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No protection for the seller - Ebay forced me to accept return
I recently started selling some of my stuff on ebay because I'm moving overseas for a while and I want to be as light as possible and because I cannot accept returns and resell, I describe my products %100 accurate.
I sold about 10 to 12 items and got %100 feedback and very very nice comments because I was %100 accurate and put so much effort to my packing to make sure nothing happens to the electronics I sold. All of my listings were very very clean, almost looked like a non used product.
The last item I was selling was a very very nice and super clean Zeiss camera lens for Sony E-mount. The lens was taking photos just as normal, the only problem it had that the focus ring was stuck and I described it very accurately in the description and even shot a video to demonstrate the problem so I know the person who buys the item knows exactly what the sitation is, because I didn't want any problems due to moving overseas.
I put the item's price half of what the relative listings were and immediately there were 5 people interested in it and 1 of the potential buyers sent me a message to hold it for them before someone else buys it. Just as I replied to them, they said "I couldn't wait and was afraid someone would buy it so I bought it already". I was happy my lens was sold and that was the last thing I needed to sell before I go.
After a week the person filed out a return request and said that item had a defect. I said that it was in the description. They said they didn't see it because it wasn't clear(it was very clear in the description, even with a supporting video link) and tried to exploit me for a 150 pounds discount (half of what the listing was). They said "I'd keep it but I'd need 150 pounds". I said this is unacceptable because you didn't read the description properly and rushed into buying it and actually prevented me to sell to one of the other 5 possible buyers who can read the description better than you.
I contacted ebay, told about everything, long story short even though they admit that I was right, they forced me to accept the return. They said they cannot compensate me, they cannot do anything about it because the buyer has the right to return in any case in 30 days.
You take commission from the seller, you clearly be on the buyer's side even though it was a %100 huge buyer mistake. Then why do you have "no returns accepted" selection in the listing and why should I be on your platform to sell things?
I had a good impression so far on ebay because of how easy everything was but this occassion completely killed their image in my eye and once this issue is resolved, I will never ever sell/buy anything here, also tell everyone around me not to use it.
Now I'm about to move to another country, the item will be returned to a friend, I won't be able to receive it and resell it and receive its money. The buyer denied me from selling it to another potential buyer because they rushed it and bought it without reading it. And because of this mistake, ebay is punishing me, telling me that I'm right but at the same time forcing me to accept the return, and in the end the item is going to be sitting in its box in a friend's house for at least another year and maybe devalue even more.
I will never ever use this platform again. This is exploitation, nothing else.
kh-stanley1
·1 year agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
whatmorefabric
·2 years agoEbay takes credit cards. Banks and CC companies all require that companies that take CC must use their terms, which includes taking returns.
These policies have nothing to do with Ebay,
luckythewinner
·2 years agoI recently started selling some of my stuff on ebay because I'm moving overseas for a while and I want to be as light as possible and because I cannot accept returns and resell, I describe my products %100 accurate.
First, all sellers should list with 100$ accuracy, regardless of their situation or reason for selling.
Second, the fact that you do not want to take returns is not really enforceable, because eBay offers a money-back guarantee and allows any buyer to file a dispute for Not As Described and almost always win it.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoI have no doubt that you described your item accurately. But I recognize that there is no feasible way for any marketplace to spend the time required to inspect your item and determine that is the case. Nor is it likely that Ebay or any other marketplace could hire competent people to do they job,.
The final sale sale is no more. It is economically unfeasible and likely to be unfeasible from a government consumer protection point of view as well.
Although this is a big concern for individual sellers especially those with special circumstances, the returns problem has been elevated in importance by large retailers as well.
The result is going to be higher prices, but personal income sluggishness and inflation are delaying the fix.
This problem is not specific to Ebay.
On Amazon, where FBA returns are inspected, many defective items are returned to stock and reshipped to other customers, the intelligent manpower to make the decision is not there. Deciding when an admittedly defective product is not as described is even harder.
get_it_sell_it
·2 years agoThe return policy is horrible for the seller and everyone just bends over and takes it. The money back guarantee supports shady people. Unfortunately its part of the process of being on ebay. I don't understand how anyone can defend it the way it is right now. No returns should mean no returns, and if buyers dont want to take the risk then the item doesn't sell. Easy.
