'm shipping a hi$$$ item below threshhold that is going to a front porch in NYC. Should I ask 4 sig?
Summary: The discussion revolves around the consideration of requiring a signature for the shipment of high-value items, particularly to addresses in NYC where packages might be left on front porches, making them susceptible to theft by 'porch pirates.' reallynicestamps asks for participants' reactions to such thefts, and the conversation also touches on USPS policies regarding signature requirements for insured mail over $500. albertabrightalberta shares that USPS requires a signature for insurance claims over this amount but notes that these signatures are not typically viewable online and thus may not offer protection on platforms like eBay that require online-viewable signatures for items over $750. Participants explore the implications of these policies on seller protection and insurance claims.
So I got an order, pretty expensive ($500+) but below Ebay $750 threshold
shipping to a house in NYC with no secure area, just a porch.
Should I add a signature request anyway? Will the buyer be irritated by the
additional 'unecessary' step since it is not required? I'm doing it no matter what.
Just curious on other opinions and experiences in this regard.
dr.vankmann5
·4 months agoIn order to protect yourself, I would certainly add signature required and let your buyer know before shipping, make sure the buyer confirms receipt of the message.
sosututu
·4 months agoI would contact the buyer to see if they have an alternative address to deliver such as a neighbor. This must be in one of the boroughs because there are no front porches in the city itself. Can you tell me what borough? I lived there for 24 years and am now a frequent visitor.
lb23cavaliersmvp
·4 months agoIf you are sending and insuring for >$400 via USPS it requires signature confirmation. Once sold an item for $399.99 so I added signature confirmation and the buyer left - feedback (ebay removed it).
jonathanbrightlight
·4 months agoUSPS actually states that threshold is $500. There was a recent thread about it.
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/USPS-Mail-Requiring-a-Signature-Accountable-Mail
These items are accountable mail and require a signature and/or payment of fees:
soh.maryl
·4 months agoStill would be interested in knowing if a buyer actually told the seller that his item would be delivered to an unsecure location. Was that "So be prepared for me to open an INR case at the appropriate time".
jonathanbrightlight
·4 months agoYeah, that part would definitely give me pause.
benzexpert
OP4 months agoNo they did not. I just checked on google street view.
Neiighborhood looks nice actually. A far cry of the NYC I knew in my youth
as in much improved.
But I can see it's a single family home in a busy neighborhood with a raised porch
and a package is very easy to see and super accessable not set back from street.
Could disappear in seconds flat. I just want to make sure my customers actually recieve their items.
Not just that I can win a non-receipt case.
I've had a couple. One of them I had a picture from FedEx LOL.
And with street view you could see it was the correct address.
Didn't matter since tracking showed delivered, but I included the photos in my response to Ebay.
So either it was stolen or the recipient lied, a shame if it was stolen.
As far as insurance goes, I don't usually use it, in 28 years on ebay (not all of it as a seller,
12-15 years as a seller) and thousand of packages sent,
I've only used it twice, and the 1st time, for only like $40 and the PO in
Florida gave me such a hard time kept saying it was delivered when
tracking clearly showed they never delivered and lost it.
Finally I called HQ and one day a check just appeared.
F'ing PIA.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months agoAlthough there's no benefit (for ebay protection) for a signature on a $500 item, I'm not sure that the signature obtained for postal insurance purposes would help in cases in which the seller does need s.c.
Per ebay, seller protection for $750+ requires online viewable signature but AFAIK, signatures obtained by USPS for insurance purposes aren't viewable online. It's my understanding that insurance signatures are for USPS benefit and aren't disclosed with tracking.
ETA: Sorry @a_c_green . I was typing and posting before I saw that you said the same thing.
a_c_green
·4 months agoNot exactly. Some clarification is needed here.
If the item has $500 or more of USPS insurance, then USPS will require the carrier to collect a signature at delivery time. However, this is only for USPS purposes, it is not the same as Signature Confirmation, and the signature cannot be viewed on-line.
eBay requires any sale of $750 or more to be shipped with Signature Confirmation, which can be signed for by any adult at the delivery address. It doesn't matter whether the signature is legible, or who signed for it, only that SC was purchased and the package was delivered to the City and ZIP of the Ship-To: address received with the payment.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoThis is trivial, I know, but would still like to know if the buyer actually told the seller that the item would be delivered to "a house in NYC with no secure area, just a porch". ??
kensgiftshop
·4 months agoWhat if some guy walking down the street signs for it and takes off with it?
yuzuha
·4 months agoNo, absolutely do not add Signature Confirmation. It won't accomplish anything useful, but it likely WILL make your buyer mad. A delivery scan is all you need to protect yourself from an INR.
fm2000
·4 months agoAbsolutely put signature confirmation on it. If the package tracking shows delivered, ebay should by policy cover you... but you will still have all kinds of drama to deal with if that package is stolen, including a possible chargeback you would then have to fight. Sure, you could still will all of that, but for $500 why risk it? Think of it this way, losing $500 is losing $500 of food out of the mouths of you and your family. A buyer might be annoyed... but they will be far more annoyed if their $500 package is stolen. You don't have to apologize for protecting yourself. It isn't a $20 just-write-it-off-as-a-business-expense item, it is a $500 item.
