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Final Value Fees Charged on VAT taxes & telephone call response
I very recently sold a Trumpet to a buyer in France.
Selling price, $775.00
Import tax (VAT) charges, $178.56
Fee based on $953.56
x 10% $95.36
Top rated seller discount $9.54
International fee $953.56 x 1.65% = $15.73
Final value fee $0.30
Total fees $101.85
When I called ebay to complain, I was not very nice, on the phone. This crap about adding taxes to the sale total, and then charging the sellers a fee on the total is a bunch of CRAP !
They called me on 8/13/23 at 21:37 EDT , call lasted 5 minutes.
At 21:44 ebay called me back the phone rang 1/2 a ring, no time for me to answer, and they cut the call off.
At 21:27, I received a non reply email, from ebay, stating that your recent request for a call back was tried, and they could not make contact with me to check my account settings
BULL CRAP, they deleted my first conversation recording, and used the short call as the so-called attempt to contact me.
SNEAKY way of not noting my complaint.
How many of you sellers complain about this taxation / final value fee crap, ebay has going on?
trader-bobs
kh-stanley1
·2 years agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoWhen I called ebay to complain
eBay does not care whether sellers like their fees or not.
SNEAKY way of not noting my complaint
You are vastly overestimating your importance if you think eBay is going to "note" your complaint.
How many of you sellers complain about this taxation
They see, like I do, that half a year later you are still selling on their site.
marnotom!
·2 years agoAnd may even take note that the OP still offers direct international shipping.
marnotom!
·2 years agoMy take on eIS’s shipping charges as a Canadian buyer are that eIS’s shipping charges are pretty competitive with USPS’s counter rates. What buyers see on the listing page, however, is the eIS shipping charge plus what the seller is charging for shipping the item to the eIS forwarding hub (e.g. suburban Chicago). This is one reason why eIS is perceived as pricey. (I won’t get into the issue of sellers not providing enough info on the packaged item’s shipping size and weight.)
Sellers who offer free shipping within the contiguous 48 often have half-decent looking eIS shipping charges, at least to where I am in Canada.
stephenmorgan
·2 years agoBased on my experience a small packet of 2 pounds or less shipping can be had for about $5 less then EIS.
Depending on the value of the packet you have to decide is it worth paying the 1.65% International fee to save the buyer an extra $5 in shipping cost. Maybe you would gain more international sales?
Of course if something goes wrong you would have to take care of it and not eBay.
sapphire_studio
·2 years agoI use the EIS program. However I do know that it is a lot more expensive for the buyers then if I would ship myself with USPS, and so I'm potentially losing a lot of sales over it.
There's a lot higher of percentage of people overseas (vs domestically) that seem to want to try to get free beauty products through one scam or another so for me it's worth being in the program. But I don't think a lot of people in the program realize the sales they're losing by not offering a cheaper international shipping option that is maybe a little bit more work and more risky. I think if I ever was a bigger seller I would probably wrap my head around shipping internationally myself and then that extra income from the extra sales would cover any of the scammers that pop up.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoI use the EIS program. However I do know that it is a lot more expensive for the buyers then if I would ship myself with USPS, and so I'm potentially losing a lot of sales over it.
I am not sure how much "more expensive" it is for the buyer when items go through the EIS program but obviously there is some cost increase due to the buyer having to pay for two shipping legs. I have not had time to do a cost analysis of the difference between shipping directly and going through EIS.
There's a lot higher of percentage of people overseas (vs domestically) that seem to want to try to get free beauty products through one scam or another so for me it's worth being in the program. But I don't think a lot of people in the program realize the sales they're losing by not offering a cheaper international shipping option that is maybe a little bit more work and more risky. I think if I ever was a bigger seller I would probably wrap my head around shipping internationally myself and then that extra income from the extra sales would cover any of the scammers that pop up.
I tend to be a bit more on the risk adverse side so I never sold internationally before the GSP was in place and now it's follow on, the EIS program. Even with GSP I limited the countries I would sell/ship to because the seller protections were not quite as robust under GSP as they are with EIS. Under EIS I sell to virtually all foreign countries other than those eBay restricts or that I have moral issues with.
The one down side to EIS for a number of sellers has been the EIS program shipping constraints. The GSP as well as direct shipping allowed you to ship about anything as long as it was legal to do so and met the import requirements of the country the item was going to. EIS has excluded a number of items and categories as well as placed a $ cap on the items and size and weight restrictions that make it non-viable for some sellers. following are a few of those items that are not eligible for EIS.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoWhen I called ebay to complain
I think this formula for calculating fees has been in place ever since Managed Payments was implemented. And it is clearly documented in the fee schedule.
