OMG the Fees...
Never started a discussion before but just had to comment because... I just sold something for the first time in awhile and I can not believe the fees. They're so insulting that it just made me laugh out loud. 15% for a do it all yourself website? It's kind of sad that people can't find a better way to come together without this.
63 comments
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoNever understood this complaint of 'fees' when they are
a.) transparent and easily seen/researched BEFORE listing
b.) only paid AFTER you've made a sale, not BEFORE like....
Opening a REAL store (B&M) and put out $30,000 in lease fees, shelving/gondolas, register area, inventory...
Or...advertise in a NewsPaper- pay $100 UP FRONT for a small ad with NO guarantee of selling anything.
Amazing!
pickapaper
·2 years agoI just hope that the transaction goes well and that a NAD doesn't happen or a CC chargeback doesn't occur three or four months down the line or any one of the other things that can go south on a transaction like this.
oszika
·2 years agoMy selling costs add up to 1/3 of the total sales for a while. The choices are: deal with it or quit. I've learned, using the old fashion business model "buy low, sell high" always work. I think eBay is still the most reasonable market place.
richard1rst
·2 years agoI hate to rain on the OP’s parade and contrary to all those saying 13.25% I am only paying 11.99% on the sales and shipping with a teensy weensy extra for the FVF on sales tax making my total FVF about 12.15%. And there are some categories that charge even less.
And to paraphrase the Smothers Brothers “If you get an outfit you can be 11.99% tooâ€.
BTW
I also maintain my own personal "do it all yourself" website (which I built and coded myself). Costs me about $150.00 for registration and server usage. I do have to pay for the credit card processing at about 3% of the total sale (yes, including shipping and tax).
As others have mentioned, it is hard to be sympathetic with someone who didn't take the time to learn the rules AND THE COSTS before listing.
"Oh boy, this looks easy - I'll just jump in with both feet" said Tom, lamely.
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoWow - Sir Richards Castle Horns are blowing hard today - Lets see whats really happening here - I can only assume that you have a Premium Store Subscription in which the selling fees are 12.35% of the ENTIRE TRANSACTION - The cost of that store is either $60 or $75 a month depending - Looks like you may also have to pay insertion fees on 10% of your items monthly.
My guess is with that many listings, you are also Promoting to some degree, lets say bare minimum of another 2% of the ENTIRE SALE - But wait...Maybe not... considering you only have 43 feedback in the last month with over 11000 items listed - which by the way is about a 1% monthly sell through rate - And given the amount of time and money it must take just to maintain and store 11000 items? If you Sir Richard are an ebay success story, I'll burn my stock before I waste the time selling here - especially considering, in my most humble opinion, the exorbitant costs and the exploitive and uncaring company demeanor...
Isnt it ironic this longtime seller doesnt seem to know how much he/she is REALLY paying in fees...
richard1rst
·2 years agoWell, I ignored your last 2 inaccurate cheap shots but since I seem to be your favorite whipping boy I will deign to respond - this one time.
Point by point.
I can only assume that you have a Premium Store Subscription
WRONG - Anchor Store.
in which the selling fees are 12.35%
WRONG - fees are 13.25% from which I get a 10% TRS+ discount netting it out to 11.99
of the ENTIRE TRANSACTION
SO? I made the point that the 11.99 was on “sales and shipping†and then added that I pay a little more for the sales tax FVF. In other words your CAPITALIZATION simply shows you did not read my post accurately.
The cost of that store is either $60 or $75 a month depending
WRONG - $299.95 per month offset by $50 per month in free shipping supplies that I would otherwise have to buy elsewhere. But to me that is no different than the rent you pay at a B&M store. It has no effect on the FVF rate which was the OP’s concern.
Looks like you may also have to pay insertion fees on 10% of your items monthly.
WRONG - I get 100,000 free listing per month. I NEVER pay insertion fees.
My guess is with that many listings, you are also Promoting to some degree,
WRONG - I never pay any promoted listing fees. Not to eBay and not to Google.
considering you only have 43 feedback in the last month
IRRELEVANT - in your last 2 rants other posters pointed out that feedback is a lousy indicator of actual sales. Fewer and fewer buyers leave it these days. For example you have only had 961 feedback out of 2400 items sold. And only 5 feedback this entire year.
with over 11000 items listed - which by the way is about a 1% monthly sell through rate
WRONG - since you are basing that on an irrelevant feedback count. And you are obviously unaware of sales made through other venues and my own personal web site. My sell through rate and sales figures are much higher than that (and quite frankly none of your business).
