Is ebay heading toward FREE RETURNS?
Auto parts have free returns I read, so is this the direction ebay is going to take for the entire platform?
50 comments
Auto parts have free returns I read, so is this the direction ebay is going to take for the entire platform?
legitspeed
·6 months agoJust a matter of time...
go-bad-chicken
·6 months agoFREE RETURNS SITE WIDE?
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!
If ebay were to implement free returns for the entire site, some categories would loose 95% of their sellers.
Categories like furniture, framed art, machinery, alot instruments, etc.
gurlcat
·6 months ago@go-bad-chicken Those categories would probably lose some listings but I don't know about whole SELLERS unless you meant sellers who sell only those categories, and only large or heavy items within those categories. Because of the risk of return even if the buyer just lies to claim INAD, I think most people who don't want to risk expensive return labels already avoid those categories, while the more fearless ones would continue to list their big heavy items even if all returns were free.
But don't take my speculation on that. We can already see whether free returns destroyed the availability of big heavy auto parts.
Here's the search results for 'bumpers,' filtered by 'free returns.' Over 3.5 million listings.
LOL now imagine shipping an ENGINE. -over 7 million of those! And not just brand new ones but used too. Here's one with 160K miles on it. 400 smackaroos to ship (each way). Yet apparently the seller thinks it's worth the risk.
homerunrally002
·6 months agoI offer free returns now, I believe I’ve been getting more sales, my total number of returns has been pretty low as well
thelongball
·6 months agoWhat just happen to me may fall in line with this conversation. I'm on the reverse end and I have something that arrived to me totally damaged beyond being worth anything. I put in for a return on it and being the first time I ever tried to return something. When I was answering the questions it gave me 2 options and I had to choose one to go to next screen. The choices were in regard to how I receive my refund. I could accept it as a gift card (which it stated I would receive it quicker) or the other option being a traditional refund. The last screen said they would let the seller know.
So does anyone know how this gift card thing works or what the logic is in this. My guess is that when the seller refunds, then eBay keeps the money in house. But someone else maybe knows different. Anyone run into this ?
gurlcat
·6 months agoIt's a fairly new feature where you get the refund as soon as the carrier gives the return label an Accepted scan. eBay floats you the refund from their own money, then the seller "owes" eBay, will pay them whenever the item gets delivered to them.
Now I had one of these (as a buyer) just recently, and even though I chose the regular refund to my payment method (not the gift card), I STILL got it as soon as the label was scanned. I was quite surprised and pleasantly so.
thelongball
·6 months agoOk - thanks for letting me know how that works. First time in at least 15 years that I had to return something. And the good thing that came out of the system is the seller should be able to get their money thru the eBay label / post office insurance as they have loads of proof that it was caused by post office handling, I would think at least.
anjofak
·6 months ago9 billion in loss ...hmmm don't think I would follow that model..
rugerskick
·6 months agoI dont think there is any evidence to assume this occuring across the entire platform. Auto parts is a unique, unusual category of items compared to most other categories. One of the most highest rates of return, also a category where buyers make the most mistakes in ordering incorrect parts either deliberately to run scams, or accidentally because they are inept and don't check what they need before ordering.
chapeau-noir
·6 months agoAll I think would be exacerbated by buyers having NO skin in the game - why should they even bother with honesty or due diligence when they can just throw the merchandise back and leave the seller holding the bag?
I can see "free" returns in markets with low return rates as a service, but this just seems crazy.
gurlcat
·6 months agoBecause someone needing to fix their car doesn't want to receive the wrong part even if they can return it for free, it's a pain in the butt no matter what, and it would just add time to how long before the car is fixed. I dont' recall the details but I know there have been stupid tweaks eBay has done to the category that made it more confusing for buyers in the past, so there's part of the problem. And sure, some buyers may just wrongly believe 'this' model part will also work with 'that' vehicle, and that's their own mistake. But there's nothing about free returns (in itself) that would make them care less about getting the right part the first time.
luckythewinner
·6 months agoI do not think so.
I think eBay has looked at the numbers, and realized there are a lot of returns for 'does not fit' in car parts.
