I think I am being scammed...
I bought sunflower seeds from a relatively new seller, 20 feedbacks and 90 sales approx. Seller provided a tracking number which has proved to be bogus and I have confirmation from my local PO that the items were delivered but not to me. I opened a case and tonight it was closed in the sellers favor with no refund to me. I am beyond angry. I so want to say I will never buy here again. I am also so mad that this has happened that I have already appealed.
This seller has all kinds of weird stuff with the account. Duplicate order numbers. Minimum profile. Says Great Britain but "ships' out of New York. Sells pet food and seeds and expensive phones with GDP...so England for the phones and US for the rest.
When I opened the case I got the blah blah we'll take care of you and ship more out, then radio silence. I asked 4 times for a REAL tracking number and got no response. Then POOF the case was closed tonight. No refund, no seeds. I noticed in feedback another buyer left a neutral asking where their seeds are. I believe most of the feedback is also false. If you all can see this seller, the order numbers are duplicated right and left. How does that happen? I've never seen anything like this. It just feels like a scam account...
I left negative FB but it hasn't shown up yet. Can that be manipulated too? Like the feedback and the duplicate order numbers? Feels like the Twilight Zone here.
I have appealed but not sure what to do next. It's not a lot of money. It's the point. This seller is a thief.
dhbookds
·11 months agoNo way to know if the seller was "put on a list"........since ebay "ate the refund", I would bet ebay has him on a watch list.......
rokkworks
·11 months agoGlad to hear you got your money back, moondogblues! I hear you on the lack of accountability for the seller. Maybe I’m too much of an optimist, but I think eventually the seller will be tossed if not prosecuted. But - most likely he’s in another country and will evade.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoHi BUY...yes, I will get my money back, but the scammer gets to skate.
On the good side, I got referred back to Chewy...who's sunflower seed price was higher than eBay and is now lower, so yay. I love the auto-ship function.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoReading on-line about a scam called the pig-butchering scam. Has to do with luring people into investing in fake cybercurrency. I personally know someone who had an on-line relationship and ended up giving her all of his savings. Incredible to me how low people can go to get money.
buyselljack2016
·11 months agoSaw that Chewy "auto-ship, but I don't have a lot of seed storage containers so would have to be careful with that, and would also have to keep an eye on the "currently reduced" price.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoGood idea...Maybe Chewy is feeling the price wars from here and also the big box stores. I also checked out the 'river', very expensive there. No deals at all. We have a basement so can store lots of bags down there. Love our little fuzzy-faces.
I am sooooo happy that eBay saw the light and gave us a refund. Hopefully they will put measures in place to stop the thefts. And I can see why it goes on, I was almost at the giving up stage but I'm pretty stubborn and this seller p'd me off. Hubs told me that eBay makes money off these scams no matter what so that could be a reason they turn a blind eye to it.
bonjourami
·11 months ago"Hubs told me that eBay makes money off these scams no matter what so that could be a reason they turn a blind eye to it."
No doubt this seller is on Ebays radar now, and thats good. If enough buyers complain and file actual cases against him, thats the only way Ebay has to zone in on these scammers. Each case filed results in a defect for the seller, and too many defects lead to a permanent suspension.With 16 million sellers, and almost two billion listings, I think thats the best Ebay can do.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoSo I guess the seller (scammer) gets to do it again...
moondogblues
OP11 months agoThough I do still have the fraud case open with the USPS. Maybe they can so something about this 'seller'.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoWe've sent you a refund
Hi ,
After reviewing this case, we decided to refund you for this purchase. We did this because we determined that the item was stolen during delivery.
We're sorry you had a problem with this purchase.
A refund of US $41.98 will be credited to your original payment method. It may take 3 to 5 business days for the refund to be completed.
buyselljack2016
·11 months agoSounds like things will turn out OK after being put through the stress of it. Hope it does.
I had no input, but thanks to your misfortune I was alerted to an opportunity to get some seeds for my chips and birds.
