NBC CT Responds We tested silver coins bought on eBay, and they were all fake!
Summary: En el hilo de discusión, los participantes discuten sobre la adquisición de monedas de plata falsas en eBay, destacando un informe por parte de NBC Connecticut sobre la compra y prueba de estas monedas. Un participante, go-bad-chicken, menciona que las monedas se vendían a precios sospechosamente bajos, como $25 en lugar de los $90 que debería valer una moneda legítima. Otro participante aporta que la falsificación no es exclusiva de eBay y discute el interés por monedas falsificadas antiguas, sugiriendo un cierto romanticismo asociado a ellas. También se menciona el término 'caveat emptor' que significa 'Que el comprador tenga cuidado', reflejando la responsabilidad del comprador al verificar la autenticidad del producto.
This is an interesting news report, which was investigated by an NBC affiliate in Connecticut.
Fake silver coins on eBay? Say it ain't so.
Dane Bowman comparing our fake coin (left) to a real Silver Eagle (right).
eBay wrote:
eBay has zero tolerance for the sale of counterfeit items, which are strictly prohibited on the marketplace. Following an internal review, the sellers in question were immediately suspended and all listings were removed. We actively work to protect our site and prevent counterfeit listings through block filters, AI-supported monitoring by our team of in-house specialists, and external experts and partners. eBay has robust systems in place to keep bad actors off our site and promptly removes listings that violate our policies.
eBay spokesperson
krazzykats
·4 months agoHere’s an even better one: 0.03-cent US Forever Stamps—no wonder the post office is going broke. And then there are all the people buying the fake stamps... it feels like everything is fake these days and nothing’s real. Everyone seems to be cheating. What a world!
10 rolls of 2023/2024 US New Stamps Collection (totaling 1000 USPS) eBay
The fakes have taken over, and nothing genuine is left.
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krazzykats
·4 months agoWhy do all the sponsored or similar ads under that stamp listing feature paraphernalia? Is counterfeiting connected to smoking paraphernalia?
The internet has been so strange lately....
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marnotom!
·4 months agoGo back to the listing page and see what category the “stamps” have been listed in.
roccotacodad54
·4 months agoYawn.................
quadcitypickers
·4 months agoeBay has had a fake coin problem for as long as I can remember. More recently they have had an issue with people listing fake auto parts, parts that are generic, but have been branded and put in branded boxes, like OEM brands like Denso, NGK, etc.
There are all kinds of ways to combat this issue. Such as requiring a length of time and feedback score in order to sell in categories with a high risk of counterfeit merchandise. As it is, and always has been, once a fake seller gets shut down, there seems to be little in the way of stopping them from opening a new account.
eBay requires an SSN OR an EIN, and while it's a pain to legally change your SSN, it's easy to get a new EIN.
Personally, I think deep down eBay knows it can put an end to these issues, but the fees they make on illegitimate sales is probably too great to do so.
eburtonlab
·4 months agoThere are all kinds of ways to combat this issue. Such as requiring a length of time and feedback score in order to sell in categories with a high risk of counterfeit merchandise.
Buyers do not have to wait for eBay to impose any new restrictions; buyers can already apply those same standards themselves to the sellers they buy from, and avoid any sellers that do not measure up. That way individual buyers can have much higher standards than any that eBay could impose.
When eBay blocks sellers from listing items if the sellers do not meet certain criteria (such as minimum account age or minimum feedback number), or if the item does not meet certain criteria (such as coins with a price at or above spot metal value), scammers do not simply give up and go away, but keep trying different combinations of things until they hit on the combination that lets them get around eBay's limits. They sell a few keychains or hijack an existing account with enough feedback to qualify, or raise their "too good to be true" prices just enough, and then start selling their counterfeit coins once more.
When eBay forces sellers to meet minimum standards to qualify to sell certain items, this can actually have the perverse effect of training scammers to make their scam listings harder for buyers to identify: once one scammer figures out how to get around the new eBay-imposed limit, other scammers will copy the successful scammer and the new scam listings will proliferate, in very much the same way that over-reliance on antibiotics actually breeds more antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
When buyers impose and enforce their own individual limits, scam sellers are still able to list their scam items, they just don't sell much. And scammers don't get the immediate feedback that trains them to "improve" their scam listings they way they do when eBay blocks those initial listings.
ccomic
·4 months agoI have to say that I chuckled more at this quote than just about any other post made here this year. After reading countless messages about fakes and people complaining about fakes getting warnings from eBay for crying wolf, etc. It was truly amusing. Amazed at the difference between a national media complaint vs. a normal user complaint ...