If you can't relist it and have your friend ship it out for you, then you probably should have just negotiated the partial refund with the buyer. One thing I know is the people that message you before a sale usually turn out to have issues.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoIf Ebay wants to accept credit cards, they have to offer returns.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoIf Ebay wants to accept credit cards, they have to offer returns.
Possibly. My local restaurants and gas stations accept credit cards but don't believe they offer returns.
mam98031
·2 years agoThree completely different types of businesses.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoThree completely different types of businesses.
I realize that and should have expanded a bit. There are two elements that come into play the first is the businesses returns policy which they do not have to have in order to accept credit cards. However, most but not all cc's have some form of return protection that protects the buyers in some but not all situations.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoTo accept them on line, you have to accept returns and it's in the contract you sign with the credit card company.
At least that's the way is was when I signed up to accept credit cards on my site.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoNot sure how it is in a B&M location.
gone.c-33
·2 years ago“Card not present†transactions are handled differently than in person transactions.
But even in the case of in person transactions, chargebacks are possible, in case of stolen cards for example.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years ago“Card not present†transactions are handled differently than in person transactions.
But even in the case of in person transactions, chargebacks are possible, in case of stolen cards for example.
Quite understand that but there is nothing simple about the use of CC's, their policies and the current laws. Master Card's rules/policy is just over 440 pages.
https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/public/mastercardcom/na/global-site/documents/mastercard-rules.pdf
Their chargeback guide, merchant edition is 730 pages.
https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/public/mastercardcom/na/global-site/documents/chargeback-guide.pdf
There are also a multitude of laws that cannot be over ridden by either the CC policy or the merchants. A lot of these relate to the return of counterfeit items.
mam98031
·2 years agoI wouldn't quite describe it that way. It is a cost of doing business here or anywhere. The MBG supports good honest buyers and unfortunately there is always those that will find a way to take advantage of most any system.
Stating how a process / policy works on Ebay is not "defending" anything. It is simply explaining the subject at hand. But some do read more into it than just explaining why something happened.
Ebay is not the only site with policies that could be better written to protect sellers. It is worse on Amazon BTW.
pastcache
·2 years agoPretty sure there are a lot of shady buyers who know how returns work and take advantage of it to get partial refunds. I find that the ones who make statements like "I can still use it but need a partial refund" on unsubstantiated NAD excuses, especially on items priced lower than average, almost always result in the item not being returned. Its just someone phishing for a better deal. Then there are the real pains who dont do the return but then move onto clever feedback extortion that skirts any rule breaking.
golfingaddict
·2 years agoYou are correct.
It is a buyer's world and there is very little protection for the seller.
What is worse is you may not even get the original item in the same condition as you sent.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope your move is successful and you have many adventures in your new location.
an-57470
·2 years agoYou absolutely can refuse returns. But… you cannot refuse to refund.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoWhat happened to you is regrettable, of course; however, you were in such a hurry because of your circumstances that you neglected to educate yourself about selling here, especially about the Money Back Guarantee. That reading would have been doubly important for you because of the fact that you were leaving the country.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoIt is unfortunate that this happens as often as it does on this platform but it is not all that much different from any ecommerce site you shop on. I have seen way to many posts where something was listed for parts only yet the buyer failed to read or see that, or maybe they didn't understand what that meant.
I am not sure how you fix the problem but it's just simply a part of selling in the ecommerce market place. At least you were not scammed out of the item like some sellers are.
monica-sells
·2 years agodefinitely was sympathetic to your situation...
until this....
"...I will never ever use this platform again. This is exploitation, nothing else..."
A. You need not announce your intention to never use ebay again.
B. Exploitation? I am trying to apply that term to your situation.
doyeme-0
OP2 years agoI can announce whatever I want, I don't think you need to be concerned about who announces what.
Yes, it's basically exploiting the seller and favouring the buyer in every single case. The seller is paying nothing, even though they make a mistake, even though ebay admits it's a buyer mistake, they still let them return the product. Why am I paying for this mistake? I'm telling you, there were 5 people interested because the price was too low and it was clearly described with a supporting video.
As a seller, you cannot refuse a return, you can only accept it, refund it or refund it partially. There's nothing that in seller's favour, even though the seller is paying for this platform.
mam98031
·2 years agoI realize you are mad and upset. On ANY platform like this one, it is the Seller's responsibility to know the rules. Which it is YOUR responsibility to know the limitations to the No Return Policy you had on the listing. I realize you are mad at Ebay because you did not understand or know the limitation.
