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Looking for eBay Sellers Scammed By eBay and Buyers (Refunds w/o returned products and stolen fees)
I was recently scammed on ebay by a buyer. The shocking part is that eBay actually helped to facilitate this theft, so I'm curious how widespread of a problem this is on eBay.
Did you know that if a buyer files a dispute and eBay gives them a refund, eBay will not refund your selling fees unless you personally contact them?
Did you know that eBay will side with a buyer of a electronics item that simply says it doesn't work, with zero proof? They will force the refund and not require the buyer to return the item.
I attempted to talk to eBay about these issues and they have blatantly lied about it.
A customer support rep on the phone claimed that the lack of a fee refund might be a bug and they'll let their tech department know about it. This is a downright lie that feels designed to cheat eBay sellers.
eBay support repeatedly likes to tell me how much they are protecting me and other sellers, but this is yet another blatant lie.
If eBay reps read this, I have this question for you: How long do you think you can cheat sellers in this way before they stop using your site entirely? What exactly do you think eBay will be without sellers?
Again, I'm curious if this is happening to other eBay sellers, so I'd love to hear from you about your experiences.
kh-phdan
·2 years agoHello Everyone,
Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue discussing this topic.
Thanks for understanding!
fcny2015
·2 years agoaa buyer asked for return and i accepted it december 11.2024 ....on december 20,2024 the buyer ask for refund, i told her i did not get the item yet beacuse she did return the item outside ebay and she did not profide me with a tracking number . after couple weeks she threating me that she will contact ebay concerning the refund and at that time december 26, 2024 she sent me for the first time the tracking number and she also contact ebay. and as you know ebay issue the buyer a refund .i contacted ebay more than 10 times but the favored the buyer on the sller as you guys know. she even left a negative feed back and when i reply to the negative feed back ebay do not show my reply ....... ebay always side with buyers ..... that's not fair
fcny2015
·2 years agojust let you know guys ....i am still waiting for the retun at this moment ........lost money and item and get negative feed back.................THANKS EBAY
mam98031
·2 years agoI'm sure you meant 2023.
Did her tracking show delivered?
Did Ebay refund from their funds or yours?
mam98031
·3 years agoYou posted your story on another thread and I responded as follows:
I'm not sure what your post has to do with the subject of this thread, but lets see if we can explain a few of the issues you have appeared to run into @rockonretail .
As stated in the policies on returns, if the seller voluntarily refunds the buyer, their selling fees will be refunded. If the seller does not do that and Ebay steps in and forces the refund by the seller, the seller may NOT receive their FVFs back. You can't "steal" something they tell you about in the policies. Because you may not have known that or spent time learning the policy does not change that fact.
You have a No Return Policy in your listings that I looked at. This is just another one of those policy things you need to be more aware of. Sellers return policies must Meet or Exceed the coverage offered buyer in the Money Back Guarantee. It has been that way for many years.
What that means is you can only deny a return IF it is covered in the MBG. The only kind that is a properly filed Buyer's Remorse return. Those you can freely deny without an issue. But when an INAD gets filed, you need to process it. You can deny it but you will end up in the pickle that your found yourself in. Having a No Return policy does NOT prevent REFUNDS. It may prevent returns, but it can't prevent refunds on INADs.
So if you were denying an INAD that was filed and the buyer asked Ebay to step in, they would have ruled for the buyer, forced the refund and likely assumed you didn't want the return because of your policy and the fact you denied the claim.
There is no "hidden section of their website to request a refund of these fees." There is a way to request a refund of fees, but it absolutely isn't hidden.
You did the right thing to file the police report as you are right again, that is your only recourse against the buyer IF you had already contacted them politely and professionally and requested them to return the item. Plus let them know you will provide a return shipping label.
The cost of that label and being nice to the buyer is FAR FAR FAR less expensive and time consuming that to try and go through the legal system to recover your money or product.
fashunu4eeuh
·3 years agoSorry you got the short end of the stick here. Most of those who frequent the forums can sympathize. This result is seen on a daily basis.
I understand why you want to view your experience as theft, but have a problem agreeing with it mainly because it indicates you were victimized and helpless in the situation. Theft means you are free of personal accountability.
But are you? eBay spells out the consequences of a seller’s failure to follow the terms of the Money Back Guarantee. It states in the policy:
â€â€¦If we determine that the seller did not meet their return requirements:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210
Each seller gives their tacit approval of eBay’s rules and policies upon listing their first item. You had a responsibility to know the policies you gave your agreement to follow.
Claiming ignorance as an excuse is no defense. It is difficult, if not impossible, to navigate the platform without doing one’s due diligence as a seller. Learning the rules is also about the only way to mitigate the risks of online selling, because it offers the critical advantage of knowing the consequences of one’s choices on eBay.
stargizmos
·3 years agoI've never heard of eBay giving a full refund without a return. However the buyer can just return random crap, and eBay will most likely not do anything about it. Sold a $600 laptop, eBay claimed they will refund me, but instead decided they don't have to because they "Don't physically handle returns, and therefore have no way of verifying if returns are legit."