On a different subject, anyone need an 80% discount on stamps from the company that has a "zero tolerance for the sale of counterfeit items"?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/198351307242
gurlcat
·4 months ago@ccomic Some years ago I got a few sheets of endangered species photo stamps really cheap here. I just wanted them to decorate letters and card envelopes, figuring they couldn't possibly be used as actual postage. But due to my incurable curiosity I gave one a try, and it delivered the card.
But I wouldn't use any after that. I'm very loyal to the United States Postal Service.
ccomic
·4 months agoYes, I have no idea if those stamps are genuine or not. Maybe some small business bought $20K worth of extra stamps and now has to unload them cheap while coincidentally a half dozen other companies did the same thing.
marnotom!
·4 months agoBut according to the listing's category, they're not stamps, they're "other paper collectibles".
ccomic
·4 months agoMaybe that also explains why this item isn't counterfeit ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/358022635114
For reference:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/122771701445
I guess so long as the buyer knows its a fake, no one has a problem with it? Of course that doesn't seem to hold true for fakes carrying brand names of companies that might actually sue eBay. So, no fake Rolexes, just fake bullion and "other paper collectibles".
marnotom!
·4 months agoI think it's more a matter of picking one's battles. It's more effective in the long run to educate buyers on what to look out for in listings as well as the use of the Money Back Guarantee. The way I see it, we should be wasting these "sellers'" time. eBay already has a payment holds process in place that should make selling counterfeit merchandise pretty unattractive. We just have to make sure buyers know the system.
But, yeah, the golden rule is at play here, too. As in, "He who has the gold, rules."
gurlcat
·4 months ago@ccomic Well it's interesting that the fake v. real gold bar examples you shared were PAMP which is a brand. If you want to get a dealer of fakes kicked off, it's more effective to share the link to the company being faked, so THEY can deal with getting the listings taken off eBay.
jdbelt1960
·4 months agoCounterfeiting is not exclusive to eBay. Actually, it so pervasive that there is a good chance that among the cash in a typical person's pocket may hold counterfeits without knowing.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@jdbelt1960 Believe it or not there's a niche market for counterfeit coins, not modern ones but old or ancient ones, referred to as 'contemporary counterfeits.' If I had the time and money to actually have a hobby, I could see myself getting into that one, because I have a soft spot for the idea of people who made a living a in a way that was technically dishonest but instead of doing something "easy but awful" like mugging victims at knife/gun-point, they dedicated themselves to recreating valuable things, requiring knowledge and skill development. Yeah it's still kind of awful and may hurt other people besides "the man" but if the counterfeiting was long enough ago that the victim stories are long forgotten, it's easier to attribute a sort of Robin Hood romanticism. 😆
I think I actually have a 18th century contemporary counterfeit from Spain. There was no coin minted that year in Spain that was exactly like it. It has the correct diameter of 'this' coin, the right devices as 'that' coin and the metal content for 'this other' coin, but there was no coin with all 3 of those characteristics.
The night I was trying to identify it (about 5 years ago) was the very first time I ever fell asleep in my recliner with the TV on. I woke up in the middle of the night, utterly amazed and bewildered, couldn't remember what I was watching or doing before sleep took over (I swear no alcohol or drugs were involved, ha). Then I stood up to go to bed properly, and this coin fell from my chest! It had baffled me so bad it knocked me right out! 🤣😆😂
gurlcat
·4 months agoThis is pretty bad optics. Any honest coin seller who thinks it's good because maybe eBay will eliminate fake coin dealers doesn't understand how easy it is for a determined fraudster to get past elimination tactics. Not only can they ship something other than what the listing photos show, they can also register as American despite operating out of a foreign country.
When eBay decides to really eliminate a frequent source of returns and chargebacks, not to mention public spectacle that could tarnish its whole brand, they won't just try to "enforce harder" they will eliminate the whole category.
How many here are aware that they ALMOST DID already, when we switched to Managed Payments? It was one of Adyen's stipulations, and I was big into coins at the time so I was devastated, but somehow eBay changed their mind at the last minute.