And given the amount of time and money it must take just to maintain and store 11000 items?
SEVERAL misconceptions here. It takes no time to store an them. It’s not like they are a pet that needs to be feed daily. They just sit there obediently waiting for me to come and get them. I work out of a large house with plenty of internal storage room and backyard sheds. And 11,000 listings is not the same as 11,000 items. And since I am working out of my house I get a tax break that further offsets my eBay costs.
the exorbitant costs
WRONG compared to the costs of running a B&M store which I did for many years
exploitive(sic) and uncaring company demeanor...
WRONG - eBay is not your mother. It is not their job to “look out†for you. That is YOUR job.
Isnt it ironic this longtime seller doesnt seem to know how much he/she is REALLY paying in fees...
WRONG - I get a monthly statement from eBay. I have a degree in accounting. I know EXACTLY what I am paying in fees.
Constantly repeating the same inaccurate and irrelevant points says more about you than it does about me.
Your entire rant is based on false assumptions. Do you by chance remember the old joke from “The Odd Couple†where Felix asks Oscar - “do know what happens when you assume? ..................................â€
TATA
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoisaiah53-57
·2 years agoThanks for correcting me on a number of my assumptions - Problem is, I see your situation in a so much more desperate light now -
So you brag that you are only paying 11.99%(Though Im sure its a bit more), yet you fail to add the $300 a month store subscription into the sales you had last month - 43 of which had feedback, so when I say you have a 1% monthly sell through rate?...thats already giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming 115 total sales last month - But even if you had 150 sales last month, that is still only about a 1.4% sell through rate - and you had to pay a $300 store fee, so add $2 to each sale for that - That should make your selling fee percentage go up another 15% per sale on those cheap pins you sell for $15 a piece - Yeahhhh your're rockin it alright...
And what the H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks does what you are selling elsewhere have to do with your sales on ebay??? - Smoke a Mirror is all I see from you and most other ebay apologists...
wastingtime101
·2 years agoAnchor store is 12.35% in most categories (link).
13.25% is for non-store accounts and starter stores (link).
eBay shipping supply coupon is $0 for Starter, $25 for Basic, $50 for Premium and $150 for Anchor & Enterprise. (link)
richard1rst
·2 years agoThank you for the corrections. That makes my FVF even better at 11.12% (12.35% less 10% TRS+)
The $50 per month I stated was based on accounting principles. The $150 I get is amortized over a 3 month period to be the equivalent of $50.00 per month.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoAh yes, I see now where you said $50 per month, not per quarter. ðŸ‘
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoI hear ya @mfujii2691 And dont forget that's 15% of the ENTIRE SALE you are talking about including shipping and sales tax - Aaaaand then they want you to pay another 15% of the ENTIRE SALE using promoted listings! In my book thats waaaaay past the point of insulting - its downright reprehensible.
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoYes, they are thieves.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoI think the OP's 'do it yourself' means eBay expects sellers to take their own photos and write their own descriptions (maybe even find their own products!) rather than 'do it yourself' meaning free-standing website. I admit, eBay does seem a bit top-heavy when it comes to over-paid Suits, which seems to be the case with most corps, yet that's balanced by world-wide exposure and name recognition.
Most selling platforms where anything actually sells have fees more or less on par.
iamalwaysright
·2 years agoJust wait when you find out you can't leave buyers any bad feedback.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoThat train left the station back in 2002.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoI just sold something for the first time in awhile and I can not believe the fees
In 2012, my total fees were 30 cents plus 12.9% of the price + shipping (15.9% for media).
In 2023, my total fees are 30 cents plus 13.25% of the price + shipping + sales tax (same for media).
15% for a do it all yourself website?
You are free to use Facebook or Craigslist or create your own website. But this site attracts 125 million active buyers per year, and my guess is that you are not doing that yourself. 😄
audra13
·2 years agoSomething is also going on with the Ebay contracted shipping rates. Shipped something today, same zone, only a few counties over from me and it was almost $6 Ground Advantage and not even a pound. I've never shipped ANYTHING within my state under a pound for almost $6. I just raised all my shipping rates on my listings, and no longer offering FREE shipping. I don't even know how people can offer free shipping on an item that costs more to ship than the item itself.