You know what I got? Stickers, stickers man, eBay wouldn't even look at the weight of the envelope. Laptop box and all was probably 10lb, stickers not even a ounce.
So yeah never sell electronics on eBay. Use them as gifts, or sell them locally. Because you are going to be out the cost of the item and shipping. You can appeal call thousands of customer service agents, best case they tell you want you want to hear. Worst case they will just hang up on you, or say they are connecting you to a different department and hang up.
I never felt so defeated and depressed. I lost all motivation to sell anything for months.
kensgiftshop
·3 years agoHappens more then you think.
Sellers with No Returns think they can deny an INAD or just ignore it and it'll go away, but it doesn't.
Some sellers have lost 5 to 10 thousand for letting Ebay step in.
theteamsetguy
·3 years ago@rockonretail ,
I never have the problem because I offer free returns and have it set up to automatically approve returns. I don't refund anything until I get the item back.
If you change your listings to offer free returns you will never have the problem again.
Unavailable member
·3 years agoNot happening to me because I don’t allow eBay to step in and do my job for me.
Manage returns, missing items and refunds for sellers
klhmdg
·3 years agoI think you should read about selling and returns.
It is also good for sellers to read and understand the MBG.
If the buyer files a dispute and the seller "leaves it to eBay" the seller most times looses the item, $ and forfeits all fees. The seller also gets a nice "ding" on their account for not handling this themselves.
eBay will not get in the middle of a he said / she said. IF a buyer files a not as described case, the seller has a couple choices - refund in full, offer a partial refund OR do return for refund and send a shipping label.
eBay will not require buyers to prove anything nor with eBay accept your "proof".
CS was wrong. No bug. You let eBay step in and lost you FVF refund too.
If you were able to get someone to give you a courtesy refund, good on you, but dont expect it.
eBay does not protect sellers. #1 rule for selling online, if you cant afford to give it away online is not the place to sell the item.
bamorris
·3 years agoHow did you get to the dispute part. Did the customer open a return request with a claim that it arrived broken?
I've only had returns that were INAD or Arrived Broken, and each time eBay puts the funds on hold until there is a tracked delivery from the buyer back to me.
Lots of ways to get taken on eBay. The buyer could send back a rock instead of the item. Switch out the item. Part of the eBay game is taking on that risk.
I'm sure this happens a lot with Amazon too.
How is eBay supposed to know the difference between a buyer and a seller's complaint?
They're usually will side with the buyer in most cases. I've seen cases where they will side with the seller. But you really need to have your ducks in a row for this to happen. There are resellers on YouTube that describe the process of return fraud and winning disputes.
Return fraud is part of the game. High end electronics, video games, etc has a high rate of return fraud. I would suggest selling less expensive items. Keeping your cost of goods down low. And accept the fact that you're going to get a few bad apples.
I am curious how they went from "Arrived Broken" return request to opening a dispute. Do you not accept returns?
rockonretail
OP3 years agoI don't sell high end electronics on any kind of a regular basis. I really don't even sell on eBay on a regular basis, so I'm not exactly familiar with these hidden details. I closed a business and had a few desktops to liquidate, which is why I was selling this expensive product.
The seller requested the return claiming the item was damaged because he couldn't get the monitor to show anything. He included a picture where it was very obvious that the hdmi cable for the monitor wasn't even plugged in properly.
I attempted to talk to the buyer about the issue to walk them through it. They didn't like that and escalated it to a dispute. I then received an email from eBay saying they were requesting more info from the buyer and then a couple days later they said it was closed in the buyers favor.
Hindsight is always 20/20. I know there are bad apples out there, but it doesn't mean that eBay should operate in a way to make it easy for them to take advantage of inexperienced sellers that don't know any better.
kensgiftshop
·3 years agoEbay provides all the information sellers need to now when selling here, but they can't make sellers read it.
When the buyer files an INAD, you only have three days to accept the return or just refund the buyer.
On the 4th day, buyer can ask Ebay to step in and it never turns out good for the seller.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoIf you refused to accept the return then ebay can step in and refund the purchase without buyer having to return. Do not play this game on here you will loose.
rockonretail
OP3 years agoI understand what you're saying. I'm not disputing that accepting the return would've solved the problem. However, I've been on eBay for 10+ years and never knew it operated in this manner until it was too late to do anything about it.
My problem is the way eBay operates. In this manner, it is definitely designed to cheat sellers.
Why would eBay have "no returns" as an option on a listing when they'll just force it?
It sounds like eBay will cheat sellers whether they use a return option or not. You really think it is fair that eBay will only give you back 50% if the buyer sends you back nothing?