But if I'm truly honest, at the back of my mind I've always found it kind of surprising that coins have been an allowed category all along. Maybe not bullion rounds, because that is a private manufacturing product, but actual national currency coins (and paper bills), offered by random 3rd party sellers, heck I'm surprised the government allows it. If they made it so collectors could only buy from a few big corporate clearinghouses, that would seem oh-so-modern-day-America.
grann-4629
·4 months agoNot only can they ship something other than what the listing photos show ...
Any seller selling any item can do this, not just coin sellers. The original eBay mandate must have included something about trust being the most important factor in on-line business of any type.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@grann-4629 I read your reply over and over, and I can't tell what your point was. The first sentence, of course that's true, but that's just further support of my assertion that banning fraudulent sellers (of any item category) can't be achieved by looking at their listings. And your second sentence, I can't make any heads or tails of.
grann-4629
·4 months agoMy point is that anyone can show something and ship something else and that the best way it can be avoided is by trusting your trading partner is going to do what s/he said s/he was going to do. I have been saying that descriptions and photos don't prove anything since I started posting here.
Without trust, venues like eBay could not survive, so I assume a statement to that effect would be in their original mandate. You do know what a mandate is? Sorry you coin toss analysis of my statement may be giving you a hard time 😎
gurlcat
·4 months ago@grann-4629 My coin toss analysis? Huh??? I think you are attributing hostility to my question that wasn't there at all. Do you understand that there's a difference between saying I don't understand your point and saying you don't have a point?
And I'm still unclear on your assertion. Some of what you're saying makes sense as stand-alone statements, but how do they fit in the bigger picture of the thread topic, or my reply that you replied to (bear in mind, numerous people in the thread said sellers can ship something other than what's shown in photos, before I said it).
I don't even know if "your trading partner" means an individual seller or the whole eBay platform (can you see how the meaning of that sentence changes dramatically depending on which of those you meant?). Are you saying eBay is not going to survive because it's not living up to its mandade of trust? Or what??
grann-4629
·4 months ago@gurlcat
Never mind ... just ignore what I say ... maybe the forum can block my posts on your device? 😎😎
jonathanbrightlight
·4 months agoUnfortunately we can’t block specific users. I know there’s a couple I would have blocked long ago.
tobaccocardyahoo
·4 months ago@luckythewinner included the magic words in his post "in a cost-effective way"
Note how Ebay does not use that in its response. But we all know that tripling or quadrupling their cost would not be adequate to eliminate all of the offenses.
Unrealistic expectations, fueled by sellers who are being impacted by the lack of trust for online coin sellers is the bigger problem to Ebay.
Coins are listed on Amazon in a variety of categories. Amazon's Collectible Coins category is far safer to buy from. Why? Because Amazon pre-approves sellers and Amazon requires all coins being offered in that category to be graded and authenticated by one a of limited list of third-party graders.
Ebay knows the solution to the counterfeit problem. They are unwilling to tell their many sellers of ungraded coins to go elsewhere.
grann-4629
·4 months agoEbay knows the solution to the counterfeit problem. They are unwilling to tell their many sellers of ungraded coins to go elsewhere.
I believe eBay does not know the solution to the counterfeit problem ... if they did, they would fix it. They are not losing anything. The constant hit they are taking from all the talk about fakes sold on their venue has to be hurting them more than any loss of revenue if they got rid of the bad guys.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months ago'problem was easy to find'...
' AI-supported monitoring by our team of in-house specialists, and external experts and partners'...
This was responded to only because it was by NBC affiliate in Connecticut.
Otherwise, it business as usual...😄
meme6253
·4 months agoThis can really put a damper on coin sellers, Legit or not,people will be very weary to purchase coins on Ebay, It's one of those things that could potentially spoil it for everyone else.
broto_64
·4 months agoTo be fair there exist many listings that use words such as "clad" or "colorized" or a number of other techniques that are in the description - admittedly it can be difficult to find the "word" as some sellers are not trying to be obvious but these particular coins are not truly fake. They can be used for movie props and such.
As well the MBG does protect all buyers, but buyers have to act within that 30 day timeframe.
quadcitypickers
·4 months agoSure, and pigs fly. I've reported hundreds of obvious fake coins and scams, have yet to have seen one pulled.
grann-4629
·4 months agoSure, and pigs fly.
