eBay UK Goes Permanently Fee Free For Private Clothing Sellers April 8
In yet another step in eBay's recent strategy shift back to consumer-seller roots, starting April 8, private (non-business) sellers in the UK will no longer pay final value or regulatory fees on clothing sales.
How does free selling for pre-owned clothes work?
Selling pre-owned clothes on ebay.co.uk is now free for UK based private sellers, which means you’ll no longer have to pay transaction fees (final value fee and regulatory operating fee) when these items sell.
For clothes listings, private sellers will only incur fees for any of the following:
Optional listing upgrades
Sending items internationally
Using Promoted Listings to place advertisements
https://pages.ebay.co.uk/fashion-selling/
Interestingly, they are not limiting this by condition. Both new with tags or used condition qualify, as eBay defines pre-owned clothes as "items you no longer want or need in a variety of conditions, for example an outfit that no longer fits, an unwanted gift, or vintage fashion that needs a new home. These items can be new or used."
eBay is clearly responding to recent news from Mercair and Depop, subtly pointing out there are no selling or buying fees and no need to request a withdrawal that may incur additional fees.
But it seems to be more than just a reactionary move as I've been tracking eBay's increased C2C focus and initiatives since February and it appears to be a key component of Jamie's plans to try to meet the forecasts they've given to Wall Street to see a return to GMV growth by Q3 or Q4 this year.
I won't be surprised if they don't bring this to Australia as well, since they've also stepped up pre-loved fashion efforts there, and we may even see something similar in the US by the end of the year.
bennotbill
·2 years agoAlso it could be eBay UK's answer to sellers getting a bit thin on the ground. It almost seems every week that some new app selling site opens. Often fee free.
Even Etsy UK is currently funding a £5 off end of April sale. As they said "it was implementing the new marketing strategy because it was experiencing an increasingly competitive retail environment". Though they told sellers "it was running the current UK promotion because it wanted to help support their businesses". Of course they do 😀.
Personally I think the days of sellers being easily replaced are past.
bennotbill
·2 years agoIt won't be a complete bust for eBay. With the high level of online clothing returns I expect eBay will still make a nice profit from postage labels.
eBay do some strange advertising. On one channel that mainly has repeats, there's a more than a decade old motoring program series shown that come comes up sponsored by eBay. Which shows a guy opening his eBay parcel that contains a locking petrol cap that he fits to his vintage sports car .............. on to opening credits.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoIs this a gift to sellers or a recognition that selling used clothing which is other than high priced designer clothing is not any longer a source of profit? And selling high end designer clothing requires authentication which is unlikely to be free.
I have no horse in this race, but might pleasant to stop reading posts on why people are not seeing orders for their clothing.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@tobaccocardyahoo I don't think it's a gift to sellers. I think it is recognition that the used clothing market had grown enormously, and the potential profit overall is enormous...and much of this growth has been fueled by the younger generation, which is generally speaking, far more likely to be using these newer compeitiors than to be using ebay. In short, ebay , which not too many years ago, was in the perfect position to be the real leader in this trend if they had foreseen it and appreciated their huge used clothing seller base, well, ebay is now in a position where they are still a major player in the market, but they are likely losing ground rapidly.
Yes, many clothing sellers here acknowledge that it is a crowded market, but there is definitely money to be made for sellers who figure out exactly what to sell (and can source it) The problem is not simply that the market is crowded, it is that there are many, many sellers who do not understand it well enough to profit from it.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoThe used clothing market is way too large for demand and much of it is priced too high.
Not only are Temu and Shain priced below used clothing, but the brand name manufacturer's websites have clearance new clothing priced below Ebay used prices of the same brand,
And the People's Republic of China has increased its output of cheap items to help revive their struggling economy.
Ebay could easily ignore the problem, keep the fees intact and let the clothing sellers in the UK struggle against impossible odds.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@tobaccocardyahoo
My point is, there are sellers---many of them, actually---who are not overpricing their items, who are not selling clothing for which there is really no particular demand, and who ARE sourcing at affordable prices and who KNOW what sells and what doesn't.
It's like anything. CDs? Most aren't worth much, and can be hard to sell even if lotted together at a low price. But I sold one recently for about 50 bucks that I paid fifty cents for...it only lasted a day or two on ebay...because, yes, SOME cds DO have demand.
One problem with clothing in general is: it is readily available to most resellers and so it is often where newbies get their start....so you have a LOT of inexperienced sellers brining items to market that have little or no demand and that are indeed often overpriced. Some of them crash and burn, but others eventually learn the ins and outs of the market and prosper.
