OK, eBay's IDIOT programming just cost me $39 in sales...
Customer contacts me, wants three coins. They're on her watch list, I send her offers. She wanted to buy them as a gift for someone.
She messages me that when she gets my offers it makes her "check out" instead of adding to the cart, and it's charging her the full shipping amount on each of the three coins instead of letting her get combined shipping.
I tried and tried to explain what's going on (how eBay is forcing this, has nothing to do with my store), and that no one knows why it picks some customers and not others to make the checkout button appear instead of adding to cart.
Well she likely doesn't trust I'll refund since from what I hear from my customers, many sellers do not refund anything even when they overcharge things like shipping... so now she's not buying the coins, and I just lost a $39 all because EBAY doesn't understand about people wanting to buy multiple items and combine shipping.
Who are they to decide if I want the customer to check out now or not? I don't have that enabled in my store, there's no immediate payment required, so if the customer wants to put it in their cart and request an invoice, I say to eBay "let them do just that".
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sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agoif your potential buyer is in another country and your using eBay international shipping, I don't believe combined shipping is an option.
Not sure why but must be some history on transactions issues that eBay has observed. Each international order needs to be treated separately.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoThe $39 sale I lost was US. The reference to international order was a different thread (where I mailed the wrong package, so it wasn't going to come back). I'm also not signed up for EIS, so there should be no issues with combining in the event it is an international sale (including Canada).
I've moved on from that, I'll try to remember next time that I should make a single listing, but as it was pointed out, sometimes we do that and the buyer disappears after that extra work.
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mam98031
·2 years agoThey fixed that option in December 2023.
Combined shipping is now available with eBay International Shipping
@seller_news_teamOur international shipping program, eBay International Shipping, keeps getting better! Sellers have been asking for combined shipping – the ability to package multiple items from one order in one shipment – and we are excited to announce it is now available. Combined shipping enables buyers to purchase multiple items from one seller and pay reduced shipping costs.
If you are currently enrolled in eBay International Shipping, there’s nothing you need to do. Your eligible listings will be updated automatically, and combined shipment orders will display like they do for any other domestic order. Simply combine and ship to the domestic eBay International Shipping hub, and you’re done.
And, if you are not currently enrolled, don’t forget the benefits of selling around the globe to millions of buyers with eBay International Shipping:
Smart Ship Tip: Opt-in to eBay International Shipping by following these simple instructions: login and go to “Account Settingsâ€, choose “Shipping Preferencesâ€, and select “Enroll†next to “eBay International Shippingâ€.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Combined-shipping-is-now-available-with-eBay-International/ba-p/34148251
mam98031
·2 years agoIDK why we can't have civil conversations without calling others names. The title of this thread is a good example. It is totally unnecessary and is not needed to get a point across. We can be civil here.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years ago"Idiot programming" is not calling a person a name. It's describing the fact that simple programming won't allow combining and requesting total when offers are sent out. It's not a reference to any person.
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mam98031
·2 years agoYou may want to tap dance around that statement. But most will know you are calling the programmers idiots.
If you feel you understand coding and structuring a program for a site the size of Ebay, then notify Ebay you are willing to help.
I make no claims that I know how to program and certainly not how to keep new or updated programming from affecting areas of the site not intended.
In the specific upgrade that you'd like to see, Ebay is working on this, or so I've been told.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoI work in a corporation, the programmers just do what they're told. If they're told to code it a certain way, that's what they'll do. They don't have creative control to decide how the system is going to work, they get a plan with structure and follow it. It's not the programmers' fault if it doesn't work, it's the fault of the entity that designed it to be that way (which is why it's "idiot programming" not "idiot programmers").
My ex husband is a programmer and got many bad instructions for designing things that didn't work very well. He's not an idiot and knows how to properly code, but his superiors wanted it done a certain way, so he had to do it that way. So thus why it's called "idiot programming".
Also my exhusband and I talk at length about the short comings of the website and he explains things to me, so while I'm not knowledgeable enough to help fix it, I know enough to understand how it should work and what's not working.