IMHO this is eBay's way to reassure buyers and force selelrs to tighten up their listings.
chapeau-noir
·6 months agoGoing the opposite direction as much of the rest of ecommerce which is tightening up returns due to problems with fraud - yep, that's eBay.
gurlcat
·6 months ago@chapeau-noir "eBay, the Amazon of 10 years ago, TODAY!"
gloryglorygifts
·6 months agoGoodness, I hope not. I've noticed that even the biggest stores online are now putting it on the customers to pay return shipping. I bought a few items last year from places like Hanes and Woman Within and both would accept returns with at least $9.99 deducted for the shipping return. Small businesses, like those on here, can't absorb a high rate of return. Thankfully, I have a teeny tiny amount of returns and on some I can get my cost back from my manufacturer, which helps. I wouldn't want to see something instituted on here that could hurt small businesses. That's counterproductive to why people sell on here.
my_boston_baked_beans
OP6 months agoVery true, and as a very small seller myself I had mentioned that. Some online stores like macy's and Dillard's will subtract shipping cost from your refund. Hard for small sellers. The only thing I can do is add the shipping cost to the item cost and give free shipping and returns, but that can price me higher than others selling the same/similar product.
tobaccocardyahoo
·6 months agoThe sellers who have posted their return rates on this thread have all had returns rates which should be tolerable, whether they have to pay for the return shipping or not.
If your return rate is significantly higher than those suggested, you should ask yourself "why do I have this many returns?" The answer might suggest how you improve your listings or merchandise selection.
I have had no returns in the past year, which is one or two less than I had in other years. I am not a huge seller but my offerings have not hit 1% of sales.
Part of why I have a history of few returns is that my "no returns policy" deters people who do not know what they are buying from ordering from me.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·6 months agoPart of your low return rate is what you sell. On top of that most all of what you sell has a low shipping cost so returns wouldn't hurt your bottom dollar much. As for the stainless steel engine covers guy. They sell in the auto parts category but are far from a true auto parts seller. They specialize in one particular item and its not a mechanical part so it should have very little returns. I don't know the return rate in that category but I am sure its much higher for people that reflect the category in listing a more wide spread inventory of actual parts and not just covers.
Start taking free returns where shipping one way can routinely be $20-$100 and it becomes an issue. Not to mention the cost of shipping boxes add up really quick as well. I spend $1000's each year on boxes alone, many run $5-$10 each. Especially when returns happen much more often because my customers want to return their items because their customers no longer want to repair their appliance.
Also accepting returns is much easier when your items are light and small. Forcing free returns on many items I sell would doom certain items because of bulk and or weight. Counterweights, spin baskets, many gearcases/transmissions, outer tubs, many motors, top panels, doors, drums, etc. Several people's comments here and that comment regularly on threads like these view ebay as a whole from their one size fits all lens and fail to grasp what concept works for them can have a completely different impact on other people.
My one return could have the same financial affect of 40 of yours in loss so its not all about return rate either. Not to mention time invested into what I sell. I have to acquire, fully test, take apart, clean, list then package everything I sell.
My point being, sellers shouldn't have to completely change their inventory and business model a decade down the line simply because ebay decided to yet again move the goal posts. Nor should you want that to happen because then someone like me just might start selling exactly what you sell and bring prices down as well as sales.
gurlcat
·6 months ago@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
Even when I have sold big items I still had free returns on them, and here is why: In the event of a remorse return, yes you pay for the return shipping but you can withhold the ORIGINAL shipping from the refund (obviously this requires the listing to have a separate shipping price, not "free shipping). The buyer is way more likely to choose an honest remorse reason when all they know is they won't have to pay for a return label no matter what, unlike with 'no returns' or 'buyer pays return shipping.' -With either of those, buyers are more likely to make up a lie and claim INAD, just to avoid paying for the return label. Then you pay for that AND have to refund their original shipping.
