Fraud buyer filed for a dispute after four months
I sold a watch here four months ago and it was delivered to the buy with no complain then. Sadly I found out today from eBay that the buyer wrote his bank that he did not recognize the transaction. Now eBay is holding my fund for another two items I sold few days ago. I contacted an eBay agent and I was told that the case is being investigated. I now asked the agent that how is this my business? The watch was delivered and intact as described. Please get in touch and share your experience on how this is solved with eBay.
41 comments
imapaqrat
·3 years agoIMHO, accept the fact that the buyer's bank will find in their favor and you will be responsible financially.
"Seller Protection" is like the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause and The Tooth Fairy.
I had a buyer purchase $1,500 in vintage Nike posters. They left me positive feedback and even sent me an eBay message telling me how happy they were with the posters.
A few days later, they opened a dispute with their credit card company, claiming they received damage posters.
I talked with eBay Non-Customer Support and they assured me that with the feedback and eBay message, I would be protected.
NOPE! NOPE! NOPE!
The bank found in the buyer's favor and my account was charged $1,500. The thief got to keep the posters and got their money back. The thief filed a false claim, which is a crime and they should have been charged with a crime, not rewarded.
Unfortunately the crooks in the world know about this Bank Loophole and I think this type of thing is going to happen more and more.
I called eBay Non-Customer Support back and got the "It was the bank's decision and it is outside of eBay's control." But they did promise to refund their fees for the transaction. THANKS FOR NOTHING EBAY!
I understand it was the bank's decision, but YOU eBay, were suppose to protect ME the seller and you even admitted I as the seller wouldn't be responsible. This should have been an open & shut case, if eBay had put any effort in supporting the transaction, but they did nothing. eBay should have been responsible, but why waist their effort, when they know it will be charged back to the seller.
eBay's word isn't worth anything.
slyders_finds
·3 years agoMy guess is they broke the watch and are trying to get their money back. Not sure how much the watch is worth, but also a possibility they need money because of unexpected bills.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoThis one dispute that turned out to be a double dispute I won both times on here. The customer first opened a I did not get it dispute. The tracking showing delivered settled that nonsense. Then for goodness sakes this same scammer then went back to the credit card for a second dip, filing a not as described dispute on the item they said they never got, yeah right, won that one too. People who do this stuff are full of it.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoPersonally I have had a few of these on here and I have always won them.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoUnauthorized charge chargebacks are usually pretty easy to win. As long as tracking shows delivered, and the card and ebay data on the person buying the merchandise match. The charge would not have gone through in the first place if the ebay address and credit card address etc etc did not match the recipient. As far as somebody else using their card, it usually ends up being the husband wife, teen etc in the family and whoever opens the bill looks at it and does not recognize they bought it. If card is stolen, the merch would never go to the thief’s address it would go to the cardholder address. UNLESS, the seller did something foolish and changed the shipping address. That’s a no-no.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoAlso four months is a pretty darn long time to be disputing a I do not recognize this charge. Sounds like a customer trying to get a freebie.
mam98031
·3 years agoI agree. I have had a few over the years and I've won all of them. I just provided the information that proved the buyer not only knew what they ordered but received it as well. These things are usually filed not because a buyer is trying to get something for nothing but because they really didn't recognize the charge. And when a buyer does this 4 months later, their memory isn't likely serving them well.
a_c_green
·3 years agoI'm afraid there is one key detail that no one has mentioned yet: Four months is the length of time for which USPS retains their tracking info, unless you pay extra to have it retained for a longer period of time (now referred to as "USPS Tracking Plus®" on the USPS website).
If four months have elapsed since the package was shipped, it's possible that the tracking number for the sale can no longer be verified as Delivered to the address received with the payment, and as a result the buyer may then score a full refund. A scammer thus has a two-month window of opportunity within which to score a full refund before the purchase becomes six months old, a common time limit when filing purchase disputes with card providers.