The fact that eBay was not responsive to your complaint seems logical to me. If I called Toyota to complain that the prices of their pickup trucks are too high, I doubt they would be very responsive either.
What outcome were you expecting from a subcontracted customer support representative reading from a script?
lacemaker3
·3 years agoThis was a complicated situation, and there have been several posts on this thread with incorrect information or assumptions. I have tried to sort it out, and figure out the fees correctly, at least based on the available information from the OP and Terapeak.
Note; I am not positive that this listing would have qualified for a TRS+ discount. It doesn't show the badge, and it appears that in the Musical Instruments and Gear category, the seller would have had to accept returns (buyers pay the return shipping) in order to qualify for TRS+. I think this is the only part of the fees that may not be clear at this point.
However, I have included the TRS+ discount, because OP reported that it was received.
mam98031
·3 years agoWhen Ebay calculates the FVF on shipping for an international shipment it considers what the shipping rate was for a Domestic shipment. The FVF is charged on the rate the seller charges for Domestic shipping NOT what the international rate is. And if the seller has Free Shipping for their Domestic shipping, there is not FVF on the shipping amount for an international shipment. This has been the rule for many years.
In EIS, it is easily seen because the seller is only charged a FVF for the Domestic leg of the shipment.
If the seller is in EIS they also do not pay a FVF on VAT.
lacemaker3
·3 years agoYes, I know. That's what I said.
cardxcraft
·3 years agoI've sold a healthy amount of items through EIS and I've never been charged a fvf on VAT. The fvf via EIS are for the item cost and domestic shipping.
Below is a screen shot of a recent EIS sale: $51 (cost of item) + $5(domestic shipping)
â—fvf charged on $56
 
mam98031
·3 years agoThis isn't a transaction the OP is talking about. Was what you showed from a different thread?
We don't know if the OP is in EIS, they have not answered any questions yet.
slippinjimmy
·3 years agoYes we know, I looked at the listing, it offered USPS International Priority direct
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoYes we know, I looked at the listing, it offered USPS International Priority direct
This is a bit of an odd one. I too looked at the listing and something is not adding up. If it is the following item the buyer does not offer shipping to France so buyer must have contacted seller and worked out the shipping. OP did not provide, other than the typed out breakdown of the fees. The FVF on musical instruments is only 6.35%. The total cost the OP used for the calculation was $953.56 which was comprised of the selling price and the VAT but no shipping so not sure what OP and buyer worked out with regards to shipping, assuming it was free although it is calculated for domestic buyers.
I won't even attempt to nail down the VAT tax in any foreign country I can't even sort out the 10,000+ individual sales tax rates in the US. Whether the item was subject to VAT and at what percent but the VAT amount the OP posted in their calculations of $178.56 would be about a 23% VAT rate.
The international fee has always been a PITA and something eBay should have eliminated a long time ago. They finally did so under the EIS program but it remains in place for non EIS sales.
I am not happy with the FVF's on sales tax but I know it is in eBay's policy and I factor it in when setting my prices so buyer is paying those costs. As others stated eBay does not apply the FVF to VAT when the item ships through the EIS program.
Something not adding up about OP's numbers but I do not ship internationally outside of the EIS program so I am not up to speed on how eBay calculates and applies fees, other than the international fee, to those transactions.
mam98031
·3 years agoI brought much of that up in an earlier post. The OP doesn't seem to want to participate in the thread, so it is unlikely we will ever know what is really going on. I agree it doesn't add up.
As to the 1.65% FVF on international sales. This is something sellers have paid since we went to electronic payments with PayPal. But when we used PP, many sellers just didn't realize they were paying the fee, but they were. Ebay is just doing the same thing. Ebay could not have stopped the fee while our money was processed through PP.
Since Ebay is more transparent with the fees being charged is why more sellers became aware of it.
One of the perks of using EIS is that sellers do not pay this fee anymore. There are other perks so, but specifically about this fee, it goes away.
janet9988
·3 years agoThe OP sold a TRUMPET... NOT a guitar or base. 😊
trader-bobs
OP3 years agoSure don't know where this 6.35% fee is ? Sounds more like a Reverb fees, not MAMA eBay. trader-bobs
theteamsetguy
·2 years ago@trader-bobs ,
Went to the Reverb website and it looks like they charge their fee on the Whole transaction amount also. No different than eBay. It looks like their fees are slightly lower however. I don't know if the have any other fees like listing fees or foreign transaction fees. I didn't research that part of it.
