I don't know about the Instagram helpers. Also, 1 courtesy per LIFETIME?
Summary: gurlcat initiated a conversation about the challenges faced with phone customer service representatives (CSRs) compared to social media workers, specifically in the context of handling eBay courtesy refunds. They argue that phone CSRs often lack the authority to make discretionary decisions, and sometimes their advice is counterproductive. gurlcat believes social media workers generally have more authority and knowledge but acknowledges that not all will necessarily support the seller's needs. They express skepticism about being informed by a CSR that the "1 courtesy per lifetime" rule exists and seek confirmation from other users about their experiences with eBay's courtesy refunds. 12345jamesstamps and others contribute to the discussion by sharing their perspectives and experiences.
I don't want to post the heinous details of the situation with this buyer. And trust me, you don't either -WAY too complex, actually multiple 'situations' at once. Suffice it to say, it couldn't be a clearer case for seller protection, if not NARU'ing this scam buyer. And the Instagram eBay employee fielding my ticket basically said I would get a courtesy refund, "but I see your account has already received one in the past."
The past?
I could only remember the one from my 'Beyond Bizarre Return!' (2024), for $32.95. And even if I knew I should "save" my 1 Hail Mary for a higher-dollar scam like the present one, I didn't even expect to get that one; just saw that eBay did it after they NARU'd that buyer's account and paid her card chargeback for me "as a courtesy".
tobaccocardyahoo
·4 months agoI read any use of courtesy refunds to indicate that you are not protected by Ebay policy.
When you get your one and only in this lifetime courtesy refund it means "shut up and go away".
Give this Ebay rep credit for being diplomatic, but if you believe Ebay policy should protect you either you are being too optimistic or should fight like heck.
I never expect to be protected by Ebay so I never spend my time fighting. I don't expect other sellers to emulate my decisions in such cases either.
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@tobaccocardyahoo Your reply is confusing to me in several ways but thank you nonetheless.
luckythewinner
·4 months agoAnd even if I knew I should "save" my 1 Hail Mary for a higher-dollar scam like the present one
ROTFL.
If eBay gave sellers what amounts to a coupon good for one courtesy refund on a transaction of the seller's choice, that would be a free pass for every unscrupulous sellers to collude with a partner and defraud eBay for a high-value item.
What the eBay rep said about "upholding the Money Back Guarantee" is absolutely consistent with eBay's behavior swince 2008, when the MGB was introduced.
Courtesy refunds are exactly that - a discretionary tool that eBay uses as a courtesy when eBay's decides it is in eBay's best interest to use it.
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@luckythewinner About the dollar amount in question, let me put it this way: I have definitely seen posts here in the forums where sellers got courtesy refunds for much bigger amounts. Whether those were the only courtesies they could ever receive in their lifetimes, I don't know.
loose_goose_garage
·4 months agoI've had at least 4 or 5 in the past 6-7 years; whether that means they will do 1 a year, I don't know. However, they do seem to have cracked down on offering them over the past couple years, insisting it is the seller's job to eat the cost. Even the ones I did receive, as SlippinJimmy said, "Persistence and high quality presentation helps."
It took a lot of phone time, submitting documents, etc. to get them to issue the refunds, but when I have clear cut evidence for the situation, I don't back down easily.
I know many sellers here say it isn't worth their time, and financially sometimes it isn't. But at the end of the day, to me the principle is more important. If more and more sellers just give up, instead of fighting for a solution they deserve, eBay will just get more comfortable than they already are pushing the problems onto sellers.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months ago'more and more sellers just give up'....I think it's because seller(s) may not win an appeal or whatever the seller is fighting and end-up with a 'ding'.
Having eBay step in and give the refund scares a lot of sellers...me especially.
I gave in to refunding a remorse return where item was never returned...I was afraid of getting a 'ding' on my record...eBay made it look like the claim wouldn't close after 30+ days until there was a refund.
Instagram was being thrown around here lately as some form of getting help for an eBay claim...especially after Facebook dropped off helping sellers and buyers.
