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Extra fee for Very High "Item not as described"
Got a couple scam requests from the buyers stating that my item was not as described. Even if it was very oblivious eBay anyway took the buyers side and forced me to accept a return and refund the buyers. I reported them, put in black list, but now eBay is charging me an extra fee for Very High "Item not as described". Is there a way to appeal ? Every time I call eBay support I have a feeling that the only thing they want is to hang up the phone on me as soon as they can. Nobody really wants to help the sellers. Thanks
26 comments
kh-stanley1
·2 years agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
mam98031
·3 years ago@se_appl
What "black list"??
These two INADs did not cause you to start having to pay a penalty fee for too many INADs. First you have to have a minimum of 10 of them to even start being compared to your Peers in the Service Metrics. Then if compared to your Peers if you are deemed to be TO HIGH on the comparison, then you are in the penalty fees.
What does your Service Metric comparison say? BTW your penalty fees will only be charged on the specific category that you went into the Too High in the Service Metrics.
Keep in mind that you get a ding in the Service metrics every time an INAD is opened. It doesn't matter why the INAD was opened nor does the outcome of that INAD matter. It is based on the simple fact it got opened.
Now if your problem is DEFECTS. Then that is from your Seller Dashboard and that would be related to INADs that you allowed Ebay to step in on and they found in the buyer's favor. So you need to be aware of the two different ways Ebay evaluates you every 20th of the month for the period ending the previous month.
se_appl
OP3 years agoBlack list means I'm blocking this buyer to buy anything from me in the future. I also report all of the scammers to eBay but I don't really think there is anyone is looking on it.
I sell the appliance parts only, new and used, so all of them fall into the one category. Here is my metrics:
mam98031
·3 years agoThat is commonly known as the BBL [Blocked Bidder List].
Reporting misbehaving buyers or sellers is important. Ebay does collect the data. Members often say they don't think Ebay does anything with the information, usually because Ebay doesn't tell you what they did if anything. And they never will. Any sanctions they take may not be visible to anyone but the member being sanction. It just isn't public knowledge, nor should it be.
So your issue is in the Service metrics. That is a pretty big percentage difference with your peers. It will likely take you a bit of time to work out of this. Anything you sell in the Home & Garden category will carry the penalty fees.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·3 years agoThere's essentially laws called "Warrants of Merchantability" and when speaking of any credit or debit card transaction these are at play on both the merchant and buyer side NO MATTER WHAT ANYTHING in say a listing might say. Law trumps listing.
You could sell a broken down car and get a check, money order, cash but if you were to say get payment electronically via PayPal or any of those others the buyer can make claim, that simple.
Warrants of Merchantability are important, this is why Amazon for example dumps pallets of return goods to resellers for dirt. There's liability and there are differing Warrants of Merchantability on the books, Federal Laws and sometimes in certain situations the custody chain in whole may be hit by said laws. For example, way way way when back Walmart got slammed for selling clothing that ended up having larvae in the collars of clothes they were selling and that went all the way through the custody chain.
Amazon dumps those pallets because reselling knowingly defective goods is in direct contrast to portion of Warrants of Merchantability law and is against their merchant agreement with Visa/MC etc. They dump the pallets putting onus and liability on the receiver of said pallets just as you don't see Walmart taking any open return placing it back on shelves. Heck Walmarts been nailed many many times for placing meats back into coolers that sit in abandoned carts.
pjcdn2005
·3 years ago@se_appl
According to the sellers metric page you must have 10 nad cases from 10 unique buyers in order to be charged extra. You might be able to go through each nad with a customer service rep and get one or two taken off but I don't know how feasible that is. According to the policy, they are only taken off done so by the 'automatic seller protection'. You might get more information from the following link. There is info about appeals near the bottom of the page.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-performance-policy/service-metrics-policy?id=4769&st=3&pos=2&query=Service%20metrics%20policy&intent=service%20metrics&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1424
rosachs
·3 years agoThis is directed at all readers, not just PJ. Here's my thoughts on this...
Appealing a defect takes time. Time the seller could probably better use for listing or prepping for listing. eBay knows this. They know that the more time they can add to the process, beginning to end, the less likely the seller will be to fight when they are right, and that means less expense for eBay from Rep payroll and returned refunds.