Even during covid, when the mailman or deliveryman signed instead of the recipient of the package, they were only signed it when they handed the package off to the recipient. Assuming the driver actually did their job like they were supposed to and followed policy, requiring the recipient to be present at delivery would have still been a good measure to prevent porch piracy.
deltilogical
·4 months agoI lived in the East Village in NYC for 20 years and around 2010 the influx of "traveller" junkies would hit all the lobbies of the buildings to steal packages. The installation of cameras everywhere, and some arrrests by NYPD, totally stopped the problem.
kibble-net
·4 months agoIt is the customer's responsibility to provide a safe location to receive their package. If they routinely get packages stolen they can arrange for a mail hold or redirect.
Some buyers get upset about the inconvenience. And some get upset when they are the victim of porch pirating. You can't please everyone.
I've had one buyer whose package was stolen by a pirate and they even caught them on camera. At that point it is a matter between the buyer, their homeowners or renters insurance, and the police. You are covered by ebay against claims of non delivery.
stainlessenginecovers
·4 months agoSigs don't do a darned thing!! Required over $750; otherwise this happens
a.) signature is unreadable
b.) signature is from any yahoo that accidently 'gets' the item
c.) signature is done by driver, as has been done since Covid
Waste of time and GOOD chance you will upset the customer should they NOT be home and just get a 'tag on the door' (I know I WOULD and HAVE been upset by that).
soh.maryl
·4 months agoDid the buyer actually tell you it would be shipped and delivered to a front porch?
Do buyers usually do that?
tobaccocardyahoo
·4 months agoI have very little experience with porch piracy.
I have some anecdotal experiences from others.
What you are shipping and how it is packaged affects its chances of being stolen.
The likelihood of being stolen rises when it is obvious what's in the package and what's in the package is easy to fence. Might even matter more in a bad neighborhood.
I suspect a plain box with your auto parts might be safe to ship without a signature, but since you feel strongly that you should require one you should. Never take a risk which you know that you do not want to take.
benzexpert
OP4 months agoI used to live in a big city, couldn't leave squat on your doorstep.
I had everything held, either at UPS, Fed Ex, or shipped to PO Box
and held by post office. Never to my door. Now...live in small
town. So far so good. So I know a little about it being on both sides.
I do have a PM I use for returns I can have stuff sent to if we won't be around just the same.
And to theteamsetguy regarding NYC. By Melania you mean Trump?
Oh ok, lets throw some anti trump sentiment into a post that has nothing to do with that. Pffft.
So my impression of NYC was formed in my teens living 50 miles south of it.
It was not a safe place. The bronx was burning, muggings, rapes and multiple killings happened daily. The news spent 2 hours coveriing it all everyy night.
When the power went out it became a war zone.
If someone was killed on the street, people closed their shades and stepped over the bodies.
So yeah, thats the NYC I remember. A cold hard dangerous place.
tobaccocardyahoo
·4 months agoI grew up in NYC. I was in all parts of the city, at all hours of the day and night. It was not that scary. So long as you seemed to have a reason for being where you were you were safe.
It is scarier today, but I am more risk adverse.
reallynicestamps
·4 months agoI would.
But I would also Message the buyer "I have added Signature Confirmation to your shipment for your added protection. There is no extra cost for this service."
Sell it as for the Buyer's good, not for yours.
What eBay requires is that shipments valued over $750 be Signature Confirmed in order to win an INR claim.
EBay's requirements and your needs are not the same thing.
pickapaper
·4 months agoI would definitely put signature required on this package. But be sure to send the buyer a message and give him a heads up so he won't be caught off guard.
If I list a higher dollar item that I know I will want a signature confirmation on, I even put that in the item description "PLEASE NOTE: This item will be sent via USPS Ground Advantage and will require a signature upon delivery. Please be aware of this so that someone will be available to sign for it."
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoI have free shipping and sometimes do priority mail or certified mail.