Since customer service can be wishy-washy sometimes in what they say I guess I am not missing out on using it(Instagram).
spreadlovelikefire
·4 months agoI've had countless courtesy refunds over my selling history. I am a larger seller, but I honestly have had at least a couple just this year. It is rare to get scammed but when it has happened to me, eBay has always been on my side. This is just a bizarre statement from CS. She is either new, didn't want to be bothered, or something changed recently on the back end. I would def try again today, hopefully it gets routed to a new person.
valueaddedresource
·4 months ago@gurlcat - I agree with @babyers88 ...whatever that CS rep is smoking, they're trying to blow some your way. 😂
I have personally spoken to multiple sellers who have received more than one "courtesy refund" during the lifetime of their accounts - don't let eBay try to tell you otherwise.
babyers88
·4 months agoI must be a cat with 9 lives because that ebay employee is blowing smoke, ebay can and will "sometimes" can't say how often per seller, will decide to refund a buyer and not make the seller eat the refund. It's a saving face gesture on behalf of ebay for both party's (at the representatives discretion, some may require authorization from a supervisor)
you can speculate it all day, but it also boils down to your performance as a seller, if your a turd in a bowl don't expect ebay to provide a life raft.
my advice is only fight the battles you know you can win and let the rest slide to stay in good graces.
stephenmorgan
·4 months agoI take a courtesy offering of anything to mean the decision maker believes whatever happened is not their fault and they do not owe anything, therefore it is a one time courtesy, a goodwill gesture to appease.
Most people would accept the courtesy and be done with it. If it were I and another situation came up where I believed I was correct I would not accept the one Lifetime Courtesy answer as an resolution and would pursue the matter as outlined in the User Agreement.
pls-consignments
·4 months ago@gurlcat
When I read the CS reply and it said... "our job is to uphold the money back guarantee", and "This coverage helps to build trust with buyers online, which in turn, helps sellers", I, well, threw up a little in my mouth. 🤢
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@pls-consignments Well in a previous remark she said my best option was to use my 50% refund deduction seller protection. I already knew that was my second-best option, but a distant one obviously, and I sure can understand why eBay likes it, because they don't have to refund any FVF's.
Meanwhile "build trust with buyers" -um sure when they're GOOD buyers! This one is an atrocious scammer who should just be NARU'd for everyone's good.
quadcitypickers
·4 months agoeBay has always been about the buyer, always.
Remember the 2008 seller boycott that the CEO at the time called "nothing but noise"?
It's always fun dealing with a return where the buyer shipped back something different and you get reps who go "well we can't see or know for sure what the buyer shipped back".
I always ask "oh, so your taking the word of a 3 month old account with 20 feedback over a 11 year old account with over 5,000?" Love seeing them try to struggle with a reply to that.
grann-4629
·4 months agoFeedbacks in this case mean nothing. eBay doesn't have to struggle with anything ... it's their playpen and they make the rules that all users have to agree to.
And, the reps really can't see what the buyer shipped back even if a picture is submitted ... neither can you or I. In this case 'Seeing is believing' is accurate.
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@grann-4629 Of course, and if all that happened was I received something other than what I shipped, I wouldn't have even contacted CS via any method, because I would know better. But like I said this is a very complicated buyer situation (she actually purchased THREE items from me, and her return behavior is sketchy in different ways on each one). It started with messages and also label/tracking issues that showed clear scamming intent.
How clear? Clear enough that this employee indicated the only reason she wouldn't do a courtesy refund was that I've already had one. -In my life.
grann-4629
·4 months ago@gurlcat I understand that, and forgot to add to my post that in spite of eBay rules and seeing the success you are having on their venue, I urge you to keep up the good fight 😎
I'm still not sure on the number of courtesy refunds a seller is 'entitled' to as there is some disagreement here from the experts.
At any rate, best of luck to you.
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@grann-4629 I'm getting boxing glove talcum powder on my keyboard as I type this. 😎 But so far I don't see any disagreements here, or at least I don't think I've seen anyone agree with that Instagram person that 1-per-lifetime is the company rule. Thank you for the luck! I also welcome prayers, spells, good vibrations, any form of positive energy anyone wants to send. Oh but not American Express, sorry.
stephenmorgan
·4 months agoBoycotts do not normally work unless there is a significant impact to the business. When there is minimal short term impact that can be overcome then the boycott emboldens the company to continue with the changes it has decided.
News story of the 2008 Boycott
https://www.npr.org/2008/02/20/19188836/sellers-boycott-ebay-over-new-policies
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@stephenmorgan Whoa I somehow never heard of this. And it was even on NPR?! Thank you for the link -I will certainly check it out, but later today, after my 'Round 2.'
stephenmorgan
·4 months agoThere was another boycott in 2005 protesting eBay's hypocrisy over some banned items.
adamcartwright
·4 months ago@gurlcat
So you're getting a second one, even though it's against policy?
