No Seller protection after 24 years on eBay
Summary: supremedrone shared a frustrating experience with eBay after a buyer returned a damaged drone for a full refund despite using it. They documented the case with photos, but eBay sided with the buyer. Other participants discussed the challenges of selling on eBay, noting that the platform often favors buyers, and seller protection seems inadequate. Several participants suggested alternatives, including shifting sales to other platforms with different return policies. The conversation highlighted broader issues with eBay’s customer service and the effectiveness of their seller protection policies.
I'd like to start by saying I'm a top rated seller with a 2% return rate for buyer remorse purchases, and have been selling on ebay for 24 years.
Recently a buyer purchased a drone from me, used the drone, re-listed the drone for sale on ebay with verbiage confirming they used the drone for professional purposes, could no longer afford to keep it and needed to sell it, and then opened a return request with me to return it. When I received it, the drone was obviously damaged. I spent a considerable time documenting everything in a .pdf for ebay with photos and descriptions of the damage in in each photo. The end result was ebay stating they couldn't be positive if the buyer damaged the item. My original listing clearly showed the the functionality, and physical condition of the drone. I went around and around with the High Value team, who essentially said my only protection is if I offer 30 day free returns on high value items so I have the option to offer partial refunds up to 50% if the item is returned in damaged condition.
This has been one of the most frustrating experiences I've had with ebay. The item was clearly photographed for the auction, the buyer used it for weeks, damaged it, returned it and got a full refund.
albany_sellers
·1 week agoRight from the jump the rep was already wrong. You do not need to accept free returns to make use of the deductions. You need to offer at least 30 day returns and be top rated.
This is the state of eBay. Reps who do not know eBay policy that tell you all about eBay policy and why they can't help you.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 week agoSeller Protection is a myth. The term was invented by PayPal and its initial terms violated the contractual terms of the major credit card issuers. Threatened with loss of the ability to process credit cards, PayPal took on a series of costs they had not anticipated associated with the limited protections they provided.
Ebay and most major websites operate with the knowledge of and compliance with credit card merchant agreements, and do so to avoid credit card chargeback disputes which can affect the rates they pay, whether they can accept credit cards and fees and penalties when they lose a dispute.
Relying on anyone other than yourself for Seller Protection is usually an expensive strategy. No one else's interests coincide with yours.
Most sellers will experience either a low rate of losses, or will need to reevaluate what they are selling.
There are many items which I would have sold online 30 years ago that I would not offer for sale today. The likelihood of a loss due to buyer fraud is much higher, and attempts to control them aren't any greater than they are today.
No seller wants to lose money, but many sellers do not understand that No Business is Better Than Bad Business. Determining what is Bad Business is the job of the seller.
No amount of sympathy will help a seller deal with the losses associated with some of the sales they make.
reallynicestamps
·1 week agoWell, that's cynical and pessimistic.
Right though.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 week agoWhen one reaches 80yo you are either cynical or have dementia. Dementia is not yet my problem.
My best business, which has funded a lifestyle which satisfies me, and will continue to until I have departed, included a modest amount of product shrinkage.
I have never been a person to stamp my foot and say this is wrong, thinking that someone else will punish the evildoer.
I've considered dispatching Vito to obtain justice, but that could bring the law down on me.
the_finding_place
·1 week agoIt is actually very simple: as long as you're making money, you have a business. If you're not making money, you're better off not doing that "business". What I've noticed is that many eBay sellers don't really have a business. They have a hope. They fail, move on, and someone else takes their place. If you're not a big brand, you cannot absorb the losses and risks that eBay expects sellers to take on. The only reason eBay as a platform still works is that there is always a new generation of sellers and the "next fool" hoping they can make a business out of it, which in most cases is delusional.
powell-collectibles
·1 week agoAt this point, the recourse is to sue the buyer. You have protections – they’re just not all from eBay.
pickapaper
·1 week ago · Editededited
ha451113
·1 week agoThat’s a tough situation, especially after taking the time to document the condition and provide detailed photos. It really shows how important it is to keep thorough records of high-value items before shipping, including serial numbers and condition-specific photos. Hopefully eBay’s policies around damaged returns become clearer and more consistent for sellers.
inhawaii
·1 week agoI had no idea that seller protection was based on years of service.