Selling fees for Reverb are 5% of the total value of the transaction, including shipping. You pay only when your item sells. Your fee is based on the total selling price, inclusive of all costs.
handsonthewatch
·2 years agotheir fees are almost 3 times lower. TO say "slightly lower" is quite the understatement.
trader-bobs
OP3 years agoCalculate your fees, if this was a $775.00 sale. Apples are apples, and oranges are oranges, trader-bobs
slippinjimmy
·3 years agoYes FVF's are charged on VAT just as they are on US Sales Tax, yes it's true VAT is usually double or more what US Sales Tax is so it's quite a fee bite.
This has been how fees have been calculated for about 3 years. You don't have to like it but there is nothing you can do about it.
As @mam98031 mentions, the FVF on VAT does not apply if you use Ebay International Shipping (EIS) instead of shipping direct, also the 1.65% International fee is waived when using EIS.
I ship direct Internationally (not USPS) but I have room for a healthy handling Charge included in my shipping rates that usually covers the additional eBay fees (and more).
cardxcraft
·3 years agoSorry, I didn't read the end of your post before I commented about fvf on EIS.
handsonthewatch
·2 years ago“Nothing you can do about itâ€. Yeah. And people like you are the reason that there’s nothing we can do about it. They are charging us a fvf on import taxes that we have no choice in. Unless we learn every countries taxes and not allow purchases. How about states? Some states have insane taxes. Why can’t we block those states? I can sell a $100 item and pay $12.50 in fees in one state. And yet if someone in one of the close to 10% sales tax state buys form me, now I pay extra? Some countries it’s anywhere from 25-35%? Everyone has just given up and is taking this hit because they believe people like you. Or the countless people that say “PayPal charged on sales tax too!†Yeah. 2.9%. Because provided a service, so they charge for that, no matter where the money comes from. eBay, does not provide a service above processing the money. So charging 12.5% is in no way equal to “well everyone chargers for processing taxes!â€. Or to anyone they claims eBay helps us by doing the taxes. No. We wouldn’t need to do sales tax as a small time seller. AND eBay gets PAID by many states to do the taxes. On top of charging us 12.5% to do the taxes lol.
So stop gaslighting people . If enough people actually believed they could get it done, we could get it done. But everyone has just given up.
mam98031
·2 years ago@handsonthewatch
Take a breath.
If you are doing your own International shipping directly to your buyer, then as per the rules of Ebay they charge you the FVF on the total amount you receive from the buyer. This holds true for all sellers whether domestic or international shippments.
However if you join EIS [Ebay International Shipping] you ship your item to a US facility for processing. The seller pays the FVF on exactly what the receive from the buyer as stated above. But in EIS what you receive is the product amount and the US shipping amount. Ebay bills the buyer for the international shipping rate from their facility and for the VAT if any. Therefore the seller never pays fees on that.
Two really big bonus regarding this program. Sellers will not pay the 1.65% additional FVF on the sale. And from the time the package is accepted at the Ebay processing facility, Ebay takes responsibility for the package. If a buyer files a claim of any kind it will be between them and Ebay, seller is not involved.
marnotom!
·2 years agoUnless I’ve missed a change brought about by the introduction of eIS, FVFs on the shipping portion of direct international shipments are still based on the seller’s lowest offered domestic shipping charge.
mam98031
·2 years agoWell that is true expect for a different reason.
In EIS the Seller ONLY received the funds from the buyer that covers the product and US shipping to the Ebay processing facility. Ebay bills the buyer for the international shipping from their processing facility to their address as well as any VAT that is due. We do not pay any FVFs on any of that.
We also don't pay the 1.65% additional FVF for the international sale.
@marnotom!
handsonthewatch
·2 years agowhat a condescending reply. But from the years of posts, it's exactly what I'd have expected from you
How about not starting replies with " take a breath". I don't need to take a breath, and NOTHING you said to me, in ANY way excuses what is being done, or counters what I said, or makes it better.. You wasted your breath.
There is ZERO REASON for ebay to charge of a final value fee of 13-16% ( assuming you didn't do promoted...), for the 20-30% import tax!! Taxes isn't a value of the item you sold! We have no control over it. We don't touch it. We don't see it. We can't say no to it.