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@adamcartwright No this was her saying "I would, but ...... "
slippinjimmy
·4 months ago@gurlcat
Probably one courtesy refund by the front line csr's is the internal policy, if you can work your way up the ladder you can probably get more. Persistence and high quality presentation helps.
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@slippinjimmy I think you are very likely right. I'm going to try again tomorrow, after some government reporting website visits.
tools*
·4 months agoeBay "customer service" is like ****** *****. You have to assume it's a lie, and maybe some truth will accidentally trickle out.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoI read all the time here about 'oh, you can go on to Instagram' to get help with this or that.
So, besides the once in a lifetime courtesy refund from eBay...did Instagram help with the problem or was it useless to contact them on this particular situation?
And will you continue to go on Instagram to solve future problems...but not expecting a courtesy refund anymore?
I don't do Instagram...lazy I guess...but just curious...if I should be using it for problems...or for maybe a future courtesy refund(I can use it for a big money problem.)
I usually solve my own problems...I don't do Facebook and the other social platforms.
'I sell on the site myself'...wonder if she(or he) only had one courtesy refund or?
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@12345jamesstamps Put it this way: MOST phone CSR's don't even have the executive discretion to do courtesies and other requests, and very often they give advice that turns out to be worse than if the seller did nothing (think of how many of those posts you've seen).
There are some phone CSR's with more knowledge and power, but you can't demand to speak with them; it's only by luck that one answers, or a regular lousy one eventually transfers you to one, because they don't know what to do and you refuse to get off the phone.
And even if you get one, they may not take your side.
With the social media workers, all of them have the higher authority and knowledge, so that's your baseline when you contact them. But whether the one you get will take your side, that is not guaranteed.
And I think this one I had today either lied or was misinformed. Or maybe all the sellers who've had more than 1 courtesy somehow lucked out and got workers who broke the "1/lifetime" rule for them.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoMaybe someone will read this and say they got more than one courtesy refund from eBay.
But then, we will have to trust them that they are truthful...😇
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@12345jamesstamps That's part of why I started this post. 😉 I'm pretty dang sure lots of sellers have had more than one. It's even possible I have, but I'm only remembering the 'one' that happened with a buyer who was a whole rodeo chimera: bronco, bull, & clown all in one.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoI am trying to keep it at the top by responding to you so it doesn't get buried...😄
Does eBay actually tell the seller or buyer it's a courtesy refund?...I assume it would be a email of sorts.
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@12345jamesstamps Yes the email uses the term 'courtesy' to characterize the refund being paid to the buyer on your behalf, without your funds being drafted. I know I've seen it here in the forums numerous times. And I even have a half-solid memory of the phrase "as a one-time courtesy" being used, but my brain may be fabricating that, and even if not, I never would have thought it meant one time EV-ER.
I wish one of the big-brain, computer-memory members would chime in.
@valueaddedresource @jonathanbrightlight @a_c_green @my-cottage-books-and-antiques
And where the heck has @wastingtime101 been for ages??
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·4 months ago@gurlcat Sorry, I'm no expert on this subject. I will say, one thing that probably matters is the amount involved, which you don't state. Ten bucks? A courtesy refund might be likely. Ten thousand bucks? Not very likely, even if you have never had a courtesy refund before. The courtesy refund, in my view, is primarily aimed at saving Customer Rep time---If a few bucks makes the issue go away, so that neither party contacts CS, that saves ebay money.
If you really want the refund, try again, another Rep might provide it.
mattva
·4 months agoMy inner child would have responded to eBay like this. 🤬
My inner adult would have responded to eBay like this. 🖕
My self control would have responded to eBay like this. 🤐
**bleep** you self control!
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoI have no idea about the prior 2024 situation, but how exactly is the current debacle "outside of policy"? That sounds like a whole lotta blah blah intended to make you go away.
gurlcat
OP4 months ago@tarotfindsandmore I thought that was weird wording too. I guess she meant courtesy refunds are outside the usual choices a seller can make for themselves to handle a problem. Kind of like how there are 'secret off-menu items' you can order at Taco Bell. "Inside policy" would be the normal menu items.
Cheese and crackers I need to eat something. But not cheese and crackers.