltime on my part and I doubt that I would still understand it all. I've already tried speaking with the Support people and was told it was a setting I must have set and that eBay's decision was final and there was not further appeal that could be made. I DID not.
12345jamesstamps
·6 months agoIf there is an open claim for a refund...you respond of course.
Send a return label and then refund or just refund.
You do nothing within the 'time frame',,,,time frame is important on this.
Doing an appeal doesn't mean to wait on refunding the buyer.
Buyer gets refund and keeps item.
You did something wrong along the way.
And customer service reps can't do anything other than chit-chat.
albertabrightalberta
·6 months agoIt sounds like the buyer opened a NAD (not as described) return request because of the spot that wasn't disclosed.
When the claim was opened, you had 3 days to respond to the claim for which you had 2 options:
1. Accept the return by providing a prepaid (from your funds) return shipping label and issuing a full refund upon receipt of the return
or
2. Issue a refund allowing the buyer to keep the item
It sounds like you either didn't respond to the claim, thus allowing ebay to step in and let the buyer keep the item or you did respond by issuing the refund. (Which of these is what happened?)
If you issued the refund when you got the request, that allowed the buyer to keep the item without returning it.
albertabrightalberta
·6 months agoThere's a "Head of Refunds Dispute Divisions?"
soh.maryl
·6 months agoWho knew, right? Now there's a job I would have applied for.