And the point being, is that to sell international, our FVF now increases by A LOT, depending on the country. This completely goes against the purposes of what the final value fee is supposed to be for, which is a fee for the money that we make on a sale. Taxes is NOT MONEY WE MAKE ON A SALE. Stop excusing this practice , that is entirely unique to ebay, no matter how many times you people try to claim it's not. "but paypal charges a fee!". Again, for transacting money, which costs them money.
And telling me about ebays international shipping program, also has zero to do with being charged a fvf on the customs fees.
mam98031
·2 years ago@handsonthewatch
You may not like my post of a couple months ago that you are responding to now, but that doesn't change the fact that the info I provided is true.
While you may disagree with how Ebay applies their FVFs, it is their site and their rules. We can express our opinions one way or another in the hopes that one day they will update the policy in a way we like better, but until that time we have to deal with what is in place.
As I suggested before, if you want to stop paying FVFs on VAT, use the EIS program and you won't. You also won't have to pay the additional international fee of 1.65%.
"And telling me about ebays international shipping program, also has zero to do with being charged a fvf on the customs fees. " Clearly you haven't updated yourself on this program. Your statement is incorrect.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/ebay-international-shipping-program?id=5348
No one here has "excused" Ebay regarding FVFs on taxes, they have simply tried to explain things to you. You don't agree with them so you lash out at them. That changes nothing and helps nothing.
jasoheat_0
·2 years agocompletely agree
dbfolks166mt
·2 years ago“Nothing you can do about itâ€. Yeah. And people like you are the reason that there’s nothing we can do about it. They are charging us a fvf on import taxes that we have no choice in. Unless we learn every countries taxes and not allow purchases. How about states? Some states have insane taxes. Why can’t we block those states? I can sell a $100 item and pay $12.50 in fees in one state. And yet if someone in one of the close to 10% sales tax state buys form me, now I pay extra? Some countries it’s anywhere from 25-35%? Everyone has just given up and is taking this hit because they believe people like you. Or the countless people that say “PayPal charged on sales tax too!†Yeah. 2.9%. Because provided a service, so they charge for that, no matter where the money comes from. eBay, does not provide a service above processing the money. So charging 12.5% is in no way equal to “well everyone chargers for processing taxes!â€. Or to anyone they claims eBay helps us by doing the taxes. No. We wouldn’t need to do sales tax as a small time seller. AND eBay gets PAID by many states to do the taxes. On top of charging us 12.5% to do the taxes lol.
So stop gaslighting people . If enough people actually believed they could get it done, we could get it done. But everyone has just given up.
Some gave up. Personally I adapted o the situation and adjusted my pricing on the incorporation of those fees on both sales tax and shipping. Both of which are minor in my case. For sales tax FVF it amounts to about $1.06 for every $100 in value using an 8% sales tax average. Shipping is a bit more difficult due to the zones and shipping options but in most cases he pricing covers those fees and I maintain my ROI targets.
theteamsetguy
·2 years ago@handsonthewatch ,
As a seller you have to to adjust . Here is a example of an order I got today going to Canada.
The value of the sale was $35.00 before shipping and I charged the buyer $13.50 for shipping. Most sellers use USPS International first class for $14.96 and print their shipping labels on eBay. I can charge less because I don't buy labels from Ebay or at the post office.
I ship the package thru Pirate ship which charges me $8.49 to ship the package also thru the USPS. The $5.01 more than covers the FVF on shipping, 1.65% foreign buyer fee, shipping supplies, and 30 cents transaction.
On my domestic packages, since my buyers buy an average of 5 items from me I collect on average $5.50 (I charge $3.50 for the first item plus 50 cents for each additional item) for shipping per buyer. Per Pirate ship I spend an average of $4.11 per domestic shipping label. The $1.39 average I make on shipping covers the FVF on the shipping (.68) , FVF on sales tax (.19), 30 cents transaction fee, and shipping supplies (.20 bubble envelope).
Because of the way I charge my buyers shipping and handling, I pay 11.93% (13.25% minus 1.32% Top Rated Plus discount) FVF on the actual item sales price because I pass the other fees onto they buyer thru my handling charges.
