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Embargoed Goods ????
Hello everyone!
I wish when eBay makes changes they tell us 'the sellers'.
I woke up to 4 listings taken off by eBay....only 4 items!
Still half asleep this morning I took off the other '38' more myself.
I suspect one of my competitor's reported 4 items and that is why they were ended?
I have to believe that since I still had 38 listed.
Russia has been quietly put on the embargoed goods policy by eBay.
No one told me.
I guess it's open season to report all these sellers selling Russia stamps.
Nothing with the name Russia can now be sold.
32 comments
adamcartwright
·1 year ago@12345jamesstamps
I'm looking into this policy, as I want to list a vintage item that's made in Russia.
There are tons of listings with "Russia" in the title, posted in many different categories.
The actual Embargoed Goods Policy reads:
I looked up what that means, and did not read it to include stamps. Maybe I'm wrong? These policies should be enforced correctly and fairly.
12345jamesstamps
OP1 year agoI guess we can use Soviet Union and USSR where artificial intelligence tends to not understand that they were a part of the country.
rockyroadtradingpost
·1 year ago@12345jamesstamps @1786davycrockett
I just had a 50+ year old textile taken down based on this embargoed goods policy on the same day I listed it.
Funny thing is, I created the listing from a "Sell Similar" off an almost identical item that sold last month, and there are many others currently listed, which have been up for months.
I wouldn't think competitors reported my listing, as mine is a much smaller size and is no competition for theirs, but you never know.
It's a beautiful item, so I'll just keep it as a piece of history.
12345jamesstamps
OP1 year agoThis is just a followed-up.
I hope I don't step on anyone's toes.
A lot of buyers as well as sellers use the "report this item" of a listing hoping to remove listings.
It appears to be artificial intelligence and not really anyone reading anything you post.
When you "report this item" the "description or reason why" has to be almost written word for word why listing should be removed...from the reason it should be removed under eBay rules...not your personal views.
Example: "items from Russia subject to International Sanctions"...and "Russia is an embargo country".
That is what eBay states...and what was put in the reason the listing to be taken off.
Apparently I blocked someone and didn't know we can't list Russia anything.
I had 40 listings but only 4 got removed.
And if you clink on "Russia stamps" or anything "Russia"...there are thousands of listings.
It's someone using the "report this item" and it is generated by Artificial Intelligence.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoI like how all the replies are pointing out how ridiculous it is to make this such a wide spread embargo when it's only Russia in it's current government that is subject to the embargo.
Hopefully Devon comes back and replies to a couple of the posts where we asked for clarification. I did talk to an eBay CSR, but they might not have understood that I was asking about all Russian governments, and coins and stamps. They might have thought I only meant Soviet Union or some other issue that stems from poor communication when we ask a CSR to clarify policy.
One could try on FB, but I haven't been on there since they moved it. But I've noticed on FB that when it's policy questions that are not account specific, AI regurgitates it's policy back at you in the same form as posted on their help pages. If I wanted to read the help pages, I'd do that, I'm messaging for clarification on the help pages.
C.
dbfolks166mt
·1 year agoI just sold an item from the USSR but it was from WWII so it seems like it is a hit an miss with what is allowed. The real irony in this is that the sanctions are supposed to apply to exports to the USSR also. Thanks to some creativity by a few countries Russian buyers are getting around the sanctions and purchasing items from just about every country that is supposed to be supporting the sanctions. The State Department reports that while the sanctions initially impacted the Russian economy that is no longer the case.
worldcoinauctions
·1 year agoI've sold a number of USSR items, different country that no longer exists 🙂
Can't sell Cuba anything.
Once had an experience where I was not permitted to list a coin from Algeria because I put the name of the ruler at the time in the title and it sounded like it was from Iran, took his name out and no problem....
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoI had a similar problem with a couple of Oman banknotes (but no ruler, the picture of the ruler made it look like an Iran note, even though it said OMAN).
The OP had Soviet and pre-soviet stamps removed by AI. I took mine down today, don't want to take any chances. AI isn't always that smart, and then what happens is you're arguing with a CSR who believes the AI is right.
C.
buyselljack2016
·1 year agoDon't know much about AI, but from what I do know it seems that AI is pretty smart. It's those that control AI and tell it how to think that are not that smart.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoI disagree. AI is not very smart. It is quite stupid and remains stupid if the information used to train the AI tool is lacking in intelligence or flawed or biased.
It does not differ from programmers who are unable to code a simple test because they do not know the parameters for what must be tested or what the criteria are to pass or fail the test.