fern*wood
·1 week agoUnfortunately ebay is pretty much automated and will not get involved in disputes in this manner. Your best option going forward is to offer at least a 30 day return policy so you can have have the limited seller protection offered for top rated sellers. You could have then reported the buyer and deducted a percentage from the refund for the faulty return.
the_finding_place
·1 week agoI am personally moving more of my sales to platforms where sales are final. The issue with eBay's free returns and only 50% deductions is that many items can be rendered of zero resale value even when they appear to be returned in good condition with almost all accessories. For example, I received a smart lock with a few missing bolts. These are proprietary bolts that cannot be purchased anywhere, and the manufacturer does not sell them separately. From eBay's perspective, I received 99% of the product. From my perspective, I paid for return shipping for an item I can only throw in the trash. The same applies to his damaged drone. Can you realistically sell it to the next buyer in this condition? I don't think so. You now have to spend a lot of time and money to diagnose and repair that drone. A 50% deduction is hardly going to compensate for that. However, by offering free returns, you are encouraging buyer-remorse-type returns while gaining very little value on the other end, as even that 50% deduction is not guaranteed (like my smart lock example). And only on eBay do you get 30 days to return a product in practically WHATEVER condition. Even DJI states that drones must be returned in like-new condition. A major company like Apple gives you 14 days. But on eBay, apparently the model is: buy it, use it for 30 days, open a return request, keep using it for another 15 days, ship it back late and damaged, and still get all your money back with no questions asked.
gone.c-33
·1 week agoThere is no such thing as final sales on online platforms that accept electronic payments.
the_finding_place
·1 week agoThat is another piece of misinformation I see repeated on this forum: that the buyer can simply open a CC chargeback and get the money back anyway. I have won 100% of the chargebacks opened against me.
The bank actually conducts a proper dispute process, takes evidence from both sides, and adjudicates whether the buyer is entitled to a refund. The bank actually does much more than eBay does, despite eBay collecting all these fees and offering "seller protection" and still doing absolutely nothing.
gone.c-33
·1 week agoYou can win a merchandise not received or a charge not recognized chargeback, winning a refund not processed/merchandise different than advertised is almost impossible, even when you the merchant of record and dealing directly with the merchant account.
the_finding_place
·1 week ago · EditedFrom my experience, that's not true. I've won almost 100% of the chargebacks I've dealt with, including the ones mentioned above. Most of those scammy buyers who threaten a chargeback aren't capable of writing a sentence that makes sense, let alone putting together coherent documentation for a bank. Second, even if you lose a chargeback case, that only means the bank or card issuer decided to reverse the transaction. A chargeback is not a court judgment. It does not establish that the buyer is legally entitled to keep the money and/or the seller's property. The seller can still pursue the dispute through the appropriate legal process/court, which I have no problem doing. All of that makes you a very difficult target for a scammer, and they'll give up and move elsewhere. Nothing is final and bulletproof, but scammers are scammers because they don't want to do anything difficult in life. On the other hand, what eBay is doing with its policies is essentially putting a "SCAM ME PLEASE" billboard on every seller's back and calling it "seller protection".
chapeau-noir
·1 week agoUnfortunately, photos, etc., mean nothing in these situations as eBay has never had the actual item in hand and so can't adjudicate. Years on the site, etc., make no difference. It's an unfortunate hazard of selling online.
If you're a top rated seller you don't have to offer "free" returns to be able to deduct for damage, however.
the_finding_place
·1 week agoeBay does adjudicate disputes by siding with the buyer without evidence, taking money from the seller and returning it to the buyer. That is adjudication without evidence. If eBay does not intend to adjudicate these disputes, then it should not "step in" at all, and it should leave sellers to deal with the buyer themselves. If negative seller feedback/reports accumulate, auto-remove the seller from the platform. Simple. But what eBay is currently doing is not good for sellers or the platform. And this is not an "unfortunate hazard of selling online". It is an "unfortunate hazard of selling on eBay". There are other Marketplaces where sales are final, and I have zero "not as described" or "defective" item reports there. Same items, same listings. How odd.