I'm guessing the Pereto Principle applies: probably about 20% of clothing sellers are generating about 80% of the clothing GMV, not just because they are larger sellers but because they KNOW the market.
Is the market overcrowded with clothing sellers who struggling. Yes. But that doesn't mean there isn't money to be made.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoPareto Principle also applies almost everything else on Ebay
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years ago@tobaccocardyahoo I pretty much said the same thing as this post, in a different answer & I do believe this IS the answer. I've never once seen eBay mentioned in the fashion subs on Reddit, everyone only talks about Posh, Depop, etc. The young people NEVER think of eBay for clothing & ebay hasn't done anything to help them do so. But to comment on your post, as a longtime clothing seller, there is still a lot of profit. For me, it's just the buyers that are down. I still make great profit, when items sell. Of course, less buyers affect profit, but profit per item is actually up.
bennotbill
·2 years agoThere's no Mercari in the UK as that closed a while back. Plenty of small competing sites with various fee structures.
There was a couple of other UK TV ads which caught my eye. Both were from long established and respected high street names. One was for buying/selling/authenticating/repairing watches. And the other was for trainers, or sneakers as you Americans say.
eBay is facing tough competition even on its flagship items.
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@bennotbill
Thank you for that insight from someone who is actually there.
valueaddedresource
OP2 years ago@bennotbill there may not be Mercari in the UK but there is Depop - and Depop also just recently got rid of their 10% selling fee and instituted an "up to" 5% buyer fee instead specially only in the UK market.
So yes, one way or another, that tagline was designed to differentiate eBay from competitors who are also advertising no fee selling but have shifted some or all of the fee burden to buyers instead.
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@valueaddedresource
So if the 5% Buyer's fee and NO Selling fees hit here Sellers could easily offer 5% discounts with a note in their Descriptions that it is to offset the new Buyer's fee ...
bennotbill
·2 years agoJust seen an eBay ad on the UK TV about this. The ad's main tagline was interesting as it was like no fees/charges for buyers and sellers.
I wonder why they felt the need to say no fees for buyers. Would that be no buyer fees yet? Will buyer fees appear in select categories? Who knows.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@bennotbill Most likely to distinguish themselves from Mercari, a competing site which just recently announced no seller fees....but simultaneously added buyer fees.
bennotbill
·2 years agoDespite what I said - with eBay UK basically just a part of .com and their generally blinkered view, you're probably right.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@bennotbill Yes, I'd say that ebay is probably distinguishing itself from Mercari (and as @valueaddedresource said, etys's Depop as well), and that's true whether Mercari is currently active in the UK or not. Also, simply advertising that puts some pressure on ebay's other competitors: if they are considering going to free seller fees for their sellers, are they prepared to---and are they capable of ---dropping the fees altogether, or will they end up adding fees on buyers? In other words, it may also be pro-active: a shot across the bow of other competing sites.
Which is NOT to say that, ebay will NEVER add buyer fees. I'm certain ebay is watching the pricing experiments of other sites carefully. Keep in mind ebay went to no seller fees on trainers/sneakers for a period of time, in order to regain market share...and once ebay was confident that they had regained strength in that market, they were quick to revive seller fees.
On other threads, I have pointed out that economists have been surprised by the willingness of the American consumer (Mercari dropped the seller fee/added the buyer fee in the US only) to continue spending even while loudly complaining about inflation (which I believe is less here than in most developed countries). I think Mercari may be relying on that same willingness to pay buyer fees. In other words, Mercari figures buyers will grumble, but if they really want something, they'll buy it. (even if it means paying a buyer fee)
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years ago@valueaddedresource Oh, I wondered when that was starting. I'll check it out when I have some time. unforunately, the travels were not for fun & my life is still not my own right now, so very little time. But thanks for making me aware!
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years ago@valueaddedresource Thank you for tagging me & sorry for the delay in response, I have been traveling for a couple of weeks & pretty much offline. I had no idea about this & will be watching closely. Selfishly, I'd like to see it implemented, but I guess that depends on how "private" is defined. I haven't read everything in detail, as I've only been back 2 days.
I will say that I suspect partly this is to stop the bleeding to Posh & other sites. I contribute a bit to Reddit fashion subs & NEVER, EVER is eBay mentioned on there as a place to buy or sell. They talk about PM & Mercari & occasionally others, but no one ever mentions eBay. It's honestly as though eBay doesn't exist for clothing, if you're under 40.
valueaddedresource
OP2 years ago@simply-the-best-for-you you're welcome and no worries on the delay, hope you enjoyed your travels!
