No seller protection
Summary: The discussion revolves around frustrations with eBay's seller protection policies. disneykat26 expresses dissatisfaction with eBay's failure to protect sellers despite following customer service advice. Others, like shire123 and bonanza125, argue that eBay's guidelines are often misunderstood and that sellers should manage expectations around buyer returns and disputes. Suggestions to offer free returns for better protection were discussed, with some participants sharing experiences where free returns offered additional benefits. The complexity and limitations of seller protections were debated, with various opinions on eBay's fairness and transparency concerning seller support.
Hey ebay. If you aren't going to honor your own seller protection guidelines the least you can do is be honest and change your policy to "sellers have no protections" period. When a buyers lies about a return reason and customer service says to accept the return, report the problem and appeal that should cover the seller. But no, there is no appeal option if you accept the return, so the seller has no recourse for a buyer not following the buyer agreement in the same t.o.s. we all agree to. At least be honest and say "we plan on screwing all sellers who do business on our site".
inhawaii
·1 month agoThere ARE seller protections.
It depends on the situation.
drnusbaum
·2 weeks agoPhone rep told me specifically that only Top Rated Sellers have the option of doing partial refunds if customer sends a damaged Return, every other seller is screwed - all they can do is report the buyer and hope they get karma one day.
What other seller protections are there for bad INAD claims ?
oldwestgold
·2 weeks agoTrue.
gurlcat
·2 weeks agoIt's really not.
gurlcat
·2 weeks agoThat is not true. Any seller with Above Average status can do the 50% withholding, if the listing had Free returns. The advantage for TRS sellers is they can use Free OR Buyer pays returns. But I'm TRS and I still have Free because of it's many other advantages.
jgmicromanufacturing
·1 month ago · EditedIt's true. There's no seller protection at all. I've just dealt with a nuissance buyer named k*********n (not supposed to name them either to protect other sellers? FFS!) who acted like he was the second coming, got verbally abusive, demanded I call his phone number (most likely to get more abusive off the record outside of a text communication). Even after fixing the initial problem and being as decent as I possibly could, he's now committing actionable slander via feedback and continuing to be abusive through the feedback system even after blocking and reporting him. Sure, he has a 100% positive feedback, but only because he's a buyer. And since buyers can't get negative feedback ever on this platform, he realizes there's no actual consequences to his actions.
(EDIT) Turns out he was dumb enough to send me a regular letter to my PO box here in Maryland *with postmarks from the USPS in Chicago verifying authenticity* to move the purchase of multiple units of my fences off ebay to "get a better price" and "avoid your tax & ebay fees" which is already several red flags. I've already reported this and now I sit and wait to see what happens.
adamcartwright
·1 month agoThere's little we can do to change eBay's MBG, but what you can do is report any buyer who abuses the policy by lying about NAD or returning something different. Enough reports and hopefully there will be a big fat juicy punishment.
dbmm-media
·1 month agoyou do not have to accept a return, but you do have to refund
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 month agoThe only protection a seller can rely on is what he does to remove reasons for a buyer to return a purchase.
It is a perfect situation but it works better than thinking you can state no returns and enforce that policy.
I state no returns on my listings, I accept all returns. Even if the buyer is a liar, and I know it in my heart, I am not going to sue and try to get a court to accept my proof he is a liar.
And Ebay isn't going to do it either. It is not worth their time and money, any more than it is worth mine or yours.
Ebay sellers have had a desire for protection ever since PayPal coined the phrase. PayPal did so without realizing that the credit card companies and various regulatory agencies limited their actions against buyers.
PayPal started off trying to claw back the refunds they refused due to seller protection.
PayPal started eating the cost after the credit card issuers threatened to cut them off.
christworks
·1 month agoCan't say it better than @gurlcat . Free returns is the best way for most sellers. If you have never tried it, change to it and give it six months.
gurlcat
·1 month agoOne of the easiest ways to get seller protections is to have Free Returns. Then not only does a buyer not have to lie about their reason to force a return, but if the item is in worse condition than you sent it, you can withhold up to 50% of the refund. Free Returns is also key to either winning card chargebacks or having eBay cover the refund for those out of their own pocket, rather than take the money from you.
Contrary to what you might assume, Free Returns does not result in more returns. Many sellers including myself found the opposite, surprisingly. I think it is a psychological thing, where a buyer knowing they have nothing to worry about ... doesn't LOOK for things to complain about.
Also note that Free Returns is one of the sorting filters buyers can use when searching for something. If they use that filter and you don't have FR's, your item won't even be shown to them.
disneykat26
OP1 month agoClearly you are missing the point that following what EBAY INSTRUCTED ME TO DO TO BE COVERED left me with no recourse since what ebay tells you to do literally is meant to not cover you.
stainlessenginecovers
·1 month ago@disneykat26 who?? instructed you. A phone rep?? From a 3rd World country and does not have any pull nor most of the item, no correct answers?