All @monica-sells was trying to explain is that there is no need to come here an announce your departure. Just simply that. Not that you didn't have the right to come here and post.
Sellers are not being exploited on this site and you weren't exploited. You did not know how the No Return policy works. That is what happened.
"As a seller, you cannot refuse a return,..." That is not true. As I explained in a previous post, sellers with a No Return policy CAN deny a properly filed Buyer's Remorse return.
If you decide to reconsider your current position, make sure you read and learn this policy as it is this policy you weren't aware of that caused you the current situation you find yourself in.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210
I wish you nothing but the best.
monster-deals
·2 years agoHe could have known all about the MBG and would still have gotten taken advantage of.
There is almsot nothing you can do to avoid bad buyers.
mam98031
·2 years agoOf course, but did this buyer "take advantage" of the seller? IDK that they did that. There opinion of the flaw in the camera was obviously different than that of the seller. The buyer deemed it more significant. It likely boils down to a difference of opinion, not that one was trying to "take advantage" of the other.
harleyguys
·1 year agoWhat concerns me is ....Once a brand new unopened package item is shipped to the buyer , if the buyer opens the item to see if they like it or its fits the application, the item is now concerned " new -other". The resale value of the item , particularly electronic items has been slashed 40 or 50%, and lord only knows if they buyer didn't burn the internals of the device while testing , or worse yet....return their defective product. Terrible polices, need new platforms to compete...next will be a policy that states, " if you have a return, we will deduct $500 from your payouts" why not? what can a seller do....
mam98031
·2 years agoThe return policies options are as follows.
With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request. Or if they want to, they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping. If the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.
On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return. Plus, if the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they use options 4 or 5 as their return policy.
On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns. If a seller that has either of those policies, they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return. A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping]. Also, Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below. In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.
ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception. Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.
All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!
14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.
For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.
mam98031
·2 years agoI am sorry to hear that you feel this way about this final transaction you had. It comes from a misunderstanding on your behalf as to how a No Return policy works. It is a common mistake by a seller that is new to the site.
Buyers are covered under the MBG [money back guarantee] policy. All return policies that sellers state on their listing must meet or exceed that policy. Sellers with a No Return policy can deny a properly files Buyer's Remorse return request, but the can not deny an INAD [item not as described]. Yours was an INAD.
While you explained the problem in the listing, the buyer may have found it to me more than they were willing to deal with or had some other reason. It doesn't really matter, they are covered by the MBG of the site.
No seller's listing can conflict with the rules of Ebay. I know it is upsetting. You will find that all platforms have rules. Some you will like and some you won't.
I hope your move went well and your new place is all you were hoping it would be.
doyeme-0
OP2 years agoThen in your explanation, even though the item was described %100 accurately, the buyer can say whatever they want to say and return the item because there's a protection. This for me is a very bad and an unfair system, because of the inconveniences that can create for the seller. Most of us are not businesses, I'm just a normal person that is selling their personal stuff.
Thanks for the wishes, greatly appreciated
mam98031
·2 years agoPretty much true on any site, not just this one. Keep in mind that your OPINION of the problem with the item may not be the same OPINION the buyer has. To them it may be worse than you described. That is the problem with opinions, they can and do vary from person to person.
Most of us are normal people. But there is a diverse group of people that use the site, so likely if you sell long enough, you will run across a multitude of personality variances.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoWhats going to happen 6 months from now if one of the buyers file for an return through Pay Pal or does a charge back through their credit card?
Returns is just a part of selling.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoBuyers are now buying on an iPhone or cellphone on the eBay app.
And the "description" doesn't show...you have to look for it to click on it.
If buyer uses a computer you can see it easily.
I have had some problems with buyers purchasing on a cellphone or iPhone.
Sellers are now in the "title of the item" for sale or on auction...putting the words..."Read the Description".
I think doing a title like "....Camera lens....Read the Description!" as a title could help in future big items for sale. Just a thought.
doyeme-0
OP2 years agoDescription not showing directly on an application that is designed by ebay. Is that my problem or ebay's own UX problem?
It's clearly not my problem so that's why ebay has to own it, if the reason was about the buyer missing the description