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mam98031
·2 years agoAll is fine, we can disagree. That doesn't have to become a problem or issue. We see things a bit differently, again which is fine.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoFair enough.
I'm all for civil conversation, but I get very frustrated sometimes when things don't work out and I voice my frustration using certain types of language (often things I can't post here, so I try to be careful to mind my words in the forum).
I'm sure I could have used better words to express myself, but like any seller in this forum, I don't like it when technical problems cost money.
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campanaelia
·2 years ago@mam98031
Did they ever program the exclusion list to work for the auto-pay option yet?
It's been almost 6 months since I was first told they were going to work on that.
That would've helped the OP in this situation.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoDid they ever program the exclusion list to work for the auto-pay option yet? That would've helped the OP in this situation.
@campanaelia
The OP removed the option from the buyer managements page that resulted in an auto-pay situation for buyers a long time ago. This is a new "enhancement" rolling out designed to cut down on non-payers. All seller generated offers will be "immediate payment required".....no opportunity to combine or invoice. The requirement on the OP's account remains in the NO setting as per the screen shot provided upthread.
a_c_green
·2 years agoI'm not into tap-dancing, but it's perfectly possible to have an idiotic decision or three when writing code, and some can be idiotic design decisions while others are idiotic coding errors. As no one person is being singled out here (odds are the source code was written by some long-forgotten contract programmer anyway), I don't see an issue there.
The bigger complaint is that once a process shortcoming of any kind is found, it takes an eternity to get it addressed, and in many cases it is never addressed. In the interim between when the problem is reported and when the problem is resolved, there is generally zero communication with the outside world, and in cases where it actually repaired, there is no announcement of the fact; it just gets noticed eventually by users.
I assure you that we (other IT professionals and myself) have done that on many occasions. I generally add my contact info if I'm making a problem report. Tech Support was my actual job for decades, at a subsidiary of a major software company that you have heard of.
To this day, I've had precisely one reply back and subsequent phone conversation, following a bug I reported in which changing the start time of a scheduled listing would inadvertently lose the user's time zone offset relative to Pacific time. I had a very pleasant conversation with a programming manager (name long forgotten now) where we stepped through how to reproduce the bug, he saw it as described, and it was fixed within a couple of weeks or so. There are a few others here who are in back-channel contact with eBay a lot more often, but I'll leave it to them to describe how many fixes they've achieved.
Well, that's what peer review (of the new code) and QA/integration testing is intended to achieve. In too many instances, we'll see forehead-slapping mishaps with a new release that make you wonder whether anyone tested anything before allowing the new code into Production use.
robbie31415
·2 years agoThe realm of programming itself is not susceptible to exhibiting idiocy, with the potential exception of artificial intelligence, which could be construed as a form of programmable intelligence.
fern*wood
·2 years agoI never understand why some of my buyers can request an invoice and others tell me they have to pay for each item. I don't have IPR on my listings (husband does, but only my items are involved) so why can some do it and others can't? I hate to end items and make new listings for people because often they disappear after doing the work.
a_c_green
·2 years agoJust as a data point, over in my buying account I'm currently waiting to hear back from a seller about combining the Shipping on a couple of auctions that I won. The payment page lists both auctions to be paid, but simply totals up the separate Shipping charges for each, even though they're so small and lightweight that they could travel together in the same box (or padded envelope) without even going into the next price point. There was a button there for requesting a combined shipping invoice, and it worked (I copied myself on the message just to be sure), although the seller has yet to reply, or send the requested invoice, or anything... 🙄
If this runs into the fourth day with no action from the seller, I'll have to pay for both, and you just know he's going to combine them anyway. I'm thinking he may be a bit miffed about how low the auctions ended (he started both at 99¢ and one didn't move from that spot), but hey, that's not my fault.
