NEW COIN STANDARD...SELLING BY "WHO'S" RAW COIN GRADING?
Summary: In the discussion, bransonbilly raises concerns about a new coin grading standard, questioning the impact it might have on sellers and the subjective nature of coin grading. They have been selling coins for many years and prefer to sell items "as-is," feeling that the responsibility of grading should fall on buyers based on photographs. tobaccocardyahoo responds by explaining that eBay has implemented similar grading requirements in other categories without significant buyer pushback, suggesting that eBay's implementation may mirror past changes. gone.c-33 adds that e-commerce evolution has changed buyer protection, making "as-is" selling on platforms like eBay incompatible with current buyer protection policies. Other participants, including sin-n-dex and oldwestgold, express frustration about the rollout of the new standards, highlighting issues with grading subjectivity and technical difficulties with eBay and third-party software integration.
This "new coin grading standard"...you want nonprofessional people to "grade" coins? I find most of my coins in rolls and change...some in uncirculated "ONE YEAR-ONE DATE-ONE MINT" rolled coins...others in mixed rolls and change. Also buy high dollar PCGS and NGC coins. Those I know...other RAW coins are worth a lot less (unless you know what you are doing)!
So, by your "new standards" everything is circulated...but PCGS and NGC grade coins "FOUND IN CIRCULATION" over the years as uncirculated?
This seems like a "HUGE CAN OF WORMS" to make sellers LOOK BAD? Most dealers and collectors "OVER GRADE" their coins. I have been collecting and selling coins for about 60 years since high school...what does this prove? I am a licensed auctioneer...we NEVER grade our sales...that is up to the buyer...ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IS; "AS-IS". Are you creating more NEGATIVE SALES for sellers?
Every coin has NO HISTORY...except found in a SUPPOSED "UNCIRCULATED" ROLL? But Scammers assemble "uncirculated" rolls!!! Yes, people are stupid, buy on their cell phones! I buy on my big screen computer, look at the pictures, then make a decision to buy, bid, or reject!
So, every coin I sell now...except from a "supposed documented uncirculated roll"...is "circulated"...HOW DOES EBAY KNOW where "MY" coin came from? I have seen coins in "MINT WRAPPED ROLLS" HAVE HUGE DAMAGE...ARE THOSE STILL "UNCIRCULATED"? YES, THESE COINS ARE...but would "GRADE LOWER"!
Grandpa's coins he received brand new from the bank HAVE NO HISTORY...so are these coins "circulated"? This is proof that non-coin and amateur people as buyers can reject sales with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF? Also, do people who run eBay, also have no clue to actual coin knowledge and history?
The pictures are what the "buyer" sees...It is up to them to "GRADE THESE COINS AS SHOWN"! Not your responsibility or mine as a seller! I have seen SO MUCH over the LAST 25 YEARS on eBay, that as described are ABSOLUTE LIES in description or condition...in all categories!
Sales are always "BUYER BEWARE"...it is NO ONE ELSE'S JOB to protect "STUPID"...
Thank you!
oldwestgold
·2 weeks agoGrading is subjective. And yes, the top two grading services make a lot of mistakes. I have a computer file full of errors they have made. Anytime humans are involved, you will have mistakes. The new grading standards rolled out are guaranteed to be for legal reasons. eBay could care less if buyers are getting ripped off. You can be as honest as you want with how you fill out the fields in the new grading/condition section or not. If eBay can't even tell what items I have listed are in violation at this point, all I can do is the best I can with what I have to work with.
The whole rollout of this effort was poorly initiated. That should tell you a lot. Some of my items, like a gold scale, have the new coin condition requirements to fill out. Go figure. So I fill them out.
My approach has been - do the best I can to meet the new requirements. Let eBay(bots) tell me if I missed something and how to fix it. Other than that, I couldn't care less.
sin-n-dex
·2 weeks agoThanks for addressing this, I'm in the process of using my third party software (SixBit) to update the listings. Before they introduced this, I graded things as UNC, AU (UNC coins that were handled or have small marks from a kling-klang against other coins), and circulated. I let the buyers look at the picture to decide how circulated it looks, and I don't like the idea of grading these. (I haven't gotten to the circulated coins yet anyway, I've been updating UNC and AU ones so far).
When I updated it in SixBit and Synced it, eBay wasn't picking up the coin condition field in my third party software to update the listing on eBay. I went to one of those listings to edit the listing, and that field still needed to be selected (even though I already did all that). So on eBay, I put a grade of AU/XF, and it's not even showing in the listing when buyers view it. They're talking about enforcing something but they don't have it together to make sure everything works before they do. (I know third party software might be part of my problem, but using it doesn't change the fact the field doesn't show in the listing on eBay when I do update it).