Then consider the buyers who don't even know an INAD reason can be something invisible like "smells bad" or vague like "seems cheaply made" (because a bot will automatically accept ANY claim and prompt the seller to issue a refund as soon as the Delivered scan occurs, regardless of whether the INAD complaint was true or not). -And what do these ignorant buyers do, when they assume the claim must be substantial and substanTIATED? Purposely damage the item to MAKE a complaint true! -Then you're either paying for return shipping and giving a full refund (including original shipping) and having an item worth less than it was before, or (if you can see they thoroughly destroyed it), just giving them a full refund without return, including the original shipping.
Also: if you have free returns and they send the item back in lesser condition, you can withhold up to 50% of the refund.
Also: A buyer seeing "no returns" or "buyer pays return shipping" is more likely to sidestep eBay altogether and file an INAD chargeback. -Virtually impossible for a seller to win, and no item back. But if you have free returns, eBay pays it for you as a courtesy.
Also: You don't get service metric strikes for remorse returns, only INAD's, which you get more of when remorse buyers lie to claim INAD's.
So no matter how you slice it, even with big heavy items, you still come out on top with free returns. And that's in addition to getting more sales, simply because free returns is a criteria that buyers weigh when they're deciding which seller to buy from. There's even a left-screen filter for it.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·6 months agoAbout two years ago ebay did away with being able to keep original shipping on bogus INAD returns unless they allow it on free returns. It was never released in any update or anything. When I questioned ebay about removing the ability to do so they claimed it was being treated as a glitch so they never had the need to release a statement on removing the ability to do so.
I ship large items ALL the time (almost daily) and in no way, shape or form will you EVER come out ahead offering free returns. I'll use one of my most recent sales for a large item. Its an outer tub, shipped from NY to CA. Item cost $109.99 shipping cost $100 and some change. If the buyer gets it and claims a false INAD explain to me in what world do I come out ahead, even using the 50% refund tool. In my world this is how it shakes out.
I am out the $100+ shipping charge. I now have to pay (if I want the item back) $100 to have it returned. At best I claim the 50% refund tool so I recoup $55. But I am now out ebay fees as I believe if you do a 50% refund ebay still keeps a percentage of the fees. I am also out the box which can run $5-$10 which obviously after 2 trips is no longer useable. I am not exactly sure how much fees ebay gives back on a partial refund but lets say its half. With my promotional rate at 2% (needed because I sell highly competitive items) I am out roughly 7% of the $109.99 selling price and $100 shipping cost.
Out $200 shipping
Out $15.75 in fees (just a ball park since I am not certain how ebay refunds for partial refunds)
Out $5 box.
I get back $55.
On top of my time, assuming I get the item back in sellable condition I am out a total of $165.75. In what world does anyone come out ahead? Even when ebay allowed sellers to keep the initial shipping charge you still aren't coming out ahead. Even if you are allowed to keep initial shipping charge if you accept free returns I'm still out $65.
What makes it worse is heavier, large items are much more likely to arrive damaged when returned. Why? Because most buyers in my experience couldn't careless about packaging the item as well as the seller did.
gurlcat
·6 months ago@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d And you think it's harder to claim a false INAD with no returns? It's actually MORE likely, because they don't have a remorse reason option.
I am saying with free returns you're more likely to get HONEST remorse returns, and be able to get your item back without paying both shipping directions.
lakefor94
·6 months agoI dig free returns on my listings. I rarely ever get a false INAD. The 10% reduction in FVF's pays for all return cost and my premium store fees. It is a no Brainer for my business.
I do realize that don't work for all business models.
I also like to stay away from INAD'S to not run up the hits in Seller Metrics. An extra 5% or 6% in fees would be a bummer.
Addendum: I sell mainly in the computer and networking categories. Free returns also garners more sales for me. Folks don't hesitate to buy. I win sales from other sellers that don't accept returns.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·6 months agoI never said no returns I was referring to Free Returns vs Buyer Pays. Again I deal with these items a LOT. I don't think you do. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
The only difference between Free Returns and Buyer Pays is for honest buyers. If your policy is set at "buyer pays" and an honest buyer files remorse return I can deny the claim. I keep the sale and I am out nothing. A dishonest buyer is getting their money back regardless and not paying a dime of shipping to send it back regardless of your return policy. A dishonest buyer (unless they are stupid or new to ebay aren't filing a remorse return and eating $100 shipping, even if you have Free Returns.
my_boston_baked_beans
OP6 months agoPerhaps, the best way to deal with returns is to allow them, but with the stipulation that *buyer pays* for the return except in cases of *not as described* that needs to go through ebay process. If you allow free returns buyers will take advantage whether there is a legitimate reason for the return or not. It's Free so the color is not exact, there is a lose thread, the plate is the wrong shape, and so forth.