In cases like that where I'm setting up a special listing for someone, I gently nudge them into action by saying that I will schedule the requested listing to start at some point very soon (such as the top of the next hour, if we're currently exchanging messages), and send them the link to the scheduled listing in advance so that they can be ready to jump on it, but I'll also mention that the listing is First Come, First Served (a/k/a "You Snooze, You Lose," but I try to be a little more diplomatic than that... 😉).
a_c_green
·2 years agoI'm happy to report that the seller finally resurfaced last night, sending me an invoice that combined the Shipping costs and applied a discount, and I promptly paid this morning. All good.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoso why can some do it and others can't?
@fern*wood
Buyers that use a mobile device do not have the option to request a total. eBay's has been working on that for a few years now, and if you believe that.....
There was a discussion about this yesterday that provides other reasons it doesn't work.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyers-are-starting-to-get-the-message-and-getting-aggravated/m-p/34431069#M2390748
doc-holmes
·2 years agoI've been able to request a total on a mobile device in the past if I used the web browser instead of the app. The website would need to be in "classic" mode.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoI send her offers.
@sin-n-dex
Just so you know, in one of eBay's recent updates, they decided to ROLL OUT the latest 'enhancement' that makes all seller generated offers IPR. This was after all that other drama where they turned accepted offers into 'you sent an offer' that caused so much confusion for both buyers and sellers. I don't even think the different screens that were sent at random as we had discussed previously will be used. It will be pay or don't get it, or better pay INDIVIDUALLY or don't get it would be more accurate. Though the buyer can choose their payment source, there will be no opportunity to combine items for one invoice.
The inability to combine makes more money for eBay with individual transaction fees (30 0r 40 cents each instead of one fee for a combined order), and increases their number of items sold count for their GMV stats.
Based on your feedback, we’re extending these improvements to seller-initiated offers. When potential buyers are interested in your offer, they’ll be taken directly to checkout and, in order to accept the offer and secure the item, they’ll need to successfully complete payment.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/2024-Winter-Seller-Update/Reduce-unpaid-items-when-sending-offers-to-buyers/m-p/34301787#M3
Not sure if it is YOUR (un)lucky day or the buyer's for this "improvement" to hit at this time.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoI had someone buy 23 $2 stamp lots this morning and request an invoice for combined shipping... I'd hate to think they can't do that if I send offers on the items. A lot of my business is built on selling quantity of a bunch of little things in a single order. I realize eBay likes getting their 30 cents, but it's not a $20 item I'm selling, these are little things and those 30 cent fees make it not viable to keep selling those things here.
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cardxcraft
·2 years agoRefund minus transaction fee $0.30, and a cost per item add on. In fact, just build the business policy.
Kindly let the buyer know their refund for combined shipping consists of x amount of dollars minus $0.30 (Ebay Cost Per Order transaction fee) and seller cost per added item.
carlmarxx
·2 years agoI talked with 2 U.S. rep's and one a supervisor about this improvement On seller offers. I pointed out as a seller I didn't need it and ebay needed to butt out . And That like they did with GSP to my listing's was De respecting me . I pointed out that ebay has the tools for sellers in place to deal with buyers in categories that don't pay ,just do BIN with payment required no make offers . and it isn't my or any other sellers problem if some sellers refuse to use the tools.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoWhich means that we can no longer send offers and combine shipping once they accept (but don't pay) the offers.
Thanks ebay. I'd LOVE to know who sent the FB saying the IPR on offers was such a great idea.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoWhich means that we can no longer send offers and combine shipping once they accept (but don't pay)
@toomuchstuffagain35
There is no "accept" button presented to the buyer in this scenario. It is pay now, or you don't get it, decline, or ignore. @sin-n-dex did a good job a few months back posting screen shots regarding this. She would send offers. The same buyer would get a few of them. Some of them the same buyer could accept (proceed as normal/get an invoice/and pay a combined shipping price) and others sent at the same time required the same buyer to play the game of immediate payments separately. It appears eBay has decided on the latter option with no "accept" feature.
ten_o_nine
·2 years agoand I just lost a $39 all because EBAY doesn't understand about people wanting to buy multiple items and combine shipping.
