I'm a victim of partial refund extortion. Ebay doesn't care?
UPDATE: eBay does care. After initially getting denied, upon further review under appeal to customer service, eBay does agree with me that I was a victim of extortion, and they do care, and the negative feedback was removed.
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Short version is I sold an item, and the buyer had it forwarded overseas. Finally the item arrives, and the buyer lists things allegedly wrong with it. Decides one part must be replaced and demands a partial refund in a message to me. He says that if I don't offer a partial refund, I will get negative feedback.
Since the extortion policy clearly states buyers can't "threaten to use feedback ... in an attempt to force sellers into meeting their demands."
That's exactly what happened - in the eBay messaging system. I reported the buyer and referenced the threats and the feedback. But eBay says the negative feedback doesn't violate their policy. So I'm trying to appeal, but they don't seem to care. 26+ years of using the platform, and it is my first negative feedback. I don't understand how they think the policy works - what should I have done differently? The only alternative is to cave into extortion.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoJust a note - I read the feedback extortion policy here:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-policies/feedback-extortion-policy?id=4230
It says that feedback extortion is against policy, but nowhere does it state that removing negative feedback would be a consequence of someone violating that policy. It simply says that eBay "may take action".
Even if you cave to the extortion, you could still get a negative feedback.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoIf the fan in this item is usually quiet, and you did not test long enough for the unit to heat up, it is totally possible that you shipped an item with a defective fan. $22 to replace the fan is a bargain.
Buyers encounter Ebay sellers who resist any post sale adjustments and never admit any fault. They take that out on other Ebay sellers, like this one did you.
You need to translate the message into something less insulting because Ebay sellers breed buyers like you had. And you do not seem to be unlikely to create a buyer like you had.
Multiple posters point out that you as a seller need to be professional in all communications. They are correct, not only because of its effect on the sale in question, but because of what it does to other sales on this site.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoI've gotten a lot of good advice. If the $22 refund request had been straight forward and did not include a threat and the request for even more $ before I had even responded, I think I would have reacted differently. But eBay seems to have evolved to where you can't change or easily delete feedback. I never intended to leave positive feedback for this buyer. I did intend to reply to the feedback he left me. I don't think I can fix this now.
krazzykats
·2 years agoIt may have seemed aggressive, but $22 wasn't a lot to ask to replace the fans, actually about right by installing it themselves. That is to assume the customer is correct, which eBay does.
So, maybe they don't speak English and are using some kind of an AI translator that makes it sound aggressive?
12345jamesstamps
·2 years ago"freight forward" is perfectly legal. You live in Florida and probably a lot of buyers will use you in the future because the freight forward address is in Florida. I have had no problems with it. Your lucky to live close to the address where the buyers will receive their items quicker.
eBay usually won't look at emails back and forth about anything anyone...its like the "he said she said" thing.
Leaving that feedback...you should of waited...I understand you were probably real mad at the buyer but always wait to respond.
And honestly, it looked like a good sale...and $22. didn't seem like a lot to refund in my opinion. I would have given the refund without hesitation.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoThat's good advice. I will be more thoughtful in the future. At this point, I think the best I can do is learn from this episode.
frankenhobbit
·2 years agoYou've also left a 'negative' positive feedback for the buyer, which is against eBay policy. That's not going to help you at all.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoI didn't intend for it to be that way. I hit the "report a buyer" button which is what I thought was the correct response to an extortion attempt. And I replied to his negative feedback using the reply feature. I never tried to leave positive feedback.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoI'm not sure how I messed that up. I saw the "reply" button and I didn't recognize that would be the outcome. Probably my inexperience - in 26+ years with an ebay account, this was my first negative feedback ever. So I must have messed up.
In any case, with the appeal ruled in my favor, eBay has removed all of the feedback, including my reply, so things are solved and I've learned to be more patient and look for better solutions.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful suggestions.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoThat is not negative feedback, its honest feedback and it is allowed. If a buyer is committing fraud, I am quick to point that out in feedback, ebay will not remove it. Usually the scamming buyer removes their feedback once I point out what they did.
Likewise, scammers aren't going to report/request your feedback be removed when they know they're committing fraud and violating ebay's policies, they will sooner try and steer clear of ebay as much as possible.
ebay also has a legal obligation to honor feedback that is honest. Removing it because they don't like it would be defamation, which is absolutely a violation of the law.
positivetrek
OP2 years ago@gamersbaystore , the threat wasn't in the feedback itself. You seem to be confused about the policy. The extortion policy clearly states buyers can't "threaten to use feedback ... in an attempt to force sellers into meeting their demands."
In any case, in my appeal, I clearly called out the threat in the communication, which eBay can see and verify in their messaging system.
There is no "obligation" to honor feedback in a blackmail situation. The threat makes the feedback inherently dishonest because it basically says - you meet my demands, or else I will write something that hurts you.
Now that the appeal is completed and ruled in my favor, this matter is resolved. As I noted in several replies above, many members of this community have helped me to understand how I might have handled this differently and better despite the threat. That has made this a valuable learning experience. In my 26+ years of having an eBay account, this was the first time dealing with this situation, and I will benefit from the experience and wisdom of others.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoMy statement wasn't made in regards to the extortion policy, rather in regards to your response in feedback.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years ago“what should I have done differently? The only alternative is to cave into extortion.â€
Sometimes it is best to give the buyer the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, i would have handled this differently. That includes never bad-mouthing a buyer, particularly in Feedback. Never.