When the buyer requested the return, they upgraded it to a dispute before I had the opportunity to approve or deny it. Once that dispute was opened, eBay wanted me to refund the full purchase including the fees they collected. I simply did not have the extra $246 in eBay fees to refund out of my pocket, so it wasn't even an option for me at the time. Why should a seller be responsible for refunding fees that eBay has collected?
My point here is to consider the way eCommerce operates everywhere else besides eBay.
If you sell an item outside of eBay and receive a PayPal payment that ends in a dispute, PayPal won't force you to refund fees out of your own pocket and they won't force a refund without proof.
The simple fact of the matter is that I am out a very expensive computer PLUS additional fees from eBay. Any justification of why I should accept this loss is just ridiculous. It's simply theft.
monica-sells
·3 years agoSorry for your unfortunate troubles...but you did a whole lot wrong here.......
I can respond to 2 of your statements to try and help you into the new era of online selling.
"...My point here is to consider the way eCommerce operates everywhere else besides eBay..."
I would highly recommend you don't even try to sell on Amazon
"...PayPal won't force you to refund fees out of your own pocket..."
It won't come out of your pocket, but it WILL come out of your credit card on file
BTW
"...I've been on eBay for 10+ years..."
The you know these helpful forums exist for guidance.....
lakefor94
·3 years ago"My point here is to consider the way eCommerce operates everywhere else besides eBay."
I sell on AMZ as well, operates the same there.
If you think any buyer payment thru PayPal cannot be charged back to a seller, you are terribly mistaken.
You should not be selling expensive computers and expecting smooth sailing. That is one to the top scam items on eBay, AMZ and the rest of the similar venues as well.
Sell those locally for cash if that is in your wheelhouse.
kensgiftshop
·3 years agoNo, it's not theft, it's s seller not knowing what they agreed to when they listed the item.
inhawaii
·3 years agobonjourami
·3 years ago"Why would eBay have "no returns" as an option on a listing when they'll just force it?"
The no returns option only refers to remorse returns, dont like it, doesnt fit, found it cheaper, etc. Then the seller has the right to refuse that return.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoI totally understand your frustruation with the No Return policy. A merchant on here can list an item as no returns and anywhere else for that matter. The key here is that although you are allowed to have that on a listing it does not mean that the customer cannot still get a return approved. This goes much further than what ebay can control from a legal standpoint. There are laws in place that say a consumer has the right to return merchandise and they can do this through a reversal of funds through their credit card and payment source. Unfortunately, ebay has not control over that if the customer wants a refund. Having no returns may prevent some buyers from even venturing to return something but ultimately the customer holds the cards so to speak as far as the right to dispute a charge. Ebay can help a lot if you follow best practices on here by accepting returns.
mam98031
·3 years agoA very important aspect of selling on ANY site is to know and understand WHAT the various return policies actually mean. To assume is to get yourself into trouble as you found here. Here is more info, not new info, it has been like this for longer than you have been selling on the site.
The return policies options are as follows.
With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request, if the buyer properly filed the claim. Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping. If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.
On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return. Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.
On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns. If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return. A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping]. Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below. In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.
ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception. Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.
All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!
14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.
For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115
https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-spring/simplified-returns.html#m17-1-tb1
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoWhen people make false claims on here you should always accept a return as your first step. Buyer can tell you anything about the item you sent true or false and the reps at ebay have no way to tell what is the truth. By accepting the return you put the ball in the buyers court. There have been times when a buyer has tried to manipulate making a false claim and try to get a partial refund then keep the item. FOR THESE FOLKS, simply accepting the return might make them want to keep it, or just return it. If you offer free returns and are in good standing on here you can deduct up to 50 percent off the returned item if damaged. If they send you back nothing you can also deduct 50 percent off using accepted and free returns.
cardxcraft
·3 years agoVery good points...the seller must be TRS and offer 30 day returns.
Sellers should definitely be taking advantage of this. If nothing else, you get to keep half of your funds and give the the "buyer" something to think about.
monica-sells
·3 years agoI can only help you answer 2 questions...the others would require hypothesis and conjecture, of which there is no answer that would be correct based on the formation of the statement....
Did you know that if a buyer files a dispute and eBay gives them a refund, eBay will not refund your selling fees unless you personally contact them?
This is incorrect. If the proper procedure is followed by the seller, a full refund is applied without any intervention whatsoever.
Did you know that eBay will side with a buyer of a electronics item that simply says it doesn't work, with zero proof? They will force the refund and not require the buyer to return the item.
If the proper return/refund protocol is followed this, too is incorrect. I give no refunds until the buyer returns my item. I have never been forced to give a refund without a return.
On further review...my response to the other questions is
"...it's possible"
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoI set all my listings on auto pilot for an immediate acceptance of the return request. This saves me from a lot of hassles on here and I do not have to get into any verbiage with a buyer wanting to return something. I only get vocal in a message if the buyer has made a serious error in their assessment of a problem with the item. Then at times that might even resolve the return request. But always, allow them to return the merchandise.