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Empty envelopes are being returned, Ebay does nothing
The scam of returning an empty envelope instead of your product is becoming more common. We sell one item ( 21 years) and it weighs 2 lbs. shipped in a 6x6x6 box. We have received an empty envelope from two different people on two different occasions. They use the same weight as shipping label...this is a USPS violation and we filled out the paperwork. But the real issue is >>> Why would eBay return their money when we send them all the pictures, paperwork needed to look at these scams??? They have the product and their money, we lose completely...eBay sends us emails "your seller rating is below what it should be" >>> Yes because eBay accepted their **bleep** return, screwed me, >>> what don’t they get?
luckythewinner
·1 year agoWhy would eBay return their money when we send them all the pictures, paperwork needed to look at these scams?
Probably because if they did, unscrupulous sellers would send eBay fake pictures and paperwork and claim their buyers returned an empty envelope when they really did not.
blackberry_hills
·1 year agoThe reason this scam has become so widespread on eBay (we've been hit 7 times now in just a few years) is because the scammers are getting paid by eBay for their returns, without them returning the items purchased. They are making money with this scam. Here is what is happening, which is what happened with my last event.
We sold an item for $175, weighing 3 lbs. The buyer in turn claimed it was defective and started a return, sending back only an empty envelope. So I called eBay, which I had done several times in the past when this happened. They said I have two options. I could either refund the buyer 50%, in which case the return would be closed, or I could refund them entirely, and then appeal that to eBay. (I am still in complete shock of this policy.) I understand eBay is trying to solve the issue, but this WILL NOT WORK. This policy is actually why this scam has become so prevalent, because these scammers are making money. Granted, eBay has covered me for some of these losses in the past when I appealed (but not all), which is appreciated, but the buyer is still being refunded.
Here is how it works. If you refund the buyer and then appeal to eBay, eBay first sends the refund to the buyer, and then decides whether to cover you (the seller) or not, out of their own pocket. That's all well and good, but the scam WILL NOT STOP IF THE BUYER IS BEING PAID!!
This policy is set up to protect sellers (which it actually doesn’t in the long run) but it is not set up to stop the scam, hence the reason the scam has become so prevalent. Even if you choose to send only 50% back to the buyer (although at least there is that) the buyer still gets to keep the product at half price. They then turn around and sell the product on eBay (it happened to us) at less than the original price, competing with your sales of the item on eBay. So, in the long run, the seller takes a loss twice. AND, eBay doesn’t always cover the seller if they opt to refund the full amount and then start an appeal. So there is that gamble also if you, the seller, chooses to send a full refund and then appeal to eBay.
The only way for this scam to stop is if eBay stops refunding the buyer. This last go around I called eBay and asked to speak to a supervisor. I explained the situation, and told them that eBay’s policy is not working. The scammers will not stop if eBay keeps refunding them. Finally, the supervisor understood my point and opened a case, AND, then closed the case in our favor, NOT refunding the buyer. THAT IS HOW THESE EVENTS NEED TO BE HANDLED, (but without having to contact a supervisor). This is the policy change that needs to be implemented if this scam is to stop.
I told the supervisor my main goal here is not to receive the refund, but to try to get eBay to understand that their policy in this situation is not working, that they are actually causing the scam to continue. These scammers cannot be paid anything. If the scammers don’t make money, there is nothing in it for them, and they will stop. The supervisor agreed and stated he will send that message up the chain to make eBay aware of their (poor) policy, and hopefully make a change.
If everyone who has been a victim of this scam contacts eBay and asks for a supervisor, requesting the same, perhaps eBay will make the change. EBay DOES do a very good job, actually, of listening to buyers and sellers about their policies. I’ve been with eBay since 1998 on a few usernames, and have contacted eBay several times over the years about poor policies. They did make several changes upon my recommendations. So I do know they are concerned about us, more so than any other platform I’ve been on. So if we all voice our concerns to them, maybe they will make the changes necessary to get rid of this fraud. The main change before anything must be that they CANNOT PAY THE SCAMMERS. That is the only way to get this fraud to stop.
ironrider30
·1 year agoI received few Return packages from seller its just a empty envelope there is fraud going on and eBay should do something to stop these buyers .
simba6
·2 years agoIt's the on line five finger discount. Just have to build the cost into your pricing. Taking away the risk of being " perp walked " to the mall security office makes it too easy.
ezgeneratorswitch
OP2 years agoIm pretty sure this is a scam.. scam seller sells our product to mr X. then Scam seller buys from us but ships to MrX.
Scam seller gets paid from Mr X then asks for a return thru Ebay. Scam seller sends an empty envelope tells Ebay they returned it. Scam seller gets paid from Mr X and Ebay sends him his money back. Ebay could care less that scam seller never returned prodcut.. we are out product and scam seller gets paid 2x
NOW... any suggestions on how to avoid?
inhawaii
·2 years agoHow to avoid being scammed selling online?
Don't sell online.
chariot_badges
·2 years agoIf you sell stuff ... you are going to get stung.
Sooner or later. You will.
And it doesn't matter if you sell out of your used book store down on Main Street, or an online venue. Somebody is going to get into your pocket.
Usually, it's the government ripping us off, but we're numb to that.
There's actually a line item on a General Ledger for "shrinkage and losses".
Breakage and theft.
It happens.
Don't sell anything on line that you can't afford to lose.
Reflect 'shrinkage' in your list price.
You don't pay that - your customers do.
If you're shrinkage rate is 2%, then you need to add $0.20 to the sales price of that $10 item.
I bet you'll find that your rate of shrinkage is a fraction of a fraction of a point ... don't trip over pennies.
ezgeneratorswitch
OP2 years agoYou are 100% correct. we lose very little ...probably 1%. I believe what is annoying is Ebay doesn't get
when someone, anyone, a scammer sends back a empty envelope. Why would you refund them the cost of the item?
robbie31415
·2 years agoBecause a bad seller who is salty about a return could lie and say they never sent back even though they did.
Just accept you will have to refund.
Ebay gives 50% mitigation for TRS with 30 day returns and non TRS with free 30 day returns.
This is how it is. If you don't refund, expect a defect on your account.
mybigsale
·2 years ago@ezgeneratorswitch
As far as eBay is concerned, sellers have a slim chance if any for the case you describe. You should report the buyer for internet and mail fraud and fill out police reports for theft. I have heard of eBay providing sellers courtesy refunds when sellers provide evidence with a police report.
At best, you can recover 50% of the purchase price if you offer free returns (check qualifications for your future sales):
See: How to deduct from the buyer's refund when the item is returned in a different condition
How to handle a return request as a seller | eBay
Seller protections | eBay
inhawaii
·2 years agoEbay automatically sides with the buyer because they can't investigate each and every claim such as yours.
The good news is, that if enough sellers report the same buyer for the same violation, I would think ebay would take action and put an end to it.
Sorry this happened to you.