Filing small claims court case over payment dispute if the buyer wins
A buyer bought a shirt from me, the shirt was a mens size Large, there was multiple tags on the shirt stating its size (large), when the buyer received the shirt, he acknowledged that he received a size "large" shirt but claimed that the shirt did not "fit" like a size large, since i am a private seller, i rejected his return because the shirt was as described, however a month later he has opened a payment dispute with his credit card company, i have provided evidence to the dispute to show that everything was as described and that he acknowledged he received the correct size, if he wins this dispute and keeps the shirt, am i able to file a smalls claims case against him? as the shirt was pretty expensive
30 comments
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoYears ago, I sold football jersey's on Ebay.
Within a few weeks, I learned never to offer any size jersey other than XL.
I also learned that when offering anything other than US sized jersey's additional information other than the size on the tag and label were required.
IMO your scheme of measurement in the photos is not effective in easily providing that information to the buyer. Too many pictures, too few words in your listings for that to succeed.
natoman777
·1 year agoSo many sellers don't understand that eBay provides a money back guarantee, and there is no such thing as no returns. You as a seller can deny the return, but that doesn't mean that things will work out well. No matter how wrong the buyer is, most often the ball is truly in their court. I am assuming this shirt was pretty expensive. In matters like that I would always accept the return due to the cost. If one person bought it, someone else will. No reason to lose out on a jersey sale.
mam98031
·1 year ago@natoman777
I know and understand what you are trying to say. With a No return policy, that doesn't mean you won't refund a buyer. The seller can refuse to take a return, no matter what type of return policy they have, but they will need to refund the buyer.
EXCEPTION: A seller with a no return policy and the buyer files a proper Buyer Remorse Return. This seller CAN deny the Request for Return and Ebay will honor it. And that is what happened with the OP. That is what they did.
Then the buyer opened a Chargeback. Which the seller is likely to lose as is true way too often with Chargebacks. The buyer will end up being able to keep the item AND get their money back because our current laws that govern Credit Card companies allows for this.
Of course it isn't fair to a seller and if it is worth it to a seller, they can file a claim in Small Claims Court.
natoman777
·1 year ago@mam98031
Yes that extra info is of course eBay policy. Thanks for sharing that.
To clarify my point was simply that the issue mentioned here was as simple as the shirt did not fit as a usual large. Well, I had this happen to a shirt that I ordered once. The seller didn't have measurements, and the shirt was 3" wider pit to pit, and about the same in length. The seller had no returns. I told them about how huge it was, then they finally accepted the return. Literally the item wasn't as described as it was a hugely oversized large. With jerseys, if this seller doesn't provide measurements, then it is obvious that a large jersey compared to a large tshirt or shirt tends to differ. Why not just accept the return and resell the jersey instead of causing issues for yourself?
meme6253
·1 year agoI think you would have been better off just accepting the return, At least you would have the shirt back, This way it is hard to say if you will wind up with anything at all, Not sure how the courts work where you are.
whatmorefabric
·1 year agoMy Grandfather would look at me when I would dig my stubborn heels in and say, "Is this the hill you want to die on?"
You are not going to win this. Returns are a part of doing business.
glorybells
·1 year ago@whatmorefabric , I added you to my saved sellers. With Joann’s closing, I’m going to have to look to online sellers for fabric!
whatmorefabric
·1 year agoThank you. My apparel fabrics are all overstocks from the NY and LA garment districts.
Every morning. I get emails that tell me how much the new wholesale costs are going to be from tariffs. Most of the quilting cottons do not come from China, but my apparels do.
Twenty years of selling high quality discount fabrics might be down the tubes. I survived the Great Recession and Covid, but this might be too much.
jerseyboymusic
·1 year ago@kingoffootballshirtskofs
Have you ever gone to a store to buy clothes?
Have you used fitting rooms?
Even if it is your size, the garment may not fit right.
Don't know what you mean by "private seller", but you should have accepted the return
johnrj1226
·1 year agoHave bought all types of shirts since 1963 - never found more that 1 tag or stamped on size on a shirt.
Sold lots of shirts (up end stuff) on eBay and. for a size S, M, L, EX etc. Stuff from China and France seem to run smaller. A Tommy Bahamas shirt runs real big - I wear a size L with a T B. wear a size M. - there are no universal size standards. Many brands have there own size charts And have found that the size label were obviously incorrect. When selling clothing/footwear - it is important to provide measurements for critical areas on shirts, pants, shoes, boots. Heck I can't even wear any thing in footwear with the Nike label on it from an authorized store
Hope to see you on Judge Judy = but I not certain what a pretty expensive shirt means - would think it wouldn't be worth the effort plus you just might not win.
bandrhome
·1 year ago@johnrj1226 Thats for posting about Tommy Bahama shirts. I have one to list! LOL Its an XL.