As far as the fees, they are better than some other sites. Poshmark is 20% or $2.95 for any sale under $15, of course that includes Priority Mail shipping, so it may actually work out better because they handle all problems between seller and buyer.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoWhat do you think is going on @audra13 ? If you paid $5.85 that's an accurate online discounted rate for Ground Adv packages 13-15.99 oz headed to zone 1. That's been the rate since Jan 2023, almost a full year. Rates will be going up in Jan 2024 as they do every year, but for now, these are the commercial (online) Ground Adv rates for packages under a pound:
https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/notice123.htm#_c451
Weight Zone 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
monica-sells
·2 years agoJust FYI....15% is pretty good, especially when you are lucky enough to get this included.....
I think you are aware of how much it 'might' cost to get on page 1 for your item on Google....
Something you probably couldn't afford without the assist from ebay......
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoThis is actually the only good point I've seen.
redlinear
·2 years agoI don't think the fees are out of line (comparatively).
Been here a LONG time and the fees don't really bother me. It's just the price ya pay.
When eBay went from Paypal to managed payments, where you could see your shipping expenses all in one place? Yeah, that's a bit of "sticker shock" due to eBay adding it all up for you, in one place, and calculating total expense percentage for you as well. Yeah, that's an Eye Opener.
Although, it was always that way, those expenses were always there. Just most just never noticed it or put it all together. (I actually like that eBay did that, saves me a lot of time).
I do have several big gripes with the site now. But the fees are not one them.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoCare to share the other big gripes?
jerseyboymusic
·2 years agoNot another one of these threads... SIGH
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoWhy so many? Because this is straight thievery.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoThere's a website dedicated to musical instruments, recording equipment and audio gear that charges approx 9% fee. Since you chose eBay instead of that other popular site, you must have compared fees and decided eBay was better because ... ? I don't know why. You tell us. Because eBay has a larger buyer base, maybe?
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoI'll chuck it in the garbage next time.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoCutting off your nose to spite your face if you're going to toss $838 in the trash because you don't like the fee percentage.
hartungcards
·2 years agoDo it all yourself website? Are you maintaining the website and paying the server costs?
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoDo it all yourself website? Are you maintaining the website and paying the server costs?
Exactly and that's not to mention the salaries and benefits of the 11,000+ people that work there, office space, utilities, infrastructure, Federal and State Taxes......................
dhbookds
·2 years agodo it all yourself website?
lol..........trying making your own website from scratch, developing listing form, integrating shipping/sales tax/payment facilitator/ etc............ and then doing SEO so you might get more "lookers" than your family and friends.......
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoOr Craigslist.
redmodelt
·2 years agoThe "people" did come together about the fees..the owners and investors. Guess you didn't pay attention to the fees when you sold stuff over a year ago and the fee percentage is only a little higher!
Wait till you don't receive your pay-out for up to 30 days or longer in some situations as a returning seller, because you haven't sold anything in over a year.
Before pressing the list button, listing show the approximate fees as a heads up. The only parts of that can't be figured in is the sales tax the buyer pays or if auction because ending price is not known, but you could estimate that.
fern*wood
·2 years agoThe last thing I sold at a local auction house charged me a flat $10. for advertising and 35% of the selling price. I complained as I walked out the door, but at least I knew the costs upfront before using this option. It was my choice bottom line.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoNot trying to be harsh, but the fees are listed and available for any seller to read before listing.
And they are actually 13.25% in most categories.
It may be a do-it-all-yourself web site, but did you notice who maintains the web site?
ETA: A little surprising that eBay would let a new seller list such a high-priced item. And you made the choice to list with F/S, so let's hope that you built the shipping cost into the item price.
Congratulations on your first sale!
nobody*s_perfect
·2 years agoBut the item that the OP sold was in a category with a FVF of 14.95%.
And they have 135 feedback as a seller, but almost all of those fb are so ancient that they don't show the listing titles any more. OP has been a member since 2001 so they probably go back to the days when listing was expensive, paying for every insertion and image, but fvf rates were much lower.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoMusical Instruments & Gear is a 13.25% fee with the exception of Guitars & Basses which is generally 6.35%
If you're looking at the listing category breadcrumbs and seeing Books, Movies & Music - that's just for eBay product catalog purposes. Not going to dig them up right now, but there have been a few discussions about how those product catalog breadcrumbs are misleading. Musical Instruments & Gear is not nested under Music so that 14.95% fee does not apply here.
dolcetreasures
·2 years ago13.25% on top of taxes and shipping is not 13.25%. We all know that, it’s subterfuge.
fern*wood
·2 years agoThe percentage doesn't go up, just the dollar amount the percentage is based on is higher than you hoped. Many sellers want the the percentage to only be based on the selling price, it just doesn't work that way.
dolcetreasures
·2 years agoI’m quite familiar with math thank you.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoThe final value fee is calculated on the item price, the shipping cost and the state sales tax, if applicable. It is not ON TOP of taxes and shipping.