I should mention here that the last time I had a Not Recognized purchase dispute, eBay only wanted to see proof that I had shipped to the address received with the payment (i.e. not necessarily that it had been delivered there), but at the same time, it was only a couple of months after the sale, not four. I had a queasy feeling when reading the OP here and the four-month time period was mentioned. I hope this is not going to end as I fear it could.
@kayoye74 : please keep us updated on the progress of this dispute.
mam98031
·3 years agoYou can try and use the tracking that still shows in Ebay. It does show if it has been delivered and the tracking number on the Sales ORder.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoWhen eBay first switched to MP this happened frequently due to the way the charge appeared on the buyers CC statement. It seems to have subsided a bit since buyers have gotten used to the new way the eBay purchases appear on their CC statements. However, it does still show up on occasion.
Fortunately this is one of the easier chargeback types in which the seller prevails. At one point eBay was handling these without involving the seller but if they have specified that you need to respond to the chargeback do as others have suggested and provide all the information you can including the shipping information, tracking showing delivery and a copy of the order, all of which eBay already has but sometimes they are too lazy to look it up.
mam98031
·3 years agoThat is an assumption, not a fact. We don't know what Ebay gives them. But it is in the seller's best interest to provide this information again to be safe. It is the seller's money and it is the seller that needs to be proactive and provide as much info as possible.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoThat is an assumption, not a fact. We don't know what Ebay gives them. But it is in the seller's best interest to provide this information again to be safe. It is the seller's money and it is the seller that needs to be proactive and provide as much info as possible.
Not an assumption unless you are telling me eBay has no idea what was sold through their site and does not keep records? I am interested to know from the OP if eBay even asked them for information or if the notice they received was informatory letting them know a chargeback had been opened and they were addressing it and no action was required from the seller.
For awhile eBay was handling purchase not recognized chargebacks without requiring the seller to provide anything.
mam98031
·3 years agoYou are assuming that Ebay doesn't give the CCC access to that information.
" For awhile eBay was handling purchase not recognized chargebacks without requiring the seller to provide anything. " I'm not sure what this means. Ebay doesn't Require sellers to provide any additional information on an INAD, INR or a Chargeback. Does that mean that a seller shouldn't? Does that mean it is in a seller's best interest just to allow the claims to run their course and hope for the best? No of course not.
Ebay doesn't "ask" sellers to provide any additional information on any kind of dispute, but each type of dispute has the ability to enter additional information. And in the Summer Seller Update they finally fixed the Chargeback system to allow for more documents to be submitted instead of just one.
If you chose for yourself not to supply any additional information that might be needed on any kind of claim, that is your choice to make. But that is not in your best interest nor is it what I'd recommend. The sit back and wait method often turns out differently than one might like.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoYou are assuming that Ebay doesn't give the CCC access to that information.
" For awhile eBay was handling purchase not recognized chargebacks without requiring the seller to provide anything. " I'm not sure what this means.
Since I have never had a chargeback for purchase not recognized I am unsure what eBay actually sends the seller I can only go by a number of postings on this forum for instances like that where eBay advised the seller of the chargeback but the notification stated that no further action was required from the seller.
Ebay doesn't Require sellers to provide any additional information on an INAD, INR or a Chargeback. Does that mean that a seller shouldn't? Does that mean it is in a seller's best interest just to allow the claims to run their course and hope for the best? No of course not.
Fully realize that and the message from eBay when it's a INAD or INR is, or was, different from those where the purchase was not recognized. At least according to a number of postings.
Ebay doesn't "ask" sellers to provide any additional information on any kind of dispute, but each type of dispute has the ability to enter additional information. And in the Summer Seller Update they finally fixed the Chargeback system to allow for more documents to be submitted instead of just one.
Again since I have never dealt with a purchase not recognized I will have to defer to you that there is in fact the capability to enter information.
If you chose for yourself not to supply any additional information that might be needed on any kind of claim, that is your choice to make. But that is not in your best interest nor is it what I'd recommend. The sit back and wait method often turns out differently than one might like.