I ship 4 to 5 hundred packages a month on average so the system does work.
mam98031
·2 years ago@theteamsetguy
If you join EIS, you will save even more money and Ebay takes all the risk after they accept the package at their facility.
theteamsetguy
·2 years ago@mam98031 ,
Over the years I have shipped hundreds of packages overseas and have had only a couple not arrive. Most of my foreign buyers are repeat customers because it’s cheaper for them to have me ship directly than go thru EIS.
mam98031
·2 years agoOk, EIS isn't for everyone. Don't confuse EIS with the old international shipping program as the two are not the same.
slippinjimmy
·2 years agoIt isn't, EIS is most appropriate for sellers that do not currently ship internationally directly. Also those that do some International shipping but only have access to standard USPS International services.
handsonthewatch
·2 years agoYeah, it's for the people that don't care about international shipping, so don't care that ebay charges more money, for slower shipping, with worse tracking, that most buyers can't even use or access properly, let alone the ebay reps that look into these things, that close cases against you for items clearly delivered.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoOver the years I have shipped hundreds of packages overseas and have had only a couple not arrive. Most of my foreign buyers are repeat customers because it’s cheaper for them to have me ship directly than go thru EIS.
In your case, given the items you sell, direct shipping probably makes more sense. Most of your items are probably not high targets for scammers and low risk for shipping damage or loss. You also may get buyers purchasing multiple items which you need to combine shipping on. Buyers may not be willing to pay the higher EIS shipping cost or wait for the added delay in shipping through EIS.
EIS, just like eBay itself, is not suited for shipping/selling everything it's just another tool in the sellers toolbox.
the-hook-and-the-loop
·3 years agoYour feedback score of 5,199 means you are not new to selling on eBay so how the fees are calculated should not be news and should be incorporated into your selling price.
What is important, is that you don't contact eBay through phone or chat. Those are worthless, sourced third parties to filter the volume of calls eBay receives daily. You need to contact eBay on Facebook and be patient with the process.
trader-bobs
OP3 years agoI contacted their last CEO, by registered mail so many times, we should have been on a first name basis. Like talking to the sidewalk !
trader-bobs
mam98031
·3 years agoBefore getting more upset, first lets discover all the facts.
Did you check what the actual FVFs were that your account was charged? Or did you calculate the ones that you posted above? It doesn't look like it as FVF on musical instruments is 6.35%, unless something change since the last time I looked at the fees, which is certainly possible.
Are you sure this listing was eligible for the TRS FVF discount?
Are you in EIS? This is very important.
If you are in EIS, your buyer pays you the US shipping rate from your place to the Ebay processing hub.
Sorry about all the questions. I do want to help you. I just need a little more information to do that.
trader-bobs
OP3 years agoEIS does not provide enough shipping insurance coverage for the price range of instruments I sell. All smoke and mirrors.
When I first joined EIS, I calculated a guitar sale to Germany, off EIS, at $35.00 and change. I called ebay to verify the charge I had found, they had a GREAT TAP DANCE session for me, to get themselves out of that !
FVF is actual, I have never had a 6.35%
Thanks, trader-bobs
slippinjimmy
·3 years agoWhy would you need shipping insurance for something going via EIS? You could if you wanted buy insurance via USPS for the Domestic portion of the trip but after that it's all on EIS if there is damage in transit or non-delivery for the International portion.
After delivery to the EIS eBay fully covers you for the following:
INR claims
NAD claims
Damage in Transit claims
Payment Chargeback claims
Failure to pay VAT/Duty on delivery claims
In other words your liability for ANYTHING ends when the package is successfully delivered to the Hub.
No "smoke and mirrors" whatsoever!
While it's more expensive for buyers it would NOT be more expensive for buyers if you the Seller was using USPS Priority International when shipping to Europe.
mam98031
·3 years agoIt is NOT "smoke and mirrors", it is clearly stated in the EIS policy that they only insure up to $2500. So if you need to ship something that is in excess of that, you shouldn't do it through EIS.
slippinjimmy
·3 years agoThe EIS limit of $2500 has nothing to do with insurance.
slippinjimmy
·3 years agoFurther to my previous post.....
A US Customs export declaration form must be submitted on any shipment values at US$2500 or more. I would think that EIS simply doesn't want to deal with this bit of bureaucracy.
mam98031
·3 years agoThank you for correcting me. I did word that incorrectly. I'm glad you came along to correct me. I appreciate that.
The up side is that sellers only have to worry about the package until it arrives and is accepted at the Ebay facility. Once that happens Ebay assumes the risk in EIS.