I have in the past looked at the "Pennington" seeds from various sources, but the cost was much higher than the current price. Current price is $4.50 cheaper than my nearer TSC (Royal Wing seeds) and $0.65 cheaper than a more distant one, and in either case these "Pennington" seeds will be delivered to my door without me driving anywhere and I won't have to carry the bags from the back of the store nor load and unload
Sorry you had to endure the stress of your transaction, but thanks for making me aware of the opportunity to get seeded from the comfort of my computer chair. One of my FedEx drivers (Suzanne) will even put packages inside the garage door.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoTo who ever gave me the tip about Chewy, thanks!!! Just started an auto-ship for them. I love them anyway.
rokkworks
·11 months ago@moondogblues
Another proof of non-delivery to you -
IF you have USPS Informed Delivery, the package would have NOT been shown on your incoming packages. A printout of this might be wise to keep as another proof it wasn’t delivered to you.
@ittybitnot
That is really concerning that eBay may have blocked NAD after INR.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoI am not sure if we have Informed Delivery. I thought maybe so under hubs's account but for some reason his account was disabled, not sure why. I had to create my own in order to open a Missing mail, and now Mail Fraud. So it won't help here but I will sign up for it now. We do have it for FedEx and UPS.
pickapaper
·11 months ago@moondogblues
I just googled "black oil sunflower seeds" and there are a lot of major stores that sell 40 lbs for about $21.44: Wallyworld does and ships. Chewy does and new customers get a $20 gift card and free ship on first order; autoships get an additional 5% off. There appears to be a lot of retailers that sell for reasonable prices and will ship.
The feedback you posted for this seller does look okay; it's possible he just found out about this scam and is just trying it out or he may have been waiting until he got some good feedback built up before he started scamming people. Who knows?
As far as your current situation, a payment source chargeback is still your best recourse.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoHi pick...I didn't leave any feedback for this seller...and per johnathon I can't because of the case I opened? Do I have that right?
moondogblues
OP11 months agoI'm going to start with the USPS fraud department this morning to get this guy on their radar and get a case number. Then we'll try the Facebook eBay customer reps. Per our postmistress eBay needs to step up to the plate and help put an end to these scammers. PayPal would be next if we can't get a courtesy refund from eBay...our local bank/debit card is a last resort because they do NOT like to give out money. They will say it was our fault for buying voluntarily. Been down that route with them.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoWell...that 800 USPS fraud number is a waste of time. I never got to talk to an agent/investigator at all. The prompts tell you to leave your name and address and they will send a letter (form?) to fill out. Not much help...
rokkworks
·11 months agoHere’s the online USPS fraud reporting link, on the left side…
https://www.uspis.gov/report
And here is the form to fill out - no need to wait for their snail mail.
https://ehome.uspis.gov/fcsexternal/default.aspx
moondogblues
OP11 months agoThanks! Same form on both links so I only filled out one. Hopefully something will get done. EBay really needs to step up to the plate about the scams/fraud...or people will stop buying here. Didn't they used to have a Fraud Dept? And weren't there employees who would come here to help out with problems? What happened to that?
moondogblues
OP11 months agoI am going brain dead...where do I find the SNAD button. I go to money back guarantee and all I find is INR and returns, nothing about not as described.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoPick...I misread about the FB...thought you meant mine, lol. That's why I ordered from this 'seller', all good feedback, lots of seed sales, and way good price.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoMy order was for 80 pounds of bird seed. The 'tracking' number the seller added to the order was for a package that weighed 1 pound and 7 ounces. It was delivered in my zip code. This seller is a thief and hopefully the USPS investigators will work with eBay to get him NARU'd. These people should be in jail.
christworks
·11 months agoPlease get out of your head what sellers can do. We cannot manipulate feedback, keep feedback from showing up, or any of the other things you say "boggle" you. You keep saying the order numbers repeat. You, as a buyer, and we as outsiders cannot see order numbers. You can only see your order number. You may see item numbers in their feedback, but they are not duplicate. Item numbers can be similar though.