When I deal with chargebacks of course I provide additional information when it is warranted or needed especially with INAD or INR chargebacks. I would ALWAYS recommend providing supporting information to a NAD or INR if not your are pretty much guaranteed to loose.
mam98031
·3 years agoSince I have never had a chargeback for purchase not recognized I am unsure what eBay actually sends the seller I can only go by a number of postings on this forum for instances like that where eBay advised the seller of the chargeback but the notification stated that no further action was required from the seller.
Since that is the case, IMHO you should refrain from assuming what Ebay does and doesn't do with claims such as this. It is misleading to say the least. I remind you that you said "... provide all the information you can including the shipping information, tracking showing delivery and a copy of the order, all of which eBay already has but sometimes they are too lazy to look it up." IDK what Ebay provides the CCC automatically nor do you. That was my only point.
When I deal with chargebacks of course I provide additional information when it is warranted or needed especially with INAD or INR chargebacks. I would ALWAYS recommend providing supporting information to a NAD or INR if not your are pretty much guaranteed to loose.
Keep in mind that is three DIFFERENT types of disputes. While a customer can file a Chargeback claiming that the item is not as describe or it was never received, the disputes we know as INADs and INRs are specifically filed on Ebay. I'm only try to be clear on this so there is no confusion.
INRs filed in Ebay are the only type of claim that is secure in Seller Protection if the tracking shows delivered. Any other type of dispute does not have this nor does a Chargeback. The same seller protections will not apply with a CCC. However if it is a Chargeback for an item not received and the tracking does show delivered, IF the CCC rules against the seller, Ebay should step in and pay the CCC as the seller is still covered under Seller Protection. I've had this happen.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoSince I have never had a chargeback for purchase not recognized I am unsure what eBay actually sends the seller I can only go by a number of postings on this forum for instances like that where eBay advised the seller of the chargeback but the notification stated that no further action was required from the seller.
Since that is the case, IMHO you should refrain from assuming what Ebay does and doesn't do with claims such as this. It is misleading to say the least. I remind you that you said "... provide all the information you can including the shipping information, tracking showing delivery and a copy of the order, all of which eBay already has but sometimes they are too lazy to look it up." IDK what Ebay provides the CCC automatically nor do you. That was my only point.
Somewhat agree my response was based on other postings on this forum where the seller actually posted the message text from eBay stating that no further action was required on the sellers part. OP never provided the exact text of the message from eBay so I was not assuming but trying to cover the array of possibilities.
What I actually stated was "but if they have specified that you need to respond to the chargeback do as others have suggested and provide all the information you can including the shipping information, tracking showing delivery and a copy of the order, all of which eBay already has but sometimes they are too lazy to look it up"
When I deal with chargebacks of course I provide additional information when it is warranted or needed especially with INAD or INR chargebacks. I would ALWAYS recommend providing supporting information to a NAD or INR if not your are pretty much guaranteed to loose.
Keep in mind that is three DIFFERENT types of disputes. While a customer can file a Chargeback claiming that the item is not as describe or it was never received, the disputes we know as INADs and INRs are specifically filed on Ebay. I'm only try to be clear on this so there is no confusion.
INRs filed in Ebay are the only type of claim that is secure in Seller Protection if the tracking shows delivered. Any other type of dispute does not have this nor does a Chargeback. The same seller protections will not apply with a CCC. However if it is a Chargeback for an item not received and the tracking does show delivered, IF the CCC rules against the seller, Ebay should step in and pay the CCC as the seller is still covered under Seller Protection. I've had this happen.
cardxcraft
·3 years agoWhile I would agree, a very tiny percent of credit card chargebacks are due to what you state, "buyers have gotten used to the new way the eBay purchases appear on their CC statements".
86% percent of credit card chargeback is friendly fraud.
