How do I sugarcoat this?
I often try to sugarcoat anything that a buyer might not want to hear to minimize the chance of them lashing out or snapping at me. But I don't know how to do that for this, anyone know how?
She bought an XL hoodie from me, filed a remorse return for "doesn't fit" and said I sent them the "wrong size". So I messaged them asking what size did they actually receive? What size is shown on the care label? If I indeed sent her the wrong size I would've sent her the correct one and saved the sale.
She replies "The label says XL, but it's not an XL. It fits like a children's Small. You sent the wrong size." Clearly the buyer doesn't pay attention to size chart measurements, and I love how they jump to the conclusion that I sent them the wrong size when in fact they were sent an XL according to the label.
From the tone of her messages, I'm choosing my words carefully now. I told her to return it for a refund, I have buyer pays return shipping for this account. She then asks if she's responsible for paying for the return shipping. Is there anyway I can sugarcoat my reply rather than just saying "Yes."?
fbusoni
·1 year ago@iamalwaysright
Seems to be an open and shut case requiring only your assent; conversation of any type is wholly superfluous, it seems to me.
chienoir
·1 year agoAfter being on eBay for decades, I learned through experience that THE most problematic item to sell is used clothing - particularly women's clothing. If the label is wrong, or the size is off, is the seller to blame for that? The seller did not manufacture the item. The few pre-owned items I still have for sale are heirloom women's coats. I took all the possible measurements and posted them in their description. That way, if someone says the coat doesn't fit them, they can't say they didn't know what they were buying. (But in general, it is remarkable how some buyers don't read an item's description thoroughly, expecting the item to be something other than what is stated, and then expect a return or a refund.)
gurlcat
·1 year agoIf you look at taking a return as "blame" that's unfortunate. It's nothing personal, just people not wanting to be stuck with something they can't wear. Even if the measurements are just right, you really can't know how WELL something will fit until you try it on. Come on you know you've been unpleasantly surprised like that!
Just consider the amount of precious space that brick-and-mortar stores give up by having changing rooms. -They do that because it's better than the alternative, how many sales would never happen without try-on, and how many returns they'd get for sales that do happen. I'm sure online-purchased new clothes get returned just as much as used ones.
johnrj1226
·1 year agoCould be a mislabeled item. size tags are most often sewn in by hand by a a human. Some have a problem getting a McDonald s burger right
fm2000
·1 year agoTo the OP, you are going to be forced to give them their money back, and your buyer probably knows this. Tell them to open a return, and then end communication. Maybe you will get lucky and they won't return it, either because they still want it, or won't be able to figure out the returns process and give up (getting a box is their problem thankfully.) If they file an INAD case and you don't reply they will get their money back, you will be out the item and have a defect too. Even if you did everything right, it doesn't matter. Don't feel bad, all of us have been in this situation at one time or another.
All clothing sizes are a rough guess (90% consistency is very optimistic), and that rough guess shifts over time. There is no consistency, sometimes even across items from the same manufacturer. Buyers should absolutely look at measurements/size charts, and if they don't see any, demand them before buying. Measurements are objective, arbitrary sizes are not and are nearly meaningless.
Every day millions of clothing buyers and sellers scream into the void in anger, because clothing sizes are not standardized. Why on earth in 2025 do we not have international standardized clothing sizes is something I will never understand.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoMany more items fit than one realizes. Many items fit but look like crap.
Many manufacturers make items which look like crap and others which do not.
Some manufacturers are not manufacturers, they deal with multiple suppliers who place their brand on items which have nothing in common other than the brand.
Many sellers fail to know who actually makes the clothes they sell and whether the brand on the clothes has any meaning.
gurlcat
·1 year agoHow could it possibly be enforced? Even if all brands in all nations signed some kind of garment sizing treaty 😆 .... you can bet lots of them would have their fingers crossed behind their backs, knowing that if they just make their garments a liiiiiittle bit bigger than the standardized size, customers (especially women) will like it because they'd like to THINK they're a size smaller than they really are. That's how this all got started in the first place.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoI'm pretty sure that's why brands like Chicos use vanity sizing @gurlcat . Where Size 0 = Small, Size 1 = Medium, Size 2 = Large, Size 3 = X-Large.
gurlcat
·1 year agoI hadn't heard of that practice of theirs. Wow that really takes the cake! But at the same time not surprising.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoLol. Yea I had some women friends tell me I should rip off all the tags off the clothes I sell and create new tags for them labeling them as 2-3 sizes smaller than they actually are and I'll end up selling tons of these clothes.