When you get caught up, you might also be interested in something new I stumbled on today...eBay Explore AI powered discovery/curation feature just launched, starting with clothing and accessories categories.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/New-eBay-Explore-AI-Powered-Recommendation-Feed/m-p/34431435/highlight/true#M2390878
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoI personally don't see the little sellers they want to attract with the fee free scheme will use promoted listings or even have a concept of them - just not something they expect. Also, the clothing market on eBay UK isn't as crowded as on the US market. I think those little personal sellers (and the largest faux personal sellers) will simply not have to bother with fees any longer, whether they use PL or not.
onefootflipper
·2 years agoFor anyone serious about ebay something like this is a bad change.
Why not flood an already flooded market with more listings from people who aren't selling for profit AND give them a financial edge against the for profit sellers, which would be basically everyone reading this forum.
Why would any of you want that?
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@onefootflipper
Good question ... for myself I would prefer an across the board drop-in fees for ALL Sellers by some %. Something like that might jump start sales again for many Sellers.
Your point about saturated categories makes perfectly good business sense ...
yuzuha
·2 years agoAgreed. eBay needs to bring back listing fees, not get rid of them. The site is already clogged with too much junk that will never sell, sellers who list their items for ridiculous prices that no one will ever pay, and yard sale sellers who list their stuff for giveaway prices where they're basically losing money on every sale and are hurting all of the sellers who are actually trying to make a profit.
dhbookds
·2 years agoDon't know if this will work or not..........
Went to the UK site, signed in as delivery to the UK
chose UK location only
Searched for Woman's clothing..........shows 860,000 listings
Chose used Woman's clothing from condition dropdown menu......430,000 listings
Searched for men's clothing...........shows 490,000 listings
Chose used mens from condition dropdown menu.........shows 190,000
Maybe we can see how successful the increase in listings might be.......
Obviously, no separation of Business versus private........ but might be interesting......
valueaddedresource
OP2 years ago@dhbookds while eBay says this is for "pre-owned" clothing, they also conveniently say to them that means anything you own whether used or new with tags so....condition does not matter, anything listed by private sellers in clothing categories (excluding accessories, hats, footwear, watches, bags and jewellery) will qualify for no selling fees.
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@valueaddedresource
Thanks for posting that ...
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoAs one of those clothing sellers, I actually wish they would impose a listing fee and would gladly pay one to thin out the category a little on the US site - right now it's a clogged mess. But as mentioned above, the UK has a demarcation between personal and professional seller so it might be a worthwhile experiment. If they're looking to make up the shortfall in various promotional fees, etc., they may not find that happening, though.
I'm very interested to see what happens (along with Mercari's change). I actually may be selling from the UK soon.
valueaddedresource
OP2 years ago@chapeau-noir I had a similar thought about the "clogged mess."
If clothing is already a very saturated category, this will likely make it even more so if more consumer sellers flood the category with tons of stuff from their closets.
While those sellers may or may not opt to pay promotional fees, I have a feeling that existing business sellers may find their ad spend creeping up just to try to retain visibility in an even more crowded market.
simba6
·2 years agoThey have to do something given how well it sells.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoWhat does that mean?
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@valueaddedresource Thanks for the update! Not really unexpected, I suspect they've been planning this for a while, so I'd guess not just a hasty reaction to competitors recent fee-free initiatives.
Of course, the UK , by law, has a difference between professional sellers and private sellers, and so drawing the line is easier there than here.
It will certainly be interesting to see how this works out. I'm glad they did this before the Q1 report, because this suggests they will likely be talking about the new (or "evolved" strategy) , which might give us more insights into just where they are headed with the c to c emphasis.
valueaddedresource
OP2 years ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques you would think so but maybe not? Honestly I don't really know much about how the laws there on this work but from what I gather from reading the UK boards there are apparently still a lot of issues with people who should be classified as businesses selling as private.
I'm sure eBay will have to crack down eventually as the potential consequences of not doing so get more serious, but for now at least it seems legitimate business sellers in that category are concerned that eBay just handed their non-rule following competitors a big gift.
https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Business-Seller-Board/No-Fees-for-selling-Clothing/m-p/7595402#M310909
bennotbill
·2 years agoThose sort of posts are bound to step up a few notches. As you say there's always been a problem with "private" sellers listing thousands of often new items. Taking advantage of the common offer of 80% off FVF's meant only for private sellers.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@valueaddedresource As with most things that require seller compliance, there will always be sellers who feel the rules don't apply to themselves. Enforcement will be imperfect, but I imagine ebay will give it a try. The other thing I foresee is a lot of non clothing items in clothing categories. Time will tell how big a problem this stuff will be.