With current policies, eBay is attracting a certain type of buyer that is ultimately hurting the platform for everyone. What's worse, I am certain that even eBay itself will soon bear the cost of these ridiculous policies. And I know some people will say that's just how it has been for years. Watch what happens if eBay doesn't change something soon. This will snowball.
chapeau-noir
·1 week agoeBay defaults to the buyer - that's not adjudication, that's an on/off toggle.
I mostly sell elsewhere these days, but yes have experienced actual adjudication where a decision is made and not a simple binary action as is done here, and it's a definite improvement.
the_finding_place
·1 week ago · EditedI understand what you're saying, but my argument is that eBay's approach is one of the most seller-hostile forms of adjudication. Another piece of misinformation I see repeated on this forum is that the buyer can simply open a CC chargeback and get the money back anyway. I have won 100% of the chargebacks opened against me.
The bank actually conducts a proper dispute process, takes evidence from both sides, and then decides whether the buyer is entitled to a refund. The bank actually does much more than eBay does, despite eBay collecting all these fees from the seller and still doing nothing.
I'd honestly rather have eBay leave me alone to deal with the buyer and any potential chargeback than "step in" and pretend there is some "seller protection", which is to always advise you to "report the buyer" as if that ever accomplished anything.
shire123
·1 week ago@the_finding_place You are absolutely right about this being seller-hostile.
What you are paying your fees for on ebay is the exposure of your listings to the millions of users of ebay. You can't get that kind of exposure anywhere else. Well, maybe Amazon but from what I have heard their rules are much more difficult to comply with.
Ecommerce has risks that if you participate you must be willing to assume. Any losses can be taken off of your taxes. That's business.
Also I seriously doubt that any site that has "all sales final" will not prevent a charge back from the buyer's payment source.
the_finding_place
·1 week agoThat story has had some merit in the past. I'm not going to name other platforms because I don't want to be accused of promoting another Marketplace, but I've experienced firsthand much better exposure with much lower fees on platforms where most sales are final. And if anything, the buyer can still initiate a chargeback, which I'm completely okay with becasue it is within my control. And this is NOT only about money or reporting losses to the IRS. It's about having virtually no protection as a seller on this platform, which creates an enormous waste of time and distraction. Anyone who has dealt with a bad buyer knows how much mental bandwidth it consumes. That's time you're not spending listing more products, processing orders, or helping good buyers. That's where eBay loses too. If sellers had meaningful protection, I could spend that time listing 50 more items instead of dealing with one bad buyer. I will never force a buyer to keep a faulty or subpar product when the problem is my fault. In nearly 1,000 eBay sales, I can honestly say I've made two mistakes: once I sent the wrong product, and once the product was actually faulty. Everything else in terms of "not as described" returns has been BS you can only see on eBay.
shire123
·1 week ago@the_finding_place Once a seller realizes and accepts ebay's stance on seller protection and you have done all you can at the beginning of your listing process, then there is no need to spend a lot of time with a bad buyer.
You get a NAD claim you accept the return, authorize the return label, and wait for the return. Refund only upon receipt and deduct 50% if you are able to (top rated and have 30 day free returns). There is no need to engage with the buyer.
You get an INR then you just upload the tracking to the claim showing delivery. Again, no need to engage with the buyer.
After all of those issues, you block the buyer so you don't have deal with them again.
For me bad buyers are few and very far between, I have many spent 15minutes in the last year dealing with issues. Very minimal time wasted.
chapeau-noir
·1 week agoeBay seems to have problems with resource allocation - their CEO and C-suite have the usual over-compensation, but the site is starved on the customer service end.
the_finding_place
·1 week ago · EditedI think the issue is much deeper than inadequate customer service. To be fair to eBay, they are one of the rare platforms where you can still get a human on the phone. The problem is that all those humans can't do anything to help you. All you hear is "I truly understand what you're saying, but I have my limitations and can't do anything", followed by, "report the buyer". I honestly don't understand the purpose of having these support roles if their only function is to answer the phone and tell you they can't do anything. So, the problem isn't getting a human. The problem is that the human has no authority to actually resolve the problem, and their hands are also tied by ridiculous eBay policies, even when the person on the phone agrees with the seller 100%.
chapeau-noir
·1 week agoYou describe perfectly the problem of inadequate customer service - something that is, by design, ineffective.
I also wonder why eBay even bothers.