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoThat's boutique sizing, not vanity sizing a number of designers use it, and none of us who buy and wear these items really think we're wearing a size 3 - size 3 doesn't even exist in misses clothing - it's a junior size.
Higher-end European brands have also frequently used this sizing scheme - it actually makes fit and international sizing equivalents easier for those of us who sell the stuff.
There is NO such thing as "conventional" sizing - there have been attempts at it (an attempt was made in the late 60s as well as the early 80s, and there was some size shifting - sewing patterns are based on the older 60s scheme), but nothing sticks because humans are not standard, never have been, never will be.
ETA: There is also a myth that all men's clothing is "standard" - not so much. I wear men's pants, for instance, and the waists on different styles vary by about 3 inches. There are tailoring standards, but those seldom cross over to non-tailored clothing.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoThanks @chapeau-noir - I saw the term vanity sizing on this forum. Did not realize the correct term was boutique sizing. 🙂
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoDidn't mean to lecture, but sizing is such a vexed topic. Also, I made garments and also did alterations for years. I try to pass along what I've learned in the hopes it'll help others.
BTW: I altered almost as many mens stuff as womens!
gurlcat
·1 year agoOh man, sewing pattern sizes are such HIGH numbers, the opposite of 'vanity.' If I gave more of a flip I would be embarrassed to check out at JoAnn's. 🤣
johnrj1226
·1 year agoSpot on - I like Tommy Bahama. Normally wear a Large. In a T B I swim in a large - can fit my wife and me in - not a bad thing after a couple of beers (Coors Light for both), lights out, some Merle Haggard or The Sea (San Sebastian Strings - 1967) on and the kiddos are not around. Step down to an T B size M for daytime wear.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=the+sea+san+sebastian+strings
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoLol. They even have sizes 00, and 000 (J Crew). By definition, size 0 should be literally nothing. Imagine how crazy preying on vanity sizing consumers got when they decided on size 00 (smaller than nothing), and yet size 000 (smaller than smaller than nothing).
johnrj1226
·1 year agoJust to a add to your comment. The average size person is different in most countries in the world e.g. the US vs Japan vs Mexico vs Vietnam vs France etc. Meaning all these size labels P, S, M, L etc are different kinda like the diff between men's and women's sizes
Secondly all countries would need to adopt the metric system and then covert there machinery to metrics tooling, and all agree on one system to round up and round down - in my work career ran in to 3 unique ways to round up and down - US , France, and Japan. So far the US has refused to adopt the 100% metric system and people in England still drive on the wrong side of the road
PS. There are no "treaties" for garment sizes. There are just adopted standards that best fits the needs of each nation as judged by the folks of that country
Finally, if it was theoretically possible to get every one to agree to standardize on one way - how would one adjust clothing to fit all those different body shapes one can see in each and every visit to a Walmart store - been going to Walmart since 1984 at one of those lil ol' WM country stores near Waco TX - time changes every thing and body shapes have too.
In closing Some people should never were spandex but they do - it should be outlawed.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoLook up "vanity sizing" in Google. Is there even a regulation for misleading size labels?
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoThe only way I can see to make her even slightly happy is to send her a Return Shipping Label and refund on return.
Then expect to have negative feedback anyway.
Because you use a posting ID, I can't see if you have measurements in the listing or if you just use a size chart.
Nor can I see if you have your products in hand or if you are trusting a dropshipping supplier.
I would advise going with actual measurements, since garments , especially Chinese made, often do not match the charts the manufacturer supplies.
It is very common for women in particular to order the size we think we are instead of using actual measurements.
Perhaps eBay should add Measurements to Item Specifics;
chest/bust, waist, hip, inseam, shoulder, upper arm, length.
"I regret you are unhappy with your purchase. Please return for a refund."
Rinse. Repeat.
But send the shipping label. It's cheaper than tranquillizers.
So am I paranoid to assume that there's a chance she wouldn't even go for returning it for a refund even with a seller pays?
Yes.