I suspect one of the reasons for this change is that ebay probably has internal data proving what we small sellers have said for years...many small sellers are also buyers, and ebay probably has some data that convinces them that adding new sellers will be an effective way to add new buyers. So it isn't just about adding more clothing to an already crowded category, it's about adding more people spending on clothing (and other stuff).
I like @dhbookds idea of establishing the baseline numbers today, and using that to see what kind of growth occurs. Of course, it will be imperfect, because IF sales actually increase at a faster pace, sales could hide some of the growth. But we can get a nice rough idea anyway I think.
As noted, I think ebay is also anticipating that growth in an already crowded category will give more sellers incentive to use PL to stand out...so they expect to see PL fees grow.
It will certainly be interesting to keep an eye on this, as something similar could eventually come here.
I do note they emphasize the use of AI for the listings, and God knows what that will do....so far, I haven't been impressed with ebay's AI for descriptions. It will be interesting to see what the Brits think of it...
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques
I think you and @dhbookds have hit some key points ... I think (IMHO) one of the real pushes is for Sellers to feel like they need to use PLS to move their items. Listings can and are manipulated for visibility (or lack there of) in an attempt to have Sellers "think" they need to promote to sell. And I think smaller sellers wind up losing the most with this. I know I have. After many years of using PLS and then watching it lose its effectiveness (unless you use eBay's inflated "Suggested rates") from early 2022 for 2 years I stopped using it in 4th quarter last year ... I am waiting to see how long it takes sales in general AND BIN sales in specific to rebound to pre-2022 levels. Counting 4th quarter last year I am in month 7 of waiting. 2023 was over 10K behind in sales dollars and this year has started with about the same lost sales %. I have switched more items to auction format and March saw the following numbers (based on over 100 sales):
78.3% Auction sales
8.3% BIN sales
13.3% Sales form Offers I sent (NOT the regular Best offer feature, I DON'T use that)
Sell through rate tanked forcing inventory to be moved elsewhere. Sadly, I think this may be a trend for many smaller Sellers. While I love Selling on eBay as my first choice the operative word is "selling" ...
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln I'd love to see ebay's projections for this, because ebay is giving up a revenue stream (the FVFs) , and when they do that, they generally only do so if they feel they can , at the very least, replace that revenue stream. That means they are expecting to see a certain increase in PL revenue, and a certain increase in overall purchasing , primarily from new buyers and from existing sellers who feel they can afford to buy more now that they aren't paying FVFs. Will those numbers be enough to replace (or even exceed) the existing FVF revenue? I'm guessing ebay thinks so.
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques
I don't know what prices used clothing brings for everyday seasonal stuff but that is most of what eBay is potentially giving up. As it relates to my experience with PLS and suppressed listings on BIN items, well, my BIN items are typically NOT the high dollar items that I have sold over the years. The other part of the equation is eBay has OVER 1.7 BILLION listings worldwide. So looking at the math and say less than a million listings and forfeiting FVFs on them is not a big deal ... I believe we are talking about less than 1% of the total listings on the site. It is really a drop in the bucket.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln I believe ebay's expenses have been increasing (one reason they slashed employee numbers) and so , while I agree this will represent a relatively small part of ebay's overall gross income, my point is: ebay does not give up ANY existing revenue stream without something to replace it. In this case, that replacement could be based on a projection that this change will increase ad revenue and actual sales (including clothing sellers buying non clothing items). Or...the other shoe will eventually drop, and ebay will increase FVFs for some other categories, or make some otehr change. But one way or another, they will definitely try to replace or even increase the revenue they will lose due to this change. The one thing we can be pretty sure of is: unlike mercari, they won't try to replace it with buyer fees.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoWhy is it they test the bad stuff out on the US but the good stuff the US is always the last to get it (IF they ever do).
valueaddedresource
OP2 years ago@toomuchstuffagain35 definitely understand the feeling.
However, as frustrating as it might be, I think it's smart (from a business perspective) for eBay to limit this by categories, private vs business and even countries like this because it limits their exposure and allows them to do it without having to pass the fee burden on to buyers like Mercari and Depop are doing.
I'm hopeful we may see some new initiatives geared toward C2C and/or small business sellers in the US this year too, but realistically I expect if so, they will also be similarly limited.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoProbably true lol
I don't even have a dog in this particular race as I wouldn't touch selling clothing & such on here with a 10 foot pole.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoUgh - wrong post - sorry.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoHard to see why implementing such a policy in the US would be considered "good stuff".
I no longer sell here and never did sell clothing, but, to my uneducated eyes, doesn't this seem like flooding an already over-saturated market?
valueaddedresource
OP2 years ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques @chapeau-noir @simply-the-best-for-you - thought you might find this interesting.