You did NOT need to, and should NOT have to 'talk' to anyone about a return.
The system is automated.
You need to read the '30 day money back guarantee' on all listings to understand that buyers ALSO have protections.
Since you do not accept returns, simply means any buyer in the know can just use a 'not as described' reason to force a return.
You CAN report the buyer AFTER you approve the sale, and all that does is:
If buyer gets numerous reports, ebay could stop them from 'returning' things in the future. COULD. And, you are NEVER told and this does NOT allow you to 'appeal' or 'ignore' a return.
drnusbaum
·2 weeks agoThat seems like you are just agreeing with her OP that "Sellers have no protections." So what is your point ?
Interestingly, the phone rep told me that only "Top Rated Sellers" have protections and can issue partial refunds for bad returns. Any other seller is at total mercy of INAD (and I DO Accept Returns 30 days, buyer refused to communicate with me and forced an INAD anyway, plus I wouldn't have even known to offer a partial refund because I wouldn't know the item was damaged by buyer into I got it back).
gurlcat
·2 weeks agoStop calling the phone reps. They are not eBay employees but contract workers who don't know eBay policy.
You don't have to have TRS status for the partial refund withholding. It's actually like this:
ALL sellers with Above Average status: 30 days Free returns, can withhold up to 50%.
TRS sellers: 30 day Free OR Buyer pays returns.
That's where the TRS status is slightly more privileged. But I would have Free returns on all my listings even if I wasn't TRS. For a whole bunch of reasons. @drnusbaum
jonathanbrightlight
·2 weeks agoSellers have very specific, and somewhat minimal, protections. eBay can't protect sellers from most issues, because they never see or handle the items in question, and the law and credit card policies favor the buyer. Take advantage of the protections that are available to you as @gurlcat said, and stop expecting eBay to do something their policies don't say they will do (and the phone reps are not able to change stated policy).
gurlcat
·1 month ago@disneykat26 I was not talking about any past issues you've had; I meant for future seller protections, you should have Free Returns. I'm not preaching you some morality doctrine, just the facts. It's what eBay wants you to do, and they reward you if you go along with it.
Take this information or leave it, no skin off my neck.
christworks
·1 month ago@disneykat26 Nobody missed the point but you. eBay has clearly defined policies that apply to every seller. You don't get special treatment by talking to an eBay rep.
One little life lesson for you: Customer service reps, whether they answer the phone for eBay, your cable provider, etc., are trained to show empathy. They also have to meet time requirements for calls. Telling you what you want to hear is a common tactic employed by CSRs. Unless you have something in writing, what you are told holds no water. The only thing in writing is eBay policy.
lakefor94
·1 month ago@disneykat26
Read @gurlcat 's post a few more times as YOU are missing the point.
And, you have no point as your transaction turned into a complete loser.
If you continue with how you "think" eBay should work, expect the same results.
drnusbaum
·2 weeks agoWhat an asinine response. OP is correct, there are no seller protections, and seemingly never have been as I have followed ebay on and off over the years.
Ebay should not pretend to be friendly to sellers, the only advantage is the huge market and built in customer base.
Posts like OP are useful to other sellers to warn and confirm how things work, so we spend less time trying to understand the byzantine ways ebay screws us. The main purpose of the Ebay Community is to help Sellers navigate this BS.
jonathanbrightlight
·2 weeks agoThere are some protections, but sellers need to understand them and know that they only provide specific recourse (a partial refund being the main one) if specific criteria are met, and that requires being proactive and knowing what is offered and what is not.
lakefor94
·2 weeks ago@drnusbaum as the poster above mentions, there are some seller protections that can be invoked.
The main deal is a seller has to know how to handle themself on eBay or any other ecommerce venue.
Makes it a lot easier when you know the rules and how to use them.
drnusbaum
·2 weeks agoHow does having Free Returns protect you ?
I Accept Returns for 30 days, the buyer messaged me about an issue and then did not respond at all to my offer to fix it, they just immediately forced an INAD and sent it back - damaged and missing accessories, and then eBay forced me to do a 100% refund to avoid a strike; phone rep confirmed that I have zero recourse for myself but I could report the buyer for a bad return (doesn't help me, "might" help protect other sellers from this buyer in the future). I had no idea they can return things damaged and there's nothing you can do, we made a video opening the return box and taking photos (just in case) only to find out it's useless evidence.
gurlcat
·2 weeks ago@drnusbaum What happened there was a PERFECT example of how free returns would have protected you. Because if buyers have remorse and honestly choose one of the remorse reasons from the menu, sure you have to pay for the return label, but when you do the refund after getting the item back, you can witthold the original shipping from the refund (please tell me you don't do "free shipping" because then there would be no original shipping to withhold).
But here's the best part: if the item is in worse condition than you sent it, you can withhold up to 50% of the item PRICE in the refund -but only if you have FREE returns.