I never had a buyer complain of how I ship my items.
I always take a photo with postage on it at post office and send that to buyer the next day.
Pretty sure a post office in nearby if it has to be picked up...NYC is rather convenient.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoWhat kind of assurance does a picture of a package provide?
Couldn't I take a picture of a box addressed to the buyer and send something else or nothing at all?
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoAs a seller...we...or as least I get emails 'has my item been shipped yet'?
It usually calms the buyer down seeing a photo of their correct address and postage on it.
We are also graded on 'communication' in feedbacks as a seller from the buyer.
For my priority mail I photo it at the post office still on the scale on the counter with the paid postage on it.
A lot of people do this at the post office.
Every little thing we sellers do helps in case of a potential irate buyer.
I saw a cheap sale price ticket for my favorite coffee at the store...took a photo from my iPhone and bought that coffee.
The cashier didn't know what I was talking about...you have to honor the price that is shown...it was a young dude.
I showed the photo...I requested a manager and got the cheapo price because it is the law.
Coffee can be expensive when you drink it everyday...😄
soh.maryl
·4 months agoThank you. That angle had never occurred to me.
rokkworks
·4 months agoEx NYer here. Where is it going in NYC?
benzexpert
OP4 months ago>>>Where is it going in NYC? <<<
Bronx
rokkworks
·4 months agoWell, the Bronx has many very safe areas, so that isn’t specific enough for reassurance.
I’d Google Earth search the location, maybe, out of curiosity, but sounds like you’d be smart to do the sig conf.
Does the buyer have feedback left for others indicating issues with delivery?
Older houses in the Bronx have mail carriers who use pass keys to enter locked vestibules, so the package would be safe. Fancy Bronx areas are quite safe for packages, and probably have maids or a nanny home at most times.
authentic*vintage
·4 months agoDo what you feel you need to do to protect yourself as a seller.
You are also helping the buyer with an added layer of security, why would they be irritated?
Send a message that says "I have upgraded your delivery with signature confirmation at no extra charge - thank you for your business" or something like that.
yuzuha
·4 months agoBecause many people are not at home during the day to sign for a package. I work full time; if I know I have a package that will be arriving that day, I text my neighbor (a stay-at-home mom) and she will grab it off my porch and hang onto it until I get home. A signature requirement would prevent her from being able to do that and would mean that I would have to waste my time going to the PO to pick it up on my day off.
I would be furious.
theteamsetguy
·4 months ago@benzexpert ,
I can tell you as a buyer it drives me bananas when a seller adds signature required on their packages. I don't want to wait around for the delivery guy or drive to the post office or Fedex depot to sign for the package.
benzexpert
OP4 months ago>>I can tell you as a buyer it drives me bananas
when a seller adds signature required<<<
Appreciate your response from the buyer perspective. BUT....
what if it's is stolen? A large heavy box is not likely to fit in mailbox .
And in a busy and forgive me saying so if I'm mistaken, crime ridden city
there's a good chance the porch pirates will snag it if you're not around.
And if it shows delivered, no one will provide a refund.
That would certainly drive me bananas. What's your take on this?
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoI live in busy San Francisco where I see packages dropped outside of buildings all the time.
And I see empty boxes blowing down the street where maybe there were items in them...😄
theteamsetguy
·4 months ago@benzexpert ,
I've never had someone steal anything from my front door. I've owned this house for more than 20 years and have had well in excess of 1,000 packages delivered to me over the years when I'm not at home.
No every part of NYC is the ghetto. Maybe your buyer lives by Melania.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoOK, but doesn't she live in a big white house somewhat south of NYC?
theteamsetguy
·4 months ago@soh.maryl ,
No she lives in NYC or FL. She apparently didn't like the house on Pennsylvania Avenue.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months agoFor items under $750, you will have no more protection as a seller with s.c. than you have with just tracking showing delivery.
As long as tracking shows delivery, you're protected against a buyer claiming non-receipt.
reallynicestamps
·4 months ago@theteamsetguy
What is your reaction when your parcel is snatched by a porch pirate?
theteamsetguy
·4 months ago@reallynicestamps ,
I'll take my chances. It has never happened in the 20 plus years since I have lived in this house.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoSome people live in houses spread out per territory...chances of a porch pirate going to a farm house or someone living in the middle of nowhere or whatever are slim...😄
But in a big city...packages can be left out the gated fence door of a building complex.
Some delivery people do throw the package over the gated door...my city.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoCan't the buyer contact the PO and ask that the package be held for his personal pickup?
caldreamer
·4 months agoWith all the porch pirates around I would definitely add "signature request".