It's like coupons - a very few folks twist their shopping enough to make massive use of coupons to save buckets of money. But most of us just don't have the time... altho we will clip a coupon or two, which brings us into the store, where we tend to buy more than just what's on the coupon. Same for restaurant coupons -- the restaurant still breaks even or better if you use the coupon, but they are counting on you to either forget to bring it/use it, and/or that you'll buy more (appetizers and/or desserts) and make your check even more profitable for them.
Customer service, for cash-wielding customers, is a gloriously complicated dance, with eBay holding all the marionette strings.
stainlessenginecovers
·3 years agoIt USED to be 'returns' were kept track of against your metrics; too many for any reason, and/or too many for 'item not described' and you could have to pay the piper.
Now, I believe- they are NOT counted against your metrics as long as YOU, the Seller, refund the buyer after the return is approved, by YOU, within 48 hours of receiving the item back upon a return. If you 'stall' and 'fight it' and ebay has to REFUND FOR YOU- that is a Metric that will Cost you Dearly.
Unless that has also changed??
Anyone?
Bueller, Bueller?
pjcdn2005
·3 years agoGeneral reply -
If the seller doesn't refund before buyer asks ebay to step in then the sellers gets an unresolved claim defect. I don't think that is the case in the op's case. They mentioned that they have a Very High nad claim which refers to seller metrics, not defects. As @buyselljack2016 mentioned, each nad counts in that metric even the buyer opens a claim and doesn't follow through by sending the item back. If a seller's percentage is very high as compared to their 'peers' they can be charged extra fvf on other sales in that same category.
If your rate of 'Item not as described' return requests is evaluated in your service metrics as Very High in the evaluation on the 20th of the month in one or more categories, you will be charged an additional 5% on the final value fees for sales in those categories in the following calendar month. You can view your personalized service metrics on your Service Metrics dashboard in Seller Hub
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4822#section6
I thought the additional charge was raised to 5% but perhaps that is just for a below standard rating.
pjcdn2005
·3 years agoI thought the additional charge was raised to 5% but perhaps that is just for a below standard rating.
OOPS. I meant to type raised to 6%.
se_appl
OP3 years agoI got only 1 case when eBay stepped in. I appealed and got email that I will be refunded and this case won't go against my metrics. However, I can see this case and all others, when I refunded the buyers right away, in my statistics. To me it looks like all the returns go against your metrics, no matter if eBay stepped in or no
rosachs
·3 years agoThere are two metrics affected by Return Request and INAD cases. On is a simple percentage of sales that generated a Request/Case within a master category. This is the metric where eBay shows you how many sales you made in a category, how many ended in Return/INAD, and what that percentage is - by master category. Those categories where you are higher than your peers, your FVF will be changed. Those categories where you are doing better than you peers, your FVF is not affected. This means if the Clothing master category has a peer average of 40% returns, and your sales generated 38% returns, you're fine. If your sales generated 41% returns, you'll pay the higher FVF until your percentage drops below your peers. If enough of your peers drop their numbers as well, that 40% target may also start to drop, making it more challenging to get below peer average.
The other metric that will affect you is the "eBay Stepped In" count -- the number of times a buyer opened a Return or INAD and you didn't resolve it before the buyer was allowed to escalate the claim to eBay Customer Service. Since eBay had to step in, you get a defect. These defects directly affect your status -- Top Rated, Above Average, Null, and Below Average. That 'null' is the gap between the end of Above Average and be beginning of Below Average. eBay doesn't seem to recognize Average...
These step-in metrics are calculated in one of two ways: active sellers with transaction counts over some arbitrary number are calculated on a percentage basis -- and 0.5% is the separator between Top Rated and Above Average. If you have a lower transaction count, you are given a fixed number -- exceed that number and your rating drops.
The change in status from Top-Rated to Above Average to Average to Below Average primarily affects your visibility on the site. Best Match search results take seller status into account - your listing gets 'scored' based on a number of factors and higher scores get better visibility. Visibility = Opportunity to sell. To the best of my knowledge, status does not directly affect your FVF rate... just your ability to reach customers and make sales.
-Bob.
spreadlovelikefire
·3 years agoIt changed in 2018 I believe. Now, if a buyer opens an item not as described, wrong item sent, not authentic, or item damaged return, all those would go on your service metrics. Your service metrics are compared to your peer group (which is an allusive number that we are not privy to) and if you are deemed to high then you get slapped with 5% extra fees. This happens no matter how quickly you refund the buyer. This happens even if the buyer claims they opened it up incorrectly. This happens even if eBay closes the return and gives the buyer a refund with their funds as a courtesy. Simply, it happens no matter what. They stay on your service metrics for 3 months.
buyselljack2016
·3 years ago...