-----------------------------------------------
How? I think you just lost a sale.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI fully agree it's a bad situation that eBay needs to address. If a seller does not check auto-pay on offers in their buyer requirement settings then eBay should not force it.
That said, since so many buyers are distrusting of "refund after the fact" due to the number of sellers that don't follow through, why not offer a choice of a post-sale refund as easiest option, or a custom listing at the agreed upon price if they're not comfortable with the promise of a post-sale refund?
Edit: Or you can cancel all pending offers, then lower item price to offer price so buyer can add to cart - tell them first come, first serve.
itsjustasprain
·2 years agoIf that buyer cannot trust a written statement saying flat-out 'I am not able to combine the charges with an invoice but I will immediately refund the excess shipping after your payment' or something like that then I would say that is more a problem with the buyer than the system. I have actually had that same issue in some multiple purchases of my own but the seller has simply said 'go ahead and pay it as-is and I will fix it later' and they always do.
I mean - I know the selling and combining procedures have big flaws - but good grief... if the buyer is not going to believe a promise provided IN WRITING then that is just sad.
doc-holmes
·2 years agoI get it. Even if it is in writing, if the seller doesn't follow through, will eBay do anything? Probably not. I'd probably take a chance of its a few bucks and the seller seems trustworthy, but I get why some may not.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoI think eBay can't do anything about that anymore then they can do something about the buyer who promises to be liable if tracking is not used. The buyer can say it will be their risk, but when the INR is filed, eBay goes by their rules to issue a refund.
I think having over 10K in feedback helps with the trustworthy part. And keeping a few bucks by not combining shipping will likely result in negative feedback, so it's not worth the risk. I have several checks along the way to make sure I get all shipping refunds done. I may catch it when they pay, or when I ship, if it gets completely missed, I will catch it when I reconcile at the end of the week. That's when I review and log all the figures.
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doc-holmes
·2 years agoBingo. It works both ways. For the record, I'd have no trouble trusting your account to make good on the promise, but Joe Schmo with 6 feedback? Nope.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoMy go-to for customer service stuff on eBay just got home from work, so we're going to talk on the phone about this to get some good advice on how to talk to customers in future (to at least be doing my best when this happens again).
But you do have a point, if a seller promises something in writing, it should be believed. But I've had lots of problems with lots of sellers over the years, and some of my buyers have complained about other sellers, so that likely has something to do with it.
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luckythewinner
·2 years agoBut you do have a point, if a seller promises something in writing, it should be believed.
Why didn't you simply create a new listing that included all three coins the buyer wanted, at the exact price you had agreed to, with the exact shipping you had agreed on?
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoBecause I didn't think of that at the time. I should have thought of it, but I didn't. It was pointed out here afterwards.
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ajs_coins_and_alchemy
·2 years agoBeautiful thing about making a single custom listing ... it can save you some money. If your buyer bought each item separately and you refunded after, you'd have paid separate transaction fees on each transaction (I know you're in Canada so Idk what that is in CAD ... it's 30/40c here depending on of it's above or below $20 I think?) So would've been a difference of 50c-80c USD savings. ..... every penny counts when you're selling coins 😉
Oh ... it could also save on those pesky AdD on FEES if you typically partake and then don't for the custom listing... that could save a PRETTY penny 🫣
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoI've done the custom listing thing for larger numbers of items, but I guess this was three items so I didn't think about it.
As for the ad fees, I've stopped paying to play. Some items still have promoted ad fee because I didn't remove it, I just stopped promoting things I was listing. Hasn't hurt my sales a lot to not promote, and I keep more of the money. Sometimes it was a $4-5 promo fee on an item, and margins might have already been a bit tight.
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tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agosin-n-dex
OP2 years agoThat low opinion explains some of the messages I get that are kind of out of the blue... being accused of doing something right off the bat instead of a simple question to follow up on whatever the issue is. I generally don't even know about the issue until I get a message like that, and it puts me on the defensive (which isn't really a good thing when replying to customers).