OP, just take the return as stated not all clothes sizes are equal. Relist it.
johnrj1226
·1 year agoSome people like to wear big size especially if the eat lots of mostaccioli and often and a going to the beach - not me. Rather have ravioli every now and then.
femmefan1946
·1 year agoWhere I live the minimum wage is 69c a minute.
How much time and money have you wasted on this so far?
Seriously?
You would not have this problem if you had put the actual measurements of the shirt into the description instead of "measurements available on request".
Best response in 20/20 hindsight- "I regret you are not happy with your purchase. Please return it for a refund."
Either they return it on their own dime, or they open a Not As Described claim and eBay requires you to provide return shipping.
And you refund on arrival, relist and resell.
With measurements.
adamcartwright
·1 year agoSizing varies so much -- I don't know how anyone can complain about a return for fit if clear measurements are not included in the listing.
mam98031
·1 year ago@kingoffootballshirtskofs
I don't have any idea of what the rules or laws are in the UK. But here in the USA, yes a seller could file a small claims court case against the buyer if they got a full refund and were allowed to keep the product too because that is how the Credit card company ruled.
And yes, you'd sue the buyer because they are the ones that were enriched by the action of the CCC.
Sadly in the US, the laws that govern the CCC have not been updated for decades and this behavior is allowed because of it. However in a court of law, the buyer is being unduly enriched by getting their funds back in full and get to keep the product too. So it is possible for a US seller to win in small claims court if they have the proper evidence to present.
duffy4444
·1 year agoYep, I've seen a few Judge Judy cases where the buyer lost the case and was severely chewed out by her on top of it.
Laws need to be enacted or updated to keep this *bleep* from happening. It's simple common sense that if a buyer is to be refunded, even by the CC company, the item should at least FIRST be returned to the seller.
Cheers, Duffy
toysaver
·1 year agoSizing is precarious and can vary brand to brand. The same shirt in the same size can have measurements that are different. You need to include the possibility of returns in your business plan if you want to sell clothing.
fm2000
·1 year agoProblem is, you just can't win these kinds of disputes, you should have accepted the return. You may be in the right and have done everything you are told you need to do, but it doesn't matter, a buyer will always win these disputes. I am sure everyone here has this happen to them, and learned this the hard way.
Odds are, the credit card company will find in their favor and will be out your money, your shirt and you will may end up paying a chargeback "service charge" to boot (I don't know what the laws are regarding that in the UK, in the US if we lose a chargeback we are out $20 in addition to our other losses, adding insult to injury).
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoDo you respond to the dispute yet in eBay?...with the credit card company?
powell-collectibles
·1 year agoGarment makers do make mistakes. Maybe the buyer was right. We will never know!
heck, it has happened to me. I buy, almost exclusively, vineyard vines medium shirts. I got one listed as medium that was definitely small. I returned the shirt. It wasn’t my incompetence, it wasn’t because the seller was a flake - just a problem with the garment.
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoYou could, but since the buyer tried to return it, but you denied the return, not sure how it would go.
chapeau-noir
·1 year ago@kingoffootballshirtskofs This is the US chat board - you'd be better off asking this question on the UK forum as the procedures would be different.
inhawaii
·1 year agoWho would be the defendant, the customer, ebay or the credit card company?
Why not just take the loss and go on with life?
Next time, just accept the return.
kingoffootballshirtskofs
OP1 year agoWhy should i need to accept a return as a result of a buyers incompetence.
inhawaii
·1 year agoTo prevent this from happening.
Buyers lie about returns all the time.
How did denying the return work out for ya?
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoYou could have got your shirt back before refunding.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoYou don't "need" to do anything.
You can do whatever you want.
Please let us know how much it ends up costing you.
chariot_badges
·1 year agoOOooooo. Oooooo, I know. Ask me! I know the answer ...
Is it ... because YOU AGREED TO?
In writing?
Is there a concept of 'contract' in the UK?
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·1 year agoTo get the shirt back and avoid all this rigmarole.
albertabrightalberta
·1 year agoBecause your listings offer a return policy! When you have a return policy, buyers can return items for ANY reason or for NO reason.
EDIT: If the buyer opened a claim for NAD (not as described), you have no option even if you didn't have a return policy.