Unfortunately, many buyers take advantage of the NASD to get a free return.
tobaccocardyahoo
·7 months agoCar parts is a growth area of Ebay. Car Parts are a high returns category. Free returns is a major reason to buy parts on Ebay.
Other categories are not high growth, some are high return rate, others are not, the likelihood of them increasing Ebay revenue and profit is lower.
nh_sales_lv
·7 months agoI don't mind Returns as long as the Return is Faulty. Car parts tend to have a lot of return rates.
I purchase some items as a lot and never bother to list them like Mass Air Flow sensors. I've tried but got hit immediately with a Return. I do not believe my sensor was faulty in any way. His Computer or Harness is Broken and he didn't have the technical capability to correctly Diagnose it.
I threw it in the trash because it came back with greasy prints. Fine my man keep ordering more MAF Sensors and keep opening boxes and keep returning. I'm out of that Category. I actually dislike selling things with Sensors attached to them but I have to or I'd be out of Business. Well at least I can exclude MAF Sensors.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·7 months agoI wouldn't mind cutting a good chunk of my competition out.
That would certainly send the noobs for the hills and keep new sellers from giving ebay a try.
mamacassidy
·7 months ago@grand-and-glorious-purpose wrote: "That would certainly send the noobs for the hills and keep new sellers from giving ebay a try."
I believe this is another way that it would hurt the ebay platform.
A lot of ebay users are older (and some even dying out), so if ebay wants to keep going and stay relevant, they need to attract new sellers adding new stuff. In fact, that marketing I mentioned before seems to be specifically geared toward the younger crowd in order to re-brand ebay as the "cool" place to buy used clothes and shoes.
Making it more difficult or more costly will just force all the new/ young/ trendy sellers to use other platforms or to even create new platforms, and ebay will just be remembered as their grandparents' website.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·7 months agoThe one size fits all buyer centric returns with no seller protection is not going to work on that crowd.
ebay has pretty much lost their chance with gen z.
My bonus children use and prefer etsy, poshmark, depop and several others before they begrudgingly search ebay.
The way ebay pretends to new sellers that you can fight a return is a self inflicted wound.
You see it here every single day. New sellers PO'd that ebay is stealing from them.
Hell I've been selling here since Clinton was president and I'm still unhappy with ebay letting people steal.
gurlcat
·7 months ago-YES, that's what eBay should address better. Even though I think most sellers should have free returns I wouldn't advocate a sitewide mandate of it. However, they really should address the "No returns" misconception, not just for sellers but for buyers. Any non-wonk sees that phrase and thinks "All sales final" but that's not what it really means at all (as we wonks are aware).
I don't know what the solution is ... maybe as simple as re-labeling it something else. Even something confusing would be better than misleading, because with confusion you get people seeking clarifcation rather than just wrongly believing something.
lakefor94
·6 months agoEbay does not need unhappy sellers as there will always be an endless supply of newbies to go along with the existing seller base that has/will adapt.
Ebay will eventually add more buyer happy buttons and won't care about the sellers that don't care to follow along.
Sooner the better.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·6 months agoThat is 100% why there are dozens of challengers. There is not an endless supply of sellers, not with the learning curve ebay has for them.
Ebay WAS the choice, now ebay is A choice and not always the first one.
My middle child is 15 and she would rather die than search for something on ebay.
She would rather pay double for a Juicy Y2K tracksuit on depop than look uncool by shopping on ebay.
flexmotoring
·6 months agoAuto parts seller here. Return % is closing in on doubling since forced returns. Overall it will cost us $1000s in loses from covering half postage and now having all open box items. Return rate jumped from 4 percentage and change to 7 percentage and change and closing up to 8 percentage. Once more buyers find this out, I expect it to go higher.
lakefor94
·7 months agoThe next obvious step will be all sellers having to accept 30-day returns for any reason.