Human or artificial intelligence, in the absence of training and intellect, fail.
rioco_56
·1 year agoSame exact thing happened to me with Algerian and Albanian stamps. I used the rulers names and apparently the algorithm thought they were Iranian. Removed the names and they were accepted. I wished they fixed that since some collectors look out for specific rulers etc. Oh well.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoThe US Government decides which countries and which goods are subject to embargos.
Ebay implements bots after the embargo is announced and public knowledge. Sellers should be aware of these actions since the limited number of real new organizations do make reference to them. But unfortunately, there are fewer real news organizations and many people do not get news from them.
The first many come to know of an embargo is when Ebay takes down their listings. I do not think there is anything to blame Ebay for. They are just following what the law requires.
Sellers who wait for Ebay to take action are breaking the law, without knowing it. They could have had problems before the Ebay action if the government was aggressive in enforcing the embargo.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoEmbargo, noun: an official ban on trade or other commercial activity with a particular country.
If a seller is in the US and has items from Russia that were obtained at a time when trade was allowed (like say these stamps are Soviet, or pre-Soviet, or simply before the Ukraine war), how are they violating an embargo to ship it to another location in the US?
By definition embargo is a ban on trade with a country. If the US sellers are "trading" with other US buyers, I don't see how they're breaking the law. The embargo is a ban on trade, ie imports. So I get this doesn't absolve me since my Russian stamps are actually in Canada, so if Russian items (including stamps) are embargoed, technically I wouldn't be allowed to sell them. But the OP is in the US, so he's not breaking any trade laws by shipping them to another US seller.
C.
wilsonharborsales
·1 year agoMany Countries that were in the Soviet Union prior to 1990 including Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and East Germany. Since those were all part of Russia, are pre-1990 items from there embargoed as well?
12345jamesstamps
OP1 year agoI kinda feel I am getting picked on personally by eBay since there are so many listings from USA sellers with the title Russia and the category Russia...and 4 of my listings were taken down by eBay today.
I took ALL Russia listings down because I don't understand the specific policy when other sellers...thousands are selling Russia items.
devon@eBay
kyle@eBay
elizabeth@eBay
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoI kinda wanted to see what got taken down (specifically those four) to see if there's words you used in your description that the bot didn't like. I told my offline eBay contact friend about the situation and all he said was to wait and see what the blues reply to this thread (we've both tagged them for clarification).
Usually when something's embargoed (for coins and stamps) like Cuba and Iran, there's not even a category to put them in. In the stamp forum people have discussed how to skirt the embargo and confuse the bots, but it seems risky if someone wants to report your listing. My software (SixBit) won't post anything for me if I mention the word "Persia" in the listing. I've gotten error messages when trying to post that I'm using terms that are "not allowed" or "words that violate policy".
I had fantasy coins and mentioned in my description the coins aren't legal tender (because they are fantasy coins, there's a category for that), and the software blocked me telling me I was using words that violated policy. (I'm guessing that's what I said that it didn't like). I also tried to post a fantasy coin with a condition of circulated because it had been handled, but the software wouldn't let me describe a fantasy coin as circulated or not, because they aren't meant to circulate at all.
So I do feel SixBit is doing it's part to warn me when I might say something that would violate policy (or something the bots don't like).
C.
12345jamesstamps
OP1 year agoJust the title and category says 'Russia'.
No words 'Russia' on the stamps...their all in Russian language.
A set of money stamps were taken off and 2 stamps from 1917 in these 4 lots.
So strange.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoThey need to get rid of the Russia category altogether if we're not allowed to sell coins and stamps from there. It's misleading to give us a category to put stuff in, then slap us with a violation for listing it.
@devon@ebay
devon@ebay
Hey @12345jamesstamps! It sounds like the items listed may have been from Russia, which is considered Embargoed Goods. Embargoed Goods are not permitted to be listed on site due to various restrictions placed by the US government for embargoed goods.
12345jamesstamps
OP1 year agoHello,
So why are there thousands of listings with the title 'Russia'..and the category 'Russia' stamps for sale?
And why only 4 listings were taken down and not more with the words 'Russia' that I was selling?
I ended all my listings with the word 'Russia' to be safe.
Could this be an artificial intelligence thing?
sin-n-dex
·1 year ago@devon@ebay
The wording in the list of embargoed countries states that only specific things from Russia are banned, without telling us what those things are. When I research Russia embargo, they talk about things like oil and natural gas, not coins and stamps.
I spoke to an eBay CSR on the phone yesterday who explicitly told me coins and stamps are not covered by the embargo. Now you posted they are embargoed. So which is it? Us sellers can't guess at the rules, it needs to be clear in the policy or we accrue suspensions for something that isn't made clear from the start.
C.