The feedback was removed, perhaps even automatically, because the case closed against you. There isn't anything you can do about that.
You are on the right track with the post office. I realize the clerk was trying to be helpful by telling you to contact eBay through Facebook. I don't think contacting eBay though those means will help you. They've already ruled against you. You coming back later without evidence of any wrongdoing will result in them telling you, "I'm sorry, but this case has already been closed." You can tell them what the clerk told you, but that isn't evidence. You need something by them on USPS letterhead that clearly states the package tracking number, the weight and size if known, and where it was delivered. You filing a fraud report with USPS would also serve as supportive evidence. Still, your bank or credit card is who you need to speak with about all of this. That's where your recourse will be.
You have pointed out a lot of red flags. Did you notice any of this before you bought from this seller?
A side note, I feed the critters, too. If you have a well-known massive general merchandise store somewhere near you, you can get a 40llb bag of sunflower seeds for about $20. I think the 20lb bag is around $15. Sometimes they even have these on sale. Even the smaller versions of these stores have them, and if not, talk to the store manager and they can get them. I think you mentioned HD, so you no doubt have a one of these stores near you somewhere.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoHome Depot price is 24.97 for 40 pounds of seed. I just paid 71.40 for 3 bags here. Would have been 74.91 at HD and a 40 minute drive one way.
As for order numbers:
Results Pagination - Page 1
Member Quick Links
Suggested Next
moondogblues
OP11 months agoOrder numbers are not easily found, but they are there.
buyselljack2016
·11 months agoconfusing order # with "listing #" ?
Listing # remains the same on a multiple quantity available listing.
moondogblues
OP11 months ago"Listing # remains the same on a multiple quantity available listing."
Yup, I get that now...thanks.
gone.c-33
·11 months agoThose are item numbers, not order numbers and they appear multiple times because the listing was a multiple quantity listing.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoHmmmm...looking at that list, maybe those are item numbers, not order numbers. That's why the duplicates, and makes sense now.
But sellers can manipulate feedback by blocking the buyer. That happened to me. And the feedback button disappeared. I was blocked before I opened the case. This 'seller' knows what they are doing.
jonathanbrightlight
·11 months agoNo, as stated before, the seller blocking the buyer has no impact on your ability to leave feedback. There was another reason that has been well covered.
moondogblues
OP11 months ago"You have pointed out a lot of red flags. Did you notice any of this before you bought from this seller?"
There were no red flags...all positive FB at the time. The neutral there now was not there before. I am very frustrated. I can't even get a case number from USPS (have to wait for a letter?) and our local postmistress said a piece of paper from her would not help either. Facebook seems like a no go without a case #.
Thanks for the tips on where to find cheaper seed...I loathe WalMart but may price compare. Love Chewy and have auto-deliveries from them but seeds are more there.
ten_o_nine
·11 months agoRead at this post from 2020.
Solved: Re: fake tracking from seller - The eBay Community
inhawaii
·11 months agoI've heard of this scam before.
It's international ring of sunflower seed scammers.
They get people to buy a $4 pack of sunflower seeds, then use a bogus tracking number to show delivery.
Because the tracking shows "delivered" you will most likely lose a INR case.
I hope you didn't spend too much.
pickapaper
·11 months ago@inhawaii
See post #20. OP said he paid about $40 for 80 pounds of sunflower seeds. (More than a packet.)
moondogblues
OP11 months agoI also see that my feedback was either blocked or rejected and the FB button is gone. Seller probably did that before all the 'so sorry' carp. The neutral from another buyer snuck in because they must have not queried the seller first. Which is the other odd thing. I would swear that I just asked a question of the seller and did not open a case. Then when I got that answer there was a case. I THEN opened the INR. How could that happen? This whole thing has me boggled.