I doubt they will go to all Free Returns. Remorse returns would still require the buyer to pay return shipping.
Just a matter of time.
mamacassidy
·7 months agoI have no idea why ebay chooses some policies, however, I have a really hard time believing they would institute free returns across the board.
There are way too many sellers here that offer pre-owned clothing/ shoes/ accessories for cheap that would totally have to close shop if they had to pay for returns.
And ebay has been doing marketing lately with ads saying "pre-loved fashion" and "buy what you love, sell what you don't", so I don't think they are looking to get rid of or downsize this group.
Unless they can do some accounting to figure that ebay pays half the return shipping cost and the seller pays half. Or they can make some deal with USPS for some Super-duper cheap return shipping labels. Or some other way to offset the cost to the seller. (And of course, in all these cases, sellers would just have to raise all the prices which would result in fewer overall sales, so the amount of money ebay loses vs. new buyers it brings in would probably be a wash).
golfingaddict
·7 months agoI offer free shipping so if eBay made free returns mandatory, I would have to seriously rethink free shipping.
I only had 2 returns in the last year. In both cases, I had to throw away the product. One was return reeking of cigarette smoke and the other was out of package and potentially used, unsellable.
I sure hope that they do not make free returns mandatory, but I would not be surprised.
stainlessenginecovers
·7 months agoI sell in Auto Parts and since this change (using July 1st, 7 months)
I've had 991 sales and 26 returns for a
2.6% return rate.
About the same as each year since 2011.
my_boston_baked_beans
OP7 months agoI guess if your return average is low not impacking the overhead than it is not an issue. For me, to come up with the $$ for free refunds I would be losing my shirt. For larger sellers they can right this off, but for the small seller every penny counts. My sales are few and far between so there would be no income to justify free anything.
inhawaii
·7 months agoMy return rate is less than 1%.
I don't offer free returns but of course have to accept INAD returns.
I see so many sellers here on the boards say that if you don't offer free returns that customers will lie and make a INAD return. I am not seeing that happen.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·7 months agoOnly 33% of my returns are phony.
That's actually trending lower than the last few years.
stainlessenginecovers
·6 months agoI think most of those 'board threads/posts' are saying if you don't offer ANY type of return (buyer pays is ok) then it may spur a forced INAD.
Although I've had INAD's just because the buyer knew the system and gets 'free' return shipping. I would have NEVER done the 'Free Return Shipping' had ebay not forced in on what I sell. But it doesn't seem to be any 'more' returns just because I pay return shipping.
theteamsetguy
·7 months ago@my_boston_baked_beans ,
I already offer free returns and I consider myself a small seller. It would level the playing field.
I get a handful each month no big deal I just relist it when I get it back.
asset_liquidators
·6 months agoYeah because paying for the return of a cheap 5oz baseball card is the same as paying for the return of a 50lb item. 🤔
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·7 months agoMandatory free returns on everything? I seriously doubt it.
heckofagame
·7 months agoI have been offering free returns for about 4 years. I think I have had maybe 6 total. I'm sure it depends on what you are selling as some categories are more prone to returns than others.
kibble-net
·6 months agoThis.
I can count on both hands how many "free returns" I've had where it was nothing more than a buyer changing their mind. And I've been selling on here since the dial up days.
Everyone loves to make money from a business, but it seems taking care of your customers is becoming a lost art.
my_boston_baked_beans
OP7 months agoIn my opinion it would be ebay's way of trying to pull in more buyers, but at the same time this would get rid of many little sellers like me as I can not afford this. This maybe another ploy to be more like Amazon Prime.
eze-right1
·7 months agoI'm believing it's an option, however what eBay does, eBay does, especially if it's beneficial to the customer or eBay.
"Business...the American way."
- Queensryche
kibble-net
·6 months agoNot sure if the quote applies here. This is actually a pro-customer move. Put yourself in the customer's shoes, which do you prefer?
caldreamer
·7 months agoI sure hope not...