But if they don't use the label you supply, the cost is eventually refunded to you.
And you can Respond to the negative feedback.
"Did not use supplied return shipping label to obtain refund."
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoAll items in hand, no dropshipper. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to measure the garment manually and create this simple size chart.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoI never read a size chart. If the chart differs from conventional sizing the item should be identified with only the measurements and not the size.
I never buy used clothing which may have shrunk or off brand clothing made in another country,
I believe many sellers create their own problems and their attempts to deal with inferior product they sell is counter-productive and leads to unnecessary disputes.
Too often I have seen sellers offering a Women's XL item (based on measurements) as a Men's XL and that seller is at fault in anything resembling the real world. In these cases I have read the measurements because the item appeared to be a Women's product from the pictures.
Yes, sizes vary between brands but the rag trade manufacturers do not want returns. They often have agreed to subsidize returns experienced by their large retail customers. The products where they have made a mistake often turn up in liquidation channels where Ebay and other internet resellers try to fight over the justified returns.
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoWhat is "conventional sizing?"
I agree that sellers need to understand the business of clothing - it's one of the more difficult and knowledge intensive markets.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoConventional sizing is the measurements which 90% of clothing products seem to fit. There are plenty of generic size charts which show it. At least close enough that a disclaimer of "runs small" can avoid disputes. Sometimes "runs small" will lead to losing a sale which would have turned bad, but that is what should happen.
I sold a variety of sports related clothing some years back. I learned there was no point to offering other than Men's XL on EBay. Both the men and the women who bought it were happy. Even the women who had ordered smaller sizes from me decided they looked better in XL. There are probably some S M and L jerseys in boxes somewhere in my storage. 10, 15 or 20 yo NWT
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoI would simply advise them to return and process it however they file.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoHm I just checked my messages with them and just noticed the first message she sent it might seem that she doesn't really intend to return the hoodie in the first place. In it she said "he wears in XL clothing and then hoodie you sent me is way too small on him. I would appreciate my money back. And if you still want the hoodie returned to you please.tell me how to.do.so.and.get.me.a.box."
So am I paranoid to assume that there's a chance she wouldn't even go for returning it for a refund even with a seller pays? There might be an issue with this buyer either way. I think I'll just not waste more time with her and require a buyer pays. Either way if she returns or not I should be protected by feedback. Originally my reason for sugarcoating was to not upset the buyer but now it sounds to me she might get upset either way unless I just refund and let her keep the item.
inhawaii
·1 year agoI would bite the bullet and pay for the return.
I did that recently for a customer who bought the wrong size spacer (his mistake).
I asked "what size spacer did you want?" and told him to keep the wrong spacer and sent him the correct one free of charge.
It's good customer service and I could afford the loss.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoThis would be the best case scenario, and that's also why I originally asked the buyer what size did they receive. I only carry as high as a 2XL for the hoodie so sadly I'm not able to send them the size they want and call it a day and save some sales profit. If XL seems like a childrens Small to them, there's no way 2XL would work for them.
gurlcat
·1 year agoSome Asian-made garments have ABSURDLY overstated sizes, and I mean way beyond the fact that the average Asian adult is 'smaller' than (say) the average American adult. I think some of those countries might not even have childrens' sizing separate from adults', so then when they try to convert the size for English-speaking country commerce, it's WAY off.
I have a beautiful brocade jacket that would probably be called women's medium here, large at most, but the tag says 4X!!
@iamalwaysright When you say they didn't pay attention to "size chart measurements" -did you include one in your listing? Is it just a generic one from the internet, or based on this exact garment? Did you provide measurements OF this exact garment (at least length and chest)?
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoThe hoodie was made in Honduras. But yes, that's precisely why we have size chart measurements.
You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink it. Sorry if I offended any buyers here by calling you horses.
gurlcat
·1 year agoBut you didn't answer my question about the size chart. -Where did you get it? Is it specifically for this garment?
An 'XL' would have totally different measurements for a jacket versus a shirt, for example, and never mind the brand. So if you just displayed a generic size chart, it could be way off for the item this buyer purchased.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoOh. I measure the garments myself for the size chart. Chest, Shoulder, overall length. Same thing I look for when buying for myself.
gurlcat
·1 year agoGuess we'd have to take your word for that, with the posting i.d. in use here.