30% of chargebacks were made with a stolen credit card.
mam98031
·3 years agoPlease provide a link to where you got those numbers please @cardxcraft .
theteamsetguy
·3 years ago@cardxcraft ,
Your numbers don't add up. 86 plus 30 is 116 The total needs to be no more than 100.
mam98031
·3 years ago@kayoye74
It is EXTREMELY important that you respond to this Chargeback. You need to submit your evidence. The tracing on the package, a copy of the order and anything else you can think of. Prove that it was a legit order. Don't sit back and just hope it will turn out in your favor. You need to get involved.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoYes and ebay has now allowed the seller to put in a heck of a lot more info without having to download this stuff onto files. I could never figure out how to do that on this ipad I use so that was a great improvement.
reallynicestamps
·3 years agoRespond to the Hold.
Give the tracking number and show that the address you shipped to is the address on the invoice.
Which in turn is the address the member gave when* they signed up for eBay.
Don't sit back and think that eBay will fix it.
You have to be assertive.
And don't trust a phone clerk.
The phone reps have a terrible reputation for getting you off the phone as soon as possible even if that means giving you the advice you want to hear instead of the advice you need to have.

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.

https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851 -> Automated Assistant, type AGENT -> enter. You will then get more options.


The social media Chat accounts are covered by trained eBay employees with some authority.
And you get a transcript so you can compare what you heard with what you were told.
*Or to be more exact the most current address, we can change our addresses.
lazarustradingco
·3 years agoYears ago, I sold a rare and valuable table-top pinball machine. Six months later, I got a notice stating that buyer is disputing the charge to his credit card institution. Eventually, eBay decided in my favor because the delivery was validated. On that delivery, buyer actually added an online note requesting that the package be brought to the backdoor next to his garage! As it turns out, the buyer registered with UPS online with his real info and added that request. So that was probably the “smoking gun†that sealed the case for me. Not sure if this was helpful but that was my only experience with a charge-back.
kayoye74
OP3 years agoWhat I don’t understand about all this is why should this be first entertained by eBay? This should have been between the buyer and eBay.
reallynicestamps
·3 years ago@kayoye74
EBay 's Managed Payments processed the credit card payment and have some responsibility for that.
Card often have a chargeback period of 180 days.
AmEx has a 12 month chargeback on some of their cards, which is another reason merchants detest AmEx.
And the purchase of the product, source of the disputed address, and the purchase of the shipping label were eBay.
EBay doesn't offer much Seller Protection , but there is some.
mam98031
·3 years agoBecause you are the seller. That is why. You were the one that got the money. I know because what they are claiming you'd think it would be between Ebay and the Credit Card Company, but it isn't. Ebay did not get the money for the transaction, you did.
chpgts
·3 years agoThe payment processor accepted this purchase. The seller has absolutely nothing to do with the credit card authorization process. As long as you shipped the item to the address listed on invoice and you have proof of delivery you should not be charged. The payment processor company assumed the risk and got paid a percentage of the sale.
If by some chance you are charged, I would file a complaint with the FTC.
reallynicestamps
·3 years agoThat's adorable.
In the meantime, the OP has to respond as several long standing sellers have recommended above if they want to keep their money.
mam98031
·3 years agoAll true, expect that thems not the rules for a Credit Card Company. All payment processor has to acknowledge and accept that CCCs have the right to file chargebacks if they deem it necessary. Any payment processor that doesn't agree to that can't process that particular CC.
The payment processor is verifying that the CC is good and has the room on the credit limit to accept the charge they are trying to make. Funds available. They don't guarantee that the buyer won't later change their mind or otherwise have a problem with the transaction.
What you describe is if it was an INR. And Ebay has excellent seller protection for INRs that have tracking showing delivered. However this buyer did not say they didn't get the item. They said they didn't authorize the charge.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoRight. Item shipped to the correct address on the account processed correctly by the payment processor. CC company looks at this should really be a done deal. Unless recipient has some compelling evidence that this item was not received by them.
kayoye74
OP3 years agoWhat is FTC?
mam98031
·3 years ago@kayoye74
FTC = Federal Trade Commission
https://www.ftc.gov/