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoLast I knew, unless something has changed:
Those INAD return requests count as a ding with "comparison to peers" , "very high %age" even when approved.
Those INAD return requests count as a ding with "comparison to peers" , "very high %age" even when approved, and the buyer does not actually follow through.
The higher fee could be a result of "below standard" for cases "not resolved by seller" when eBay has to "step in".
simba6
·3 years agoeBay is very serious about too many bad feedback for the same issue. I strongly suggest you stop selling any items that you think have the slightest chance of that. eBay is NOT stingy handing out life time selling bans over it. It looks like you have one foot in the grave already.
se_appl
OP3 years agoI sell the appliance parts, new and used. It's unable to predict. Another example. I sold a rail support for a ice bucket. Customer opened a return request stating that he wanted to buy a left rail but I shipped him a right one. But my listing had never showed that this rail is left or right. Right rail has its own part number that is different from the left rail part number. Once I got return request I called eBay support and they told me that the only option I have is to accept return. Of course it damaged my metrics
mtgraves7984
·3 years agoeBay anyway took the buyers side and forced me to accept a return and refund the buyers.
@se_appl
Moving forward, it's best to be proactive and deal with Return requests before eBay steps in. Your Seller Metrics suffer a strike every time eBay has to manage your business for you. Upward and onward and all...
se_appl
OP3 years agoAbout a half of the return requests I got was a scam or a buyer mistake, however, eBay forced me to approve them. For example, I sell a damaged item, listing shows it's damaged, description shows, it's damaged, pictures show it's damaged. Buyer opens return request because item arrived damaged. EBay forces me to take this item back and it hits my statistics. What can I as a seller do to this?
rosachs
·3 years agoThis is the direct result of an obscure FTC ruling that was put in place way back in the day of mail order catalog sales. A lot of those 'catalogs' were really just scams to get people to send money and receive trash or damaged goods. So the US Government stepped in with consumer protections - one of which is an FTC ruling that if a buyer files a complaint regarding a purchase delivered via 'common carrier' (UPS, FedEx, USPS, DHL, etc), that the seller is held liable to either replace the purchase to the buyer's satisfaction or refund the buyer in full. Failure carried a fine and possible criminal charges.
eBay is required to either enforce that ruling or be held liable for the actions of it's sellers. When a buyer opens a Return Request, they are 'filing a complaint' as required by the FTC ruling. The seller then has to either refund or reship, unless they can convince the buyer to rescind the Request.
eBay has, I suspect with legal research & support, determined that if the buyer opens a Return Request because they simply changed their mind, that the FTC ruling does not apply, which I would agree with -- it's a simple return, not a damaged goods or not-as-described product. In those cases, since the FTC ruling does not apply, the seller is allowed the option to deny the Request. Buyers can only file one Request per purchase - if the file a Changed Mind request which is denied, they cannot file an Not As Described request after being denied. One bite of the apply. They -would- be allowed to file an Item Not Received case, except their previous Changed Mind Return Request would nullify the "I never got it" part of the claim.
Buyers who have a Request denied are still free to file a chargeback with their financial institution, but those folks are not as lenient as they once were and may not accept the chargeback request. Or if they do, eBay will send them the chain-of-events regarding the transaction and allow the financial institution to make the call (first the buyer said this, then they said that, now they are telling you something else).
Returns bite. They consume time, they nullify the invested time in shipping the original order... they just basically consume profits for no real benefit. Sellers who hand our partial or full refunds upon simple "I'm not happy" messages from buyers simply increase the odds that the buyers will try it again. Requiring the customer to open a Return Request creates a record on the buyer's account on eBay. eBay monitors these kinds of things -- otherwise seller's wouldn't be suspended for this or that offense. When a buyer's Return Request ratio gets high enough, I would assume a 'deep dive' is performed, part automated, part by a thinking, reasoning human, and if a pattern of abuse is found, the buyer is dealt with accordingly. But this requires sellers to require Return Requests and stop handing out free refunds with no recovery of product or record on eBay.