Hubs is on his way to the Post Office. He has two Details print outs to show them. The first one says that the package was sent FedEx. The second has the USPS tracking number. Another weirdness. Cue the TZ tunes.
bonjourami
·11 months agoBecause the pkg shows as delivered, and your case was closed in the sellers favor, he was able to get your fb removed.
mommaknows
·11 months ago Sometimes you just need to stop and smell the flowers.
ittybitnot
·11 months agoI opened a case and tonight it was closed in the sellers favor with no refund to me.
@moondogblues
When ever there is tracking that says "delivered" associated with your order, filing an "item not received" (INR) claim will be useless, even if the scan is "fake" in the sense that the parcel was sent to a local gas station or tavern in your Zip Code. The eBay Money Back Guarantee will be a giant fail. Though this has been going on here for over a decade, eBay still does not provide any printed policy or guidelines to help victims of the "fake tracking scam". Their "denial" program serves to protect eBay. If you end up having to go to your credit card for redress, be sure NOT to use INR as a reason. The claim will be forwarded to eBay, who will respond with the same phony tracking and you will lose. Think FRAUD/FAKE TRACKING SCAM.
Here is an example of options available to you when this happens in the message selected as "Best Answer":
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Seller-is-a-Liar-and-Cheat/m-p/35108131#M522799
moondogblues
OP11 months agoittybit...wow, just read the first page of that thread from May! Exactly what happened to us, I could have written that myself...thanks so much for finding that!!!
moondogblues
OP11 months agoThe seller has obviously blocked me...the negative I tried to leave last night is nowhere to be found. I am hoping the PO will tell my hubs about the weight of the 'delivered' package. Our package was 80 pounds of bird seed.
Also, I can't find any way to open a SNAD...help...
jonathanbrightlight
·11 months agoThe seller blocking you would have no impact on your ability to leave negative feedback. I do only see one semi-recent negative you've left, which appears to have been for a completely different order. If you left feedback and it was removed for some reason, it would usually show up in your feedback still, just as a -- entry, but sometimes they do remove it completely. I would suspect it didn't finish recording the feedback, though, and you should try again to leave feedback.
To open a SNAD (Significant Not As Described) claim, you just choose the option to Return This Item, from the Order Details page or your Purchase History. Then, from the reasons presented, you choose Item Not As Described.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoHere's what happens when I click on Return the Item:
jonathanbrightlight
·11 months agoSorry. Your only option is to go to your payment source and dispute the charge then.
moondogblues
OP11 months agojon...we will do that. But I would really like to nail this scammer.
rokkworks
·11 months agoI had this scam played on me on another river-like site, so…I’ve got a bit of experience with this.
Another thing you can and should do, is after you find out the weight of the package from the USPS,
(which will likely be ounces, not pounds) is file an online report of likely mail fraud with the USPS. The inspectors for the the USPS are notorious pit bulls, and if this seller is dirty, they will find out. This reporting won’t really help you in your situation or get your money back, but you’ll have satisfaction in knowing you’ve helped take his dirty little game down.
moondogblues
OP11 months ago"file an online report of likely mail fraud with the USPS" Thanks rokk...I've filed a Missing mail case...hopefully hubs got info I can use.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoHubs just got back from town. We live miles away so we combine trips, and he had to wait an hour before the Postmistress was able to see him. BUT GOOD news, so to speak. The package that was delivered was 1.16 ounces...a far cry from 80 plus pounds. She also said that there is a massive uptick in these scams and we live outside a very small town. She also recommended Facebook to reach out to a rep so we will do that in hopes of getting money back.
The reason we buy online is that it's soooo much cheaper. A 10 pound bag was 21 dollars at Safeway...at least it will keep the little guys happy til we can get more delivered. I really want to thank all of you for the help and suggestions!
We'll be doing the Facebook thing tomorrow and I'll check on my USPS Missing Mail case now. Will keep updating...
ittybitnot
·11 months agoWhat was the time between eBay closing your case for good, and you trying the "return item" (for not as described) denial message your received above ^^^^^^^?