And it's a little surprising that anyone with eBay experience would think otherwise.
dolcetreasures
·2 years agoThe seller is not paying 13.25% of the selling price, that’s the point. It comes out to, in some cases substantially more. The OP may not be familiar with the fee structure as most casual users are not. eBay was created to be a low entry point into e-commerce, and they do a poor job of expressing the associated costs to newbies amongst a sea of other misdeeds.
sltom6
·2 years agoNewbies who don't read before they list and then come here to complain...sigh!
redmodelt
·2 years agoThe OP is not a newbie, the last items sold was just over a year ago.
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoThey charged me 137 on a 975 sale. That is 14.05%. This is **bleep** stuff.
monroe67
·2 years ago"The seller is not paying 13.25% of the selling price, that’s the point."
OMG, Not Again. "That" may be your point, but it is not what eBay's stated policy is.
Section 5 of eBay's User Agreement, the one that is entitled "Fees and Taxes", has a link in its second paragraph that says "Selling fees." When you click on that link, the system takes you to a few more paragraphs that are entitled, interestingly enough, Selling Fees.
Then you will want to scroll down a little bit further until you get to the section entitled Final Value Fees.
[Begin Quote]
"Final value fees
We charge one final value fee when your item sells, and you don't have to worry about third-party payment processing fees. This fee is calculated as a percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus $0.30 per order.
The total amount of the sale includes the item price, any handling charges, any shipping costs collected from the buyer (some exceptions apply), sales tax, and any other applicable fees.
An order is defined as any number of items purchased by the same buyer at checkout with the same shipping method.
If you need to refund the buyer or cancel the sale, you may be eligible for fee credits as per our fee credits policy."
[End Quote]
I'll copy again the sentences I highlighted in bold and Very Dark Green print with some additional highlighting:
"This fee is calculated as a percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus $0.30 per order.
The total amount of the sale includes the item price, any handling charges, any shipping costs collected from the buyer (some exceptions apply), sales tax, and any other applicable fees."
This is not "subterfuge." It is a series of simple declarative sentences. The words are all very simple.
Even the math is quite simple. Percentages, at least in my day, were taught in elementary school. The concept of a "total amount" was taught in first or maybe second grade when you learn how to add numbers together.
It's just a matter of reading those words and understanding the meaning of each word individually and what they all mean when they are written together in the order shown.
BTW, my selling ID, and many other regular selling posters here, takes the position that her buyers pay her eBay fees.
dolcetreasures
·2 years agoNo one dare post on these forums without the same group of users scrambling to ridicule anyone who dare show the OP any sympathy.
I’m glad your education in school is proving valuable, I’m certain you were quite proficient in addition and subtraction.
monica-sells
·2 years agosympathy?
IF the OP approached with a logical, humble, respectful post, asking if things have changed the responses may have been a bit different....
(even though you really should know the expected return before you engage in a transaction)
downunder-61
·2 years agoWith all due respect, the fee's are easily seen and well explained........
I am blown away by the amount of people, both buyer and seller, who come to eBay (seller) to list item's when they know nothing about fee's, how to be paid, how to ship something they sell, how to deal with returns etc....... and (buyer) with no idea of the MBG which is on virtually every listing.
I can not imagine waking up one morning and thinking, I will start a business, so I rent a space and then sit and ponder how to go about it, while I whinge about the amount of rent I am paying.
I am sorry, but Business101 = LEARN YOR TRADE
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoReally? When you create a listing, it is RIGHT THERE for you to click BEFORE you click 'list it'
luckythewinner
·2 years agoThe buyers total payment is not the item price, and the item price is not buyers total payment.
eBay clearly states that they use the buyers total payment and not the item price.
That is not subterfuge on eBay's part, that is just you complaining and wishing your fees were lower.
maxine*j
·2 years agoIf it "subterfuge," how is it that "we all know that"? Nowhere does eBay say that the FVF is only on the selling price of the item; in fact, quite the opposite.
There is no subterfuge. The fees are clear. Anyone old enough to have an eBay account is surely old enough to look at what it will cost to sell something with a value near a thousand bucks before listing it.
The next complaint, I'll wager, will be when OP finds that his payout is on hold for 30 days because he hasn't sold anything for a year, which is yet more explicit and fundamental information that too many new and returning sellers manage to ignore when they list.
-
dolcetreasures
·2 years agoYou are misreading my comment, I was replying to someone’s comment not suggesting eBay’s policy is the point of subterfuge.