With the buyer requesting a box and all, I would just quit replying to her. Either she'll start a return or she won't, and if she does, she'll find out whether she has to pay return shipping or not, based on which reason she selects from the menu.
All I know is this reminds me why I stopped selling clothes. 😆
wastingtime101
·1 year agoYou can take my word for it because I've seen their listings and their size charts are excellent. They include a diagram and measurements - different size chart for each item with measurements specific to that item.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoMeh. Yea but thus far this issue only happens a small percentage of the time.
adamcartwright
·1 year ago@gurlcat
Came here to say that. IMO, size charts don't mean much for women's clothing. I need to see the measuring tape on the garment, particularly the under arm measurement.
I listed a top today -- a women's medium, but the underarm measurement was abnormally narrow.
In addition to showing the measurements in photos and also in the description, I pointed out in the description that it was very narrow. Hopefully that will be enough to keep me out of trouble. 🤞
gurlcat
·1 year agoThat's exactly how I did it when I was mainly selling clothes. And it really kills two birds with one stone: provides measurements buyers can see with their own eyes (especially since some look at nothing but the photos), and by doing it while taking photos anyway, you never need to stop and write anything down.
With that system I could shoot a stack of clothes in no time, a few shots hanging on the door or mannequin, then a few on the table including measurements and tag closeups -DONE.
lakefor94
·1 year agoI don't know, sounds like she could get ugly since you are already accused of sending the wrong item.
I don't think you can sugarcoat anything to this buyer. Pay the return shipping......
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoYou can still empathize with them while pointing out what you sent and how it was described in the listing. You could also qualify them to what size (measurements) they were expecting. Possibly exchange it for a larger size if they are unhappy.
I would communicate quickly so it does not give them too much time to get upset. Sometimes if you do make it personal (friendly) buyers tend to have a hard time burning you.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoThanks for reminding me of this method. I forgot that I typically do this sometimes with buyers. We'll see how it goes.
freshest_finds
·1 year agoI had a buyer purchase a swimsuit, wear it, soil it, and then process a return stating did not have buttons. Listing did not show or say anything about buttons. Didn't matter. eBay processed the return anyway. They made me pay the buyer back as well as return shipping, and take the soiled item with no resale value back. My posting stated no returns. eBay looks out for the buyers and takes advantage of the sellers. **bleep**ty practices and good luck trying to speak to someone on the phone.
adamcartwright
·1 year ago@freshest_finds
I sure hope you reported that buyer.
Every seller who experiences such a return, which can be documented as fraudulent like yours, should be reporting these buyers.
mordecai8614
·1 year agoIs there anyway I can sugarcoat my reply rather than just saying "Yes."?
Probably not because that's not what they want to hear. I mostly deal with clothing & this is why I have no returns. If someone tries to return due to "doesn't fit", I decline the return & if they leave negative feedback it gets removed under "case resulted not in buyers favor". No sugar coating, no beating around the bush, no hassle. Decline, block, done.
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoYea but there's the common issue that doesn't "no returns" invites buyers to file more SNADs other than "doesn't fit" remorse returns? There's also the privilege to issue a less than full refund in cases of damaged returned items, you don't get that with no returns right?
mordecai8614
·1 year agoPersonally, I've never had a buyer try to return an item that didn't fit as "not described", but I do get several people a year who try to return as "didn't fit". And I know that number would be even higher if I actually did accept returns. And since I very rarely ever have to accept returns, I've also never received a damaged return. Those "perks" seem insignificant
iamalwaysright
OP1 year agoGood to know that there are many buyers who don't abuse the system.
inhawaii
·1 year agoDon't let the customers words "you sent me the wrong size" get to you.
We know you sent the right size.
I wouldn't argue about the return shipping.
I'd just pay it. That's just me.
She could always do a INAD return, in which case you would be stuck paying the return shipping anyways.
Just my opinion.
ittybitnot
·1 year agoShe could always do a INR return....
@inhawaii
Don't think so. It was delivered, it doesn't fit the buyer. I am sure @iamalwaysright has "delivery confirmation".
brightlightbookseller
·1 year agoI suspect @inhawaii mistyped and meant an INAD return.
inhawaii
·1 year agoTypo.
Changed it to INAD.