Generally speaking, eBay allows a "return request for not as described", after an INR case has been closed. Sort of like if you filed INR, the item subsequently arrives, iNR is 'closed' but the item is defective or otherwise not as advertised. The buyer can file claim for not as described.
What I am trying to determine is if you got that message due to a "lag time" of the INR not being registered as "closed" (bot action) or something else is preventing you from doing this. Have you tried again for "return request/item not as described/missing parts or pieces" or something similar?
I have never heard of eBay denying a NAD claim for this reason. As far as eBay goes, THEY INSIST YOU RECEIVED THE ITEM. Their bot says so, so it must be true. Seems to me they can't have it both ways.
In the link I gave you upthread, making a return claim for NAD is only one of the options a buyer victim has. It happens to be quite expedient, and beats both the eBay denial program AND the crook at their own game. It would be interesting to see if filing an INR first, and being denied actually will result in NOT being able to consequently file NAD. I wouldn't put it past eBay to try this as well.
Do let us know what happens if you try again.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoI tried to SNAD the next morning after the INR case was denied. I couldn't even find the list of complaints again. So could not choose that. I will try again. eBay has gotten very confusing.
sin-n-dex
·11 months agoNeg FB for the seller is scrubbed if they win the case. They won the INR, so any FB you leave is scrubbed.
C.
annadryl
·11 months agoHow much $ was this item? Just sayin' sunflower seeds aren't exctly what I think of when thinking scam items. Intentional thieves are more likely to list iphones and Macbooks or something. Crooks know that risking a prison sentence isn't worth a few small $5 payouts...
moondogblues
OP11 months agoThe dollar amount at this point is not important to me...it was 40 dollars approx. Sunflower seeds are expensive and this sellers were cheap compared to Home Depot. My chipmunks and squirrels hate me right now, lol. When this seller started selling the seeds the price was 16.99 or so, less than half the cost at HD. And feedback says ONE DAY delivery? Impossible. Can anyone here see their listings, or their feedback? Can I post an order number or item? I know I can't say their name...
moondogblues
OP11 months agoAlso...they do sell phones, and the latest sale was in GDP. Seller 'says' they are in Great Britain.
roccotacodad54
·11 months agoA prison sentence?
bdmh-enterprises
·11 months agoOh yes, up to 20 years. Mail Fraud is a felony that the USPS takes very seriously. Postal inspectors are very powerful federal agents not to be trifled with.
Every buyer and seller that falls victim to this type of scam should be reporting it to the USPS.
johnrj1226
·11 months agoIt seems that the seller tracking number provided by the selected carrier shows your purchase was delivered to the address you provided at this time. Once a shipping label is purchased and placed on the package and is accepted by the carrier the sell cannot manipulate any thing. You can go to your local PO and the can provide you with a report from the GPS scanner the carrier delivered it to and if the carrier did delivery it to a incorrect address (it does happen) the carrier can go to that address and try to retrieve it.. If unsuccessful and if the shipment was insured you or the seller can file a claim with the carrier - preferably the sell should file as they are responsible for getting the package to the buyer in in the same condition as was described in the listing.
All your other stated assumptions and a nickle won't buy you a cup of coffee unless you want to drive to Wall Drugs in Wall South Dakota.. Just gotta' have the facts and nothing but the facts.
pickapaper
·11 months ago@johnrj1226 wrote: "Once a shipping label is purchased and placed on the package and is accepted by the carrier the sell cannot manipulate any thing."
John, I'm surprised you are not familiar with the "fake tracking scam". I don't know that much about it but I think I have read that the unscrupulous sellers can alter a shipping label to another address and instead of sending the item purchased, they send an empty envelope or thank you card, thus they have proof of delivery if the buyer files an INR claim. I don't know that that is what occurred with @moondogblues but it sounds like it.