And bear in mind, if you don't have free returns, some buyers with remorse will purposely damage their item to get an INAD return, so offering free ones just makes it safer to get your item back intact, ready to sell again.
florida_parts
·1 month agoIts been like this for over a decade
drnusbaum
·2 weeks agoWhat is your point ? Not everyone has had the experiences yet, posts like OP are important to have regularly in the support community to warm/confirm for other sellers how ebay works, especially less experienced sellers. I have been using ebay on and off for 25 years, and it's always helpful to come back and confirm with others whatever current hell Ebay is doing to sellers (that's how I'm in this thread).
bonanza125
·1 month agoThat's not how seller protection works. You are talking about two different things. Ebay has buyers protections where the buyer can return an item not as described among other things within 30 days for a refund. You are talking about the reasoning behind the return. There is no protection. Your buyer has 30 days. When selling online there is always a risk. Your no return policy means nothing when it comes to buyers filing a case for return.
stainlessenginecovers
·1 month agoSeller protection DOES have guidelines- as you stated. Does NOT mean '100% protection' and NEVER did.
kensgiftshop
·1 month agoWhen a seller doesn't accept returns, buyers know all they have to do is lie and file an INAD to return the item for a refund.
shire123
·1 month agoEbay is unable to determine who is lying. All you can do is report the buyer for abusing the return process. If the buyer does it a number of times they will be removed from ebay.
Your only option is to take the loose and report that as a business expense on your taxes. For just about all sellers these instances are very few and far between. But that is one of the risks of ecommerce. No site will 100% protect the seller. And even if should find one, there will always be the chargeback issue available to all buyers.
disneykat26
OP1 month agoWhen an item is as described and they report for damage, yes, ebay CAN determine if a buyer is lying. You are missing the point of ebays customer service specifically told me over then phone to proceed as I did and I would be covered because they looked at the listing and said "yes the buyer was lying". So no they don't follow their "guidelines" either.
dnsrmpl_2
·1 month agoI just talked to ebay having the same problem with a buyer not being truthful and they looked at our converstion and pics and they said I was protected and if the customer leaves bad feedback, they would remove it because it’s obvious by the pictures and what she said was a lie. I was glad that they actually took a look at what was going on. I sent a customer at Jade necklace and she told eBay that it was plastic I’ve been buying and selling vintage for years, and I know the difference between plastic and stone. I would never sell someone plastic claiming it was Jade.
shire123
·1 month agoAs you have found out, ebay CS will often say what you want to hear to get you off the phone. This has been reported many times here.
So while they say you are protected, you found out you still had to refund.
What I said above still stands. The buyer will always get a full refund no matter what a CS says. (unless of course you accept 30 day free returns and are able to deduct 50%)
disneykat26
OP1 month agoMy original point still stands then and they should state "sellers have no protections". Offering free returns in order to have maybe 50% protection, which will be disputed by buyers and ebay will accept that dispute in favor of the buyer, means NO PROTECTIONS.
gurlcat
·1 month agoWhen a buyer disputes receiving less than 100% refund from the seller (because the seller used their protection), eBay MAY issue the rest of the money, but they pull it from their own revenues, not from you. I just had a case like that a couple months ago, and several previous ones over the years.
With Free Returns, you absolutely get to withhold some of the refund if the buyer sends the item back in worse condition, and you absolutely get to keep that money. Period.
bonanza125
·1 month agoYou are missing the point of ebays customer service specifically told me over then phone to proceed as I did and I would be covered because they looked at the listing and said "yes the buyer was lying".
Key words you mention "Ebays Customer service specifically told me." They tell you stuff like this to get you off the phone. You are now in a community of experienced sellers and buyers who are telling you the facts and are knowledgeable to your situation. Absorb the information.
disneykat26
OP1 month agoOh right cause expecting the company I'm doing business with to provide guidance on how to handle something according to their "guidelines" clearly is my fault. Like say it's my fault for getting punched in the face just cause I chose to stand in front of someone and ask how do I avoid getting punched in the face by you, do everything they say and they still punch me in the face.
gurlcat
·1 month agoNobody is blaming you. We're telling you things you didn't know before you started this post.
You're welcome.
kensgiftshop
·1 month agoHow is Ebay supposed to know if it's damaged or not, they don't see the item.
drnusbaum
·2 weeks agoI am seeing more and more p2p selling sites/apps that are far more seller friendly, and they also seem to have very large customer bases already, and the buyers don't seem to mind. Ebay policies of cowtowing to buyers (because Internet 1.0 shopping 30 years ago was so scary) seems extremely outdated. Ebay still seems to have the overall largest customer base and widest variety of products to find, but I wonder how long it will be king.
I have also noticed that the newer selling platforms seem to eat the loss themselves on inscrutable problems, rather than always taking it from sellers. I suspect their profits can stand it much more than independent low volume sellers.
jonathanbrightlight
·2 weeks agoI don't really believe that you're seeing any sites that are more seller friendly and that have customers. I certainly haven't seen any.