I saw them fly at a local Pink Floyd concert many years ago, at least I thought I saw them 🤩
onlinecentral
·4 months agoWas it at the Grateful Dead concert at the Akron Rubber Bowl on July 2, 1986?
Caveat Emptor is a Latin phrase meaning "Let the buyer beware," placing the responsibility on buyers to inspect and evaluate goods or property before purchase.
The $25 price for a $90 coin is the giant red flag.
go-bad-chicken
OP4 months agoNah this is ebay. Caveat venditor takes precedence over caveat emptor. And it should.
grann-4629
·4 months agoWas it at the Grateful Dead concert at the Akron Rubber Bowl on July 2, 1986?
Winnipeg, July, 1994 ... it was my b'day and me, my friend, and his dog were there. I loved their music then and still do now.
inhawaii
·4 months agoThank you for that information.
I will take the appropriate action.
tobaccocardyahoo
·4 months agoIt is unclear to me whether any of the obviously fake coins are selling and in what numbers they are.
The NBC station would be expected to not know what they are buying.
Fake coins are only a problem if they actually sell, and the buyers are too ignorant to know they are fakes and file an MBG claim. That is, of course, if we fail to include the honest coin sellers who are avoided because there are fakes listed on Ebay in the problem.
When I had any interest in coins, which was before the internet, coin dealers had a shady reputation, hence the creation of third party grading services. A good consumer reporter could have reported on fake coins for at least 75 years.
go-bad-chicken
OP4 months agoIm assuming that the investigators at the NBC affiliate were pointed in the general direction. cough, cough,cough
"NBC Connecticut purchased these four coins from sellers on eBay."
"Six coin collectors from across our state told NBC Connecticut Responds they have seen counterfeits popping up on eBay, potentially leaving unsuspecting buyers scammed out of hundreds of dollars. They asked the Responds team to investigate, and the problem was easy to find.
Our team identified four eBay listings described as 1oz bullion Silver Eagle coins. Everything about the listings seemed like the seller was offering a legitimate, pure silver coin, except for the price, which was around $25 and significantly below the market rate. Real Silver Eagles currently sell for around $90, according to coin experts."
tools*
·4 months ago99.98% of silver being sold on eBay below spot is obviously counterfeit, so all "silver" coins and jewelry and bars from China should be taken down. But maybe it's too lucrative for eBay to want to take down.
a_c_green
·4 months agoRick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?
Captain Renault: I'm shocked! Shocked to find that counterfeiting is going on in here.
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
Ref: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034583/quotes/?item=qt0429972&ref_=ext_shr_lnk
stephenmorgan
·4 months agoThat is not true. eBay clearly stated they take this issue seriously.
eBay wrote:
grann-4629
·4 months agoNice story ... thanks for the link. The pic where it shows the guy holding both a fake and a real coin, the differences are obvious ... I'm surprised that buyers can't see this, unless Message 2 here is correct.
eoma689485
·4 months agoMy response was a humerus one, not to be taken seriously.
The problem occurs as sometimes real coins are shown in the listing, and it is not what people are receiving.
go-bad-chicken
OP4 months agoThis is probably the most used MO of the fake coin sellers. They'll show a real 1oz coin and send you a fake.
Casual buyers or new collectors may not find out until years later.
marnotom!
·4 months agoAlso, many listings have only enough evidence to suspect fraud, but not to prove fraud.
luckythewinner
·4 months agoExactly. And eBay has 1.5 billion listings.
Even if eBay were able to physically visit every seller and physically examine every coin before it is listed on eBay, they still couldn't prevent a seller from substituting another coin at shipping time.
That is why eBay offers a fairly bulletproof Money Back Guarantee to buyers, because it is the only practical way to provide protection to buyers in a cost-efffective way. Just as eBay expects sellers to know what they are selling, they also expect buyers to know what they are buying.
For decades, news outlets have uncovered the "shocking" news that (a) sellers on eBay are cheating buyers, (b) buyers on eBay are cheating sellers; and (c) eBay is used to sell stolen items.
eoma689485
·4 months ago"Fake News"
gurlcat
·4 months ago@eoma689485 It's an atrocity that I'm the only thumbs-up you've gotten. I see a rather sober thread topic and expect the replies to be bitter, but the very first one literally makes me laugh out loud. You deserve the award for Best Internet, May 24, 2026, in my book. 😆
eoma689485
·4 months ago@gurlcat
Not surprising there are 77.3 million people who will never get it. 😀