Another thing I don't like, is I would prefer to grade a coin as VF/XF, not XF/AU and F/VF. There's a lot of subjectivity between VF and XF on how much wear there is, and my buyer might not agree with me if I say XF/AU (as the only choice). Having the option VF/XF in there as well for more in between items subject to opinion can be labelled by the novice that's listing them.
I've looked at lots of coin listings to see what my competition is doing, and a lot of sellers know nothing about coin conditions or grading (yet eBay expects them to do that, which is your point in this post). I can do my best to form an opinion, but you're right that we might be setting ourselves up for disappointed buyers by putting a label on something we are not professionals for.
C.
bransonbilly
OP2 weeks agoJust to add...PCGS and NGC make mistakes...and they are the "top" graders...
I have seen gold coins graded...let us say as MS-63...and I see a huge amount of difference.
Strike, bag wear, toning, tarnish, etc. how do you really know..."opinions"...
oldwestgold
·2 weeks agoHave you seen a gold coin with two drilled holes through it graded MS65 by PCGS? How about octagonal coins certified as round? Fake coins certified genuine? I have it all in a photo catalog of errors. Even the PCGS Coinfacts website contains errors. When I email them about it, they couldn't care less. The "Gods" don't like to be corrected or made to look incompetent. So I don't bother anymore.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 weeks agoIn other categories where grading is mandatory, Ebay has defined the conditions which for the grade in the create a listing process and displays them to the buyers.
In many of those categories, it labels them as ungraded in spite of there being a grade, in order to differentiate them from items which have been graded by 3rd party grading companies.
Sellers have survived the change in the other categories and there has been no buyer pushback of significance.
I suspect that when the new requirement rolls out, it will look a lot like what Ebay has done before.
bransonbilly
OP2 weeks agoThank you for the reply...I had over 11,000 recorded sales for 2002-2021...I always made a judgement on coins...yet told the buyer to examine the pictures I took with a bunch of different angles...make your own judgement. I sell everything AS-IS as a local licensed auctioneer. I am not a "retail store" LOL! So now I just list it with this new rule...as AU-XF...even though it may be UNC. Unless I came out of a mint roll...than I list uncirculated. I just started selling again on ebay...have 2500 error coins I saved over the years. Plus a few other "deals" I find.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 weeks ago · EditedUndergrading is a common practice among sellers. I often undergrade because my goal is profit without hassle. I have repeat buyers who recognize the value they receive and help me keep my revenue steadier than if they were not there.
I do not deal in coins or stamps other than a few exceptions which appeal to other types of collectors.
Ebay has changed a lot over the years, and much of it has proved to be for the better. Of course, many of us sellers have changed too, and recognize that what we list and how we list it is the only seller protection we can rely on.
You may have received that message.
bransonbilly
OP2 weeks agoI had 100% feedback...
Most as auctions. I sold a huge amount of beer and soda collectibles. I sold 3 soda cans on eBay in the early 2000's for over $10,000. No complaints.
My pictures were flawless as possible. I bought a lot on eBay for resale...never once did I have a problem...never complained about what I bought (buyer beware)...98% or better I made money, I am smart enough to know what I am buying. Made a lot of money that way. Amateurs want an excuse...for their ignorance.
I was part of the MS65+ craze in the 1970's...I went through old time dealer stock...sold for really nice profits to high dollar coin dealers when I was in high school.
Now...I will also "undergrade"...but is that not the buyer's responsibility?
Smart buyers know what they are buying...correct?
I recopied some from another reply.
The secret to business is to be the best "buyer"...most collectors in any category are not.
PS...I have sold 1,000,000 things in my life...huge amount of coins (cannot even estimate)...1000 vehicles...indoor salvage yard (vehicle parts)...100,000+ beer and soda items...flipped property.
No one comes to rescue me if I make a mistake...
gone.c-33
·2 weeks agoSelling “as is” makes sense for in person purchases as the buyer can look over the item and buy it as is.
Since the buyer cannot confirm whether the item is as described and/or photographed in a listing, there is no such thing as “as is” on eBay.
bransonbilly
OP2 weeks agoI had over 11,000 recorded sales for 2002-2021...100% feedback. Most as auctions. I sold a huge amount of beer and soda collectibles...my pictures were flawless as possible. I bought a lot on eBay for resale...never once did I have a problem...never complained about what I bought (buyer beware)...95% or better I made money, I am smart enough to know what I am buying. Made a lot of money that way. Amateurs want an excuse...for their ignorance.
I always made a judgement on coins...yet told the buyer to examine the pictures I took with a bunch of different angles...make your own judgement. I sell everything AS-IS as a local licensed auctioneer. I am not a "retail store" LOL! So now I just list it with this new rule...as AU-XF...even though it may be UNC. Unless it came out of a mint roll...than I list uncirculated.
gone.c-33
·2 weeks agoOnline commerce has changed a lot and buyers have protection now.
Selling “as is” and eBay’s money back guarantee (and major credit card companies’ protection policies) are simply incompatible.