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gurlcat
·2 years agoHa you gave me a flashback. I remember what it was like to get bowed-up messages like that, used to get them fairly regularly, but it's been a while. Not to get too sociology-y, but I'd bet good money that if you did a study measuring hotheaded customers according to item categories, you would see some pretty strong correlations. Coins ....hooooo-oo-EEE, yes! When I was really into them, studying, sourcing, and slinging them (yeah I still have a few lousy ones posted) ..... I found myself in that defensive feeling you described pretty often. Incidentally I got the same (and worse) feelings from participating in coin social media groups. While there are certainly exceptions, that hobby is positively rife with ay- holes, and a lot of them can't separate the hobby from politics either. Now were I sexist I might count it as evidence that men are jerks, because the coin hobby is very male-dominated. But you know what other category fetched me a lot of confrontational customers as well? -Ladies fashion. Ooof.
With jewelry, I swear, the difference in people (on eBay and even social media) is like night and day. There are certainly exceptions with this too, in fact a couple of my all-time worst interactions were with jewelry people who think their sh don't stink, but the vast majority are SUCH darlings! And the only pre-loaded low opinion (of sellers) ones I get are with regard to packing. Just got one this morning in fact. Can't blame them because there ARE sellers who pack jewelry terribly; I've bought from them too.
But just look at the pains this one took to be polite and show that their concern isn't mindless prejudice against me. ðŸ˜
If you ever want to try your hand at selling jewelry here, hit me up and I can give you pointers on listing. It's got a lot in common with coins really, but the customer base truly is a whole nother animal.
campanaelia
·2 years agoI've learned over the years sellers can not always be trusted. I've been promised combined shipping adjustments many times before committing to buy and then have sellers totally disregard those agreements. It only takes a few bad apples to cause buyers to be more cautious. Yeah ebay will remove UPI strikes if they see combined shipping was implied before paying, but once they have your money there is no guarantee for the refund.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoGiven thought of the few messages that were exchanged, I think they were mistrusting they'd get combined shipping from the get go, and the pay and check out was just the final straw.
I don't want to pester the buyer, I'll just have to do better next time.
It's also possible the buyer is considering it, and thus doesn't want to be pestered either, so I think I need to let this go. I have lots of stuff to work on tonight and a whole evening of no commitments to work on it, so I'll move on pretty quickly.
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tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoShe wanted to buy them as a gift for someone.
Words that raise my expectations of a return of some or all of the items.
My worst risk of returns from customers, on all sites, has been early Christmas present orders in October.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoI've had some people buy things for gifts, some of the boxed coins and stuff make good presents to people who like the theme, but aren't really coin collectors.
I suppose with the October Christmas shopping, they know they still have time to shop and can afford to send something back, it's not like a last minute gift where you really need a gift by the (although there has been some complaints about an occasion being ruined because the gift wasn't as good as they thought it would be).
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pjcdn2005
·2 years agoI agree that it is annoying that they ever require immediate payment if the seller does not want it.
Is it possible that the require immediate payment for offers got checked off? I didn't think it applied to offers that sellers send out but I could be wrong.
Bottom of this page.... https://www.ebay.com/bmgt/buyerrequirements
If not, the only way around if it the buyer doesn't trust you to refund later on is to make one listing for all items.
sin-n-dex
OP2 years agoThis is what I see when I go to that page:
That's the only thing I see regarding immediate payment.
That's a brilliant idea to combine and make a single listing, I don't know why I didn't think of that an hour ago since I've done that in the past to avoid this constant check out and refund cycle we go on. But I think in this case I might have spooked the buyer and they don't trust me (which I'll agree is a default position most buyers have with people they haven't bought from before until proven otherwise). I should be thankful so many buyers do trust me, this is actually the first time I've knowingly lost a sale because of this. My partner says it probably happens a lot more, but the buyer never tells me what's going on.
C.