1786davycrockett
·1 year ago@devon@ebay
"It sounds like the items listed may have been from Russia, which is considered Embargoed Goods. Embargoed Goods are not permitted to be listed on site due to various restrictions placed by the US government for embargoed goods."
What @12345jamesstamps is discussing is pre-1991 stamps and coins from either the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and Imperial Russia, plus several stamps that were created during the Russian Civil War between 1917 and 1922. NONE of these stamps (or coins) have ANYTHING to do with the current, post-1991 Russian Federation, and should NOT be subject to embargo, as they are of an historic significance.
In short -- these are items from countries and governments which no longer exist.
1786davycrockett
·1 year ago@devon@ebay
@12345jamesstamps
The current Russian Federation government receives NO compensation for stamps and coins produced before 1991.
Several of these items were manufactured over 100 years ago -- long before there was a Russian Federation -- and the Soviet-era items are in direct philosophical conflict with the aims of the post-1991 Russian Federation -- so including those items in the "embargo" definitely makes no sense.
Doesn't anybody at eBay HQ know ANYTHING about Russian history?!?
sin-n-dex
·1 year ago@devon@ebay
@kyle@ebay
@elizabeth@ebay
Can you please confirm that coins, stamps (and postcards while I'm asking) are not part of the Russia goods embargo and @12345jamesstamps Russia listings were removed in error by AI?
If there is an embargo including coins & stamps, can you confirm if that only applies to the current government post 1991, or does it include USSR/Soviet Union and Russia Empire which are different countries/governments before the current Putin Russia government was formed?
C.
12345jamesstamps
OP1 year agoI am so confused still.
Why are so many stamps and things with Russia in the 'category' and in the 'title' and yet they are listed on eBay...but I got 4 delisted? And by who? Other sellers?
Inquiring minds want to know...well, actually just mine.
Does it have to do with Artificial Intelligence or is it because these big sellers get a 'pass card'?
wastingtime101
·1 year agoStinks to get hit with that. When it comes to embargoed goods, that's the kind of thing eBay isn't going to announce, and instead they expect sellers to follow the news. Sanctions on Russia became more strict after they invaded Ukraine in Feb 2022.
See the full list of embargoed goods here:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/embargoed-goods-policy?id=4323
I thought there were exceptions for collectible stamps and coins, but I can't find that info at the moment.
12345jamesstamps
OP1 year agoFunny though....thousands and thousands are listed for sale by USA sellers...
It's 'open season' for reporting all these sellers of their items for sale?
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoI suspect you got hit with AI making bad decisions. If you're able to share the listings that were taken down (if that's even possible now), I'd be curious to take a look and see what AI didn't like about them.
I have offline friends that will also be happy to review this for me a bit later... my auctions start ending in 15 minutes and we have a standing phone call during auctions to talk about eBay matters.
C.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoCoins and stamps from Russia are excepted items and allowed to be sold. But who knows what happens with AI. They removed an Oman listing (two of them actually) telling me that I can't sell stuff from Iran. I was told it looks like Iranian money and Oman is similar to Iran, therefore I can't sell it here. I went on FB for Business (that's what it was then) and fought the violation and they removed it. But now I say Muscat & Oman if I list anything from there, and I don't list paper money because the guy on their note looks too much like the Sha of Iran.
C.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoDo you have a link to that policy exception @sin-n-dex ?
This policy references Nazi-related stamps and currency, but I can't find one about exceptions to embargoed goods.
Past discussions, including this one from 3 yrs ago, talk about pre-embargoed stamps from Cuba being allowed, however today's policy page specifically says:
Sellers can't list embargoed goods or pre-embargoed goods from these countries or regions
I tried pulling up the policy on archive.org to view changes, but it's just loading blank pages. This has been happening a lot when I look up eBay policy pages on the archive.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoI don't have a link because I called to speak to customer service after reading the thread (since I have coins and stamps as well). They told me by phone that it's specific embargoed goods from Russia, and coins and stamps aren't specifically embargoed.
However on the embargo list Cuba (as an example) is listed in it's entirety, all goods, as per how the policy is written. So I didn't think there was any exception for stamps from Cuba.
The embargo policy does say for Russia it's specific items, but they don't tell what the specific items are. So I tagged a blues for clarification.
C.
rioco_56
·1 year agoAt this point it's just a gripe we have to get used to. I get it. It doesn't take into account history, It's their business that we pay to use, and its easier to use an all encompassing term so they don't have to deal with it. I just hate getting penalized whenever I see items unlisted with a RED mark all over the place that says they removed my items because its BANNNED and doesn't follow the rules.
As far as I've seen the only way that I've seen folks get away with selling historic items regularly is to use more Historically relevant terminology. I could be wrong though