Maybe replying to comments isn’t as ideal and linear as it should be due to the fact that I’m in the process of driving hundreds of miles.
I just don’t care for the constant barrage of snarky comments against the OP. It’s not necessary.
maxine*j
·2 years agoOkay. Sorry that I misunderstood that.
-
mtgraves7984
·2 years agoThe next complaint, I'll wager, will be when OP finds that his payout is on hold for 30 days because he hasn't sold anything for a year, which is yet more explicit and fundamental information that too many new and returning sellers manage to ignore when they list.
@maxine*j
Unless the next complaint is that the last sale was before 2018 and the OP hasn't enrolled in Managed Payments.
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoFool me once
soh.maryl
·2 years agoAgain, how is it subterfuge when the fees are clearly outlined in several places and can be viewed by a seller before the seller lists his item for sale?
And, again, the 13.25% is NOT on top of taxes and shipping. The percentage of the final value fee to the seller is calculated on the total of the item's selling price, the shipping cost and the state sales tax, if any. It is calculated on the TOTAL AMOUNT that the buyer pays to the seller.
berdoo08
·2 years agoIt's not about whether the seller knew about the fee's that are involved as I believe the seller has not sold in a long time or was there first sales ,but it's about e-bay's unbelievable percentage of fee's they are charging everyone as 13.25% is unheard of on e-commerce sites which is why e-bay has such a high turn around of new sellers quitting the site because of being forced to pay those outrageous fee's ! This site was built on the little people, moms and pops, small business , etc,etc ! But because of the large overhead that e-bay has built ,salaries etc. that has led to higher fee's but 13.25% is unheard of and they know it as I have been selling on e-bay for a long time and have seen the rise of fee's rise at an incredible rate every year and it is unacceptable period !! There are other options available out there that people are starting to use but with no guarantee that are free but you never know what your going to get which I believe is a 50/50 percent chance of getting what you paid for or even getting your money back , but even with e-bay that happens all the time especially with the seller not getting the original item back from a return and if you fight 95% of the time the seller will lose that case no matter what evidence you have e-bay refuses to investigate that item purchased or returned and it will count against the seller and possibly lose there seller account and or buying account !! What im getting at is all the fee's that are charged e-bay doesn't do a very good job at protecting the seller especially with all the fee's they charge !! The bottom line is if you want to make a profit than you have to have a large inventory and low prices even to compete in selling here on e-bay along with excellent marketing strategies but for people just trying to make a little bit of money back on one or two items its not gonna happen and people need to be aware of that as e-bay is not what it used to be at all and the times have changed and everything is more expensive and now the government wants a piece of the pie as well and to be competitive free shipping is usually required so by the time you add it up on an item that sells for $100.00 you only get roughly about $50.00 if your lucky and how much shipping you paid as well because keep in mind that larger corporations and large businesses are selling on e-bay and can afford to pay those fee's so there's so much competition it kind of makes it harder to sell an item and make a profit let alone what you paid for it !! The bottom line is if you dont like it ,dont sell on e-bay because to be honest e-bay really does not care as they have to protect themselves but at what cost ? Anyways my personnel opinion is that eventually e-bay is going to have a big lawsuit on there hands and not just a couple of people it's going to be a lawsuit where e-bay is going to have to pay out millions or more to all of the over fee's charges they charged to the sellers because e-bay is one of the pioneers of e-commerce and there fee's that they have charged are way to high so they are one of the leaders when it comes to charging fee's but there are consequences to being a pioneer and overcharging fee's to it's sellers and buyer's will eventually catch up with them because others will follow if they dont have a cap on what they can charge for fee's as this has gotten out of hand a long time ago and keeps getting worse until there is a large lawsuit and they have to pay back all that money for being to excessive on fee's !! History will show that it is inevitable !! Just my thoughts from experience !!!! 'berdoo08'
nobody*s_perfect
·2 years agoWhen eBay started charging their final value fee on the buyer's total payment including shipping, back in 2011, they set the final value fee rate at 9% in most categories for sellers who didn't have a Store subscription. Then two years later, they raised it to 10%.
BUT back then, sellers were also paying 2.9% to PayPal, so their total FVF rate was raised from (9+ 2.9=) 11.9% to (10+2.9=) 12.9%. And now it's 13.25% rather than 12.9%. That doesn't seem like a big increase to me.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoYou didn't check to see what the fee's would be before you listed the item?
mfujii2691
OP2 years agoYou're right, they got me! Won't happen again.