eBay team, some help with this unusual return/refund issue please?
kyle@ebay
Some of us have encountered (in other threads) an issue that we can't find any info about in eBay policy pages. Here's my recent example:
Friday I refunded a buyer for their INAD return. I did not deduct any percent of their item price but I did leave the original shipping option at its' default setting of 'off' (as in, don't refund it). Ordinarily that option does not even appear for INAD refunds; original shipping is automatically included in the expected refund. But it seems to be an option that occurs when the seller had reported the buyer for something prior to this point. -In my case I had reported the buyer when they requested a partial refund, as per eBay abusive buyer policy.
This is not my screenshot, but just to show how it looks.
After completing this refund, I observed that eBay did not credit back my seller fees, even though I did not withhold any portion of the item price. It seems to be only because I did not slide the original shipping option over to 'on'. In other words, I INADVERTENTLY withheld the $7.25 in original shipping at the cost of losing my $33 in fee credit.
The policy pages don't make this unique situation clear at all. -Is reporting the buyer indeed what causes the original shipping an optional part of the refund? If the default is to NOT refund that, why does leaving it that way forfeit the fee credits? Why are neither of these stated in policy?
@wastingtime101
robbie31415
·2 years agoFor me it makes no difference as it can't hurt me because I'm a free shipping seller and the original shipping with always show up as $0.00.
However, I feel there should be some more warnings.
A simple warning when what you are deducting is less than say 15% of the order total.
Or does eBay try and be silent about this because then sellers might inflate what they are trying to deduct.
But basically when you do deductions you want it above 15% or you will end up paying more.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoI mean they COULD do like when you issue a voluntary partial refund without return, and just give you back fee credits in proportion to how much you refunded. -Crazy idea, I know.
robbie31415
·2 years agoFor your situation specifically,
I will be honest and say regardless of the fees you should NOT have withheld the original shipping.
Your withholding did not comply with eBay's policies to withhold and you got punished for it.
It's industry standard to refund buyers in whole when they file INAD regardless if it's correct or not.
eBay system is probably designed to get people NOT to use the seller protection, so the transaction will end up being processed as to industry standard.
I simply only deduct when there is a significant difference (ie returned something completely different) for higher value items.
However, this doesn't mean I don't believe there needs to be more clarity in regards to these penalties. eBay's policies should be clear, and hanging everything on a word like 'fully' without clarifying in my opinion is inappropriate.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoSame here. Unless the damage, alteration, etc is significant I usually refund in full. But I will block the buyer for damaging the product.
Situations where I've withheld are typically along the lines of:
Buyer filed claim on 4 items, returned only 1 item.
Buyer completely broke item and it's now trash.
Buyer returned something different.
etc.
robbie31415
·2 years agoI get quite of few issues with my drone sales.
Someone crashed it, returned it completely destroyed, Easy 50% deduction.
Another drone, someone returned a coffee cup. Easy 50% deduction.
Pretty much the only time I do deductions is when it's going to be a 50%.
IDK if this puts me on eBay's radar, but I'd hope they'd understand that the reason It's either no deduction or full 50% deduction is because I only issue it when it's significant, otherwise I just eat it, and sell open box or used, determined by the condition.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoBTW I said "alleged" because a seller could falsely report a buyer and there are consequences for that stated in policy. But in my case I made the report directly from the buyer's email to me (right on that screen), so I would think it could be instantly verifiable as abuse, as described by eBay. The buyer didn't just hint or anything; she requested a specific dollar amount.
robbie31415
·2 years ago@kyle@ebay (Yeah, we pinging you, SORRY for the ping spam.)
I am writing to seek clarification regarding your policies on fee credits for partial refunds, as I believe there are certain areas that are not clearly communicated to sellers. My primary concern revolves around eBay’s fee credits policy, and I would like to address a specific situation to illustrate the ambiguity.
According to eBay’s policy:
"When the buyer is issued a partial refund, your eligible fee credits will be proportional to the amount that the buyer is refunded. For example, if the buyer receives a 20% refund of the total amount of the sale, then you'll be credited 20% of the eligible fees that you were charged. See the detailed examples below."
Furthermore, there are exceptions where fee credits are not issued, outlined as follows:
"Refunds that don't qualify for seller fee credits We don't issue fee credits in any of the following situations:
You refunded the buyer outside of eBay (using PayPal to send money, for instance).
eBay stepped in to help with a return or item not received request, and the case was closed with a full or partial refund to the buyer.
You deduct a portion from the buyer's refund because they returned the item used or damaged (only applies to eligible sellers)."
In gurlcat's case, exceptions 1 and 2 do not apply as the refund was issued within eBay and no case was involved. The only remaining exception concerns deductions from the refund due to the item being used or damaged.
However, the deduction in question pertains to the original shipping costs. Given that eBay provides sellers the option to withhold original shipping costs, it is reasonable to assume that this practice is deemed acceptable by eBay under certain conditions.
The issue arises from the fact that the policy does not explicitly state that withholding original shipping costs will result in the forfeiture of fee credits. It appears that eBay's system treats the withholding of original shipping as part of the "altered condition" exception, thereby denying the fee credits.
I am not opposed to eBay’s decision to withhold fee credits in such situations. However, I believe it is essential for this policy to be clearly communicated to sellers. The current lack of clarity can lead to misunderstandings and unintended consequences for sellers who are acting in good faith.
I kindly request that this policy be reviewed and that clearer guidelines be provided to sellers regarding the impact of withholding original shipping costs on fee credits.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoThanks for starting a new thread on this topic gurlcat. I know you, @robbie31415, and myself are all interested in hearing from eBay with some current policy info. @fern*wood was one of the sellers affected by loss of fees so I'm tagging her in case she has interest.
Here's some history @kyle@ebay :
eBay launched seller protections for TRS towards the end of 2019. Before that it was not possible to withhold original (separate) ship cost on a SNAD. After TRS seller protections went into effect, Trinton (community team before your time) in early 2020 provided info on the new ability to withhold orig shipping on buyer abusive SNADs.
It is clear orig shipping is to be treated 100% separate from the up-to-50% partial refund on abusive buyer returns when items come back altered/used/damaged/etc. The problem is the policy pages make no mention of orig shipping. Sellers do not realize that the setting defaulted to not refund buyers that orig shipping means sellers fees are forfeit because eBay considers that a "partial refund" even though Trinton made it clear orig shipping is separate from the item cost partial refund.
Based on my own experience, and that of other sellers, we know the option to withhold orig shipping on a SNAD appears when we report abusive buyer behavior.
Why does eBay's system default to not refund orig shipping when that means seller fees are forfeit? Over the years I've seen many sellers caught unaware by this.
While we're on the topic, it's backwards that eBay does not refund FVF when we sellers follow eBay's seller protection guidelines and issue a partial refund when an item is returned used/damaged/etc. It frequently defeats the purpose of having these protections and the ability to withhold part of the refund when fees are not credited. eBay must know they are doing a disservice to sellers. When the buyer is abusive and the seller follows eBay's guidelines for withholding, our FVF should be credited.
I'm sure when it comes to FVF on partials the most you'll be able to do is pass on our feedback. But when it comes to orig shipping there are real questions and holes in the policy pages and the default settings on the return. We'd also like to know if the information provided by Trinton in 2020 is in line with current policy.
Sorry for the length. Thanks in advance for taking the time to digest all of this info and doing what you can to advocate for sellers on this topic. I appreciate any efforts you can put in to help us with this.