If this was a fake tracking scam, @moondogblues needs to go to his payment source (credit card, etc.) and file a charge back and tell the payment source that he was the victim of a fake tracking scam.
johnrj1226
·11 months agoWell I have been to 3 county fairs, 3 rodeos* and just one goat roping contest and ain't head nuthin' like you just put in written form yet - but I'm really confused about this you statement - " I don't know that much about it but I think I have read = sounds like trying to fry an egg on the sidewalk when it is -26 F degrees outside or try holding a handfull jello at noon time when it is 100+ F in that Texas sun in Waco, Texas . Please clarify these thoughts.
* one rodeo a was at Huntsville, Texas state Prison Champion ship in 194 - they don't do it any more but got to hear Mel Tillis sing at break time - lots guard with shot guns for the fence jumpers attempts
vintage-camerastuff
·11 months agoWhy would you ship an empty package to another address in the buyers town? That doesn't make sense to me. Just ship the empty package to the correct address. It will still show the package delivered regardless of what address the seller uses.
dhbookds
·11 months agoBecause it is an automatic win for the seller......... IF buyer gets an empty package.......they are going to fight that and probably win.
vintage-camerastuff
·11 months agoHow do they prove they received an empty package? As long as the seller uploads the tracking number showing package delivered good chance the crooked seller wins.
dhbookds
·11 months agoThe crooked seller would win a INR case, but not necessarily a NAD case (empty package).....ebay would most likely give a buyer the refund out of their pocket......which would probably put the seller on some kind of list and endanger him if he got more "empty package" claims
mooncat_watches
·11 months agoGood point
Can't the OP still file a NAD? I thought you could do both if one fails?
an-57470
·11 months agoItem Not As Described
moondogblues
OP11 months ago'How do they prove they received an empty package? As long as the seller uploads the tracking number showing package delivered good chance the crooked seller wins.'
I think the Post Office will have weight info. This package, MY package would be 80 pounds.
roccotacodad54
·11 months agoBecause if they send it to the corret address the buyer might file "Item Not As Described" case instead.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoThis is what the seller messaged me with Aug 9:
The seller has responded.
Seller’s message: "Dear [moondogblues],Thank you for reaching out to us. Please don't worry, we are here to assist you. I would like to inform you that a replacement is being arranged for you.We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused and assure you that we are committed to resolving this matter promptly. You will receive further updates, including tracking details, once the replacement has been dispatched.If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.Thank you for your patience and understanding."
Your purchase is covered by eBay Money Back Guarantee. If your request is not resolved, you can ask us to step in and help.
Radio silence after that, though I asked three times for the new tracking number.
moondogblues
OP11 months ago"If this was a fake tracking scam, @moondogblues needs to go to his payment source (credit card, etc.) and file a charge back and tell the payment source that he was the victim of a fake tracking scam."
Good idea...I am so mad that I will leave no stone unturned. Has anyone here compared the seller's order numbers? How can there be so many duplicates?
moondogblues
OP11 months agoPer our Post Office the tracking number on our order was NEVER associated with our address. Only in eBay is it associated with our address, but it didn't come to us.
bonanza125
·11 months agoUnfortunately if you file a "item not received" case and the tracking shows delivered you as the buyer would lose. The next step you have is to go to your payment source and see if your payment source will do a chargeback. This is probably a scam which Ebay only goes by what the tracking says.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoHere's what I got when I went to the appeal.
This case can’t be appealed
Since the seller provided tracking details showing the order was delivered to the right address, this case is closed and ineligible for appeal.
If you still haven't received your order, you can:
moondogblues
OP11 months agoThe seller already has my address.
USPS has confirmed that the item was delivered but NOT to our address. Due to privacy issues she would not say where it went, just that it was in our town.
Neighbors...no. And I was here at the time stated.
My hubs has to go to town tomorrow, he will hopefully be able to get a signed statement from USPS that it was not delivered to us. I am also opening a lost mail claim.
moondogblues
OP11 months agoOpened the 'lost mail' claim...what an ordeal that was. Arghhhhhhhhhhh.
jscar59
·11 months agothere should be a GPS location scan when item was delivered.