It is important to remain professional at all times, most especially when the buyer claims there is a problem. Denigrating your trading partner only serves to lower your prestige in the eyes of prospective buyers. They are the only Feedback audience that matters—not the buyer, or other sellers, etc. And a seller showing emotions like anger, defensiveness, blaming, name-calling, etc. often gives the impression that, should there be a concern with a transaction, you cannot be relied on to solve it.
You mention in the listing description that the fans can be loud. Buyer states fans are broken. That appears to be two different things. Delicate internal components can easily get damaged in transit, even with the most careful of packing.
Can you please publish the conversation you had in Messages, with any identifying info redacted? Did they also ask for a partial refund outside of the eBay system? If the message, as you say, threatens negative feedback unless you provide a partial refund, you have a cut-and-dried case for removal. It may take several tries reaching customer service to find a willing rep. (Do not call the overseas phone customer service. They have no authority to fix the problem and are known to give bad advice.)
Btw, an overseas buyer using a domestic address is not an indication of scamming. It is allowed by eBay. Nothing nefarious about the practice.
Final thought: Consider that $22 to replace a broken component seems a small reasonable amount, certainly not worth pulling a scam for. Does not mean they won’t, it’s just that scammers can easily get the entire item for free by doing a credit card chargeback and claiming Item Not As Described. There are much easier and more effective ways to scam.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoThat's a very thoughtful response. I think I will consider your advice and learn from this unfortunate episode. It's probably the threat being first and the very aggressive nature that perhaps threw me off. I took it as a clear violation of terms and didn't consider some of the other points you made.
heckofagame
·2 years agoIf the buyer used a freight forwarder, then the MBG is voided.
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agoFor the buyer to only ask for $22 refund tells me they are an honest buyer based on the price of the item you sold.
What does the buyer's profile and all feedback look like? I would have to guess 100%.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoI got a demand for $22 and the extortion threat as the opening, followed by it should be more than $22 because he forwarded it overseas. So this was clearly a bunch of red flags that violated the policies is how I perceived it. I thought this would be a lot more straightforward. If it had come in without the threats, I would have been open to the idea of a partial refund - but the whole thing was insured as well. Except because he shipped it overseas, none of the insurance would be in effect anymore.
Is there an option to leave a buyer negative feedback? I don't see it. I only get "positive" or "report buyer".
dentalsales4u
·2 years agoSellers haven't been able to leave a negative for a buyer since 2008.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoWhen you state that the buyer "had it forwarded overseas", are you saying that you shipped to a freight forwarder who then sent the item on to the buyer's address?
If so, are you aware that the seller is only liable until the item arrives at the freight forwarder's address?
Any messages between you and the buyer are not part of feedback. You claimed FB extortion. There was no evidence of extortion in the FB so eBay refused removal.
Did you at any point suggest to that buyer that he open an item not as described case?
Frankly, your reply to that feedback paints a worse picture of you than the FB he left you.
dentalsales4u
·2 years agoThe extortion doesn't need to be in the FB.
I had a neg removed due to a message from the buyer to me stating if I didn't refund him a certain amount of money, he would leave bad feedback.
He did leave the neg. I contacted eBay, they looked at the "threat" (extortion) message of bad feedback if I didn't refund them money. The buyer is demanding something that wasn't part of the listing. The feedback was gone within a matter of minutes.
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years agoSame here -- I refused the partial refund extortion attempt, and Ebay compared the listing with the messages, determined I was right and the buyer wrong, and immediately deleted the feedback.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoUPDATE: It took a few days and some appeals, but I eventually reached the same result.
eBay does care.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoExtortion doesn't have to be part of the feedback itself - the policy is that you can threaten negative feedback to have your demands met.
He forwarded it to himself overseas, so it was past the time that he could open a case probably. Perhaps that would have allowed us to resolve things if it had been possible.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoand @positivetrek , the feedback you left for the buyer is a violation of ebay's feedback policy and if reported, YOUR account will get dinged for the violation.
positivetrek
OP2 years agoI'm unsure how to correct that. I used the reply to feedback option. I didn't pick it being positive.
krazzykats
·2 years agoYou are only allowed to leave buyers positive feedback. Anything else could be a violation on your part.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoI wasn't referring to the reply you left in response to the feedback the buyer left for you.
I'm talking about the feedback you left for the buyer. But both your response to his feedback and your own are very unprofessional and are turnoffs for your future buyers.
dentalsales4u
·2 years agoTry contacting eBay via their Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness
Click message. List the situation. They will respond asking you to verify who you are and then go from there.
They don't respond back immediately, but will.
They are better trained US reps.
Good luck to you
positivetrek
OP2 years agoUPDATE: eBay does care.
After initially getting denied, upon further review under appeal to customer service, eBay does agree with me that I was a victim of extortion, and they do care, and the negative feedback was removed.
My feedback reply was also removed. Many helpful folks in this forum pointed out that I should have resisted the desire to respond. With eBay's intervention, everything is now as I had expected it to turn out.
I appreciate everyone's efforts here to help me with advice. I have learned some important and constructive lessons through the efforts of this community. Thank you.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years ago@positivetrek
Hurray! So glad that this was resolved to your benefit!!
You accepted some hard criticism here with such good grace. Quite a rare quality. Good job!!