If you think eBay Returns are bad, I could tell you horror stories about Returns on Amazon - one of my clients lost close to $20K of pending payments, for products shipped in the previous 1/2 month, when their account was suspended for 'too many returns'. AMZ just made the call, sent the notice, closed the account, and pocketed the not-yet-release payments. The claim was that the funds, or what remained of them after any further customer returns were processed, would be refunded to my client after a set period of time. It's since been much much much longer than that timeframe and no refund has been received... but the client is still receiving, some 2+ years after account closure, that funds were deducted for customer refund requests.
If you think eBay Returns are bad, you need to talk to sellers on other venues. Crooks are crooks regardless of the venue.
-Bob.
mtgraves7984
·3 years agoBuyer opens return request because item arrived damaged. EBay forces me to take this item back and it hits my statistics. What can I as a seller do to this?
@se_appl
As a seller, you can approve such Return requests when you receive them... long before eBay forces them. As you've experienced, eBay hits your Seller Metrics every time they're called upon. So again... be proactive. Good luck.
fashunu4eeuh
·3 years agoYour experience is why i do not list broken items for sale on eBay. Too much risk.
When a buyer opens a Not As Described case, the seller is on the hook for return shipping and a full refund. This is the case even if the claim is bogus. It is in your interests not to fight this system until after the refund, when you can appeal the case (see link below).
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-ebay%E2%80%99s-decision-return-missing-item-sellers?id=4369
evry1nositswindy
·3 years agoThere is no appealing. The numbers on your seller dashboard don't lie. The only way to bring the percentage down is sell more items with no problems. Have you been keeping an eye on your dashboard? You should have been aware of this before the extra fee kicked in.
https://sellerstandards.ebay.com/dashboard
se_appl
OP3 years agoWell, I didn't even know that they count returns. Now my rate is extra high. Whats gonna happen next if I will get more returns?
rosachs
·3 years agoEventually, I would guess, they would suspend your ability to post into specific categories. If too many categories are affected, they may suspend your account fully. I've never personally gotten that far, nor have any of the companies I assist in dealing with eBay issues. So I'm just guessing here.
On those 'damaged goods' listings -- I personally had two similar Returns, one which eBay overturned the refund and one which they did not. Both were the same product - bulk lots of new-in-package unscanned cellphones from retail bankruptcy sales. The phones were all listed "as-is/for parts" since I was unsure if they would be usable on any service without that register scan (these were all prepaid phones, not postpaid/contract phones). Two buyers complained that they did not get what they thought they were buying - one said the phones were only good for parts, the other that there were parts missing. eBay's definition of 'as-is/for parts' condition covers both of those -- the product may be broken, missing pieces, or requiring service to regain operational status. The Returns never should have been allowed based on the condition status used.
The refund from the only good for parts Return was overruled and returned to me. The phones had been returned, so I simply relisted them and someone else understood the condition and was satisfied with their purchase.
The refund from the missing pieces Return was left standing, without a sufficient reason as to why. My assumption is that I had stated the phones were new in retail packaging but did not mention that some of the packages had been damaged/opened, altho I -did- mention that I could not confirm all pieces were present.
Based on those two Returns, I changed the template I use for these bulk lots and haven't had any similar issues. Of course, the original template worked just fine for several years before those two Returns, but I guess things change and templates need to adapt.
It would be nice if more detail about -why- a refund was left standing were supplied. But that would require eBay to be able to determine who was a decent seller and who was a nasty scammer, so only the decent sellers would learn why things worked out that way, and the nasty scammers would be left wondering. Which is probably why they don't share a lot of decision background with members, buyer or seller -- it's hard to tell the good from the bad sometimes.
-Bob.
johnsurplussalvage
·2 years agoIf you are a '' VOLUNTEER COMMUNITY MENTOR '' I [ in my opinion ] would suggest something other than '' YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS '' ! as an ''answer '' . The answer seems to be ''SELL MORE ITEMS '' as I have seen repeated ad nauseam all over the forums . Does anyone ever question this approach ? The buyer who seems to be the only one in this triangle who is taken care of ......wait a minute ! This does very little for the buyer / purchaser of my items and only benefits .....who? EBAY ! Taking another 5% from an already hefty slap in the face is akin to being kicked when you're down . I have to obtain the product , post said product and find a customer by paying EBAY to '' PROMOTE '' it ! Amazing .....all you need to do is give EBAY more money ! The customer is helped out how ?